Bill Murray and the Traditional Latin Mass

Actor Bill Murray misses the older, traditional Latin Mass.  Rod Dreher brings this to our attention. HERE

Bill Murray Misses The Latin Mass

One new saint he does approve of is Pope John XXIII (who died in 1963). “I’ll buy that one, he’s my guy; an extraordinary joyous Florentine [ummm... Bergamo in Lombardy] who changed the order. I’m not sure all those changes were right. I tend to disagree with what they call the new mass. I think we lost something by losing the Latin. Now if you go to a Catholic mass even just in Harlem it can be in Spanish, it can be in Ethiopian, it can be in any number of languages. The shape of it, the pictures, are the same but the words aren’t the same.”

Isn’t it good for people to understand it? “I guess,” he says, shaking his head. “But there’s a vibration to those words. If you’ve been in the business long enough you know what they mean anyway. And I really miss the music – the power of it, y’know? Yikes! Sacred music has an affect on your brain.” Instead, he says, we get “folk songs … top 40 stuff … oh, brother….”

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Posted in Our Catholic Identity | Tagged | 32 Comments

What Fr. Z really said when interviewed by Adam Shaw of Fox News

Recently, Adam Shaw of FNC published quotes from me in a piece online about the dynamics that are developing in the Church during the pontificate of Pope Francis.

I am now getting email asking me about this.

The interview Adam Shaw conducted with me was a written format.  He sent me questions, as an interview, and I answered them on 12 November.

Here is what I was asked and what I responded.

I include [QUESTION] to make it clearer for you to see the breaks.

[QUESTION] 1. Is there a backlash forming from so-called “conservative” Catholics in the US upset with Pope Francis?

Backlash is too strong a word. Let’s avoid hype. There is concern in some quarters around two main issues: His Holiness’s view of capitalism and his view of sexual morality. The latter concerns were largely generated around the Synod, though they began earlier with his comments on the flight from Rio. On neither of these issues has Francis completely lost conservative Catholics in the US Church … yet. Rank-and-file Catholics of all stripes remain extraordinarily devoted to him. However, conservative Catholic “opinion-shapers” now voice concerns in increasingly urgent tones. Nevertheless, this cannot be characterized as a backlash. That would require action that openly resists the Pope. While there have been some calls for that (cf Douthat), nothing is happening on the ground.

If there is backlash, however, we should look in the other direction. The liberal fringe of theologians and powers-that-be are vocal and virtually omnipresent in the media. At the Synod, a wide spectrum of Fathers stood up to the brazen manipulation of the debate. It could be that the divide is not so much between conservatives and progressives but between those who stick with Christ’s clear will and those who seek ways around it.

[QUESTION] 2. If so, is this growing or has it always been there since he was elected? How about since the Synod?

Whichever way one wants to characterize concerns about His Holiness from conservative quarters in these USA, they have certainly grown wider and louder since he was elected. They were not widespread at the beginning of the pontificate. The Synod contributed to a perceivable change in the feeling about His Holiness among conservatives. You might say that the Synod was a turning point for conservatives, the end of the honeymoon.

That said, it is no surprise that Catholics disagree on matters of prudential judgment (e.g. economics, style). The problem, as shown at the Synod, is more with those who claim that everything they say is in tune with the vision of Francis.

[QUESTION] 3. Is there is opposition, what is causing this do you think?

See # 1.

[QUESTION] 4. Card. Burke and Chaput have been saying some slightly rougher things about Francis in recent days ñ is this significant, and also is this usual or unusual with popes and bishops?

It important to separate Chaput from Burke a bit. Chaput maintains that he didn’t criticize His Holiness. Instead, His Excellency warned that the media’s reflection on the Synod was creating confusion. He said that Catholics may be confused by false reports that Church teaching in certain areas was changing.

Card. Burke is another kettle of fish. It seems to me that what he said to Vida Nueva (i.e, the Church is “rudderless” or “without a compass”, whatever it was he said) could be stretched into an implied criticism of His Holiness.

As to significance, yes, it is significant. Why? Pope Francis explicitly called for open, frank, honest debate on the issues among the bishops during the Synod. Because Synod ’14 is only the first of two sessions on these issues, the interim year is also part of the conversation. Pope Francis wants honest, frank debate. As a matter of fact, it seems as if he really can’t get enough of it. It is hard to imagine that he would want his closest collaborators to be “yes men”.

Again about Card. Burke, review his own words and take them at face value.

“Certain media simply want to keep portraying me as living my life as an opponent to Pope Francis,” he said. “I am not at all. I’ve been serving him in the Apostolic Signatura and in other ways I continue to serve him.”

“I wasn’t saying that the Holy Father’s idea is this,” he explained, “but I’ve seen other people using his words to justify a kind of “accommodation” of the faith to the culture which can never be so.”

[QUESTION] 5. What can Francis do to tame some of this opposition, and do you think he will do it?

What can he do? I suppose he could resign or die. I’m not being flippant, either. Death or resignation are when Popes stop being oppossed! To be Pope means to have opposition. There is always someone against you. That’s why we have Popes: to strengthen the brethren in the face of the attacks of the world, the flesh and the devil.

At the Synod, Pope Francis reaffirmed a basic truth of the Church’s ecclesiology. The Successor of Peter is the guarantor of the fidelity of the Church to Christ’s teaching. In his concluding speech he recalled forcefully his role as Supreme Pontiff. I am sure he will act on his words. I am not sure how, but I am sure he will.

While I am hardly in the position of telling or even suggesting what the Pope should do, it seems to me that he will state what Christ and 20 centuries of Apostolic faith have expressed, what is found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. The Church has no intention of pleasing the world when what is on the table is contrary to the truth about man and about God.

The concern is not so much about Pope Francis. Every Pope is different in style, appeal, personality. I think the concern must be fixed on the nostaligc ideologues who are stuck in the 1970s and who are desperately trying to revive their heydays after 30 years under St. John Paul II and Benedict XVI.

Honest Catholics should avoid a situation where a faction tried to force the hand of Peter in 1968 about contraception and then, when Humanae vitae was promulgated, they revolted against Pope Paul once he did the only thing any Pope could do: reaffirm clear teaching. We must avoid bulding up groundless expectations, which will lead, on the part of those who have sided with the world, to revolt against the Roman Pontiff and all that he stands for in the Church. Those who repeatedly say “Francis! Francis!” today just might ditch him when they can no longer instrumentalize him. That’s what they did with Paul VI. That’ll be the true backlash you asked about.

You may remember Mr. Shaw’s other opinion piece about Pope Francis.  I wrote about it Fox News opinion piece BLASTS Pope Francis as “the Catholic Church’s Obama”

Anyway, I understand that the article online is being adjusted.

Posted in The Drill | Tagged , , | 16 Comments

“Yeu arr teking zee pheud pheuteaux wit yeur zmarty pheun!”

Since I am in Paris, and shoot photos of feud weet ma pheun, I thought I would share again my last encounter with the Inspector from Feb 2014:

Just the other night Inspector Clouseau burst into the restaurant where I was dining with friends… :

“Eez dees yeur pheun?! Yeu arr teking zee pheuteaux wit yeur pheun!  Dees ees not allowed, le French food pheun photo.”

“My …. pheun?”

“Yes, yeur pheun.  Yeur zmarty pheun.”

“You mean my smart iPhone?”

“Of course!

“Why, yes.  As a matter of fact, I am.”

“I supose yeu intend too to post dem to yeur bleug?”

“My what?”

“Yeur bleug, bleug!!

“My blog?”

“Dat eez what I had been saying, yeu feul!”

From The Beeb:

France: Top chefs crack down on ‘food porn’

Two Michelin-starred French chefs are cracking down on customers who take photographs of their food, it’s been reported.  [YIKES!]


Posted in Classic Posts, Lighter fare, Linking Back, On the road, What Fr. Z is up to | Tagged | 10 Comments

Prayers and help for Fr. Kirby of Silverstream Priory

From a reader:

Fr Mark Kirby, of Vultus Christi blog, who with a small community is trying to save and revive Silverstream Priory, is in hospital. Would you pray for him? Would you ask readers to pray for him? And give him the material support he needs to keep warm and fed, along with his flock of five.


The thing is, Fr Mark needs to be encouraged, forced even, to ask for material help. He endured two winters in his fledgling monastery with no heating system. Now he has a heating system, could we support him to put fuel in the boiler? Warm soups on the table? I do not exaggerate his material needs. The conditions he lives in are improving but truly shocking.

Fr Mark recently had the joy of seeing one of his little community ordained to the priesthood. He has novices and postulants. He is a holy man and has many apostolates in keeping with his habit. But he needs to be able to turn on the heat and eat warm food!

Posted in Urgent Prayer Requests | Tagged | 19 Comments

PARIS – Day 6: La chasse and prayers and shells

Yesterday one of you readers gave me a good lead on where to find images (probably holy cards or other) of Our Lady of the Clergy in that version I posted.  Since their main store is a few minutes walk from where I a staying, I tried that as the first errand of the day. No joy.

Today to Montmartre.



It was my intention to visit the Basilica of the Sacred Heart, built from a sense of penitence and devotion from a nation.




They have had exposition here, continuously, since 1 August 1885.  However, not they cover the Blessed Sacrament of Mass.  Once, it would not have been so.


The Eucharistic Lord covered during Mass.


I spent a lot of time here, through Mass, exposition, the Benedictines singing their midday hour.  I said my own prayers, too.

Ut ómnibus benefactóribus nostris sempitérna bona retríbuas, te rogámus, audi nos.

Ut ánimas nostras, fratrum, propinquórum et benefactórum nostrórum ab ætérna damnatióne erípias, te rogámus, audi nos.

V. Orémus pro benefactóribus nostris.
R. Retribuere dignáre, Dómine, ómnibus, nobis bona faciéntibus propter nomen tuum, vitam ætérnam. Amen.

You are wonderful and it is my pleasure and duty to remember you in my prayers.

I hope you can read this writing and puzzle it out.   I found this moving and wondered, what sort of calamity would it take for a nation to do the like again?


Lunch.  Mussels.  Crispy fries.  Sauvignon blanc.


One of the stupidest things I’ve seen anywhere … and I don’t mean the street sign.


Paris has distinctive water fountains, a bit more ornate than Rome’s.


Meanwhile while walking about, I found a plaque to the original, non-fictional D’Artagnan.


And in this place some of my country’s history took place.


And… just because a priest wrote and suggested that I go to Laduree.




Posted in On the road, What Fr. Z is up to | Tagged , , , , | 15 Comments

WDTPRS – Christ the King (2002MR): elements will be dissolved with fire, the earth will be burned up

We approach the last Sunday of the liturgical year.

In the post-Conciliar calendar of the Roman Church this is the Solemnity of Christ the King.  In the older calendar, this is celebrated (with a rather different meaning!) at the end of October.

Each year Holy Church presents to us the history of salvation, from Creation to the Lord’s Coming (the First and also the Final).

Sunday’s Solemnity is an anticipation of the season of Advent, which  focuses on the different ways in which the Lord comes to us, especially in the Second Coming.

At this time of year (November) we are also considering the Four Last Things: death, judgment, heaven and hell.   We are praying for the Poor Souls in Purgatory in a special way this month.

The Solemnity of Christ the King brings to our attention the fact that the Lord is coming precisely as King and Judge not merely as friend or brother or favorite role-model.

In the great Dies Irae prayed at Requiem Masses for so long (and still today), Christ is identified as “King of Fearful Majesty” and “Just Judge”.

Consider today’s feast in light of what we read in 2 Peter 3: 10-12:

“But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a loud noise, and the elements will be dissolved with fire, and the earth and the works that are upon it will be burned up. Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of persons ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness, waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be kindled and dissolved, and the elements will melt with fire!”

Not exactly hugs and fluffy lambs for everyone.

Christ Jesus will judge us all, dear friends, and submit all things to the Father (cf. 1 Cor 15:28).  Having excluded some from His presence, our King, Christ Jesus, will reign in majestic glory with the many who accepted His gifts and thereby merited eternal bliss.

COLLECT – (2002MR):

Omnipotens sempiterne Deus, qui in dilecto Filio tuo, universorum Rege, omnia instaurare voluisti, concede propitius, ut tota creatura, a servitute liberata, tuae maiestati deserviat ac te sine fine collaudet.

While this Collect is of new composition for the Novus Ordo, it is similar to what was in the 1962 Missale Romanum for this feast with variations in the second part: Omnipotens sempiterne Deus, qui dilecto Filio tuo universorum Rege, omnia instaurare voluisti: concede propitius; ut cunctae familiae gentium, peccati vulnere disgregatae, eius suavissimo subdantur imperio… “so that all the families of peoples, torn apart by the wound of sin, may be subject to His most gentle rule.”  That’s a different message by far.  Today’s Collect demonstrates the theological shift in many of the Latin prayers in the Novus Ordo.  But that is the stuff of other posts.

Universus is an adjective and universorum a neuter plural, “all things.”  Since we have another “all things” in omnia I will make universorum into “the whole universe.”  Our Latin ears perk up when we hear compound verbs (verbs with an attached preposition like sub or de or cvm).

In our own copies of A Latin Dictionary. Founded on Andrews’ edition of Freund’s Latin dictionary. revised, enlarged, and in great part rewritten by. Charlton T. Lewis, Ph.D. and. Charles Short, LL.D. – (aka Lewis & Short or L&S) we find that de-servio expands the meaning of servio to mean “serve zealously, be devoted to, subject to.”  Col-laudo, more emphatic than simple laudo, means “to praise or commend very much, extol highly.”

You veterans of WDTPRS know how maiestas is synonymous with gloria which in early Latin writers such as Hilary of Poitiers, Ambrose and in early liturgical texts, the equivalent of biblical Greek doxa and Hebrew kabod.   This “glory” and “majesty” is God’s own transforming power, a sharing of His life, that transforms us into what He is in an everlasting “deification”.

Instauro is a wonderful word which deserves more attention: “to renew, repeat, celebrate anew; to repair, restore; to erect, make”.  It is synonymous with renovo.  Etymologically instauro is related to Greek stauros. Turning to a different L&S, the immensely valuable Liddell & Scott Greek Dictionary, we find that stauros is “an upright pale or stake.”   Stauros is the word used in the Greek New Testament for the Cross of Jesus.  Also the word immediately makes us think not only of the motto on the coat-of-arms of Pope St. Pius X, but also the origin of that motto Ephesians 1:10: “For he has made known to us in all wisdom and insight the mystery of his will, according to his purpose which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.” (Eph 1:9-10 RSV).  There have been, by the way, some changes in the Latin texts of this passage.  The older Vulgate says “instaurare omnia in Christo” while the New Vulgate says “recapitulare omnia in Christo”.

Recapitulare is related to Latin caput (“head”) and was deemed by the scholars behind the New Vulgate as a better translation of the Greek anakephalaioô, “to sum up the argument.”  This harks to the headship of Christ over the Body of the Church and expresses that He is the Final Statement, the Conclusion of All Things.  At any rate, in 1925 and in the 1960’s when the older version of Vulgate was in use, the Collect had instaurare and not recapitulare.

Why all this about recapitulare?

The phrase, “renew/reinstate all things in Christ” points to the Kingship of Jesus.  In everything that Jesus said or did in His earthly life, He was actively drawing all things and peoples to Himself.

In the time to come, when His Majesty the King returns in gloria and maiestas this act of drawing-to-Himself (cf. John 12:32) will culminate in the exaltation of all creation in a perfect unending paean of praise.  In the meantime, by virtue of baptism and our integration into Christus Venturus (Christ About-To-Come), we all share in His three-fold office of priest, prophet, and also king.  We have the duty to proclaim His Kingship by all that we say and do.  We are to offer all our good works back to Him for the sake of His glory and the expectation of His Coming.  This glorious restoration (instaurare) is possible only through the Lord’s Cross (Greek stauros).  The Cross is found subtly in the midst of this Collect, where it is revealed as the pivot point of all creation (creatura).


Almighty eternal God, who desired to renew all things in Your beloved Son, the King of the universe, graciously grant that the whole of creation, having been freed from servitude, may zealously serve Your majesty and praise You greatly without end.

The first objective of our participation in the Church’s sacred rites is to praise God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and give God glory.  This is what we owe by the virtue of religion.

Liturgical and Biblical Latin is rich with words and phrases which exalt and express praise of God.  In fact, the concepts of “glory” and “majesty” are nearly interchangeable in this light.  We, on the one hand, render up honor and glory to God in a way external to God.  On the other hand, glory and majesty are also divine attributes which we in no way give Him, which He has – or rather is – in Himself by His nature.

When we come into His presence, even in the contact we have with Him through the Church’s sacred mysteries, His divine attribute of splendor or glory or majesty, whatever you will, has the power to transform us.  His majestic glory changes us.  This MYSTERY changes us.  So, it is right to translate these lofty sounding attributions for God when we raise our voices in the Church’s official cult.


Almighty and merciful God, you break the power of evil and make all things new in your Son Jesus Christ, the King of the universe. May all in heaven and earth acclaim your glory and never cease to praise you.


Almighty ever-living God, whose will is to restore all things in your beloved Son, the King of the universe, grant, we pray, that the whole creation, set free from slavery, may render your majesty service and ceaselessly proclaim your praise.

Posted in Liturgy Science Theatre 3000, WDTPRS | Tagged | 11 Comments

Now is the time! Romanorum coetibus!

I think it was the late Fr. Richard John Neuhaus who said that the Anglican Church existed in order to make irony redundant.

They took another step in perfecting irony by approving wyshops… errrr. women “bishops”.

There is a Vatican Insider piece HERE.

This is not really much of a story, except insofar as it wipes out what was left of any serious ecumenical undertaking with them.   As Card. Diaz put it when addressing the Lambeth gathering a few years ago, they now are suffering from ecclesial Alzheimers.

Therefore, the true point of this post.

We are are delighted that the Pope of Christian Unity, Benedict XVI, gave us Anglicanorum coetibus by which Anglicans can be welcomed into the Catholic Church and they can retain their heritage.  I am sure their ranks will now swell.

Even more urgent today is the need for the Church of England to issue their own document Romanorum coetibus, by which they can welcoming into their “ecclesial community” (remember, according to Dominus Iesus they don’t have a real Church because they don’t have valid apostolic succession), all the dissident Catholics who, rebelling against the Magisterium, desire to keep their most treasured customs.  There in the embrace of the Anglicans they can have their clay pot chalices and burlap banners, their ditties and rainbow stoles, free from the interferences of patriarchal oppression.

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QUESTION FOR READERS: Our Lady of Clergy image – in Paris?

I have for years had an image of Our Lady of the Clergy, Notre-Dame du Clergé, on this blog. See the sidebar.

Right now I have a special reason to ask her to stick by me and a few other priests I know.

I think this image may be in Paris, but I don’t know where.

What can you amazing people come up with?

Often, if I ask a question, someone out there has the answer, or finds it.

The writing on the card says that it was painted by J.M. Breton. It also says Procure Général which leads me to think that it may be in a mother house of an order, perhaps called after Our Lady of the Clergy, or something that has to do with Queen of Priests, etc.

While I am in Paris, I’d like to see the original, if possible.

In the meantime, perhaps you good readers would be so kind as to ask Our Lady of the Clergy to intercede on behalf of a few priests whom I know who are seriously beset in these… trying times.

Posted in SESSIUNCULA | Tagged , | 26 Comments

PARIS – Day 5: Miraculous Edition

Pro sacerdote vel laico

O Mater pietatis et misericordiae, beatissima Virgo Maria, ego miser et indignus peccator ad te confugio toto corde et affectu; et precor pietatem tuam, ut, sicut dulcissimo Filio tuo in Cruce pendenti astitisti, ita et mihi, misero peccatori, et sacerdotibus omnibus, hic et in tota sancta Ecclesia hodie offerentibus, clementer adsistere digneris, ut, tua gratia adiuti, dignam et acceptabilem hostiam in conspectu summae et individuae Trinitatis offerre valeamus. Amen.

Today I spent quite some time in the famous chapel on the Rue du Bac. I had quite a list of things and people.



A visit to the chapel of the Congregation of the Missions was not lacking.  There we venerated the holy remains of St. Vincent de Paul.



To feed the body as well as the soul there was nothing to do but go to the vast épicerie of the Bon Marche also in the rue du Bac.  Aisle after aisle of exquisite things.  There are little snack bars within, specialising in regional or material items.   Just a few moments to get a sense of the visual impact.





Lunch was found and we fended off death by starvation.

We also made a visit to the vast hulk of a place called Saint-Sulpice.


This church is getting more than a little shabby.  It needs serious maintenance and cleaning.   However grotty it is right now, the organ is not.  They were tuning it while we were in there.   Great organists such as Widor and Dupre played here.

Charles Baudelaire said of the place: “Le merveilleux nous envelope et nous abreuve comme l’atmosphère mais nous ne le voyons pas.”

Now I must ask: What’s wrong with this picture?


Here is something very cool.

When I was in Rome I mentioned that churches were sometimes the locations of astronomical clocks.  The build was turned into a “camera” which could project an image of the sun through a tiny hole in the wall or ceiling onto a meridian line which indicated noon at different days of the year as the sun “moved” through its analemma. Saint-Sulpice has an astronomical gnomon (the meridian line on the floor and wall) which helps to identify the date of Easter.


Here is the inscription.  Note that the section which mentions the involvement of the King has been chisled out.  This is technically called a damnatio memoriae, whereby it is sought to eradicate the memory of certain people.  It was a common technique, along with invective and beheading long before the National Schismatic Reporter came along.



If there are churches and prayers, there also have to be food photos.

We were at a place just up the street from where we are staying. I have had my eye on it for days, since I have that inner antenna that seems to find good places. However, since we are also really tired, I thought it might be nice simply to feel along the wall for a short way to the hotel door.

To start: Onion soup.


I think I shall ever associate onion soup with Michael Voris, at whose home I have been a guest a couple times for nice meals.  Michael is a real gentleman.  I was there a couple years back now, for Christmas I believe.  He and some of his staff (two of whom met through my internet work years ago and then married) made onion soup.  The soup was tremendously good, but the making of the soup was so… pervasive in the house, that I literally had to get my suit dry-cleaned the next day.   Yum.  But… whew.   Tonight’s, all of the bonus and none of the onus.

Fois gras.  There is a nice savoury chutney by it.  That other stuff… the green stuff… I’ve seen it before, too.


I had Boeuf Bourgignon.  It was exactly how I wanted it to be and three heads and shoulders higher than the stuff I had the other night.


I am now inspired to make BB when I get home and invite a couple priest friends.


Yes, there was more bread nearby.


I helped out with some chicken that came with black truffle mashed potatoes.   It was a sacrifice.




That bottle in the background is a 1993 Graves.



10 yr Calvados.  You can… I could at least… taste the apples.


Now, I am back in my room, for compline and then some worrying and praying for some friends who are in a tight spot right now.


Posted in Look! Up in the sky!, On the road, What Fr. Z is up to | Tagged , , , , , , | 19 Comments

Wherein Benedict XVI is now channeling his inner Augustine

You probably know that Benedict XVI’s life’s works as a theologian are being edited and released in different volumes.   Ignatius Press has the publishing rights for English.  His volume on Liturgy is available.  HERE

In German another volume has been issued.

In this volume he mentions, in his newly written forward, that he has rethought and changed him mind about a 1972 essay he had concerning Communion for the divorced and civilly remarried.  Previously, he had not closed the door to this possibility.  Now, he thinks he was wrong back then.

This is a burning issue today, of course.

And so the former Pope – how weird is that to write – is going to be implicated in the debate about Communion for the civilly remarried.

What is important to remember, however, before people on the Left and on the Right start with their respective spittle-flecked nutties, is that… changing your mind is exactly what theologians do when they are looking back at their life’s work.

I bring to your attention the example of St. Augustine of Hippo, whom Ratzinger studied closely.  Late in life, Augustine reviewed his vast, and I mean vast, body of work and, in a volume called the Retractations, he made observations and corrections of his previous work.  In other words, he reviewed and he said when and where he got things wrong.

That’s what theologians do.

They get things wrong and they correct things after they have had time to work on them and think them through and, often, gather more information.

But just watch how the catholic Left, especially, will try to spin this.  It’ll go something along the lines of “The Pope Emeritus is entering the fray against Card. Kasper!” or, for the truly weird, “Did Card. Burke put the Pope Emeritus up to this?”, and even “Benedict, who promised he was going to be a good little monk in his garden convent, has broken his word!  He’s being political!”

Believe me, it’ll get crazy.

When and if you read some of the loony stuff, remember: St. Augustine’s Retractations.

This is what old theologians do.

Posted in Benedict XVI, One Man & One Woman, Patristiblogging | Tagged , , , , | 27 Comments