A different angle on the Pope’s US visit: The Catholic Herald (UK)

12 Responses to A different angle on the Pope’s US visit: The Catholic Herald (UK)

1. SM says:

   18 April 2008 at 7:02 am

   Benedict XVI can not even mandate to put the altar rails back into churches to let people kneel and receive communion on the tongue without having to say Amen before putting the tongue out.
2. Volpius says:

   18 April 2008 at 8:14 am

   The Herald ahve a link concerning the music at the Mass and the link brings me to back to your website Father and isplays the folowing:

   ??????????, ?? ???? ???????, ????? ?? ????????? ?? ?????? ????????!

   Any idea what that menas?
3. Martha says:

   18 April 2008 at 8:19 am

   With regard to yesterday’s papal Mass, I can’t help but be reminded of Sr. Lucia’s comment regarding the 3rd Secret when asked if it(the secret) was good or bad. She replied that it was good for some and bad for others. Yesterday’s Mass was good for me. It further confirmed me in my love for, and adherence to the Tridentine Mass as the form of Catholic worship pleasing to God, a thoroughly vertical, God-centered form of worship.

   The same Mass will be “bad” for others – for those who have lost their Catholic ethos. They continue on the road to perdition.

   God bless you, Tom. I enjoy reading your comments.
4. Volpius says:

   18 April 2008 at 8:19 am

   hmm that didn’t display properly for some reason here is the link to the page:

   http://wdtprs.com/blog/2008/04/blogs-i-look-at-react-to-the-washington-dc-mass/
5. Kradcliffe says:

   18 April 2008 at 8:29 am

   From there I found this link to a little FAQ on Papal vestments:

   http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/posted/archive/2008/04/17/fashion-file-pope-style.aspx
6. Joe says:

   18 April 2008 at 8:59 am

   Father Zuhlsdorf, if you could direct us to any in depth coverage of the Pontiff’s meeting with Catholic educators, it would be appreciated. That coverage is getting lost as the secular press leads with “the abuse angle” every day.
   Thanks for your great work in pulling together so many good articles on the trip thus far.
7. Tom says:

   18 April 2008 at 11:33 am

   Yesterday’s Papal Mass demonstrated is that the Latin Church, not only in the United States, is simply not ready to return to Her great Roman liturgical tradition.

   That is the case even if the New York Papal liturgies prove, at least musically, superior to yesterday’s liturgical debacle at Nationals Stadium.

   Many conservatives bloggers and posters yesterday absolved Pope Benedict XVI and Monsignor Guido Marini from any degree of responsibility for the Papal Mass debacle.

   The fact is that nobody dictates to the Pope. When he wishes to promote his ecumenical vision for the Church, he does so in grand fashion (as did Pope John Paul II).

   When Pope Benedict XVI wishes to promote his interreligious vision for the Church, he prays publicly in mosques and synagogues.

   The Holy Father could easily have promoted his liturgical vision for the Church by having insisted that his Nationals Stadium Papal Mass would be offered in accordance to his teachings.

   We know, particularly as the result of yesterday’s Mass, that the Latin Church in the United States is not remotely ready to restore liturgical sanity and beauty to our parishes.

   Yes…here and there parishes will offer fairly traditional Novus Ordo Masses.

   But yesterday’s Papal Mass demonstrated beyond doubt that by and large, it will be liturgical business as usual for the “American Church.”

   Even more upsetting is that Pope Benedict XVI refused yesterday to promote yesterday his liturgical vision for the Latin Church.

   Therefore, the Pope demonstrated that he is willing to tolerate liturgical business as usual regarding the Novus Ordo.

   Yes…His Holiness’ New York Masses may prove superior to yesterday’s Papal Mass, at least regarding musical selections.

   But we are left with the Nationals Stadium Papal Mass, which many American bishops, priests, and laymen will point to as being perfectly acceptable liturgy.

   The “American Church” will be able to declare…”that style of Mass was good enough for the Pope…therefore, that style of Mass is good enough for us.”

   Again…no matter how “traditional” the New York Papal Masses may be, the “American Church” diocesan and parish types who, in reality, control the Mass in America, will be able to point to the Washington Papal Mass as being “good enough for the Pope…good enough for us.”

   The unfortunate reality is that the Latin Church, at least in America, is simply not ready as a whole to return to liturgical sanity.

   Traditional Latin Mass communities will prosper in America. A relatively few parishes will offer decent Novus Ordo liturgy.

   But by and large, it will be liturgical business as usual in America…and the Latin Church in the United States will remain in Her state of liturgical collapse.

   We must pray that Pope Benedict XVI returns to the Traditional Latin Mass — the Mass that he was ordained to offer.

   We must pray that the Holy Father promotes the Traditional Latin Mass to the hilt — most powerfully so by offering the TLM publicly.

   Pax.
8. Tom says:

   18 April 2008 at 11:53 am

   Martha wrote: “With regard to yesterday’s papal Mass…It further confirmed me in my love for, and adherence to the Tridentine Mass as the form of Catholic worship pleasing to God, a thoroughly vertical, God-centered form of worship.”

   What wonderful remarks by Martha.

   Certain conservative bloggers attacked Traditional Catholics yesterday when they claimed that Tradtionalists supposedly had a grand time bashing the Novus Ordo.

   I read Martha’s post and find that the claim in question is ridiculous.

   Martha, and her brothers and sisters who love the Traditional Latin Mass, understand that the TLM is fully God-centered…it’s vertical worship…God is always front and center at the TLM.

   What transpired during yesterday’s Papal Mass could not possibly have transpired had the Traditional Latin Mass been offered at Nationals Stadium in place of the Novus Ordo.

   Martha understands why the TLM is vital to Catholics and the life of Holy Mother Church.

   Frankly, based upon their remarks yesterday, many conservative bloggers do not understand why the Traditional Latin Mass is, compared to the Novus Ordo, the superior Mass.

   Conservatives yesterday fired at Traditionalists when they stated that the TLM can be “mumbled” by priests.

   Nobody said that a priest could not “mumble” through the TLM.

   Nobody said that Novus Ordo cannot be offered in proper fashion. The fact is that yesterday’s Papal Mass was offered free of liturgical abuses and in proper fashion by the Holy Father.

   But yesterday’s Novus Ordo Papal Mass was a debacle. The watered-down, ecumenically-flavored prayers remained in place.

   Communion in the hand remained in place. Nobody knelt to receive Holy Communion.

   The Papal Mass was offered properly and in complete adherence to Church teachings…and it was a debacle.

   That is the Novus Ordo’s inherent weakness. Even when offered properly, it remains a man-centered Mass.

   The men who formed the Novus Ordo constructed the Mass to be man-centered…and that cannot change…even when offered free of liturgical abuses and in proper priestly fashion.

   Conversely, as Martha indicated, the Traditional Latin Mass is God-centered worship…and will remain always a God-centered vertical Mass.

   That is why the Traditional Latin Mass, compared to the Novus Ordo, is the far superior Mass.

   Martha understands that.

   I pray that our conservative brothers and sisters in the Faith will grasp the reality that the Novus Ordo can not possibly reinvigorate Catholic identity.

   Pax.

   Comment by Martha
9. Tom says:

   18 April 2008 at 12:21 pm

   Our Holy Father desires that Catholics in America reject hedonism.

   His Holiness wishes that Catholics in America leaven America’s me-first, look-at-me, man-centered society.

   How on earth does the Holy Father expect Catholics in the U.S. to leaven society and reject selfish, hedonistic attitudes when yesterday’s Papal Mass featured preening, look-at-me, hedonistic attitudes?
10. Tom says:

    18 April 2008 at 12:40 pm

    One aspect regarding yesterday’s Papal Mass debacle that had gone unnoticed is the ecumenical ramifications that the debacle will have with the Eastern Orthodox.

    A number of Catholic Churchmen have linked the need to restore sanity and beauty to the Roman Liturgy to ecumenical relations with the Eastern Orthodox.

    The idea is that as long as Latin Church liturgy remains in a state of collapse, ecumenical relations with the Eastern Orthodox will remain all but dead in the water.

    With the emphasis that the Eastern Orthodox place upon grand liturgy, they will certainly view yesterday’s Papal Mass as an unmistakable sign that the Latin Church is incapable of recovering Her liturgical and even spiritual sanity.

    The Papal Mass debacle yesterday sent a clear and extremely unfavorable message to the Eastern Orthodox and could not possibly have advanced ecumenical relations with the East.

    That said, imagine what Eastern Catholics must think about yesterday’s Papal Mass.

    What a debacle…all the way around.
11. Justin says:

    18 April 2008 at 1:15 pm

    Tom: What about Catholics who love and attend solely the TLM but at the same time is full of hope and trust in the promises of Christ to his Church? Who also believe that the Holy Father has wisdom and grace given to him by the Holy Spirit as Successor to St Peter? Who believe that as faithful Catholics – dictating to the Holy Father what he has to do (e.g. must ban the NO, publicly rebuke his bishops, etc.), does not demonstrate the humility that the Vicar of Christ demands?

    We go on and on about how the Holy Father should stamp his authority. How about we begin with ourselves as self-proclaimed faithful Catholics who swear unswerving fealty and loyalty to the Pope, obedience and total humility before the Supreme Pontiff chosen by God to lead his holy Church?
12. Elinor Dashwood says:

    19 April 2008 at 12:00 pm

    Many of these comments underscore a point Father Z has made recently: a lot of thoroughly well-meaning dedicated advocates of the Extraordinary Form do it a great disservice by their incessant griping. Chronically bad-tempered people don’t present an interesting and inviting picture to the eyes of Catholics who may never have been to a Mass celebrated in the EF, but who might be open to learning more about it. For Heaven’s sake, smile a little once in a while. If you don’t remember how much worse things were thirty years ago, I do.