From a reader…
QUAERITUR:
What on earth is going on with a new document that will ban the TLM (Traditional Latin Mass)? You seem quiet. Don’t you worry about this?
This question represents many notes I’ve received. I’ll answer this. I’ll tell you what I think could happen. I’ll give advice to seminarians and potential seminarians, lay people in general, and priests.
Don’t I worry about this? Yes, and no.
Yes, I worry about this, because the powers that be are going to hurt a great number of innocent people.
No, I don’t worry about this, because worrying won’t help.
All analogies limp, but this is a good reminder: a scene in the movie Bridge of Spies.
This analogy breaks down in that the cold war era Soviet spy on trial really is guilty of a crime and those who want to have traditional worship are not guilty of anything but reverence. They are – as is more and more evident – far more sinned against than sinning.
Nevertheless the response from the Russian spy about “bosses” and about worrying seem apt in the Church today. We have our “bosses” too, don’t we.
I have cited that movie clip before. Freaking out and running around with your hair on fire because something might happen, even is going to happen is not helpful.
We must stay frosty and focused.
If anything, ramp up your prayer life and mortifications.
Pray for those who have attacked you and who will attack you again.
I’ll repeat that. They will attack you again. In another of my vintage “classic” posts riffing on the “Laws of the House of God” (about a hospital in Boston), I cite the Laws of the legendary “Fat Man”. Law 8: “They can always hurt you more.”
We have to get our heads into a place that will help us to maintain our cool and balance in a storm or wave of storms.
Mental and spiritual preparation beforehand is needed.
After the last stab at at the hearts of those attracted to Tradition, I said that it was probable that there would be another round of pogroms in the Church.
It’s the people they want to crush even more than the rites. They fear and despise the people.
From where I sit and from what I read and hear, we must stay cool. We must stay cool and we must plan.
I’ve written here before about house chapels. You know what to do. Get your “thing” together.
I say this because I firmly believe that, if and when another anti-Vetus Ordo edict is issued, the attack will be on diocesan priests with threats in the back channels against diocesan bishops. Think of at least one bishop who was shot on the deck of his ship, “pour encourager les autres”.
To back up for a moment, I wrote for years and years and years that the true movement of reform would not start until the diocesan priests started saying the Vetus Ordo. That would have a massive effect on their identity, their understanding of themselves as priests at the altar. In turn that would have a knock on effect on the people in the pews, because their priests would be saying Mass, preaching and behaving differently.
So long as the Vetus Ordo was confined to a few places operated by specialist groups such as the FSSP and ICK – and there’s nothing wrong with them – the Vetus Ordo wasn’t much a a threat. It was hated by the deep church but it was sort of like, in Star Trek, how the Borg didn’t activate and become hostile until they perceived you as a threat. The Vetus Ordo grew. The threat was that the Vetus Ordo would become mainstream in diocesan parishes. From 2007 when Summorum Pontificum came out, there were some 50 places where the TLM was present. Ten years later, there were 500. The Borg activated.
I address myself to traditionally-minded young men thinking about the seminary.
Gentlemen, it could be a good idea before the really bad times start to learn a trade. I don’t know if this might entail night school or crash courses or whatever. Don’t be dreamy about this. Consider plumbing, electrical work, technical positions, EMT, etc. Be practical. (Learning Chinese might be practical too, if you think about it.)
I write to lay people who might be in a position to help in what I am about to suggest.
Progroms against tradition and traditionally-minded Catholics strike at the heart of the Church herself. The knock-on effects of these cruel measures, present and future, will only result in negative ripple-effects that accelerate the widening of the demographic sink hole into which swathes of Catholics are falling.
I write to priests.
Fathers, it might not be a bad idea to acquire some property where you can live. Believe me. Something you own, where no one (you know who I mean) can throw you out. You can always sell it or pass it on.
A key to this is to stay cool and to plan. Do not fret. We are not without means and without creativity. Slamming doors in the faces of those who love Tradition will result in the opening of windows in another part of the house.
Let no one freak out about this new slate of bad news. BE WARY of the videos of the Johnny-come-lately pundits. Just because they are newcomers doesn’t mean that they are wrong. But some of us have already been there.
We must stay calm and soldier on.
I’ll return to a theme I hammer at. Prepare home chapels. It might be realistic project to network and buy a church. After all, they are being closed everywhere. It can always be used just for catechesis, recitation of the Rosary, and other devotions. No one would ever suggest that it be set up as a counterpoint to the few diocesan parishes remaining after the powers that be crush the Vetus Ordo in parishes.
Do I think that things will be this bad? I think we are better off prepared, than not. You will, moever, never regret having acquired those practical skills, having that home chapel, that church, or that private property.
Finally, before any other shoe drops, for the love of all that is holy, do all that you can to augment the numbers of people frequenting the Traditional Latin Mass whenever and wherever it is celebrated. Be inviting. Coax, urge, cajole. Smile and offer to ride. It is very important that everyone sees that TLMs are well-attended and growing. If you are not doing something, every week, to try to help this, then if something bad happens where you are, you had best not utter a word. We are in this together and we need you.
If the pogrom doesn’t come? GOOD. You will have maintained your cool and have benefited in the meantime, spiritually and temporally, without having made foolish mistakes.
Also, the Enemy’s hand in this. Go to confession. Be sure you are clean, that you mind is clear, and that your actions are meritorious.
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Good advice, all around.
What I cannot understand, in the midst of falling Church participation in the Mass of Pope St. Paul VI (Novus Ordo), why crush participation in the Mass of Pope St. John XXIII (my term for Vetus Ordo in the 1962 liturgical reform), where participation is growing?
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Saint110676,
It’s the growing participation in Vetus Ordo that the Modernists can not tolerate. They have come to realize that it’s not just a bunch of nostalgic old folks pining for the Old Mass. The pews are filled with young families.
Saint110676, Signore Grillo answers your question in his recent interview. For a long time, it was said that it was the Catholic “right” that was thought to prefer a smaller, “purer” Catholic Church. Now, Grillo reveals that the Catholic “left” has its own designs for a smaller, “purer” Catholic Church… one that has completely shed its “regressive” Latinate past. Grillo doesn’t consider Latin Mass adherents to be faithful Catholics who need to be kept in the fold but rather a dangerous 5th column that needs to be purged. They’d rather have fewer people in the pews than TLM people in the pews. They’d rather have fewer priests than the wrong sort priests, i.e., those who say the TLM.
First and foremost, I appreciate the mix of advice while avoiding alarmism. As several family members have always taken pains to remind just about everyone, there’s never a good or useful time to panic.
I am also put in mind of a question that was asked elsewhere online about Catholics having these fights – I pointed out that unlike a Protestant in a congregational polity, we /have/ to stand and fight when things get messy.
On a light note, I’ll admit that in the last few days I have mused over whether there aren’t a few dying Episcopalian or Presbyterian church buildings which might be taken over by some of the larger 1962 Missal groups. It would [probably] never happen, but as I grew up there I’ve been musing over the idea of a conversion of Bruton Parish Church in Williamsburg being triggered. A bit of a sidebar, but being exceedingly high church actually complicated my conversion as a teenager, because I grew up with that alongside the trite Novus Ordo services you’d rather expect in a school in the 1990s – I was utterly confused at the /lack/ of kneeling, the incredibly weak catechism (a teacher in elementary school once emphasized that Vatican II was only the second Vatican Council…I wish I’d had the state of mind then to ask what she thought of Trent), and so on. A friend a few years older than me and I had a long conversation at my 16th birthday party, and I formally converted a few years later (with the surprising support of my Southern Baptist grandmother, who was just thrilled that I found a church I was at home in).
More seriously, and sincerely, a few things do come to mind:
(1) How viable would it be for those considering the seminary to consider shifting from a “normal” seminary to FSSP (and I use FSSP without loss of generality)? I suspect that resources are the biggest issue here, but I’m also encouraged by the fact that in many major cities I can find an FSSP parish now.
(2) Presuming that we end up having to face a “home church” approach (either outside of e.g. FSSP or alongside it [with this being a fallback in cases where such was simply not available]), how would the position of priests offering Mass differ from either stand-alone sede folks or SSPX (and I know that their relative positions differ significantly)? The Spanish phrase “obedezco pero no cumplo” (I obey but I do not comply) is my instinctive sense of this situation. I ask this with the inherent presumption that the “home church” masses are being done in opposition to the local bishop.
Put differently, how do we avoid being in schism? I distinguish, of course, between “being in schism” from “being accused of being in schism by a fairly open heretic” (Grillo, not Francis, to be clear – and I am well aware that we can take the view that the Pope is making ill-advised decisions without being in schism).
(3) I realize that Eastern Catholic Divine Liturgy is not the Vetus Ordo, but what are your thoughts on it as a stable backup option for regular Sunday worship? I ask because, from what I can tell, there are some complicated political matters and sticky history that seem likely to insulate those churches from Vatican interference – if nothing else, strongarming them into messing with those liturgies would likely set back dialogue with the East. I specifically wonder this because there’s a Byzantine Catholic parish that I have as an option (and said parish has the added bonus of being about two blocks from my favorite Asian buffet).
Of course, this last point brings to mind concerns of how it would play out if one Sunday morning 20,000 of us all started rolling up to those churches – the last thing I think we’d want to be doing is adversely affecting /their/ parish situations.
Thank you again for the detailed advice!
Thank you, thank you Father Z.
There have been places that never stopped saying the TLM after VaticanII. We belong to one of them. Families would drive for miles on Sundays to pray the Mass. Some familes would drive early from other states and stay with local families, bonds that have continued to this day.
Pope Francis accusing Bishop Vigano of causing schism. Vigano, Pavone,and others are doing nothing wrong, to the contrary. People who attend the TLM put their money where the TLM is. Churches that say the NO and the TLM are in the red. Churches and Priest need money to survive. TLM people do this.
It used to be that during Peter’s Pence the Cardinal, Archbishop or Bishop set a financial goal for the parishes. In recent years, at least in Marxachusetts, the Parishes are given a goal. If they don’t make it, it turns into a monthly bill until it is paid. Gives a new meaning to Tithe.
correction..I meant to say ” TLM churches in the BLACK”
I wish that Diocesan Priests who offer both the Vetus Ordo and the Novus Ordo had a.) spent the past three years getting together so that they could coordinate and plan as a group and b.) preached the importance of the Vetus Ordo to their Novus Ordo parishioners at every conceivable opportunity (even those who love the N.O. and will only ever attend the N.O. should have had it drummed in their head that the N.O. would not and cannot exist at all if it weren’t for the Vetus Ordo)
Alas, it seems that in my diocese this didn’t happen, even a little bit.
a.) did not happen because while our diocesan priests often have a very full load, more importantly there seems to be a permanent conflict of egos and an air of distrust preventing any serious collaboration on this front – it likely wasn’t helped by some priests eagerly taking on duties as the diocesan inquisitor, to ensure T.C. was being following by both letter and spirit. It was also sad to see prominent priests in our diocese with much charisma and leadership skills who were devoted to the Vetus Ordo . . . just sit on their hands and not say or do anything.
b.) This also did not happen, to the best of my knowledge, and it really seems like most Diocesan priests treat their N.O. congregation and their Vetus Ordo parishioners as two separate churches.
Meanwhile, trying to raise kids, especially young kids, with a strong Faith and a Devotion to the Liturgy while NOT leading them down the path of cynicism and anger while our own bishops and cardinals and the pope prepare to toss us out of the only parish they’ve known their entire lives . . . it’s a pretty difficult tightrope to walk.
It is apparent that the “bosses” in the Latin Church, specifically those in charge of the Curial offices, are “of the world” and not “in the world”. While I’ve only been to one TLM in my life, and I didn’t understand the Latin, it was a beautiful expression of our faith. During a college visit with my son to UCF, I went to the nearest Catholic Church for Mass, and it happened to be the TLM that I found.
I don’t attend the TLM and am a diocesan deacon at a NO parish, but I recognize the extreme beauty and reverence in the TLM. It is very clear that the bosses don’t like that, since attendance there must mean that the attendees are not on the same page as the “of the world” types. The “bosses” don’t like that and will do whatever it takes to eradicate those who love tradition.
To answer the question, why are they doing this, I have to believe that they’d rather destroy the church than uphold it. These are men who are of Satan in my view. I love the military term “stay frosty” – a very apropos term!
Speaking of learning a trade, the Diocese of Springfield (Illinois) just announced plans to create a Catholic trade school to be named the San Damiano College for the Trades. Here’s Bp. Thomas John Paprocki and others describing the project:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rquP-gR4kmE
“Put differently, how do we avoid being in schism? I distinguish, of course, between “being in schism” from “being accused of being in schism by a fairly open heretic” (Grillo, not Francis, to be clear – and I am well aware that we can take the view that the Pope is making ill-advised decisions without being in schism).”
I also wonder about this.
I definitely don’t think the Vetus Ordo is in any way “bad” (quite the opposite), but am willing to wait out any bad decrees on the Latin Mass while attending the Novus Ordo in the meantime if necessary (if that is what is required to not sin). Explanation and theological/canon law backup from Fr. Z (not random combox apologist) on what a faithful Catholic may do and why might be helpful.
2006, hmmm? That’s one from the wayback file.
I’ll have to look up that book. Being in Boston and having dealt with some of the hospitals (or what’s left), though I didn’t live in the area until 25 years later than the book – I confess a certain morbid curiosity as to whether I’d recognize any particular place or just archetypes.
According to LifeSiteNews, Archbishop Cordileone of San Francisco plans to celebrate the TLM at the National Eucharistic Conference in Indiana in July.
HERE
Nobody has ever won a war on defense. Read The Art of War by Sun Tsu, general, warrior philosopher. What is written in the book is an amazing guide on how to bring Mother Church back from the brink of the satanists-er, modernists.
If they who are presently in charge really try to put the kibosh on the traditional Mass for good and all, won’t that ultimately mean declaring the excommunication of anyone who insists on still preserving it?
Those devoted to the old Mass might be the minority in this present generation, but not across all generations throughout history. If they declare the excommunication of all those who preserve the Mass of tradition, would that not itself be an act of schism as seeking to excommunicate the whole Church?
JustaSinner says: Nobody has ever won a war on defense.
Quintus Fabius Maximus Cunctator, imitated by George Washington.
Wait… defend… avoid… defend… wait…. STRIKE.
Only Christ knew of the results of his betrayal by Judas.
He was not worried.
I am not anywhere near Christ but I do have faith he knows what he is doing!
Avoid, defend, avoid, defend…STRIKE. HMM, the strike being an offense and proving the point that defense does not win wars.
Every day God sustains us is a blessing. When we wake up and see the sunshine, do we say, “Thank you God, for this sunrise”? It could have been otherwise. “Thank you God, that the laws of physics persist.” It could have been otherwise. Perhaps the sun did not rise, or we were twisted into some other form.
~Anita Moore, O.P.(lay) —> If they who are presently in charge really try to put the kibosh on the traditional Mass for good and all, won’t that ultimately mean declaring the excommunication of anyone who insists on still preserving it?
Excommunication isn’t necessary. Remove the bishops that permit it. Dismantle the FSSP/ICKSP by, because there is a priest shortage, necessitating that those priests do NO masses in diocesean parishes. Have the majority of their masses be NO. After a time fold those orders into the diocese converting them to NO priests. Issue a document that SSPX masses do not fulfill Sunday obligations for those confirmed in the NO if there is a NO available. Trump up some charge of disobedience on the SSPX and take away the faculties of their bishops and priests to say Mass, i.e. use interdict instead of excommunication.
The Vatican is not that smart though, so what will be done will be some hamfisted thing that they think is clever.
@Lurker 59
They did something similar with the House of Hohenstaufen. Then they ended up being, essentially, court chaplains to the Kings of France for 70 or so years.
The Church has a long historical memory.
No one would ever suggest that it be set up as a counterpoint to the few diocesan parishes remaining after the powers that be crush the Vetus Ordo in parishes.
Speaking of counterpoint, old churches have excellent acoustics. You can help pay for them by renting them out for sacred concerts and organ recitals. You can and should also use them to gather the competent musicians and develop a choir dedicated to singing sacred polyphony. If anyone complains, tell them you’re following Vatican II.
To those who do not have access to the TLM:
When at Mass always “dare to say” the Our Father (and the doxology) in Latin — loudly and confidently.
It will send a message to the clergy, who cannot do anything to stop it. The laity are permitted to pray the Our Father in any approved translation. After a few weeks in a row, others will start to join in.
Praying the Our Father in Latin is in direct obedience to Vatican II (See Sacrosanctum Concilium, 36 and 54 “the faithful may also be able to say or to sing together in Latin those parts of the Ordinary of the Mass which pertain to them.”) and to the General Instruction of the Roman Missal at paragraph 41 (“Since faithful from different countries come together ever more frequently, it is fitting that they know how to sing together at least some parts of the Ordinary of the Mass in Latin, especially the Creed and the Lord’s Prayer, set to the simpler melodies.).