That fraud of the ‘Mrs Jesus’ papyrus fragment keeps surfacing in the news rather like a mortifying fish will in a pond.
That fragment was a fraud, easily exposed. That raises the question: Why would an intelligent person expose herself to the sort of scorn such a stunt deserves?
ANSWER: Get into the press and attract attention while working for some other agenda.
Thus, the fraud about a sacred topic becomes an excuse for another fraud about something sacred.
A priest notified me about this from WaPo:
Why a former nun will be ordained a priest
By Diane Dougherty, Published: OCTOBER 12, 7:23 PM ETI am passionate about Jesus’ vision for women disciples in our church — so much so that on Oct. 20, I will be ordained a priest in Atlanta along with five women who will be ordained deacons. The recent third-century papyrus discovery [a FRAUD] announced by Dr. Karen L. King confirms what I have always known about my own calling, “She will be my disciple.”
[…]
pfffft
Make popcorn and read the rest there.
Strange stuff.
She will not be ordained anything. The whole thing is sacrilegious make believe and dress up. But WaPo will just go along with the false premise that this fraud could be anything like a valid sacrament.
This is how liberals work: they do thing incrementally. They strive to bump the paradigm a little at a time in their direction. Eventually people take their fairy tales for truth. Then people start foot noting the fairy tales and it becomes a scholarly claim. Then the press starts quoting them as if they have standing….
Women cannot be ordained.
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Wow, she says “I” almost as much as Obama.
Robert_H says: “Wow, she says “I” almost as much as Obama.”
Come now, Robert, such hyperbole. NO ONE says “I” as much as Obama. ; )
“I was in my glory.”
What happened to God? “Glory to God in the Highest …” the Church must have got something wrong here. We didn’t realize that all along it was supposed to be about
“For the next 14 years, I worked in a Catholic school as well as for the Archdiocese of Atlanta as director of children’s catechesis.”
And we wonder why there are problems with catechesis these days.
At the moment, the papyrus fragment is only a possible fraud. I’ll even grant you likely fraud. We have some serious scholarly objections raised which need explanation, and documents (plural–there were documents supporting the chain of custody of the papyrus fragment) which continue to need closer examination.
She seems a little flaky to me.
As we either know or cold probably guess not all of the men who have been ordained to the deaconate and/or priesthood have been the most stable people.
Fr. Jim, if you are trying to say that she is delusional, I have to agree with you.
Fr. Jim, if you are trying to say that she is delusional, I have to agree with you.
I certainly would not suggest a diagnosis (1) because I have not interviewed her and (2) because I am not licensed or insured to provide diagnoses.
I prefer non-clinical words like “flake.”
Plus I don’t think it is healthy to invest so much of oneself into that which is impossible. It is a recipe for depression and anxiety. I don’t recommend it.
For example, I knew at the outset that it would be ridiculous to enter the seminary with the hope that marriage would someday be permitted.
No, it is a fake, its Coptic is not Coptic. It also contains the very same error as an already established fake.
I certainly would not suggest a diagnosis (1) because I have not interviewed her and (2) because I am not licensed or insured to provide diagnoses.
My family’s very sad history with those who are licensed suggests that granting them exclusive use of terms like delusional is foolish. The word was not invented, rather it was stolen, a bit like what has been done to the word gay.
wmeyer, I am sorry that you have family members that have been ill treated by mental health professionals. It is true that there are indeed many unethical and flaky people in that line of work. Not to mention plagiarists and abusers. On the other hand there are many wonderful field in that profession, some of whom have undoubtedly saved many lives over the years. I personally know of two dear friends who would not be alive today if their issues had not been properly treated. I am sorry you had a bad experience.
With regard to the slang use of the word “gay,” I found an interesting piece at the webite etymonline which backtracks some usage even in the first half of the 19th Century. I guess if you said that all slang words were “stolen” there could be some support for your statement, but it seems that the development of all sorts of slang is devoid of any kind of logic.
Was the word “cool” stolen? I don’t know if it’s accurate to say that. The Fonz was not really at a low temperature, but would anybody say that he “really is not cool, he’s 98.6 degrees like all of us?” Of course not, because that would be an absurd denial of the organic development of slang.
It seems that the slang expression “gay” to describe persons of a homosexual orientation is going to be with us for quite a while. Of course there is nothing forcing anyone to use it.
“For example, I knew at the outset that it would be ridiculous to enter the seminary with the hope that marriage would someday be permitted.”
Exactly, Father Jim. Another example might be a man who is convinced that he can conceive and bear a child if he wishes it to be so. If this woman is a Catholic and thinks she can be a priest just because she wishes it, she is in the same category. The word delusion has two common uses: one is a psychiatric diagnosis. The other is: “a mistaken notion: a false or mistaken belief or idea about something”. In that everyday, non-clinical use of the word, it fits.
Sissy, somewhat true although it is a biological impossibility for a man to conceive and bear a child whereas the added-on discipline of celibacy could be easily removed from presbyteral orders with the stroke of a pen as early as tomorrow.
It is also a biological impossibility for a woman to be a priest, Father. ; )
I don’t see the point in airing my opinion about that.
I thought you were contrasting male pregnancy with married clergy.
No Father Jim, I’m comparing the delusion of a man thinking he can bear a child with the delusion of a woman thinking she can be a priest. Both are delusions, and for the same reason: biological impossibility.
Any practicing Catholic, male or female, is already a disciple of Christ! Will the sixties never die? This poor woman seems to be stuck in the “haves-versus-have nots” sixties power struggle mode, failing to see how she can serve God right where she is.
Isn’t she also excommunicated. along with everyone else participating in this sacrilegious sham?
She seems a little flaky to me.
A little flakey?? She is to flakey as flakey was to my Rottweiler’s dandruff.
PostCatholic says,
At the moment, the papyrus fragment is only a possible fraud. I’ll even grant you likely fraud. We have some serious scholarly objections raised which need explanation, and documents (plural–there were documents supporting the chain of custody of the papyrus fragment) which continue to need closer examination.
I assume that you mean it is not an historical document. Even if it were, however, so what? We know from history and Scripture that there problems with gnosticism even during the Apostolic times. And there were gnostic scriptures floating around in the post Apostolic Church.
@Sissy – “It is also a biological impossibility for a woman to be a priest,” – very well said! That’s taking the same thing Blessed JPII said, and looking at it from the other end. Very nice.
Lord have mercy! This . . . kook was in charge of instructing the children in OUR archdiocese!
And this area is considered relatively orthodox. Although there are pockets of lunacy. A woman of a certain age in our parish, when I was riffing on the awful hymns that Thomas Day calls “voice of God” songs . . . looked at me and said, “but we ARE the voice of God.”
I didn’t want to bite her head off because she is an old lady, but . . . really?
On October 20 she and five other women will be latae sententiae excommunicated
Yet another who thinks about her own wants rather than about obedience. Whatever happened to properly formed consciences?
Father K, excommunication is only a word we use to scare people from doing what Jesus would want them to do. If they don’t feel excommunicated how could they actually be excommunicated!?!? ;) :/
Sure. Karen King went public with the papyrus fragment at a conference in Italy precisely because it raised a lot of questions about authenticity. The worldwide media picked up on the story following that. The extent to which the document, if not a forgery, is interesting to religious history is only in answering what some Copts in the third or fourth century CE were saying about Jesus.
“Will the sixties never die?”
Saul Alinsky hasn’t died yet; don’t get your hopes up.