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4 December 2009

The show down!

CATEGORY: Lighter fare — Fr. John Zuhlsdorf @ 1:05 pm

A little humor…

• • • • • •

30 Comments

What’s funny (or not so funny) is that neither one of them had the right to be there.
Comment by EXCHIEF — 4 December 2009 @ 1:20 pm
hehe
Comment by Jack Hughes — 4 December 2009 @ 1:33 pm
Are we really going to lower the bar on this blog to that of “Birthers”? Really?

I thought this blog was for some more intelligent, enlightened conversation, not this stupid, baseless ad hominem. Not cool. Not funny. Just plain dumb. [Rather like this comment? o{];¬) ]
Comment by jdskyles — 4 December 2009 @ 1:44 pm
jdskyles,

I think you missed the part that said, “A little humor…”

That being said, what’s so unreasonable about a Presidential candidate giving proof of his eligbility for the Presidency under the Constitution? Obama’s created a lot of conspiracy theorists by his strange refusal to put the matter to rest by producing his birth certificate.
Comment by Thomas S — 4 December 2009 @ 1:48 pm
No, President Obama created a lot of conspiracy theorists merely by being Barack Obama and running for president. It was the kookier of his political rivals who then started spinning nutty stories about him being born in Kenya, or him forging his birth certificate, or his renouncing his U.S. citizenship as a child by virtue of having an Indonesian stepfather, or his not being a natural-born citizen because one of his parents wasn’t a U.S. citizen.

There’s nothing strange about someone refusing to release information that no one has any right or need to see. He released his birth certificate, and all attempts to show that it is a forgery have embarrassingly flopped. Showing the original record on which his birth certificate is based is unnecessary and won’t do a thing to silence the Birthers, who will just claim that the original record is a forgery too. There is simply no empirical evidence that can prove to a Birther that President Obama is a natural-born U.S. citizen. However, there is ample political gain for Obama to continue to feed Birther paranoia by refusing to comply with their demands: it enables him to paint his political opponents as insane.
Comment by Jordanes — 4 December 2009 @ 2:10 pm
Oh jeez. Even I dislike just about everything about the guy, but the birther stuff is just stupid.
Comment by JennyZ — 4 December 2009 @ 2:14 pm
“There’s nothing strange about someone refusing to release information that no one has any right or need to see.”

I’m not a “birther,” I think there are plenty of other things that should have disqualified Barry Obama from being elected, but I’m not sure documentation that proves eligibility to hold the office of President of the United States is information that “no one has any right or need to see.”
Comment by Thomas S — 4 December 2009 @ 2:25 pm
To get back on the humor thread…

Did anybody else think for a moment that this woman was Laura Ingraham undercover?
Comment by chironomo — 4 December 2009 @ 3:09 pm
Hmm Maybe

The birther discussion is important on a side note. If we are content with someone who isnt totally honest about himself leading us, what does that say for the rest of us? Its not shallow. Its as american as it is to expect our leaders to be held to a high standard.
Comment by patrick_f — 4 December 2009 @ 3:19 pm
Patrick;

I agree. If I were accused, for instance, of not really having an advanced degree I would simply produce the degree for inspection and say “see…call the school if you want”. If I insisted that I had such a degree, but “you can’t see it because it’s none of your business”, then I would deserve whatever skepticism came my way. Pres. Obama could have easily settled this question by submitting the document to the appropriate official to verify it when the issue first came up. My guess is that there may have been some reason why this couldn’t be done…not necessarily a nefarious reason. Perhaps it had been lost or destroyed and a duplicate had to be produced. Who knows.
Comment by chironomo — 4 December 2009 @ 3:27 pm
Z…ing
Comment by ipadre — 4 December 2009 @ 3:31 pm
Well, it is a good point
Comment by James Locke — 4 December 2009 @ 3:50 pm
Very odd. He spends thousands of dollars fighting people to demand that he produce his long form birth certificate and people wonder why people wonder.

But, it just keeps getting stranger. Now, it turns out that his mother was matriculated, two weeks after his supposed delivery in a Hawaiian hospital, in a university in the State of Washington. This was eleven years before US airlines permitted babies under 6 weeks of age to travel by air.

Sorry, If congress could demand and get hearings on McCain’s eligibility (do to his birth in Panama); and the media could go through Palin’s garbage and ask if the Down baby was really hers…. O’Bama should have to produce enough to shut the birthers up. Then we can address his transcripts, passports, thesis, travels, and dozens of other things we’re not allowed to ask about.
Comment by Tom Ryan — 4 December 2009 @ 4:36 pm
In reply to Thomas S, chironomo, and Tom Ryan . . . .

I’m not sure documentation that proves eligibility to hold the office of President of the United States is information that “no one has any right or need to see.”

He released that documentation, but the conspiracy kooks attacked it with false accusations of forgery. They will do the same things so matter how much additional documentation he might choose to release.

The original copy of his birth record in Hawaii’s archives is, however, something that the average citizen has no right or need to see. His birth certificate, however, is all the documentation needed to prove his eligibility, and it has withstood all the Birthers’ attempts to impeach its legitimacy.

If I insisted that I had such a degree, but “you can’t see it because it’s none of your business”, then I would deserve whatever skepticism came my way.

That’s not, however, what Obama did. In this matter, he has merely refused to play the Birthers’ game. It’s insulting to be held to a higher standard than every other presidential candidate—and the Birthers keep raising the bar every time further evidence appears in answer to their previous accusations.

He spends thousands of dollars fighting people to demand that he produce his long form birth certificate and people wonder why people wonder.

He wouldn’t have to spend any money at all if the Birthers would stop filing frivolous lawsuits. All he has done in each case is have a lawyer file a motion to have the case thrown out for lack of legal standing of the complainant, and each time the judge has granted the motion.

But, it just keeps getting stranger. Now, it turns out that his mother was matriculated, two weeks after his supposed delivery in a Hawaiian hospital, in a university in the State of Washington. This was eleven years before US airlines permitted babies under 6 weeks of age to travel by air.

“Now” it turns out? You talk as if this is something that just came to light. It was in October 2008 that the Birthers first attempted to make use of his mother’s enrollment at the University of Washington.

There is no “supposed” delivery of Barack Obama in a Hawaiian hospital. His birth certificate and the two newspaper birth announcements based on information from the Hawaii Dept. of Public Health all say he was born in Honolulu. The fact that a few months later his mother took him to Washington in no way contradicts the documentation of his birth in Honolulu. Witness attest that she was living in Washington State with her son Barack in 1961:

“On August 4, 1961, at the age of 18, Dunham gave birth to her first child, Barack Obama II.[17] Friends in Washington State recall her visiting with her new baby in 1961.[18][19][20][21][22] By January 1962, she had enrolled at the University of Washington, and was living as a single mother in the Capitol Hill neighborhood of Seattle with her son while her husband continued his studies in Hawaii.[12][19][23][24][25] ”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Dunham
Comment by Jordanes — 4 December 2009 @ 5:14 pm
Jordanes…

I don’t have a “dog in this fight” ... I was merely saying he could have chosen a simpler resolution. To “refuse to play the game” is, in fact, playing the game.

Your insistent support in the face of at least reasonable skepticism (not of his citizenship…that is pretty clear, but of his reasons for not producing the actual documents) is at least as dubious as the Birthers insistent denial of the facts. Why is it so difficult to come out and say.., “Yeah, he could have fixed this problem easily, but he didn’t for some reason”? That’s all I’m saying.
Comment by chironomo — 4 December 2009 @ 5:30 pm
Jordanes,

I hope you will agree that president Obama bears at least some responsibility for fueling this conspiracy theory. Yes, he has released the documentation, but only after a significant delay. Quite frankly, he acted as if he had something to hide so it is not at all suprising that suspicions remain as unfounded as they may be.
Comment by MichaelJ — 4 December 2009 @ 5:45 pm
Remember: It’s funny.
Comment by Fr. John Zuhlsdorf — 4 December 2009 @ 6:10 pm
I wanna see his LSATs.
Comment by boko fittleworth — 4 December 2009 @ 6:17 pm
My son spotted this first, as I left the blog open and he was looking at the birds, which he loves. I spotted this across the room, and had to come over and laugh. It is funny! Humor is always good, especially in this dismal world. Happy Advent!
Comment by kat — 4 December 2009 @ 6:59 pm
I think refusing to release much of anything regarding one’s past rightly conjures sharp questions. In theory, the president of the United States is the final authority on several matters, including the use of military force (which sadly includes thousands of nuclear weapons). Such is an enormous responsibility and it behooves us to know some specific background points on the person seeking to have this authority.

When said person refuses even basic disclosure, many questions can and should be asked.

In any event, that is not the purpose of this posting; however, I am at a loss as to whom Mr. Obama is greeting?
Comment by JonM — 4 December 2009 @ 8:55 pm
JonM:

Not watching TV for the past week, I was nearly as blissfully clueless. That this and Tiger are the only things in the news must mean things are hunky dorey.
Comment by Tom Ryan — 4 December 2009 @ 9:44 pm
Chironomo said: Your insistent support in the face of at least reasonable skepticism (not of his citizenship…that is pretty clear, but of his reasons for not producing the actual documents) is at least as dubious as the Birthers insistent denial of the facts.

“Insistent support” of what or whom? I’m certainly no supporter of President Obama, if that’s what you mean. It’s exactly the
opposite.

I do “support” the legitimacy of his presidency, though (with the caveat that politically I’m a Jacobite monarchist and not a republican at all), since all the available facts support it.

I don’t agree that the skepticism to which you refer is reasonable. Understandable, sure, but not reasonable.

Why is it so difficult to come out and say.., “Yeah, he could have fixed this problem easily, but he didn’t for some reason”?

Because I think he couldn’t have fixed this problem easily. Political smears and claims contrary to evidence and reason cannot be easily answered or overcome. That said, he did “fix” the problem pretty well, as shown by the fact that the overwhelming majority of people aren’t Birthers and regard Birtherism as a form of Flat Earthism.

And yes, I know this entry was intended as humor and tongue-in-cheek. But humor is somewhat in the eye of the beholder. I hope Father isn’t offended that I think the joke fails. [No problem. This just isn’t that important.] After all, Obama has a right to ask for their invitation, but the gatecrashers have no right to see Obama’s original birth record on file in Hawaii. Perhaps the joke was meant to make out the gatecrashers as having even more audacity than anyone could have thought?
Comment by Jordanes — 4 December 2009 @ 10:06 pm
Well, Wikipedia has been cited so this debate is over.

http://www.therightperspective.org/2009/12/02/obama-christian-grandma-at-muslim-hajj/
Comment by Tom Ryan — 4 December 2009 @ 11:06 pm
“Well, Wikipedia has been cited so this debate is over.”

Now THAT’S funny.
Comment by Jordanes — 5 December 2009 @ 2:49 am
It occurs to me that some of the more extended comments here illustrate the way effective humor is based on truth. When people take a genuine side-splitter so methinks-thee-protesteth-too-much seriously, now that’s really funny.
Comment by Henry — 5 December 2009 @ 9:56 am
“effective humor is based on truth.”

Yeah, that’s why the joke fell flat.
Comment by Jordanes — 5 December 2009 @ 6:39 pm
All brith certificates should be public record. My Lord, people want to hide WHO there parents are WHERE they were born.

In any event many of us will never believe he is a legitimate president. He has already accepted the presidency of the UN Security Council which is a US constitutional that is to be treated as treason (A US president is NOT allowed to hold any office outside of the presidency that involves the leadership or ruling of any other country or power. It undermines his supreme oath to only THIS country.)

Barry was most likely born in Hawaii to what at that time were NOT natural born citizens. He is no doubt a citizen now, but not being natural born disqualifies him from being POTUS. Then there his refusals to release his college transcripts. These would be required to work at almost an US company in the position he was educated in. Imagine refusing to provide credentials to a potential employer? Even McDonalds wants to know where you went to school and what you education laevel is. Maybe his college transcripts show he was listed as a foreign student receiving tuition assistance as a citizen of Indonesia.

Obama is another Chester A. Arther, who was a false president who assumed power by lies, white washing his past and stonewalling all attempts for him to confirm his family history. Sound familiar to anyone?

Imagine a candidate walking into a seminary. The candidate is asked for a complete crimial history along with family history to make sure he qualified to be a priest. The priest says “This is private information. You can’t see it.” The seminary says “Thank you for coming, have nice day.”

Then the candidates family says the seminary is being racist for asking for the family history. The seminary says it needs this information so that only the proper people are allowed in the seminary. The seminary does not want convicted pedophiles, etc. The family then says the seminary is crazy in asking for the information and starts labeling any seminary that asks for this information as Catholic Extremists.

A little satire, but it cuts along the same lines.
Comment by moon1234 — 5 December 2009 @ 7:28 pm
Good point, really enjoyed this one. Kudo’s Fr. Z.
Comment by ssoldie — 6 December 2009 @ 5:20 pm
All brith certificates should be public record.

That would make identity theft even easier than it already is. Anyway, Obama released his birth certificate, so in this case there’s no need for the original birth record in Hawaii to be released to the general public.

In any event many of us will never believe he is a legitimate president.

I’m aware of that. There will always be believers in the second shooter too, and there will always be somebody around to insist that Jesus married Mary Magdalene and conceived a son who is the ancestor fo the Merovingian dynasty.

Barry was most likely born in Hawaii

undoubtedly, rather

to what at that time were NOT natural born citizens.

Okay, that’s a new one even to me. I’d not heard there was any question about his mother’s status as a natural born citizen. I’m aware of Donofrio’s theory, but Donofrio doesn’t claim Ann Dunham wasn’t a natural born citizen.
Comment by Jordanes — 6 December 2009 @ 5:44 pm
Well I think its funny. Thank you Father.
Comment by Tina in Ashburn — 7 December 2009 @ 12:29 pm

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4 December 2009

The show down!

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Recent Comments:

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Buy Fr. Z a cup of coffee!

4 December 2009

The show down!

30 Comments

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