In New Jersey

I am with the excellent Fr. Pasley of Mater Ecclesiae.  After my arrival in Philadelphia, we had a nice supper and came back to the parish.  Some priests came over and we talked about the sorts of things priests tend to talk about.

Tomorrow will be a hard work day.

In New Jersey
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About Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Fr. Z is the guy who runs this blog. o{]:¬)
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37 Responses to In New Jersey

  1. Matt Q says:

    Glad you’re having a great time, Father. Will pray for you and your deadlines.

    Have you had any updates yet on PJ? Hope all’s well. :)

  2. Paul Rimmer says:

    What sort of things do Priests tend to talk about? I am ignorant.

  3. Bob says:

    The ones I know tend to gripe about the Pope and Bishop.

  4. Jeff Pinyan says:

    I heard a priest talk about the “campaign” of “Latin literalists” to change the words of the consecration to “for many” instead of “for all”. At Mass a couple of days ago. During the homily.

    Somehow, I think your circle of priests is of a different breed from the circle that lives in my area.

  5. Bob K. says:

    The only thing they may want to change is the filioque. A nice gesture to are Eastern bretheran.

  6. Bob K. says:

    Father find out how the implementation of Summorum Pontificum is taking place in Novus Ordo parishes around the Philadelphia and Camden Archdioceses. You may get depressed. Wish I was there!.

  7. bryan says:

    Bob K:

    Yes, it is depressing. I had to leave the parish I’m geographically in after listening to
    3 weeks, during Advent, worth of the pastor railing against SP with such words as ‘luddite’,
    ‘regressive traditionalists’ and why the Holy Father should be more concerned with listening
    to the counsel of the VoTF and CTA wackos than parishoners who wanted to worship in a ‘long-dead’
    language.

    However, there are bright spots in the Philly metro area: St. Vincent dePaul in Yardville
    NJ has a regular celebration on the first Sunday at 3PM (the 8AM Mass tomorrow (feast of the
    Assumption) will be in the EF). Certainly, there are other parishes (I know of the one in
    Norrisville and one in North Philly that regularly offer the EF) that are bucking the
    happy-clappy tendencies in most suburban parishes I’ve attended over the past 30 years.

    Brick by brick, brother. Rome wasn’t built in a day, and turning this big ship of Faith
    won’t happen on a dime. But, the direction the bow is pointing is changing, regardless of
    the resistance of the old guard in their wornout tug boats.
    back on course won’t happen in a week. While I share your frustration,

  8. Dorothy says:

    Note to bryan:
    The Holy Day EF Mass tomorrow at St. Vincent DePaul in Yardville NJ will be
    at 8:30am. God bless Fr. Stanley Krzyston for the generous addition of this
    Mass to our regular Holy Day schedule!

  9. bryan says:

    Dorothy:

    Correction gratefully acknowledged. I believe Fr. Edward Kelty will be assisting…fwiw.

  10. june says:

    Fr. John Zuhlsdorf—I don’t want encourage any sort
    of pride, just to encourage you to thank God for the
    gift he has given you.( which you most likely already
    do)Recently, I read a few of your Wanderer posts, and
    God has blessed you! Your writing is excellent.

  11. Avus says:

    Another little-known bright spot in Philly is Our Lady of Lourdes just a couple of blocks from the seminary. The Mercedarians celebrate the EF there every Sunday morning at 7:30. It\’s a quiet Mass – no lay responses and no music. The priest has consistently the best sermons we\’ve ever heard. He even talks about sin, Hell and damnation! Imagine that!

    Their following Mass is a solemn sung Latin version of the OF as VCII intended it. I haven\’t been to that one yet so I can\’t comment on it.

  12. Bob K. says:

    Well their are no EF Masses within 20 miles where I live, so the next best thing is a local Orthodox Church. I refuse to sit through happy/clappy Masses. And in my opinion as Cardinal Hoyas would put it “Every Parish” should be making an effort either for the Latin Mass or the Reform of the Reform!. Bring back the Gregorian Chant in both forms of the Mass!!. And get rid of all those unnecessary Extra-Ordinary Eucharistic Ministers and Altar girls!. We never had them for over a thousand years and we don’t need them now!.

  13. Bob K. says:

    It is very sad when I have to buy a CD to hear music that should be used during the Ordinary Form of the Mass. I mean “Chant”. A huge hit in Europe and America by the Cistercian Monks. And it is even more sad when the only Catholic Shop in the area St Judes in Willowgrove, is playing Gospel and contemporary music in their store and not this popular CD or even choir music. Heck they don’t even carry any EF Missals.

  14. Bob K. says:

    Sorry for burning off some steam!. But when I have been reading about the Catholic Church in the UK and the unnecessary closing of Latin Mass parishes. I get the same vibes hear in the US. No respect at all for the Popes wishes from the clergy. I get pretty ticked off.

  15. Heck they don’t even carry any EF Missals.

    Wouldn’t they stock them if people asked for them? Surely most stores, including Catholic book stores, stock to meet demand. Seriously, it might be a favor to others to mention to the clerk that you’d buy a 1962 missal if available, rather than walking silently disappointed out of the store, leaving its staff none the wiser.

  16. Their following Mass is a solemn sung Latin version of the OF as VCII intended it.

    I know what you mean, and assume you don’t really believe that the Fathers of Vatican II envisioned that there would now be some “new order” of Mass that might be called the “ordinary form”.

  17. Matt @ says:

    Henry Edwards wrote:

    “Wouldn’t they stock them if people asked for them? Surely most stores, including Catholic book stores, stock to meet demand. Seriously, it might be a favor to others to mention to the clerk that you’d buy a 1962 missal if available, rather than walking silently disappointed out of the store, leaving its staff none the wiser.”

    )(

    Perhaps, Henry, but necessarily. Stores often have their own agenda as well. For instance, Barnes and Noble will books by Pat Bucccanan but put them at the back of the store, not up front where any new release or top-seller would go. This has been the complaint of conversatives for years but since a business has a right to do what it wants in the regard, not much else to do. It would then follow that a liberal Catholic bookstore refusing to carry a Tridentine Missal is not surprising at all. Disappointing, yes, but but surprising.

    I you haven’t gotten it already, mail-order your Missal. Go to Baronius’ website and get it from them. They have distribution center here in the United States, so it would be easier to get.

  18. Avus says:

    EF Missals!? I\’d be happy if they\’d carry the D-R Bible! Look in any Catholic bookstore and you\’ll see rows of modern bibles and even scores of King James, but nary a Douey-Rheims, the only true Cathlic bible. Whenever I ask about it I just get a blank look because they can\’t comprehend why anyone would want it.

  19. John Enright says:

    Our Lady of Lourdes at 63rd St. and Lancaster Ave. along the Main Line is great. Lots of Common Pleas Court and U.S. District Court Judges live in the area, and many are members of that parish. I’ve been to the EF there; it is beautiful. Here’s a Youtube video of part of the EF Mass at Our Lady of Lourdes. The immediate area of the Church is very well maintained; going a couple of blocks in any direction, however, is an invitation for disaster.

  20. Bob K. says:

    Quote “EF Missals!? I’d be happy if they’d carry the D-R Bible! Look in any Catholic bookstore and you’ll see rows of modern bibles and even scores of King James, but nary a Douey-Rheims, the only true Cathlic bible. Whenever I ask about it I just get a blank look because they can’t comprehend why anyone would want it.”

    And who is to blame for that!?. Our liberal Carismatic Mass loving clergy!. Thank God for the Eastern Churches both Catholic and Orthodox!. And I do have the Angelus Press 1962 Missal as well as the Haydock (D_R)Bible. The Missal is only used for reference now, since their is now local Church where I can use it fully. I have gotten a few Orthodox prayer books and Psalter, which I now find more useful in my present situation. Maybe God wants me to become an Eastern Christian!. Since I have been going to this Orthodox Church frequently for over 10 years now. I have been constantly holding off converting thinking traditional Catholicism would return to my locality. But it is more dismal by the year. I live in Quakertown PA.

  21. Bob K. says:

    Quote: “EF Missals!? I’d be happy if they’d carry the D-R Bible! Look in any Catholic bookstore and you’ll see rows of modern bibles and even scores of King James, but nary a Douey-Rheims, the only true Cathlic bible. Whenever I ask about it I just get a blank look because they can’t comprehend why anyone would want it.”

    They don’t even carry the RSV Catholic Edition. Just NABs and KJV for their Gospel/Contemporary Music sharing protestant brothers.

  22. Bob K. says:

    Quote: “Whenever I ask about it I just get a blank look because they can’t comprehend why anyone would want it.

    Similar look I got when I asked the lady at the rectory of Our Lady of Mount Carmel in Doylestown if the priests would ever consider having a Tridentine Mass. She looked at me strange and said “what is a Tridentine Mass”.

  23. Bob K. says:

    Then these same liberal Catholics say. Were similar to the Orthodox Church. And I say Yeah Right!!. Your not even close!. Only traditional Catholics are.

  24. Anne Scanlon says:

    Bob K.

    Don’t know where you live….but there is a Catholic bookstore in So. Pines NC ( called All Things Sacred) where you will find 1962 missals, D R and DR haydock bibles and Ignatius RSV along with many other orthodox resources….

  25. Bob K. says:

    My point is what good is it having a 1962 Missal, D-R Bible, all things traditional etc.. When the Catholic Churches around you don’t even care on bit about tradition!. Sure after the Second Vatican Council they were all in a rush to do away with tradition. To foster better relations with the Protestants, who speak today of untold heresies. Women Priests, Bishops, homosexual and lesbian clergy, same sex marriages. Sure lets have good relations with them. Not with the Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox who also defend tradition!. And why is it taking so long to full unity with the Traditional Anglicans who are pleading to be with us. God forbid if we bring more tradition back into the Church. We want are Carismatic Masses, like the Pentecostals, and all kinds of women around the altar giving out Holy Communion at Mass, in the hand of all places. Yeah real traditional!!.

  26. Michael R. says:

    Bob K.:

    There are Byzantine Catholic churches in Allentown, Bethlehem, Pottstown and Warrington. I’m pretty sure that some of them are (just barely)within 20 miles of Quakertown.

  27. Bob K. says:

    And we get the excuse that this will all take time. In my lifetime!!. It took twenty years to completely reverse things. Will this now take forty years to bring it all back to where it should have been. I hope the current Pope lives to 120 years old to see it!. Because our next Pope may be a liberal who will bring back the Kumbaya with open arms from our current liberal clergy!. Who now dominates!.

  28. Bob K. says:

    Quote: “There are Byzantine Catholic churches in Allentown, Bethlehem, Pottstown and Warrington. I’m pretty sure that some of them are (just barely)within 20 miles of Quakertown.”
    None of them that I know of offer Vespers, like the Orthodox do!. They do the same things that liberal Roman Catholics do. Have two Sunday Liturgies, one on Saturday and one on Sunday. The local Orthodox Church I go to has Vespers on Saturday and before all Holy Days. The Orthos and Divine Liturgy is done only on Sunday and Holy Days, like it should be. I prefer this liturgical schedule, it seems more Orthodox!. Not like a drive through!. Pick what day you want Sunday Mass/Liturgy. Plus the Orthodox Church I go to is but 10 minutes away. St Phillips in Souderton PA. Very nice people, and two very conservative priests who are always there when you need them. They always welcome me when they see me. I used to go to a Byzantine Mission Parish, But the good old Diocese decided to shut it down, the priest later converted to Orthodoxy. He was one of the best priests that I knew. He now is a pastor of a growing Orthodox Church in NJ. Nothing against Byzantine Churches, but the one in Warrington, which is the closest has two Sunday liturgies, I’m not keen on that. They should have Vespers on Saturday and Orthos then Divine Liturgy on Sunday. Allot of Roman Catholics I know of don’t even know what Vespers or Orthos are. Their so used to saying the LOTH at home in private. Whatever happened to the Benedictines, etc offering Vespers with Gregorian chant?.

  29. Bob K. says:

    Vespers with Gregorian chant. Did that tradition get lost to with Vatican 2.

  30. Bob K. says:

    Sorry for being such a grouch!!.

  31. Matt Q says:

    Bob K wrote:

    “And we get the excuse that this will all take time. In my lifetime!!. It took twenty years to completely reverse things. Will this now take forty years to bring it all back to where it should have been. I hope the current Pope lives to 120 years old to see it!. Because our next Pope may be a liberal who will bring back the Kumbaya with open arms from our current liberal clergy!. Who now dominates!”

    Bob, I have a feeling this is exactly what the creepy clergy is hoping for, to outlast this Pope. This is why it’s so critical for him to issue a mandate or some sort of dictum so that his changes more or less are mandated.

    The Tridentine Mass was never done away with. So much of what our Pope is doing is merely putting a stop to the forty-year nonsense, and no major theological issues need examining–except that of the Novus Ordo. For another Pope to come along and undo any of this, he would have to bend over backward, twist through hoops and make all kinds of contortions and specious theological arguments to justify them.

    In any case, perhaps Archbishop Burke will become the first American Pope and he then can solidify the re-embrace of Tradition. In the end, as God wills.

  32. mysticalrose says:

    Bob K. — The Catholic Shop in Willow Grove was bought out by protestants a few years ago. They don\’t carry some of the most fundamental Catholic things there now. I think the shop in Norristown — on main street a few blocks up from Holy Saviour is still Catholic. Also, you are right about the depressing lack of implementation of the MP in Philly. I cannot understand it — Cardinal Rigali is such a great bishop. Perhaps he\’s waiting until priests receive training? Or perhaps there really isn\’t interest here?? At least there is a TLM at Mt. Carmel and Lourdes is beautiful.

  33. Anna says:

    I have been fortunate to be at a few priest ‘gatherings’. My parish priest loves to have seminarians and other priests over for social gatherings. These have been some of the most enjoyable, thought provoking conversations of my life. Fr. Z, if you are ever in the Cincinnati/Indianapolis area, let me know, I would love to be at a social gathering with you and Fr. W!

  34. Bob K et al:

    For your consideration…

    Advocatus Diaboli: Prelude

  35. Bob K. says:

    Well maybe instead of being my own worst enemy, I’ll stick with going to the local Orthodox Church and learn more about Byzantine Christianity. And forget about expressing my views. I wouldn’t want to damage the cause of Tradition in the Roman Catholic Church.

  36. Josiah Ross says:

    I’m from Our Lady of lourdes. It’s a great parish. All male altar servers, a fantastic choir, and great preaching.There are photos of various masses and celebrations in the OF and EF here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jdtreat/collections/72157600061749935/
    Here are photos of the Latin novus ordo mass from easter day: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jdtreat/sets/72157604213133984/

  37. Tom says:

    Josiah:
    Thanks for those links.
    Bob K.:
    I am curious to which Orthodox Church you are attending; Greek, Russian or other? Your comments are interesting to me since I have known of people that have gone to the OC for the same reasons. In general I have found the OC to have a more traditional liturgy than the Byzantines. Having an Orthodox wife and having been attending Mater Ecclesiae for many years now, I can very clearly see the common ancient heritage of the two liturgies and how the traditional Mass matches up so well with a properly celebrated liturgy of St. John Chrysostom. In fact, you make good point that the modernists in the church are not interested in real ecumenism with the East as the pope is currently engaged. Why would they? They don’t have any of the nonsense of the NO: extraordinary ministers, altar girls, etc.
    Only you can decide if attending the OC is a long term solution. I certainly understand completely why you are going this route but unless you completely convert I don’t believe you will be considered in “Good Standing” and as a consequence have access to the sacraments. They are not without their own problems either; I don’t know if this is problem where you are going but those coming to DL tend to drift in without regard to the starting time which makes it distracting for those that are there for Orthos and the beginning of DL.