Request for Propers

13 Responses to Request for Propers

1. George Festa says:

   26 November 2008 at 4:03 pm

   Dear Fr.Z:
   Since St. John Neumann falls within “In Epiphania Domini” I can not locate his proper in my Liturgia horarum (c.1961)14 Jan. [Sancte Hillarii} the first Saint there. Since St. Elizabeth Ann Seton became a saint in 1975, my old Liturgia horarum is of no help either.

   A good site where you may find this information is:
   The Roman Breviary

   If you need a Mass proper for St. John Neumann I have a 1970 Missale Romanum in both English and Latin which may be of help.
2. George Festa says:

   26 November 2008 at 4:11 pm

   Dear Fr.Z:

   Sorry for the sloppy link, here it is again:

   The Roman Breviary
3. George Festa says:

   26 November 2008 at 4:16 pm

   Fr. Z:
   Found St. John Neumann Under Die 16 maii. I will e-mail this to you as it requires much typing and I do not have a scanner.

   In Christ,
   G.Festa
4. Andreas says:

   26 November 2008 at 7:03 pm

   Fr. Z:

   How do you look it up?

   I have the Latin Liturgia Horarum, but neither name appears under the “index celebrationum” in any of the four volumes. January 4 has no entry: which should be her feast day. John Neumann’s name does not show even in the Martyrologium Romanum. So I am completely lost. If someone tells me where to find these prayers I’ll be glad to type them up.
5. Dr. Lee Fratantuono says:

   26 November 2008 at 7:50 pm

   Ss. Elisabeth and John were beatified in the 1960s and given proper Offices for use in certain locales; the now famous 1964 Roman Breviary in English gives them in an Appendix.

   Both were canonized in the 1970s and inserted in the “new” calendar for the entire USA. The American breviary of 1975 has them in an Appendix.

   I imagine Latin originals exist (for both “old” and “new”), but I have never seen them.
6. Geoffrey says:

   26 November 2008 at 9:30 pm

   I am guessing the Latin originals (for the Liturgy of the Hours) were never published in anything other than the official journal of the CDW (I forget the name) since they are local propers, which were probably immediately translated by ICEL.
7. Dr. Lee Fratantuono says:

   26 November 2008 at 9:52 pm

   You are thinking of Notitiae…regrettably, these texts never appeared there (since they were part of the “original” post-conciliar proper, rather than additions thereto). Cf. Blessed Kateri Tekakwitha, whose Latin oration was published in Notitiae in 1980 (she was never given a proper reading for the Office).
8. George Festa says:

   26 November 2008 at 10:16 pm

   In II Nocturno

   Lectio iv

   Ioannes Nepomuci Bohemiae oppido, unde Nepomuceni cognomen duxit, a parentibus aetate provectis, non sine futurae sanctitis praesagio, flammis supra nascentis domum mirabiliter collucentibus, ortus est. Cum infans in gravem morbum incidisset, beataeVirginis ope, cui natum parentes referebant, acceptum e vitae periculo evasit incolumis. Egregia indole, piaque institutione caelestibus indiciis obsequente inter sanctas religiosasque exercitationes pueritiam egit nam ecclesiam frequenter adire ac sacerdotibus ad aras operantibus ministrare in deliciis habebet Zatecii politioribus litteris ad humanitatem informatus Pragae vero gravioribus disciplinis excultus philosophiae theologiae sacrorumque canonum magisterium et lauream emeruit. Sacerdotio initiatus atque a scientia Sanctorum ad lucra
   animarum rite comparatus ministerio verbi Dei
   se penitus addixit. Cum igitur in vitiis exstirpandis et revocandis in viam salutis errantibus eloquentia
   et pietate uberes ederet fructus inter canonicos metropolitanae ecclesiae Pragensis cooptatus mox sibe demandatam. Evangelli coram rege Wenceslao
   quarto praedicandi provinciam suscepit eo successu ut Ioannis suasu multa rex faceret magnoque in honore eius virtutes haberet. Conspicuas tamen quas ille obtulit dignitates Dei survus ne a divini verbi praeconio avocaretur, constantissime recusavit.

   R\ Honestum fecit illum Dominus et custodivit eum ab inimicus et a seducoribus tutavit illum. Et dedit illi claritatem aeternam.
   V\ Descenditque cum illo in foveam et nin vinculis non dereliquit eum. Et.

   Lectio V

   Regiis illum eleemosynis in pauperes erogandis praefectum, Ioanna regina conscientiae sibi moderatorem ascivit. Cum autem Wenceslaus ab officio institutoque decessisset, atque in vitia praeceps abriperetur piae autem coniugis obtestationes et monita gravate ferret contendere ausus sest ut in sacramentali Iudicio sacerdoti credita reginae arcana sibi Ioanne panderentur. At Dei minister blanditiis primum tormentis deinde et carceris squalore tentatus nefariae regis cupiditati fortiter obstitit furentem tamen Wenceslai animum cum ab exsecrando proposito nec humana nec divina iura deterrerent, supremum agonem quem instare sibi athleta Christi noverat, populo in concione de impendentibus admonito, non obscure praenuntiavit. Mox Boleslaviam profectus, ad beatae Virginis imaginem antiquo cultu celebrem, caeleste praesidium ad certandium certandum bonum certamen effusis precibus implorabit. Inde vespere revertentem in pervigilio dominicae Ascensionis rex e fenestra conspicatus arcessit cumque proximam in aquis si obluctari pergeret submersiomem intentaret Ioannes invicta constantia terrores minasque refutavit. Itaque regis imperio in Moldavam flumen Pragam interfluens noctu deiectus illustrem martyrii coronam sest consecutus.

   R\ Desiderium animae eius tribuisti ei, Domine et voluntate labiorum eius non fraudasti eum.

   V\ Quoniam praevenisti eum in benedictionibus dulcednis : posuisti in capite erus coronam de lapide pretioso. Et.

   Lectio VI

   Sacrilegum facinus clam patratum et martyris gloriam insigne prodigium divinitus patefecit. Ubi aenim exanime corpus secundo flumine vehi coepit ardentes faces aquis supernatantes et discurrentes apparuerunt. Quam ob remex arena postridie mane corpus elatum canonici deinde regis iram nihil timentes in metropolitanam ecclesiam solemni pompa intulerunt et sepulturae mandarunt. Cum autem in dies invicti sacerdotis memoria miraculis, et maxima fidelium eorum praecipue qui fama periclitantur veneratione cresceret post annos demum amplius trecentos in iuridica recognitione corporis quod sub humo tamdiu iacuerate lingua eius incorrupta et vivida reperta est qua sexto post anno iudicibus a Sede Apostolica delegatis exhibita novo prodigio repente intumuit, et subobscurum ruborum in purpureum commutavit. His itaque aliisque signis rite probatis Benedictus decimus tertius Pontifex Maximus die decima none mensis martii anno salutis millesimo septingentesimo vigesimo nono, primum hunc sacramentalis sigilli assertorem, arcani fidem sanguine obsignantem, sanctorum Martyrum catalogo adscripsit.

   R\. Stola iucunditatis induit eum Dominus ; Et coronam pulchritudinis posuit super caput eius.

   V\. Cibavit illum Dominus pane vitae et intellectus : et aqua sapientiae salutaris potavit illum. Et. Gloria Patri. Et.

   In III Nocturno

   Lectio sancti Evangelii secundum Matthaeum
   Lectio vii Cap. 10, 26-32

   In illo tempore : Dixit Iesus biscipulis suis: Nihil est opertum quod non revelabitur : et occultum quod non scietur. Et reliqua.

   Homila sancti Hilarii Episcopi

   Comm. in Matthaeum, can.10, post medium

   Dominus diem iudicii ostendit qua abstrusam voluntatis nostrae conscientiam prodet : et ea qua nunc occulata existimantur luce cognitionis publicae deteget. Igitur non minas non consilia non potestates incsectantium monet esse metuendas : quia dies rudicii nulla haec fuisse atque inania revelabit.
   Et quod dico vobis in tenebris dicite in lumine : et quod in aure auditis praedicate super tecta. Non legimus Dominum solitum fuissse noctibus sermocinari et doctrinam in tenebris tradidisse sed quia omnis sermo erus carnalibus tenbrae sunt et verbum eius infidelibus nox est.

   R\. Corona aurea super caput eius. Expressa signo sanctitatis gloria honoris et opus fortitudinis.

   V\. Quoniam praevenisti eum in benedictionibus dulcedinis posuisti in capite eius coronam delapide pretioso. Expressa.

   Lectio viii

   Itaque id quod a se dictum est cum libertate fidei et confessionis vult esse loquendum. Idcirco qua in tenebris dicta sunt praedicari russit in lumine :
   ut quae secreto aurium commissa sunt super tecta id est excelso loquentium praeconio audiantur.

   R\. Hic est vere Martyr qui pro Christi nomine sanguinem suum fudit : Qui minas iudicum non timuit nec terrenae dignitatis gloriam quaesivit sed ad caelestia regna pervenit.

   V\. Rustum deduxit Dominus pervias rectas et ostendit illi regnum Dei.
   Qui Gloria Patri. Qui.

   Lectio ix

   Constanter enim Dei ingerenda cognitio est et profundum doctrinae evangelicae secretum in lumine praedicactionis apostolicae revelandum non timentes eos quibus cum sitlicentia in corpora tamen in animam ius nullam est ; sed timentes potius Deum cui perdendae in gehenna et animae et corpis sit potestas. Te Deum.

   Oratio

   Deus, qui ob invictum beati Ioannes sacramentale silentium nova Ecclesiam tuam martyrii corona decorasti : da nobis eius intercessione et exemplo linguam caute costodire : ac omnia potius mala quam animae detrimentum in hoc sae culo tolerae. Per Dominum.

   Dear Fr. Z : Have a blessed Thanksgiving, we are all very thankful for your excellent blog !
9. Fr. John Zuhlsdorf says:

   27 November 2008 at 9:21 am

   George: Thanks!
10. Fr. John Zuhlsdorf says:

    27 November 2008 at 9:32 am

    I think the reader was asking for the texts for the Novus Ordo office, the Liturgia horarum.
11. Dr. Lee Fratantuono says:

    27 November 2008 at 10:49 am

    What a great effort, to type all those texts! The good result is, the Office typed is a beautiful proper for the martyr of the confessional, which seems appropriate after Father’s recent posts on that sacrament.

    However, the S. John Neumann in question is the American John, the Philadelphia prelate and 19th century luminary…
12. George Festa says:

    28 November 2008 at 1:22 pm

    Dr. Lee:
    Hey, I was only off by ~500 years ! Now I have a new friend in Heaven whose feast day is May 16th.

    As a student of history I am a little embarassed as the
    “Wenceslaus” should have tipped me off. The “Nepomuci” and being from “Bohemiae” are what sealed the deal as both are shared with the 19th century Philadelphia Bishop.
13. Fr. Scott Bailey, C.Ss.R. says:

    28 November 2008 at 6:36 pm

    For the Redemprorist proper texts in Latin for St. John Neumann, C.Ss.R., for the Liturgia Horarum contact:

    Secretary General
    Congregation of the Most Holy Redeemer
    C.P. 2458
    00100 Roma, Italia

    Phone: 39-06-49-490-1
    Fax: 39-06-446-6012
    Email: seg.gen@cssr.com

    I believe it is identical to the general proper.

    Another possible source is the Philadelphia Archdiocesan Liturgical Office.

    For Elizabeth Anne Seton, try contacting the Daughters of Charity at Emmitsburg or the Vincentian Provincialate for assistance.