Question for readers: TLM and NO readings

Do any of you know of a site where someone has compared, side by side, the readings or “pericopes” for both the Extraordinary and the Ordinary Forms of the Roman Rite, for the whole liturgical year?

That is to say, I am wondering if there is a chart somewhere where you can see the correspondence of the readings.  As in, the pericope Matthew 16:13-20 appears on the 21st Sunday in Ordinary Time Year A as well as (more or less the same) appears in the 1962 Missale Romanum on Sts. Peter and Paul.

I found the Scripture Index of Gospel Readings, 1962 Missale Romanum as well as the Scriptural Index of Chants and Readings in the Missale Romanum(1962), but that seems to require, to download, a subscription that I don’t have.  (Anyone?)

CLARIFICATION:  It would be good at least to have this side by side chart of correspondence for SUNDAYS at least.  That would be the most useful.

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21 Responses to Question for readers: TLM and NO readings

  1. pberginjr says:

    I don’t think this is exactly what you want, but Felix Just, SJ has a nice resource here that provides all of the information in a nice table format (which could be printed and compared, or maybe even cut-and-paste into the parallel column arrangement you would like):

    catholic-resources (dot) org / Lectionary

    Roman Missal is available at /Roman_Missal.htm
    The 98/02 Lectionary at /1998USL.htm
    /statistics.htm has a handy comparison table of the amount of scripture read from each book in PreV2/PostV2 Lectionary cycle.

    I hope this is useful to you.
    With prayers

  2. Marie Teresa says:

    It’s not a website, but in the iPieta app you can easily click from the NO to the Traditional calendar.
    for today, Saturday 23rd of August…

    Trad: S. Philippi Beniti Confe. 2 Corinthians 4:9-14; Luke 12:32-34

    NO: St. Rose of Lima, Virgin. Ezekiel 43:1-7; Matthew 23:1-12

    With a second click you have the readings for either the Traditional Mass or the Novus Ordo Mass.

    You might be looking for something else, [Yes, I am.] but for me this is great – I can add the readings to my prayers before Mass, and no internet connection is needed.

  3. ProfKwasniewski says:

    This blog has some very helpful stuff on it, including a complete table of readings for the EF:
    http://catholiclectionary.blogspot.co.uk/

    I’m not sure if anyone has ever prepared a comparison that takes the pericopes themselves as the main point of comparison and then indicates where that reading shows up in the OF and EF. That would be enormously interesting.

    [One seemingly useful link seems to be broken.]

  4. Hello Father. I can recommend one site where one can see partly, or fully, the readings side by side (or at least their references.). I have a second option, and an app for phones I can recommend too.

    The first is Divine Lamp. While the author seems to have stuck to only Novus Ordo for this past year (A), in past he did post side by side with commentary the Novus Ordo and the Latin Mass readings for Sundays. It`s not 100% complete, and the viewer needs to dig and match up that date to the year’s Novus Ordo cycle, but here it is anyway:
    http://thedivinelamp.wordpress.com/category/latin-mass-notes/

    The second option, if you have the Windows Vista or higher that can put two windows side by side, is to activate the Sancta Missa Mass website and the USCCB readings of the day website (for USA Readers. Canada, just have to find the NRSV bible online and a lectionary site.) The Sancta Missa site is: http://divinumofficium.com/cgi-bin/missa/missa.pl

    As for Apps, one that does this properly, with both readings under a tab, is the iPieta app. It has a calendar that easily switches between Novus Ordo readings and “Trad“ or Latin Mass readings. As an added bonus, it has a number of traditional prayers, and a number of prolific writings in theology and Church history, such as: Fr. Z`s famously quoted Butler`s Saints (1894), the Baltimore Catechism 1-3 (no #4), a number of saints’ writings including classics, teh Catena Aurea etc. And if you are a Francis Fan, it updates with not just his major writings but his weekly Angelus and major feast day and Sunday homilies too.

    As for a full, current comparison Internet site though, there isn’t a good one yet. Perhaps that’s a future project for someone adventurous …

  5. Reconverted Idiot says:

    Latin Mass Society did it HERE.
    I think that meets the brief.

    Meanwhile, as an aside, Rorate did a series by Don Pietro Leone which is as close as anything I’ve come across.
    All posts in the series can be found HERE.

  6. Reconverted Idiot says:

    Agh, tired eyes. I misread the request. Still, useful sources, but my apologies nonetheless.

  7. Ttony says:

    Father, if you read http://ccfather.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Lectionary from the bottom up, you will get what you are looking for, even if spread over a few posts.

    [If it is spread over a few posts, it is not what I am looking for.]

  8. Ben Trovato says:

    Father,
    Are you looking for Sunday readings, or weekdays as well? Either would be tricky, given the three-year cycle of readings in the NO… But I may have a crack at it, if Sundays is all you want. Weekdays might be more than I can find time for at present.

  9. Ben Trovato says: Sunday readings, or weekdays as well?

    Primarily Sundays. That would be the most helpful, I think. Thanks for asking.

  10. Grateful to be Catholic says:

    The “seemingly useful link” that seemed to be broken worked for me. Try again.
    http://catholiclectionary.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/scripture-index-for-1962-mr-and-some.html

  11. Ben Trovato says:

    Father,

    I’ll have a shot at that and let you know when I’m done. (Don’t hold your breath – maybe have a Mystic Monk Coffee or two instead).

  12. Ivan says:

    Grateful to be Catholic says: The “seemingly useful link” that seemed to be broken worked for me. Try again.
    http://catholiclectionary.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/scripture-index-for-1962-mr-and-some.html

    I think Father wanted to say that the first link in that article (which points to a PDF – https://www.dropbox.com/s/bec84ynnj6b3ztw/Scripture%20Index%20of%20Chants%20and%20Readings%20%281962%20Missal%29.pdf) is broken. 404.

  13. mhazell says:

    Father,

    I am the author/complier of the scripture indexes and tables of the readings in the 1962 Missal found on catholiclectionary.blogspot.co.uk. I’m sorry to hear you’re having problems downloading them. Until I can get the blog links sorted out, please try the following links (Google Drive):

    1. Table of Readings in the 1962 Missale Romanum
    2. Scripture Index of Chants and Readings in the 1962 Missale Romanum
    3. And, for kicks and also because you might find it interesting, the Table of Readings from the Experimental Lectionary in Use in England & Wales, Scotland and Ireland, 1965-69.

    I will keep an eye on the comments section for this post – please let me know if you have any problems accessing and downloading the files!

    Matthew

  14. mhazell says:

    A couple of hours work later… and hopefully this is the sort of thing you’re looking for, Father! Probably still needs a little bit of work, but I think it’s complete enough to share, plus I need to get to bed!

    Comparison of OF and EF Lectionary Readings: Sundays and Feast Days

    Again, if anyone has any problems downloading it from Google Drive, please let me know. (Oh, and sorry that the font is quite small – it was the only way to fit the table on an A4 page!)

    For what it’s worth, there seems to be very little correspondence between the calendars in terms of readings, even in the proper seasons. I think there are a number of reasons for this: the three years of readings that exist in the OF Sunday lectionary, the fact that the OF second reading works on its own logic and is not related to the other readings, etc. I find it interesting that, in my experience at least, many of a traditional bent are willing to say that the OF lectionary is a good fruit of the liturgical reforms, yet it is one of the more obvious examples of rupture and discontinuity with what came before!

    Oh, and the table itself has obvious and significant limitations, mainly due to the variable date of Easter. But I hope it’s useful all the same.

    Matthew

  15. Ben Trovato says:

    (By your leave, Father…)

    Matthew,

    Thanks – what a useful resource! And a great time-saver for me, as I was a third of the way through doing the same thing.

    Ben

  16. Venerator Sti Lot says:

    I had been vaguely, longingly wondering if there was anything like this – a means of easy comparison – without any idea of how to begin trying to find out!

    Thank you all for tackling this for the rest of us – especially Matthew Hazell!

    Matthew writes of “the fact that the OF second reading works on its own logic and is not related to the other readings”: can he, or anyone, recommend where we can read more about this (preferably online without subscription!)?

    He also says, “many of a traditional bent are willing to say that the OF lectionary is a good fruit of the liturgical reforms” – maybe they have heard good sermons illuminating inter-relations between readings in the Sunday lectionary – that has been my experience often enough to leave me with a good impression.

  17. mhazell says:

    @Venerator Sti Lot: can [Matthew], or anyone, recommend where we can read more about this (preferably online without subscription!)?

    The General Introduction to the Lectionary would be the best place to start. Chapter V (pp. 20-26) explains the layout of the Order of Readings. For the most part, the link between the readings on Sundays is between the first reading and the Gospel. Only in certain of the proper seasons is the second reading purposefully linked to the other readings; for the most part, the second reading works on its own cycle, and is a semi-continuous reading through various NT epistles.

    For example, in Ordinary Time in Year A, we read parts of 1 Cor. 1-4 (weeks 1-8), Rom. 3-14 (weeks 9-24), Philippians (weeks 25-28), and 1 Thessalonians (weeks 29-33). Where these readings seem to fit in with the first reading and Gospel, that is by coincidence rather than by design. In my opinion, this is one of the weaknesses of the reformed lectionary, because often people try to find a common thread between all three readings that doesn’t usually exist, and when they can’t, they tune out of the Liturgy of the Word, feeling like they can’t really understand it.

  18. Venerator Sti Lot says:

    Dear Matthew Hazell,

    Thank you for doing the next bit of work for me so promptly and kindly!

    Lectio semi-continua…

    Frankly, I hope you are wrong about people trying “to find a common thread between all three readings […], and when they can’t, they tune out of the Liturgy of the Word, feeling like they can’t really understand it” – a sad thought!

    I wonder if my broadly positive impression respecting sermons is largely informed by memories of feasts with their own readings, or whether it is sufficiently of the nature of Epistles that a good sermon can often highlight some really relevant connection, even if its presence is more coincidental – or Providential? – than ‘lectionarily’ deliberate?

    Having probably more Latin OF High Masses in my recent experience than anything else, I do wonder in a general way about the inter-relations of Propers and readings… (It does not make me “tune out”: does it tend foster ingenuity in trying to see how they may connect…?)

  19. uptoncp says:

    Here’s a comparison sorted in scripture order. Gospels only, but it does also compare Sarum and its contracted daughter the 1662 BCP, as well as the Church of England’s current lectionary (2 or 3 revisions removed from the OF).

    https://files.acrobat.com/a/preview/ca02d59b-70f9-4725-a407-e249e7f521dc

  20. uptoncp says:

    Apologies, I realised I’d missed off Ordinary Time for year C. As penance, I have also added the RCL. Font size is smaller to fit the extra columns, but the page breaks fall more pleasingly.

    https://files.acrobat.com/a/preview/2c618da0-633d-4f75-b48d-be2e7a41d38e

    Fr. Z's Gold Star Award

  21. uptoncp: We will have a look!