Card. Rodriguez speaks to Fishwrap about Curial Reform

22 Comments

1. Robert of Rome says:

   13 July 2014 at 11:09 AM

   Fr Reese expects “earth-shaking reforms” of the Curia. I’ve often wondered why writers sometimes think that “earth-shaking” is a good modifier for “reforms”. What comes to mind when you hear “earth-shaking”? Earthquakes, volcanoes, tsunamis, meteorites: all these shake the earth. I don’t see what’s good about that unless you just want to say “destroy”. Perhaps that’s what Fr Reese really wants.
2. JustaSinner says:

   13 July 2014 at 2:10 PM

   Article is proof of Christ’s guidance of His Church. The Cardinals are clueless on how the Curia works, but are ‘busy’ at reforming it…with what? Who knows until MAYBE December. (I guess they’ll have to pass the reforms for everyone to know what are in the reforms!)
   But Jesus has a sense of humor, that has been proven. After all, He left His Church in the hands of an illiterate, ill-tempered, denying, Jewish fisherman.
3. jmcj says:

   13 July 2014 at 3:47 PM

   Can anyone tell me how making the Pontifical Council for the Laity into a Congregation is going to do anything for anyone, especially the laity? That’s like a bishop whining because some other bishop’s miter is taller than his own!

   Is Rodriguez the best guy the Holy Father can find for advice? He’s a lightweight! Tell him to go back to Honduras where his people are suffering. The more time he spends in Rome instead of at his See, the quicker he’s going to lose the smell of his sheep!
4. e.davison49 says:

   13 July 2014 at 4:02 PM

   THE Card. Maradiaga who was in Washington DC calling for amnesty for his countrymen entering the USA illegally? Isn’t he head of the bishops conference in Honduras? Why isn’t he staying in his own country and fighting for better conditions? Parents – more than likely Catholic – are abandoning their children to human traffickers down there. Are there photos of him at the border?
5. PA mom says:

   13 July 2014 at 4:12 PM

   E.davidson- Right.

   But then maybe that is the reason there is so little economic freedom and opportunity for all of these poor, that they would risk their lives and their children’s lives to get away. Even the Bishops are in on the failed economic structure.
6. Fr. John Zuhlsdorf says:

   13 July 2014 at 4:22 PM

   A Congregation for Laity? What does that signal?

   First, that’s a blow to subsidiarity. Local bishops should be concerned with matters of the laity where they are. That’s why we have pastors in local churches. We need congregations for clergy and bishops because of the monumental screw ups we can be.

   Second, in a time when there are calls for reform, someone wants to make the Roman even bigger and more complicated by adding yet another Congregation.
7. robtbrown says:

   13 July 2014 at 4:34 PM

   There many things going on here, not all of them harmonious.

   There is the opinion that the position of the Secretary of State is such that at times his power usurps that of the Pope. Ditto the Curia, that was unresponsive to Benedict’s attempt at reform of the reform

   There also seems to be a movement that Episcopal conferences usurp not only the authority of the Apostolic See but also individual diocesan bishops.

   Cardinal Gracias’ point about the weakness of national or regional liturgical translations is good.

   On the other hand, his suggestion that a bishop could release a religious from vows contradicts the essence of a religious institute of pontifical right.

   It also smacks of the movement at VATICAN II that religious orders be placed under the authority of local bishop.
8. robtbrown says:

   13 July 2014 at 5:13 PM

   There many things going on here, not all of them harmonious.

   There is the opinion that the position of the Secretary of State is such that at times his power usurps that of the Pope. Ditto the Curia, that was Unresponsive to Benedicts attempt at reform of the reform

   There also seems to be a movement that Episcopal conferences usurp not only the authority of the Apostolic See but also individual diocesan bishops.

   Cardinal Gracias’ point about the weakness of national or regional liturgical translations is good.

   On the other hand, his suggestion that a bishop could release a religious from vows contradicts the essence of a religious institute of pontifical right.

   It also smacks of the movement at VATICAN II that religious orders be placed under the authority of local bishop.
9. robtbrown says:

   13 July 2014 at 5:20 PM

   Iy is hard to miss the delicious irony of Cardinal Rodriguez Maradiaga.

   He is a Salesian from a small, poor nation. He says that a bishop is supposed to be leader of a flock , but he seems to spend a good deal outside his diocese. Who is running the diocese when he is gone? An auxiliary who has no jurisdiction over the flock.

   The Cardinal is the Bishop of a diocese with fewer than 100 priests. That is hardly the formula for intrrnational influence, but papal authority has elevated him to such an international position. I have to wonder whether he is working to undermine that same authority
10. Robbie says:

    13 July 2014 at 5:34 PM

    I thought Pope Francis didn’t approve of “airport bishops”, yet Maradiaga seems to be the very epitome of one. And he has a big mouth as well. This is all so frustrating and depressing.
11. Kathleen10 says:

    13 July 2014 at 6:13 PM

    I am going to apply for a cardinal position. I am a female and that seems to be the most important criteria in the minds of the people who are running our church today, so I’m qualified. When I am installed I will work to change the cardinal-gear from red to blue which is a more flattering color for me. I can’t wear that red.
12. Gratias says:

    13 July 2014 at 6:53 PM

    I note they are called COUNCIL of Cardinals. After Vatican Council II soon to be Saint Paul VI used the Consilium for the reformation of our Liturgy. Council and Consilium sound very similar. This new Council may further confuse people and with its authority and that of the Synod who knows what changes they will pass this time.
13. TWF says:

    13 July 2014 at 11:25 PM

    robtbrown:
    Devolution of certain administrative procedures / authority from the Roman Curia to the national episcopal conferences isn’t necessarily an “usurpation” of the authority of the Apostolic See. History will tell you that the Roman Curia gradually usurped the role of ancient provincial and national synods. The election of bishops is a prime example – it is only in the last one or two centuries that the Roman Curia has selected the vast majority of the world’s bishops. (I say vast majority as the Holy Synods of Eastern Catholic Churches of Patriarchal and Major Archepiscopal rank still retain the right to elect their own bishops within their canonical territories).

    In terms of the Cardinal’s influence, since when do numbers matter in terms of Church precedence? Regardless, a flock of 1.5 million is nothing to scoff at – and he is also metropolitan of a larger province (the other dioceses of Honduras). Keep in mind that Latin America has a MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH more serious priest shortage than the USA or Canada, in many regions…according to Catholic-hiearchy.org the Cardinal has one priest for every 11 000 faithful.

    In general, there are a lot of flippant remarks directed towards His Eminence in this thread. I don’t necessarily agree with everything he has said, but he remains a Cardinal of the Holy Roman Church, a successor of the Apostles, and one of the Holy Father’s most senior advisers.
14. Johnno says:

    14 July 2014 at 4:53 AM

    One can pretty mush predict what is going to occur at the October Synod. We’ll get some lame vague document that can be interpreted as changing Church teachings (unless you read it with a hermeneutic of continuity yuk yuk), that places more power in the hands of local bishops to do what thou wilt. I doubt any of these dopes care about marriage or divorce of communion. It’s about using the remarried as an excuse for a power grab. Incrementally they intend to come up with more problems (liberal sins) that need fixing (reform) to which decentralizing away from Rome and the Pope (collegiality) becomes the solution which will allow them to get away with denying Catholic immemorial teachings.
15. PA mom says:

    14 July 2014 at 6:07 AM

    I did not mean to be flippant. The willful breaking of my country’s sovereignty is not a light subject for me, nor is the death and suffering of the people attempting it.

    It also troubles me that someone with an average of a single priest per 11,000 faithful would be given so much consultation. That is not the track record we should be looking to emulate worldwide.

    As to a Congregation for Laity, what on earth would they do? Schedule Mom and Tot meetings globally? Encourage home prayer groups? Handle marriage prep programs ( no, that would have to do with the sacraments)? Muck about creating forums on the topic of married life?

    Wouldn’t they end up more likely a political movement front? More social justice, more ecology…

    Holiness for everyone, it seems to me, happens most naturally with the deSales approach. Priests and bishops understanding what it looks like and how it functions within the laity and helping gently guide individuals through it to the end.
16. robtbrown says:

    14 July 2014 at 7:53 AM

    TWF

    I have no problem with decentralization in certain matters.

    On the other hand, your example of the naming of bishops is not good. The Terna is locally produced with consultation with the laity, priests, the respective metropolitan,and the National Episcopal conference. The Roman Curia is almost always bound by that Terna.

    You might recall that for some years Card Bernadin was the prime factor in who became a bishop in the US. Many of his men were doctrinally non committal like him, cf Americanism
    And it is no secret that he pushed Archbishop Kelly for New York. JPII said no thank you and selected John O’Connor. Perhaps you would have preferred Kelly, but I am grateful for Cardinal O’Connor.

    Would you have wanted local selection of bishops in nations that were Soviet controlled? if so, it likely would have created the situation found among the Orthodox, whose bishops were compromised by the KGB.

    You also seem unaware of how bishops are named in Switzerland.

    More later
17. ppb says:

    14 July 2014 at 10:12 AM

    I went over to read the article at Fishwrap with some trepidation; however, I didn’t really find much in the article that raised big alarm bells for me. I would also have some concerns about decentralization in favor of the regional episcopal conferences, as others have noted; but I’m not sure I would be against some of the other proposed reforms, such as limiting priests to 5 year terms in the Curia and reducing the number of curial officials who are ordained bishops. I suppose one could debate the benefits and drawbacks of such changes. A Congregation for Laity? I’m not sure that would make much difference. In short, I didn’t find the proposals quite as “earth-shaking” as Fr. Reese did, to my relief.
18. robtbrown says:

    14 July 2014 at 10:54 AM

    As said previously, the Terna is locally produced. The nunzio submits it to the congregation of bishops, whose composition is about half Curia and half Diocesan who come to Rome for the meeting. My understanding is that the congregation submits the terna to the Pope with a recommendation, and he of course has the option of taking the recommendation, taking another name from the terna, or select another name.

    It is different with Switzerland, where the cathedral chapter submits the list. Germany has a similar situation. Benedict wanted Gerhard Mueller to take over in Cologne, but the German bishops did not want him. And so he took over at the Holy Office.

    BTW, the Swiss Parish Council hires and fires the pastor.

    BTW2, the church in Switzerland is all but supine
19. robtbrown says:

    14 July 2014 at 11:36 AM

    TFW,

    Reviewing what I wrote above about Cardinal Rodriguez, I found nothing flippant.

    My point remains. He has no great record of pastoral success. The fact that Central America has a deficiency of Vocations indicates that any efforts he has made to improve the situation in his own diocese have fallen flat.

    Some of his comments seem typical of theology that was fashionable in the decade of the 70’s, which as someone said here, went out with disco music. I have to wonder whether he is simply out of touch.

    BTW, 5 year terms are already the norm in the Curia, no matter what the position. Every 5 years Cardinal Ratzinger would resign, and the Pope told him to forget it
20. jonh303 says:

    14 July 2014 at 12:50 PM

    Fr. Z, I suppose you would have given them if you wanted to already, but I’d be interested in your thoughts on this one. This just seems to be a further deviation from the classical view that your most virtuous (in theory the bishops), and best among you should be leading. If someone has been in the curia for a long time, it should mean that they know what they are doing and were never terminated. Those same folks would have better insight into what a universal form of the liturgy would look like than a collection of diocesan committee members meeting (by airplane) one a year would…
21. HighMass says:

    14 July 2014 at 2:12 PM

    Not to be judgemental, but this cardinal is really a worry…..besides getting jabs at Pope Benedict, seems to also be another one of those progressive bishops…..

    God Help Us.
22. Quanah says:

    14 July 2014 at 3:06 PM

    On the whole, it wasn’t as bad as I thought it would be. I expected worse from the Fishwrap. Concerning a Congregation for Laity, I agree with Fr. Z that “local bishops should be concerned with matters of the laity where they are.” I wonder though about the growing number of various secular institutes, lay movements, third orders, etc. and the number of laity joining these. The structures for most of these are international like religious orders and if they haven’t already they will probably surpass religious brothers and sisters in numbers. The Discalced Carmelite Order like most orders has been losing vocations over the past few decades, but the Secular Discalced Carmelites have been growing internationally by leaps and bounds. It is expected that as the biological solution takes greater effect more and more of the work of Carmel will be taken up by the seculars. The more work taken on by the laity the greater their influence and unfortunately the greater their screw-ups.

Comments are closed.