What Does The Prayer Really Say?

CNN: Online churches draw believers and critics

Fr. John Zuhlsdorf — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 04:37:15 +0000

Catholics have a very immediate and personal experience of sacraments. We know we have to be there.

But there are different kinds of presence, aren’t there. A person can be present at, say, Holy Mass, and yet have his mind a thousand miles any. A person might with great longing desire to be present at Holy Mass, and yet physically be a a thousand miles away. Through technology we are have a kind of presence with events which are taking place live.

We cannot receive Holy Communion unless we are physically present, but can make spiritual communions. We cannot be confirmed unless we are physically present or receive absolution unless we are physically present where the sacraments are celebrated, but we can beg forgiveness and ask God for strength anywhere. Not the same thing, but not nothing. We must be physically present to be ordained or be anointed or be baptized: period. There are possibilities about marriage at some distance, but this is very rare.

In this week’s issue of the UK’s Catholic Herald I have a piece about the need for dioceses to have a point man for ministry on the internet, a Vicar for Online Ministry.

Then I read this.

This is from the site of CNN with my emphases and comments.

Online churches draw believers, critics
By Anne Hammock, CNN
November 15, 2009—Updated 1418 GMT (2218 HKT)

(CNN)—Hjalti á Lava was searching his iPhone for a Bible app when he stumbled across Church Online, a service of Web site LifeChurch.tv. Soon he was regularly logging into the Oklahoma-based cyber-church—some 4,100 miles away from á Lava’s home in the Faroe Islands, west of Norway. [And it wasn’t a Catholic site, was it.]

"It allows me to connect with others and have conversations about the message," says á Lava, who shares his faith with other believers in the site’s live chat room. "Technology allows us today to have fellowship across borders and cultures."

In doing so, á Lava joined growing numbers of Christians worldwide who are migrating from the chapel to the computer. A map on the Church Online site showed users from 22 countries logged into a recent service. [And let us not deceive ourselves: some of them are Catholic. Some of them, looking for something, would resonate with a Catholic message.]

Online religious services offer convenience to those who are too isolated or infirm to attend a real-world church. But can worshipping via a computer offer true spiritual fulfillment? ["Fulfillment"? It depends on how you define that. Something, sure. Everything? No.]

Internet pastors and parishioners cite their 24-hour access to interactive tools and social-networking platforms to show their online experiences are as meaningful as those that take place with face-to-face congregations. [As meaningful? I wonder. Different, but "as meaningful"?]

"We were blown away at how people could actually worship along [online]," says Craig Groeschel, senior pastor at LifeChurch.tv. "The whole family will gather around the computer, and they’ll sing and they’ll worship together. Instead of trying to get people to come to a church, we feel like we can take a church to them."

But critics believe virtual worship separates followers from a trinity of spiritual essentials found in brick-and-mortar Christian churches: community, Communion and connection with Christ.

"Online church is close enough to the real thing to be dangerous," ["dangerous"] says Bob Hyatt, a pastor who leads the brick-and-mortar Evergreen Community Church in Portland, Oregon. In a blog post for ChristianityToday.com, he writes that calling it virtual church "gives people the idea that everything they need is available here."

The debate is an extension of a wider argument over social interaction in virtual environments versus the physical world. But because practices of faith are involved, both sides are deeply invested in the outcome, seeing it as a statement on the nature of the Christian person’s relationship with God.

Supporters of online churches have a common response to their skeptics: Try before you criticize. The virtual experience goes far beyond using live chat rooms to exchange emoticons instead of hugs and handshakes, they say.

Links allow congregants to "raise their hand" and publicly commit to Christ, [So, basically evangelical funamentalists are getting into this. What are we doing as Catholics?] while prayer requests and one-on-one guidance are a click way. [Okay!] Sermon notes can be shared and discussed. And many online churches are aided by volunteers, allowing them to hold services several times each day.

The Internet campus [!] of the Flamingo Road Church in Cooper City, Florida, pulls in more than 2,000 congregants from around the world during its Sunday services. [!] Pastor Doug Gramling said his three children are part of the Internet generation that will eventually decide the future of worship. They use Web tools to stay in constant connection with friends over vast distances, which Gramling says "gives me confidence that it can happen in online church."

But the disconnect from physical closeness is what Hyatt said he’s "fighting hardest against." His own church offers online extensions such as podcasts and forums. But he believes "the computer screen is a supplement, not a replacement."

Hyatt and other critics are particularly distressed by the online offering of traditional sacraments, such as Communion and baptism. He believes it is "ridiculous" that someone can grab grape juice and a cracker from the fridge and watch a computer screen, thinking they are truly participating in a gathering of the faithful. [Yah, and from a Catholic point of view, that is pretty crazy. But try to explain why that isn’t okay from an evangelical point of view. ]

"Something about the physical presence, breaking the same bread, is what Communion is meant to be," he says.

But Church Online participant Donna Cole disagrees.

"Knowing that others are also celebrating Communion, regardless of location, [note how subjective this is] makes it an especially wonderful time," says Cole, who believes real-world Communion can ring hollow. "When I’ve taken Communion in live surroundings, I often got the sense that it was ritualistic and without meaning." [Feelings drive a lot of this.]

Matthew Bailey, a parishioner in the Franktown United Methodist Church in Virginia, believes that the meaning of the ritual is what matters.

"If people are willing to go to the trouble of giving their own Communion, then it is quite probably ‘real’ for them," he says. While Bailey chooses to remain at his face-to-face church, he believes any person "faithfully attending an online church service, is being more proactive, and thus probably more attentive, than many longtime churchgoers."

Douglas Estes, lead pastor of Berryessa Valley Church in San Jose, California, and author of "SimChurch," a book about Internet church services, would like to see this debate go away.

"The Bible sees church not as a man-made building but as a people gathered to glorify God with their lives," he says. Estes believes the quality of a community should be judged by the spiritual fellowship it offers.

"There is only one substantive difference between an online church and a brick-and-mortar church: The place where they meet."

Discuss!

Post from: WDTPRS

CNN: Online churches draw believers and critics

PODCAzT 94: PART II - 40 years ago… Paul VI on the eve of the Novus Ordo

Fr. John Zuhlsdorf — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 01:04:37 +0000

Based on your response to PODCAzT 93, and my own desire to drill more deeply into the issue, we welcome back as our guest Pope Paul VI (+1978).

In the last PODCAzT we explored Paul’s General Audience of 26 November 1969, a few days before the Novus Ordo Missae went into force. This time we turn the clock back one more week to his General Audience of 19 Nov 1969 when he begins to address the changes people were about to experience.

We are coming up on the 40th Anniversary of the implementation of the Novus Ordo in the Latin Church.

That was Forty years ago on 30 Nov 1969 . It was the 1st Sunday of Advent.

We are facing our own challenges today, with changes to the English translation and also the reintegration of the pre-Conciliar form of Mass in the life of the Church, thanks to Benedict XVI’s Summorum Pontificum.

The questions Pope Paul asked back in 1969 are valid for us as well.

You will hear Paul Paul’s General Audience text along with my commentary.

Be careful if you have headphones or earphones... the beginning is a bit jarring. I meant it to be jarring.

Post from: WDTPRS

PODCAzT 94: PART II - 40 years ago… Paul VI on the eve of the Novus Ordo

If you liked the communion host PEZ dispenser, your gonna flip over this!

Fr. John Zuhlsdorf — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 23:13:59 +0000

I am not making this up.

A reader sent a note with the simple message…. "I’ll see your Communion Host dispenser... and raise you…."

"... pre-filled Communion cups and wafers!"

Yes, folks, we can now beat that pesky Swine Flu with these.

Please note that this is NOT a Catholic company, okay? Don’t freak out or be giving them grief. This is NOT intended for Catholic worship.

But I thought you would enjoy that anyway.

Post from: WDTPRS

If you liked the communion host PEZ dispenser, your gonna flip over this!

Bosnian Card. Puljic denies claims of Vatican commission about Medjugorje

Fr. John Zuhlsdorf — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:29:23 +0000

From CNA with my emphases and comments:

Bosnian Cardinal denies claims of Vatican commission for Medjugorje

Sarajevo, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Nov 20, 2009 / 11:45 am (CNA).- Cardinal Vinko Puljic, Archbishop of Sarajevo and President of the Bishops’ Conference of Bosnia and Herzegovina denied press reports yesterday which claim that the Vatican is creating a commission to investigate the alleged apparitions of Medjugorje.

The cardinal, who is visiting Rome to attend the plenary session of the Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples, of which he is a member, said that the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith is neither preparing a document nor establishing a special commission to study the Medjugorje apparitions.

Cardinal Puljic said that the official position of the bishops of Bosnia and Herzegovina is the one expressed by the then Bishops’ Conference of Yugoslavia in April 1991.

That statement not only expressed the episcopate’s support to then-Bishop Pavao Zanic of Mostar – where the town of Medjugorje is located – but explicitly said that,[pay attention…] “based on previous research, it cannot be affirmed that these events concerning apparitions and revelations are of supernatural nature.” [That doesn’t say "it cannot be denied"....]

“The doctrinal issue of the Medjugorje phenomenon is resolved, but its pastoral significance must still be taken into account,” the cardinal continued. [NB: "pastoral significance". Many people report experiences of conversion because of this… phenomenon.]

“The Medjugorje phenomenon is not only gathering faithful from Bosnia, but from all over the world, and in places where people gather to pray, God gives his blessing. Therefore, we should carefully examine all sides of this phenomenon,” he added.

Nevertheless, he reiterated, “for the moment, everything is under the jurisdiction of the local bishops.”

“Still, at any given moment, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith could establish an International Commission in order to study the case of Medjugorje,” the cardinal remarked.

Speaking at the 2004 assembly of the Synod of Bishops, Cardinal Puljic complained that the reported apparitions of Medjugorje were “becoming a source of division in the Church.” In 2006, the cardinal was involved in setting up a commission concluding that the alleged Marian apparitions were not supernatural.

Post from: WDTPRS

Bosnian Card. Puljic denies claims of Vatican commission about Medjugorje

Anglican Archbp. Williams to Rome: set aside issue of female bishops

Fr. John Zuhlsdorf — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:10:57 +0000

From the liberal daily The Guardian comes this with me emphases and comments:

Rowan Williams urges Rome to rethink position on female bishops

* Riazat Butt and John Hooper in Rome
* guardian.co.uk, Thursday 19 November 2009 19.50 GMT

The archbishop of Canterbury insists there is more uniting Anglicans and Catholics than dividing them.

The archbishop of Canterbury today pleaded with Roman Catholics to set aside their differences with Anglicans over the issue of female bishops, [?] insisting there was more uniting the denominations than dividing them.

Rowan Williams was giving a lecture in Rome before Saturday’s meeting with the pope, their first encounter since the Vatican’s surprise announcement of a special institution for traditionalist Anglicans wanting to convert to Catholicism.

In his address at the Gregorian University, Williams said the Anglican communion was proof that churches could stay together in spite of their differences. [And what a great job they have done of it!]

The communion has teetered on the edge of schism for nearly a decade over the issue of gay clergy but has retained a sliver of fellowship. Williams urged Roman Catholics to continue their 35-year dialogue with Anglicans in spite of theological and ideological divisions. [I don’t think there was any question of that.]

He said: "The various agreed statements of the churches stress that the church is a community, in which human beings are made sons and daughters of God.

"When so much agreement has been established in first-order matters about the identity and mission of the church, is it justifiable to treat other issues as equally vital for its health and integrity?" [So… what would those secondary issues be?]

Those issues included papal primacy, female clergy and the relations between the local and universal church in making decisions. "Is there a level of mutual recognition which allows a shared theological understanding of primacy alongside a diversity of canonical and juridical arrangements?" he wondered. [In other words, forget about the Petrine dimension of the Church and accept women priests and bishops… for the sake of these other "first order" matters, which I assume would be something like belief in the Trinity, Incarnation, Resurrection, etc.]

Williams challenged Roman Catholic thinking on female bishops, saying there was no proof that their ordination damaged the church. [You mean other than the fact it is it contrary to the God’s will, the Christian tradition, and the obvious rifts it has caused in the Anglican Church. Hey! Other than that, its fine!]

For his part the "ecumenical glass" was "genuinely half-full". [Why wouldn’t people want a fuller glass?] Catholics and Anglicans had achieved "striking" agreement on the broader questions. All that stood between them now were the "second order" issues of church organisation. [If ordination is solely about "organization", then Williams has a point about female clergy. In that case, anyone who is competent can do it. But the nature of the clergy, the priesthood in particular, is of fundamental importance to who the Church is.]

In an explicit but fleeting reference to the pope’s move last month, Williams said it was an "imaginative pastoral response, but did not break any new ecclesiological ground." His speech was aimed at reviving dialogue between Anglicans and Catholics. But it also carried an implicit threat that there would be little point in continuing if the Catholic side continued to insist that the obstacles were insuperable.

Williams said: "The question is whether this unfinished business is quite as fundamental as our Roman Catholic friends believe."

He seemed tense, biting the sides of his fingers while he listened to the speaker who followed. His anxiety is understandable.

Bishop Brian Farrell, the secretary of the Vatican department that deals with ecumenical dialogue, told him: "You have certainly presented us with a challenge." [Which is pretty much a way of saying, politely, "Nice try."]

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Anglican Archbp. Williams to Rome: set aside issue of female bishops

A sensible diocesan speakers/awards policy

Fr. John Zuhlsdorf — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 23:04:36 +0000

From newpaper of the Archdiocese of St. Paul and Minneapolis The Catholic Spirit with my emphases and comments:

New archdiocesan speaker policy to aid administrators
By The Catholic Spirit
Thursday, 19 November 2009

The following new speaker policy was recommended to Archbishop John C. Nienstedt by the Archdiocesan Presbyteral Council on Nov. 11 and approved by the archbishop that same day.

The following policy is offered to help pastors and administrators of any Catholic institution or organization in the Archdiocese of St. Paul and Minneapolis as they consider inviting speakers and/or granting awards.

To be considered for invitation, the person should be in good standing [which probably means not excommunicated or under interdict] with the Roman Catholic Church. [Here we go! ...] The speaker’s writings and previous public presentations must also be in harmony with the teaching and discipline of the church. A priest who left the ministerial priesthood without dispensation would not be eligible for consideration.

Those in irregular marriages or those living a lifestyle at variance with church teaching would also not be eligible.

Pastors/administrators should make a prudential judgment after appropriate research about the suitability of a speaker in light of the above criteria. If there are any questions needing clarification, they should feel free to confer with the archdiocesan Office of Communications.

For any archdiocesan-sponsored program, the moderator of the curia considers proposed speakers according to criteria listed above. If the speaker would also be addressing seminarians at St. John Vianney or the St. Paul Seminary, the seminary administration would need to grant concurrence.

[Here we go again…] Politicians and candidates for public office — regardless of their relationship with the Catholic Church — should never be invited to speak during or after the holy Eucharist. An appearance of a political candidate or incumbent government official on church property is at the discretion of the local pastor/administrator and only if consistent with the political activity guidelines issued by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops. [Can we assume that the politician may therefore not be pro-abortion?] Similarly, if a parish intends to host a candidate or other political forum, that must be done in keeping with the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops and Minnesota Catholic Conference guidelines. It should be clear that none of the candidates enjoy endorsement by the church.

With regard to granting of honorary awards, degrees, special recognition or commendation, the archdiocese abides by the 2004 policy of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops that we should not honor those who act in defiance of our fundamental moral principles. They should not be given awards, honors or platforms that might suggest support for their actions. [Indeed!]

I wonder if there is any such stated policy in South Bend?

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A sensible diocesan speakers/awards policy

Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) vaporizes Att. Gen. Eric Holder

Fr. John Zuhlsdorf — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 22:50:18 +0000

Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) hasn’t been one of my favorite US Senators (though he is pro-life).

This moment, however, deserves attention.

Watch the Senator vaporizes Attorney General Eric Holder in hearing. The Senator asks the Attorney General about the federal prosecution of terrorists as if they were criminals.

This heat up about 2 minutes in and the whole thing is about 9 minutes long, you don’t have to pay much attention after Holder tries to rebut.

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Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) vaporizes Att. Gen. Eric Holder

19 Nov 1863: The Gettysburg Address

Fr. John Zuhlsdorf — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 22:05:59 +0000

Today is the anniversary of the Gettysburg Address. It wasn’t much attended at the moment, but over time it has been recognized one of the greatest public speeches ever delivered.

Four and a half months after the Battle of Gettysburg, on the afternoon of Thursday 19 November 1863, President Abraham Lincoln delivered a "few appropriate remarks" at the dedication of the cemetery for fallen soldiers.

After a 13,607 word speech by Edward Everett, the President’s address consisted of 10 sentences in 272 words.

This address took me only about 2 minutes to read aloud.

Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate—we can not consecrate—we can not hallow—this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us—that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion—that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain—that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

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19 Nov 1863: The Gettysburg Address

Kalamazoo-zoo-zoo 21 Nov - Chant Workshop

Fr. John Zuhlsdorf — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 21:55:42 +0000

From a priest reader, Fr. Johansen:

Chant Workshop This Saturday!

This Saturday, November 21, Fr. David Grondz of St. Philip Neri House and I will be conducting an Introductory Gregorian Chant Workshop. We have had great success with these in the past, and contiune to attract interest. So far we have about 30 people signed up!

With this workshop coming just before Advent, we will give special attention to chants of the Advent season.

So, Catholics in Michigan and beyond – come and learn the music which is most truly that of the Liturgy!

No previous knowledge of Chant required – This is truly for beginners!

Saturday, November 21, 2009
9:00 AM - 4:00 PM

Hackett Central Catholic High School
1000 E. Kilgore Rd.
Kalamazoo, Michigan.

For more information or to RSVP call St. Philip Neri House at (269) 385-9933, or e-mail to frdavid AT stphilipnerihouse DOT org.

(Hackett Central Catholic High School is in Kalamazoo, just a few minutes from I-94.)

Cost: $30.00 per person (includes lunch and a copy of the Parish Book of Chant).

Sponsored by St. Philip Neri House.

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Kalamazoo-zoo-zoo 21 Nov - Chant Workshop

Terminally ill priest meets with Pope, offers sufferings for the Church

Fr. John Zuhlsdorf — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 21:10:38 +0000

From CNA:

Terminally ill priest meets with Pope, offers sufferings for the Church

Vatican City, Nov 19, 2009 / 02:02 pm (CNA).- Father Luigi Squarcia, a pastor in the Italian town of Acquapendente who has suffered from Lou Gehrig’s disease for the last four years, met with Pope Benedict XVI on Wednesday and offered his “sufferings for the good of the Church.”

After the meeting with the Holy Father in Paul VI Hall, Father Squarcia said, “I came to offer the Pope my sufferings for the good of the Church. I am here, for the first time, after years of working with the parishioners and the children at our school.”

Now, he told L’Osservatore Romano, “I can no longer move my arms or legs and I know I will lose my speech and later maybe the ability to breathe.” He noted that more people than ever are coming to him for the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

Lou Gehrig’s disease is a serious neuromuscular disorder that causes muscle weakness, disability and eventually death.

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Terminally ill priest meets with Pope, offers sufferings for the Church