The Crescat has written with good new and a request for a hand:
I have confirmed that St. Anne’s in Charlotte NC will begin offering the mass in extraordinary form starting May 31st. The mass will be each Saturday at 8 a.m. It was stressed to me that weekly offering of the mass depends solely on the level of participation. Basically, the more support the mass in extraordinary form receives the more it will be made available. If the numbers are low for the Saturday morning mass, then it will not be offered weekly.
Please help get the word out so that many souls will be present for the 1st mass that Saturday morning the 31st.
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I used to live in Charlotte but was attending a non-Catholic church at that time. I hope others will attend. Meanwhile, I’m going to attend my first Tridentine Mass this Sunday.
I’ll say some prayers that St. Anne’s enjoys a bumper crop of souls. :-)
Saturday? Why not on Sunday?
You know exactly why it’s not at 8:00 AM on a Sunday. It’s because the bishop doesn’t want it. Let’s stop pretending as though the majority of U.S. bishops these days are Catholic.
“It was stressed to me that weekly offering of the mass depends solely on the level of participation. Basically, the more support the mass in extraordinary form receives the more it will be made available. If the numbers are low for the Saturday morning mass, then it will not be offered weekly.”
Based upon that principle, shouldn’t the Novus Ordo have been dropped to non-weekly status decades ago?
The Traditional Latin Mass enjoyed a 75 percent Sunday Mass attendance rate…the Novus Ordo, which enjoys, so to speak, a liturgical monopoly, struggles just to attract 20 or so percent of Catholics to Mass each Sunday.
Considering the low level of participation associated with the Novus Ordo (about 80 percent of Catholics refuse each week to assist at the Novus Ordo), why isn’t the Novus Ordo subjected to “level of participation” standards?
Is Confession, for example, subjected to “level of participation” standards?
I have witnessed priests offer Confession one hour on Wednesday nights and one hour on Saturday mornings…and the priests heard not more than four or five confessions per session.
Priests can set aside at least one hour each week to hear a handful of confessions…but the Holy Traditional Latin Mass is subjected to “level of participation” standards?
Pax.
“If the numbers are low for the Saturday morning mass, then it will not be offered weekly.”
Is it fair to say that the above mentality has driven more than a few Catholics to SSPX chapels?
(I realize that Fr. Z has simply reported the information that he received regarding St. Anne’s parish. Therefore, I do not mean that St. Anne’s “level of participation” attitude regarding the TLM reflects Fr. Z’s attitude toward the TLM.)
Tom, instead of insulting the clergy, who, in this case,
if you haven’t noticed are actually providing the TML,
why don’t you urge people to attend.
Your attitude is why priests I know, who love the old
liturgy, don’t want to provide it. It seems that
at good number of those who demand it have your attitude.
In one of the parishes in our Diocese where the traditional Mass is to be offered they total number of people attending Mass is 98, that’s a Saturday evening mass and two masses on Sunday morning. The Traditional Mass is to be said as an additional Mass at 3 o’clock on Sunday afternoons. I’ve just checked the diocesan year book, obviously the Traditional Mass is not listed in the latest book because the Traditional Mass was as we..ALL..knew banned by Vatican II..The total Catholic population of that parish is 275, only 98 go to mass. The rest of the diocese, which is one of the biggest geographically, in England has hardly any Traditional Masses despite repeated requests. Unbelievably we are seen as to be living in one of the better diocese in this regard.
Please Fr Z, whenever you are in Rome always remind the Powers that be that we are getting no where in trying to restore the Church.
Just what evidence does Eugene have that Bishop Jugis is against the TLM? He hasn’t any. And there’s evidence a plenty to the contrary.
The priest offering the Mass at St. Anne’s is new to the TLM, and most likely wants to start slow. Large attendance will provide evidence that the TLM is wanted, and such attendance will yield results.
The only people that can kill the TLM are ironically fans of the TLM.
The Tridentine Latin High Mass will be offered in our parish on Thursday, April 17th at 5:30 p.m. Fr. John Lessard-Thibodeau, from Our Lady of Guadalupe Church in Holyoke, will be the guest celebrant. Please note that head coverings for the ladies are traditionally worn for this Mass.
This will be my first TLM in a parish setting. Before this,we had to go to Manasteries and Convents to assist at a TLM. It is interesting to note that even in places that
have monthly or weekly TLMs they are usually not on Sunday, many times they are offered only monthly and if they are on a Sunday it is offered at 3 or 4PM.
It is almost as if the TLM is treated as the red-headed, outcast stepchild as one never see the TLM as a principal Mass on a Sunday morning (At least here in the Northeast).
Over here in the diocese of Raleigh one of the 14 priests recently trained to say the TLM has begun offering it on Tuesday mornings at his parish. The first few weeks were packed into the tiny chapel (15 people?) but as the retirees didn’t have a clue as to what was going on, they stopped coming. This past week there was our family (6) and 3 others. Since then I ordered 20 Ecclesia Dei missals so people used to the Novis Ordo could properly follow along, but I don’t know if they will return to give it a chance.
My prayers are for the priest to persevere and for the Saturday Mass in Charlotte to succeed. This is the first step toward restoring the liturgy to its proper place in our lives and the Catholic Church and a good first impression is very important.
It also sounds to me as if they are setting this up for ultimate failure. While it\’s obviously a good thing to offer the traditional Mass, to place it at an obviously inconvenient time and then tie its continuation to participation smacks of disingenuosity. My guess is that the only people who will be assisting on Saturday mornings are those who already have a love for the traditional Mass. In my opinion, the traditional Mass needs to be made conveniently available so that the wider audience of faithful might be made aware of its beauty and magnificence. Otherwise how are the numbers who assist at the Mass supposed to grow?
I couldn\’t help but recall Fr. Z\’s analogy of the Mass to food a few months ago. To continue that analogy, Sunday Mass might be construed as the main meal of the day, whereas weekday Masses might be taken for snacks. Some people might jump on me for this, but I view the Tridentine Mass as a hearty meal, whereas the Novus Ordo is merely a bag of greasy chips (those would be \”crisps\” for our non-English-speaking English friends). Why have greasy chips for your main meal on Sunday and then a hearty snack on Saturday?
Anyway, I do hope that the turnout on the Saturday Masses will be strong, in order to demonstrate to the clergy that despite their poor timing of the Mass there is still a wide desire for it. And I hope that the folks from St. Anthony of Padua (the SSPX chapel outside of Charlotte) will also assist at the Saturday Masses! I would think that the proliferation of the traditional Mass in general would be to their interest as well.
Has it been announced throughout the diocese by the usual channels?
If it has not then it seems unfair to me to judge its popularity, not everyone reads Father Z’s blog after all, though they should :)
I also agree, drop the negative attitude, it does not come from the Holy spirit and does not help, instead practice custody of the tongue or in this case the fingers.
Fr. Z,
Many thanks for putting this information up about the MEF at St. Ann’s.
St. Ann’s hard working young pastor, Fr. Timothy Reid, has been learning the rubrics for the past few months along with all his regular responsibilities including planning for a new church. I’ve been a part of a small group which has been helping Father with the organization and preparation and can tell you that Fr. Reid is very supportive and fully aware of not only the needs of the faithful and the spiritual benefits that come from the MEF for the congregation, but the graces that flow to the priest in this solemn and Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.
It’s certainly important that the faithful support these first efforts at the MEF in Charlotte and success will hopefully and prayerfully lead to a Sunday Mass. I truly believe that the Holy Spirit has awakened a desire for the ancient form of the Mass in a significant number in Charlotte and thanks to prayers the numbers will continue to grow.
The fact that it’s on a Saturday to start with doesn’t mean that the bishop is not supportive. Actually I believe that he is supportive but is rather a cautious sort and prefers that foundations be firmly built before going ahead, especially something as important as the ancient Mass being said once again in Charlotte.
It’s no secret that there is resistance, but it is definitely not Bishop Jugis. In some cases it’s older people who strangely refuse or even resist the Mass they once knew. In others it’s a case of those who have only experienced the Novus Ordo. The problem here of course is ‘you can’t love what you don’t know’. But that will change.
Please storm the gates of Heaven in prayer for Fr. Reid, Bishop Jugis and all the faithful in the Charlotte diocese.
In Christ,
Pat Klass
Sat. at 8 a.m. Unbelievable. Been down this road before. For a long time we had a weekly Wed. at 7 a.m., but only monthly on Sundays.
Go figure…
For those truly interested in assisting, Fr. Novak offers the TLM nearly every Saturday at 12:30 p.m. at Mt. Holly and every Sunday with a Missa Cantata at 9 a.m.
Not subject to attendance.
I admit, when I first was told the news my reaction was negative as well. Geesh, I thought, was Tueday morning at 2 a.m. not available?
But, this really is a blessing. If you live in the area you know how bad things are and that many drive up to 100 miles to go the MEF. The local liturgies in the city where the Bishops sits are… how to say this charitably… well, I can’t say it charitably so I won’t say it at all. But you get the idea.
So don’t complain about the incovenient time, or the fact that how often the mef will be celebrated depends “on numbers”. All that negativity does is fuel that stereotype that all trads are militant and hard to please.
I was speaking to Fr. K once and he said he loves the mef but it’s the trads that scare him and make him hestitant to celebrate the mass.
I do agree with some of the above comments about the stipulation of numbers of congregants is unfair, to say the least, but lets try to not dwell on the negatives.
I’m grateful and will be there on the 21st & the 31st to show my support. If you’re local here, I pray you find the time to do the same.
Thank you, Fr. Z for posting this.
The Tridentine Latin High Mass will be offered in our parish on Thursday, April 17th at 5:30 p.m. Fr. John Lessard-Thibodeau, from Our Lady of Guadalupe Church in Holyoke, will be the guest celebrant.
We will be attending our first parish TLM tonight(Before this we have had to go to monasteries and convents for the TLM). I find it odd that the TLM is only offered at odd times on weekdays or late on Sunday afternoons (and even then usually monthly).
It is as if the TLM is treated as the red-headed, outcast step-child, when in fact it is the crown jewel of the Catholic Church.
We need to have the TLM offered as one of the principal Sunday morning Masses in parishes (At least here in the Northeast).
I have a suggestion for the “bishop.” Why not have the TLM offered at every regularly scheduled Sunday Mass next week at the Parish and offer the Novus Ordo at 8:00 AM on Saturday morning. I think that turn-about is fair play. Tom
I understand the negative/charitable approach standoff here, but really: if you were going to test the level of support for ANY activity, wouldn’t due diligence be to make the activity as accessible as possible, and THEN if there was no support, you could honestly conclude that nobody was interested? By making it (almost) as difficult as possible for people to attend, what has been proved? On the other hand – it’s important not to let the back-of-the-bus time slot stop people from attending, and demonstrating that there is nothing to rival TLM.
Will women be forced to “traditionally” cover their heads?
Canonball,
Thanks for the comments and your support and presence at St. Ann’s will be appreciated.
Gerry,
No on will force anyone to cover her head. Many, however will be proudly ‘dripping in lace’.
Pat
“Has it been announced throughout the diocese by the usual channels?”
A staff writer for the Catholic News & Herald confirmed it will be in the publication starting May 9-23rd. David Hains, Director of Communications for the diocese, said in an email there will be media at both the introduction on the 21st and the mass on the 31st.
I’m guesssing that you won’t have trouble filling the pews at St. Ann.
Fr. Reid is an EXTRAORDINARILY orthodox priest and any comments to the contrary — or suggesting that he is in any way unwilling to offer TLMs — is proof that you don’t know him. At all. Even a little bit. Nor have you ever attended a Mass said by Father or by the other priest in residence at St. Ann.
Is it inconvenient? No, it is the REGULARLY SCHEDULED SATURDAY MORNING MASS, which you would know if you chose to look at the church website rather than assumed the worst.
I believe you’ll see a number of people from his previous postings at St. Mark and St. Matthew as well. Many of us wish he were OUR pastor.
I’m guesssing that you won’t have trouble filling the pews at St. Ann.
Fr. Reid is an EXTRAORDINARILY orthodox priest and any comments to the contrary — or suggesting that he is in any way unwilling to offer TLMs — is proof that you don\’t know him. At all. Even a little bit. Nor have you ever attended a Mass said by Father or by the other priest in residence at St. Ann.
Is it inconvenient? No, it is the REGULARLY SCHEDULED SATURDAY MORNING MASS, which you would know if you had looked at the church website rather than assuming the worst.