o{]:¬)

Fr. Z is Moderator of the Catholic Online Forum and the ASK FATHER Question Box. The WDTPRS columns appear weekly in The Wanderer. Fr. Z lives in Rome, though he is often in the USA. He is available for retreats and conferences. E-mail
LOGIN


   Fr. Z on WDTPRS

↑ Grab this Headline Animator


Recent Posts
  • LA STAMPA: Hans KÜNG on Pres. Bush and Pope Benedict XVI
  • Mundelein Liturgical Institute (Chicago): required course on TLM
  • ALERT
  • UK: Petition to bishops for the TLM
  • An interesting Curial shift coming up
  • Loomes Bookseller: sold!
  • A new journal
  • QUAERITUR: advice for a wymynpryst wannabe

  • Recent Comments:

    • QC: The wailing and gnashing of teeth of one left alone in the darkness…
    • Calleva: Definitely a candidate for the sour grapes picture. As Warren says, this has all the hallmarks of a cry for...
    • Not this time...: Fr. Kung reminds of a certain type of academic: someone who is absolutely certain of his own...
    • I am not Spartacus: (Sorry. I dodnd’t have the original link anymore) Following is the translated text of an...
    • Purgatorian Guild: I agree with Deusdonat: Stuff and nonsense! People like Kung are dinosaurs, still stuck in the...

  • Visit the new WDTPRS Store!
    Buy WDTPRS stuff!

    Click below and vote !My site was nominated for Best Religion Blog!


    Calendar

    April 2006
    S M T W T F S
    « Mar   May »
     1
    2345678
    9101112131415
    16171819202122
    23242526272829
    30  

    The Pilgrimage

    Subscribe to ...
    The Wanderer

    Subscribe to ... The Catholic Herald - UK






    This blog is hosted by

    Joyent


    Thanks for the support!


























    WINNER of...

    The 2007 Weblog Awards

















    Add to Technorati Favorites

    Add to Google Reader or Homepage

    Add to My AOL

    Subscribe in Bloglines

    Powered by FeedBurner


    Where Fr. Z will be:
  • Upcoming Events:
  • Events
  • 24 April 2006

    I am pretty sure sure this is NOT what Catullus had in mind…

    CATEGORY: SESSIUNCULUM — Fr. John Zuhlsdorf @ 9:29 pm

    CatullusSomewhere the dust of the poet Catullus is whirling around like a little cartoon swirl of old papers at the exit of the Coyote from the out Shrine.

    Somehow, I have the idea this is not what Catullus had in mind to get from his version of the poem:

    VIVAMUS, meum Compendium, et cognoscamus,
    rumoresque senum magistrorum
    omnes unius aestimemus assis!
    Soles occidere et redire possunt:
    nobis cum semel occidit breuis lux,
    nox est perpetua una dormienda.
    Da mi quaesita mille, deinde centum,
    dein mille altera, dein secunda centum,
    deinde usque altera mille, deinde centum.
    dein, cum milia multa cognovimus,
    studebimus illa, ut sciamus,
    et ut quis ignarus cognoscere possit,
    cum tantum sciat esse quasitorum.

    I know these kids at Notre Dame like their Compendium, but… sheesh!   I hope they don’t try to adjust some of the other stuff by Catullus.

    The Coyote 

    • • • • • •

    What is meant by “abrogate”?

    CATEGORY: SESSIUNCULUM — Fr. John Zuhlsdorf @ 5:46 pm

    St. Pope Pius VIn earlier entries I offered that the Pope might simply make a statement about the older form of Mass not ever having been "abrogated".  I got some mail on that asking me what "abrogate" means, and what it means here.  I am not a canonist by training, but here goes.  I am sure that one of the frequent participants here, a canonist, will jump in.

    First, suffice to say that a Pope is not bound by his predecessors in matters of discipline (the legal ordering of the life of the Church).  The 1570 Bull Quo primum of Pope St. Pius V, by which he promulgated the older "Tridentine" form of the Missale Romanum, is a matter of discipline.  Neither Paul VI nor Benedict XVI (now happily reigning) are bound by Quo primum.  A Pope is free to promulgate a missal as he deems it useful for the life of the Church.  As a matter of fact, Pope Clement VIII put out a new edition in 1604.  The changes made were not huge changes (like those of the Missal of Paul VI), but they were changes nonetheless.

    Pope Paul VIAt the same time, the words of the laws that govern the Church need to be interpreted.  When clear, they are easy to understand.  When vague, they ought to be clarified when questions of the laws application arise.  "Abrogate" means to abolish completely, in such a way that you cannot appeal even to long-standing custom.  A good example of this is found the Congregation for Divine Worship’s widely ignored document entitled Redemptionis Sacramentum:

    [65.] It should be borne in mind that any previous norm that may have admitted non-ordained faithful to give the homily during the eucharistic celebration is to be considered abrogated by the norm of canon 767 §1. This practice is reprobated, so that it cannot be permitted to attain the force of custom.

    ["Reprobate" means to abolish something in a quite severe way so as to make it impossible to appeal to custom even after future violations of law over a long time (as was the case with altar girls, etc. etc.).  But we are not talking about "reprobate" here, but "abrogate".]

    Holy MassIn Quo primum Pius V established three basic things: 1) he established use of the Missale Romanum everywhere in the Church (while providing for the use of ancient rites in some places), 2) he established its use in perpetuity, and 3) he acknowledged that the use of the texts and rite was ancient and venerable (and thus it can be called an immemorial custom). 

    There is no question that a subsequent Pope had the authority to abolish the legal force any or all of these things done by Pius V in 1570.  However, it has to be clear that he intends to abolish them.  A Pope could abolish all of the points, or only some of the points.  There is a question about the intent of Paul VI’s promulgation in 1969 of the so-called Novus Ordo.  Did Paul VI intend that the older form of Mass was "completely abolished"? 

    Apparently not, since Pope Paul immediately permitted use of the older Mass under certain circumstances.  For example, older priests could still use the older Mass and some places in England could continue its use.  What Paul VI seems to have done is derogate from part of Quo primum in promulgating a new order of Mass.  "Derogate" means abolish just part of a law.  He did not abrogate, or abolish all of the points.

    If this is true, and Paul VI in promulgating the Novus Ordo by means of his Apostolic Constitution Missale Romanum then it can be argued with some conviction that the older form of Mass is still entirely usable by priests of the Latin rite. 

    Pope John Paul IIAt the same time, the interpretation of law is governed not just be the specific words, but also by praxis or the way in which laws are actually applied.  The fact is that in his 1988 Motu Proprio Ecclesia Dei adflicta the late Holy Father Pope John Paul II intended to "broaden" the legislation he had already provided in 1984 concerning use of the older form of Mass.  This means that, if he broadened it, he must have thought it was too narrow.  And if it was narrow, there must have been some restrictions on use of the older Missale.  That is, priests weren’t completely free to use it any time they wished after all.  Furthermore, the Holy See issued faculties to use the older form of Mass.  I have those faculties.  The Holy See would not issue faculties if there were no need to do so.  So, even if there were somewhere a total mistake in the interpretation of both Quo primum of Pius V and Missale Romanum of Paul VI, the praxis of the Curia during the reign of Pope John Paul II and now Benedict XVI implies there are restictions.

    This is a good foundation for why His Eminence
    Jorge Card. Medina Estévez said that although the older form of Mass "was never abrogated", and that the use of the old rite "is consequently legitimate," nevertheless it still seems necessary to "maintain some norms for the good order of liturgical life in the dioceses." 

    Note that last point: good order.


    Pope Benedict XVIWe know what would happen if blanket permission was declared by Benedict XVI.  Some imprudent priests, perhaps even a few wackos, would immediately subject their people to the older Mass (celebrated more or less properly) despite the fact that a) the people haven’t seen it for nearly 40 years and b) many don’t want it and c) the priest is not perhaps thinking of what is truly best for the people in the parish.  There would no doubt be some dust-ups and fights here and there.  People would get mad.  Bishops would justly or unjustly, directly or by indirection, hammer the priests in question.  Eventually things would settle down, of course.  Let’s not blow these kerfuffles into hurricanes, after all.  Still, given the present lack of ability of many priests and bishops to deal directly with each other in a manly and respectful way, many bishops will want to avoid even the possibility of a scrum. 

    That is understandable, I guess, even if it is a bit stingy.  I don’t think we should, at any cost, avoid conflict over important issues.  Sometimes (not al the time) what avoiding conflict costs is growth.

    • • • • • •

    A prayer for liturgical translators

    CATEGORY: SESSIUNCULUM — Fr. John Zuhlsdorf @ 4:21 pm

    St. Jerome of CaravaggioSome time ago, I put out an invitation for you to compose a prayer for translators working on the new English version of the Missale Romanum

    I finally took the bull by the horns and wrote one.  Transatlantic flights are good for something!  Many thanks to my friend GW, a great scholar, who offered some helpful suggestions.  It is subject to some revision, but here it is!  This is the Latin version (which you probably knew already).  

    Since the mandate from the Holy See was to revise translations world wide, I figured it was best to compose and publish in Latin.  We can have our own WDTPRS versions along the way!

    Oratio pro liturgicis interpretibus

    Omnipotens et misericors Deus,
    qui super Unigeniti Filii tui apostolos
    et coram eis Ecclesiam et Ecclesiae Matrem,
    linguis flammarum rutilantibus,
    Sanctum Spiritum misisti abundanter,
    concede, propitius,
    ut qui
    reddendis ritibus eiusdem sanctae Ecclesiae
    variis in orbis terrarum linguis
    nunc magno cum studio certant,
    ita recte intellegant ac conversentur decore
    ut nos post diluvium dissociati
    et concorditer a te accipere salutifera
    et te laudare possimus
    unanimiter
    Per Christum Dominum nostrum.

    • • • • • •
    Powered by: Luke 5:1-11 and WordPress