![o{]:¬)](http://www.wdtprs.com/blog/wp-images/topimage.JPG)
Castel Gandolfo, or, What Papa did on his summer vacation
The Holy Father has transferred his flag to the papal Summer Residence at Castel Gandolfo, in the Castelli Romani.
On arriving he was greeted, as you might expect, by crowds. He didn’t go out on the balcony, but he did charge out the front door for a bit.
There are interesting rumors in the Italian press: Will the Holy Father change the ordinary form of the Mass?
http://dagospia.excite.it/articolo_index_41774.html
Comment by Steven — 3 July 2008 @ 10:05 amSteven,
Fascinating. I have absolutely no proficiency in Italian, but given my exclusive attendance at the TLM the last three years, I can kind of decipher (Latin is the gift that keeps on giving) that the Holy Father intends to
1. Require the consecration at the Novus Ordo and all sacramental formulae in the ordinary form be always be in Latin.
2. That the Sign of Peace be moved to the Offertory, as in the Ambrosian Rite.
3. Make mandatory the “Benedictine” altar arrangement.
4. Make mandatory reception of Holy Communion on the tongue to the kneeling.
5. Make mandatory celebration ad orientem.
How’s that?
All of that would be wonderful, of course. I also pray he’d address the herds of Extraordinary Ministers and revisit permission for girl altar boys.
Hopefully when Archbishop Ranjith becomes Prefect of CDWS he’ll waste no time! ;^)
Comment by Jon — 3 July 2008 @ 10:46 amI recall a video on You Tube by Bishop Bernard Fellay of the SSPX. It was from May of 2007 from there Oregon chapel; he was giving a conference. He was not to confident thent hat tthere would even be the motu proprio which came, thanks be to God, not long thereafter.
However, in this lecture he said, if I can paraphrase, “about a year ago spring 2006) he was aware that a high-level panel was working on a new Missal for the Novus Ordo to repair the damage and make it more “Catholic”. Essentially, it involved fewer options, though one option would be using the “Offertory” from the 1962 Missal in the vernacular in the Novus Ordo and the
suppression of all Eucharistic Prayers except EPI, the Roman Canon and EPIII.
The three year lectionary would remain.
If this were to happen, it would make sense and it would coincide with the new Vox Clara Commission translation including the “pro multis.”
Could this then be true?
Could we also be on the verge of the elimination of the indult for Communion
in the hand and a strong push or even mandatory “ad orientem” celebration?
If the above happens, would that not be a “Novus Ordo” that the SSPX, while
not required to celebrate, could accept without theological reservation?
It all seems to be coming together, brick by brick!
Comment by Vox Cantor — 3 July 2008 @ 11:46 amI very much doubt it. These changes would simply be massive and while the Holy Father may want these things I think he gets that if you move too fast, you risk a lot of people falling off. There would also be massive disobedience.
Also, ad orientem was never mandatory even before 1970, was it??
Comment by Jack Regan — 3 July 2008 @ 11:52 amPersonally I hope the following stays in the Mass:
-Priest facing the congregation (with reverence of course)
-Modern music (if done reverently, appropriately and with good theology)
-Lay readers (including women. As long as lay readers respect and understand the importance of what they’re doing, and do it well)
-Altar girls (ditto)
-EMHCs (when actually needed, and they must be properly trained and they must be committed Catholics)
-Use of the vernacular throughout
-Reception of communion in the hand, while standing (again, if done very reverently)
I’d be okay with moving the sign of peace.
I will now duck under a table while I am ripped to shreds. By all means, enjoy yourselves!
Comment by Jack Regan — 3 July 2008 @ 12:04 pmJack,
Everyone has opinions, but some people are more wrong than others ;)
(I’m totally joking… though I do disagree with you on all points)
Comment by Jenny Z — 3 July 2008 @ 12:50 pmJack,
I know you want to see fireworks, but I think you have your holidays mixed up. April FIRST was three months ago. Tomorrow’s July FOURTH!
Comment by Jon — 3 July 2008 @ 12:50 pmWe were never really going to agree on that one really were we
:-)
Also, I’m British. For us tomorrow is just another Friday.
Comment by Jack Regan — 3 July 2008 @ 1:05 pmThis is interesting….although here’s a list of things I’d love to see.
no Communion in the Hand and a return to kneeling. (for those that are physically able to of course)
no Versus Populum…(except where the altars are on the West end of the Church)
no EP II, IV
Benedictne Altar Arrangement (in places where the Tabernacle is NOT in the center)
Axing of the Sign of Peace (or as mentioed, moving it to the offeratory)
Axing of the Prayers of the Faithful (well, all the lame ones, the one’s we here in America anyway, for world peace without Christ, for protestnts to stay protestant, for “social justice” anyway)
Use of Latin at the consecration, Gloria, Sanctus, Agnus Dei and any Sacraments as well as for Benediction.
Supression of EOMHC’s during Mass
Having anyone who serves at the altar in some type of wear (I lose track of the word I want to use). For women, veils of course. Just like EWTN.
Brick by brick…oremus
Comment by Joe of St. ThĂ©rèse — 3 July 2008 @ 1:51 pmAnd what do you think the reaction to that will be?
And I don’t mean from Traditionalists. I mean from the other 99% of the Church.
Comment by Jack Regan — 3 July 2008 @ 2:00 pmI very much doubt it. These changes would simply be massive and while the Holy Father may want these things I think he gets that if you move too fast, you risk a lot of people falling off. There would also be massive disobedience.
Also, ad orientem was never mandatory even before 1970, was it??
Comment by Jack Regan
It wouldn’t surprise me if things start to happen quickly because:
1. BXVI spent over 20 years in the Vatican before he became pope. He is very smart, aware of the situation in the Church, and has already decided what the Church needs.
2. BXVI made his views known before the conclave. He made no attempt to mislead Cardinals. The result was a quick election to the papacy.
2. BXVI is 81 years old and knows he doesn’t have much time.
3. BXVI is a German, and Germans are given to direct action rather than ducking, weaving and maneuvering.
4. BXVI knows the Church is a mess and knows time is wasting.
5. BXVI thinks that a lot of people have already fallen off, but still are permitted to pretend they are Catholic.
6. BXVI knows there already is massive disobedience.
7. NB: Within a year the Vatican has moved from permitting the use of the 1962 Missal to Cardinal Castrillon saying that plans are for it to be made available in every parish.
Comment by RBrown — 3 July 2008 @ 3:08 pmPersonally I hope the following stays in the Mass:
-Priest facing the congregation (with reverence of course)
-Modern music (if done reverently, appropriately and with good theology)
-Lay readers (including women. As long as lay readers respect and understand the importance of what they’re doing, and do it well)
-Altar girls (ditto)
-EMHCs (when actually needed, and they must be properly trained and they must be committed Catholics)
-Use of the vernacular throughout
-Reception of communion in the hand, while standing (again, if done very reverently)
I will now duck under a table while I am ripped to shreds. By all means, enjoy yourselves!
Comment by Jack Regan
A very simple answer suffices: What you like has been tried and found to be a pastoral flop.
Comment by RBrown — 3 July 2008 @ 3:11 pmWhat you like has been tried and found to be a pastoral flop.
Well that’s a subjective view isn’t it. Personally I don’t think that falling Mass attendance is due to the new Mass, but hey, we’ll probably never agree on that one.
As somebody who works for the Church in a ministry role, I will take whatever the Holy Father decides and try to make it work. I do think that the proposed changes will make it harder though.
Comment by Jack Regan — 3 July 2008 @ 3:32 pmIt wouldn’t surprise me if things start to happen quickly
There would be a split in the Church that would make SSPX look like a minor disagreement. The Holy Father knows that very very well.
This week we were rejoicing about the Transalpine Redemptorists coming back into the Church; a community or… erm… about 20 guys. If the Pope changes the Mass back too much then I firmly believe that tens of millions will leave. I won’t be one of them, but there will be lots.
Comment by Jack Regan — 3 July 2008 @ 3:36 pmIf the Pope changes the Mass back too much then I firmly believe that tens of millions will leave.
Pity Paul VI didn’t think this one through before he changed the mass in 1969.
Comment by Ottaviani — 3 July 2008 @ 3:49 pmWell that’s a subjective view isn’t it. Personally I don’t think that falling Mass attendance is due to the new Mass, but hey, we’ll probably never agree on that one.
What’s subjective about empty churches, seminaries, and religious houses? What’s subjective about Baptized Catholics rejecting doctrine?
As somebody who works for the Church in a ministry role, I will take whatever the Holy Father decides and try to make it work. I do think that the proposed changes will make it harder though.
Comment by Jack Regan
Harder how?
Comment by RBrown — 3 July 2008 @ 3:49 pm“There would be a split in the Church”. I’m sure similar threats were made before Summorum Pontificum.
Comment by Habemus Papam — 3 July 2008 @ 4:02 pmHarder how?
Do you work in a pastoral field?
What’s subjective about empty churches, seminaries, and religious houses?
The cause!
Pity Paul VI didn’t think this one through before he changed the mass in 1969.
No, he didn’t. And he was wrong to push things through so quickly. But two wrongs don’t make a right.
Comment by Jack Regan — 3 July 2008 @ 4:03 pm*“There would be a split in the Church”. I’m sure similar threats were made before Summorum Pontificum.*
But SP didn’t force changes on people. Rather, it made the EF available to those who wanted it.
Comment by Jack Regan — 3 July 2008 @ 4:04 pmThere would be a split in the Church that would make SSPX look like a minor disagreement. The Holy Father knows that very very well.
This week we were rejoicing about the Transalpine Redemptorists coming back into the Church; a community or… erm… about 20 guys. If the Pope changes the Mass back too much then I firmly believe that tens of millions will leave. I won’t be one of them, but there will be lots.
Comment by Jack Regan
You sound like Neville Chamberlain
Comment by RBrown — 3 July 2008 @ 4:07 pmNo Jack Regan, the EF is not available to those who want it. Novus Ordo Bishops have seen to that. It would not surprise me at all that, having witnessed their truculance at first hand the Holy Father is about to come down hard on those who disobey him.
Comment by Habemus Papam — 3 July 2008 @ 4:10 pmJeez… are you really comparing the Holy Father’s plans with the