Fr. Z ask your help: LATIN propers for St. John Neumann – urgent

 

A priest friend just called me looking for the LATIN propers for St. John Neumann.

I have looked through some of my things and cannot find them, which is odd.

HELP!!

In that note, you might be interested to know that St. John Neumann has had a change of vestments.

Here is a shot of Card. Rigali of Philadelphia at the changing and, I suppose, recognitio.

I believe I see a maniple with these Roman style vestments:

They got him out of those dreadful old polyester things:

The saint’s feast is 5 January.

I tip my biretta  o{]:¬)  to Philadelphia Roamin’ Catholic for the images.

 

UPDATE:  4 Jan 2008 16:26 GMT

I tip my biretta to Fr. PA who tipped me off that the propers were in the FSSP Ordo.  Eureka!   

COLLECT:
Deus, qui beatum Ioannem Confessorem tuum atque Pontificum
pastoralibus ministeriis clarescere voluisti;
concede propitius: ut eius monita et exempla sectantes,
vitam consequamur aeternam.  Per Dominum.

SECRET (SUPER OBLATA):
Hostiam, quam tibi, Domine,
in honorem beati Pontificis Ioannis offerimus,
propitius respice: et ignem tui amoris,
quo ipse flagravit, in nobis accende.  Per Dominum.  (Per Christum.)

POSTCOMMUNION:
Pretioso Corpore et Sanguine dilecti Filii tui, Domine, recreati,
te supplices exoramus;
ut beati Ioannis meritis, ipsum Pontificum pastorum secuti in terris,
ad pascua perveniamus aeterna.  Qui tecum vivit.  (Per Christum.)

Now that we have these, I would like to know if any Redemptorists out there might have propers. 

Let’s keep working on this! 

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About Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Fr. Z is the guy who runs this blog. o{]:¬)
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22 Responses to Fr. Z ask your help: LATIN propers for St. John Neumann – urgent

  1. Dr. Lee Fratantuono says:

    I have never seen the Latin propers for the ordinary form for Elizabeth Ann Seton or John Neumann. The 1964 Roman Breviary has proper offices (of 9 lessons) for both of them, but in the vernacular; I have never seen them in Latin for the extraordinary form, either.

  2. TNCath says:

    They had actually changed what they had originally buried St. John Neumann in just to put him in contemporary styled vestments?

    Thank God they changed him back! That is truly weird.

  3. Matthew says:

    Father,

    I believe the Latin propers (at least for the “extraordinary” form”) are in the FSSP’s ordo.

  4. Geoffrey says:

    The propers are also in the very back of the Baronius Press Missal on page 2141 in the section titled “Supplement for the dioceses of the United States: Optional Feasts.” For the Ordinary Form, the Daily Roman Missal has the Entrance Antiphon and Communion Antiphon in Latin, with the rest in English.

  5. We want the TEXTS, please, not just the reference.

  6. Geoffrey says:

    The texts posted above from the FSSP Ordo are the same as in the Baronius Press Missal. For the Ordinary Form from the Daily Roman Missal:

    Entrance Antiphon Ps 16:5-6
    Dominus, pars hereditatis me et calicis mei; tu es qui detines sortem meam.
    Funes ceciderunt mihi in praeclaris; insuper et hereditas mea speciosa est mihi.

    Communion Antiphon Mt 19:29
    Omnis qui reliquit domos vel fratres aut sorores aut patrem aut matrem aut filios
    aut agros propter nomen meum, centuplum accipiet et vitam aeternam possidebit.

  7. Pleased as Punch says:

    This is probably too late, but here goes:

    Collect:

    Deus, qui beatum Joannem Confessorem tuum atque Pontificem pastoralibus ministeriis clarescere voluisti; concede propitius: ut ejus monita et exempla sectantes, vitam consequamur aeternam. Per Dominum…

    Secret:

    Hostiam, quam tibi, Domine, in honorem beati Pontificis Joannis offerimus, propitius respice: et ignem tui amoris, quo ipse flagravit, in nobis accende. Per Dominum…

    Postcommunion:

    Pretioso Corpore et Sanguine dilecti Filii tui, Domine, recreati, te supplices exoramus; ut, beati Joannis meritis, ipsum Pontificem pastorum secuti in terris, ad pascua perveniamus aeterna. Qui tecum vivit…

    These texts are from the Baronius Press hand missal; it claims the rest of the proper comes from the Mass *Statuit…*.

  8. dcs says:

    They had actually changed what they had originally buried St. John Neumann in just to put him in contemporary styled vestments?

    Well, “they” dug him up from his original tomb, put a wax sculpture over his skeleton, dressed him in modern vestments (including miter, gloves, and sandals), and put him under the new altar (the old high altar is hiding behind the mural of the Little Bishop in the apse).

  9. danphunter1 says:

    Do you actually find that chapel edifying and beautiful, Father?

  10. Dr. Lee Fratantuono says:

    I would be curious to know where the FSSP/Baronius found those texts; I have never seen the Latin in an official liturgical book/fascicle.

    Office texts would be nice to have, both old and new!

  11. Matthew Mattingly says:

    Yes, it looks like they restored the traditional Catholic vestments to the body of Saint John N. Neumann. Thank God! The new chasuble, alb, and maniple are all in the classically Catholic Roman style. The mitre is nice too.
    I think it was a disgrace at the time that the new shrine was built that they actually dug Saint John Neumann up just to cloth him in “Vatican II” style vestments….and ugly ones at that.
    I think that now He has been re-vested in traditionalist Catholic Roman style vestments again is a sign of the direction the Catholic Church is going on.
    ** As an aside, everyone should see the traditionalist Catholic renovations Cardinal Rigali is authorizing at our Cathedral of SS. Peter and Paul in Philadelphia….truely beautiful and magnificent. Gone are the horrible “Vatican II” style fabricated “shrines” and bizarre decorations. The main altar has been totally re-done with a magnificent new marble and “Mother of Pearl” altar, marble Stations of the Cross afixed to the various points around the Cathedral, and new marble altars being constructed for the side chapels. It’s all happened rather quickly. Since the introduction of the Motu Proprio “Summorum Pontificum” in July.
    Practically all vestiges of the “Vatican II” artwork in the Cathedral (all ugly ,contemporary stuff which was a complete departure from traditional Catholic concepts of church art/adornment are gone. Alleluia. A few other parishes in the Philadelphia area are undergoing similar restorations.

  12. Jonathan Bennett says:

    Is the body of St. John Neumann incorrupt? Sure looks like that.

  13. Cristhian says:

    the readings for this mass are from the previous sunday, and what preface use??????

  14. Henry Edwards says:

    Perhaps it’s worth supplying the English translations given in the Baronius missal and the FSSP Ordo for January 5 (St. John Neumann, Bishop and Confessor, II class in Philadelphia, Greensburg, and Pittsburgh; III class in all other U.S. dioceses):

    Collect
    O God, who willed blessed John, thy confessor and bishop, to shine in pastoral works; graciously grant that, following his teachings and examples, we might obtain eternal life.

    Secret
    Look down favorably, O Lord, upon the sacrifice we offer in honor of blessed John, bishop: and enkindle in us the fire of thy love with which he burned.

    Postcommunion
    Refreshed, O Lord, by the Precious Body and Blood of thy Son, we humbly implore thee: that by the merits of blessed John, we who followed him a a shepherd of shepherds on earth might arrive at eternal pastures.

    The ICEL efforts (from the Magnificat missalette):

    Opening Prayer
    Almighty god, you called Saint John Neumann to a life of service, zeal, and compassion for the guidance of you people in the new world. By his prayers help us to build up the community of the Church through our dedication to the Christian education of youth and through the witness of our brotherly love.

    Prayer over the Gifts
    Father of mercies, look upon the gifts that we present in memory of Christ your Son. Form us in his likeness as you formed Saint John, who imitated what he handled in these holy mysteries.

    Prayer after Communion
    Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, you have united us with our Redeemer in this memorial of his death and resurrection. By the power of this sacrament help us to live, one in spirit and in truth, in the communion of Christ’s body.

  15. Fr. Scott Bailey, C.Ss.R. says:

    Ex Missae Propriae Congregationis SS. Redemptoris

    III classis

    Missa Statuit de Communi Confessoris Pontificis 1 loco, cum orationibus ut infra:

    Collect:

    Deus, qui beatum Ioannem Confessorem tuum atque Pontificum pastoralibus ministeriis clarescere voluisti; concede propitius: ut eius monita et exempla sectantes,vitam consequamur aeternam. Per Dominum.

    Secret:

    Hostiam, quam tibi, Domine, in honorem beati Pontificis Ioannis offerimus, propitius respice: et ignem tui amoris, quo ipse flagravit, in nobis accende. Per Dominum.

    Prefatio de Epiphania.

    Postcommunion:

    Pretioso Corpore et Sanguine dilecti Filii tui, Domine, recreati, te supplices deprecamur; ut, beati Ioannis meritis, ipsum Principem pastorum secuti in terris, ad pascua perveniamus aeterna. Qui tecum vivit.

    Note that the prayers are the same as those previously posted except for the Postcommunion which is slightly different. The proper texts for the Mass were not greatly developed as Neumann was only beatified in 1963.

    The Redemptorist propers for the ordinary form (in English) can be found here: http://www.redemptoristspirituality.net/eng2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=76&Itemid=100

    St. John Neumann is not incorrupt. His bones are encased in wax. When his body was exhumed after his beatification it was entombed beneath the high altar in the lower church of St. Peter the Apostle in Philadelphia. Sometime after his canonization in 1977 the lower church was renovated and became the Shrine of St. John Neumann. A second renovation took place in the 1990s when the body was clothed in new vestments and a new wax covering was made. I think all would agree it was rather ugly and looked nothing like him. As you can see in the picture Fr. Z posted, a new wax covering has been made and the saints remains have been clothed in vestments much more in keeping with his episcopal dignity and the time in which he lived. We can only hope that the shrine will be redone in its entirety, though I know of no plans for this to happen at this time.

  16. dcs says:

    Fr. Bailey, thank you very much for your informative post. I think it is difficult for most people to tell whether the wax covering resembled St. John as one could only see it from the side where it lay under the altar.

    There is a museum off to the left of the Shrine in which one can see some of the things which St. John used during his all-too-brief lifetime, including his cilice and discipline, the stone on which he sat right before he died, and a bureau on which he offered Mass while missioning in New York. No, the Shrine itself is not much too look at but it is worth a pilgrimage if one is in the Philadelphia area.

    I do not see a pontifical dalmatic in the picture above but then the quality is not great. I think I shall pay the Little Bishop a visit on his feast day.

  17. Habemus Papam says:

    I was told that “they” tried to take St.Bernadette out of her habit and reclothe her in something more modern but she wouldn’t budge, they had to leave her as she was. Certainly her incorrupt body in the glass casket is an island of Tradition in a wreckovated Convent chapel.

  18. Alexander says:

    Habemus Papam wrote:
    “I was told that “they” tried to take St.Bernadette out of her habit and reclothe her in something more modern but she wouldn’t budge, they had to leave her as she was.”

    Really? Is that information online anywhere?

  19. Habemus Papam says:

    I don’t know Alexander. I was told this about 14 years ago and if true I guess would date to the “renovations” of the convent chapel in Nevers.

  20. Patrick says:

    Is there a supplement for the Liturgia Horarum for the United States? I pray the Office in Latin, but have not seen anything for prayers of St John Neumann, St Elizabeth Ann Seton and St Katharine Drexel, i.e., the second reading for the Office of Readings, the Benedictus/Magnificat Antiphons, etc.

  21. Fr. Scott Bailey, C.Ss.R. says:

    Patrick,

    There is a supplement avialable from Catholic Book Publishing Co. Most religious goods dealers should carry it. It is only available in English to my knowledge.

  22. leo says:

    The Cure d Ars now wears a very plain surplice he had been lying in a lot of lace