ASK FATHER: Father omits both “for all” and “for many” from the consecration of the Precious Blood. Wherein Fr. Z rants.

Yesterday I posted a response to a question about the validity of Mass if a priest says “for all” instead of “for many” in the English version of the Novus Ordo.  HERE

That raised a question in the combox so serious that I must make another post.

QUAERITUR:

Suppose the priest says:

“for you, for the forgiveness of sins”

omitting both “for all” and “for many”?

I wish this were a hypothetical question. [!!!]

The fact that the questioner added “I wish this were a hypothetical question” alarms me.

In the Novus Ordo, the essential forms of the two-fold consecration are a) over the Host “Hoc est enim Corpus meum” and b) over the wine in the chalice “Hic est enim calix Sanguinis mei, novi et aeterni testament, qui pro vobis et pro multis effundetur, in remissionem peccatorum”.  In the present English translation: “[For] this is my Body” and “[For] this is the chalice of my Blood, the Blood of the new and eternal covenant, which will be poured out for you and for many, for the forgiveness of sins”.

These two phrases are the essential forms.  The other bits, such as “In a similar way, when supper was ended, he took this precious chalice…” are not of the essence.  “For” is not essential (which doesn’t not mean “not important”). The only words which are strictly necessary are those which signify transubstantiation of both the Host and of the Precious Blood individually as well as the sacrifice for both the Host and Precious Blood together.

St. Thomas Aquinas explains this in STh III, 78 (also III, 60, a.8 and Super I Cor, c. 11, v. 25).  That explanation of course deals with the wording of the Vetus Ordo including “mysterium fidei“, hoisted out of the form of consecration in direct disobedience to Council Fathers’ mandate in Sacrosanctum Concilium 23 that “Finally, there must be no innovations unless the good of the Church genuinely and certainly requires them; and care must be taken that any new forms adopted should in some way grow organically from forms already existing.”  The “mysterium fidei” issue is another question entirely which space does not allow for here.

If a priest does not say the essential words of consecration the Mass is invalid.  It might be that just one species is consecrated or neither are.  Either way, Mass is invalid.

What if Father gets confused and mixes up part of the old translation with the new?  What if he says “cup” instead of “chalice” or “all” instead of “many”?  Won’t that invalidate the consecration?

No.  These defects, though serious, do not change the essential meaning of the forms.

Leaving out “pro multis” completely in the Latin would invalidate. Leaving out completely the English rendering of “pro multis” (either “for all” or more accurately “for many”) would invalidate the consecration.

The omission changes the essential meaning of the consecratory form.

If the priest is doing this regularly, that is intentionally, he must immediately be informed about what he is doing and the bishop must be alerted.  

For the sake of completeness, if a priest realizes or suspects that he did something wrong in the two-fold consecration, he ought immediately to stop and pronounce the proper form over both or either of the two species to be consecrated.  Then he should return to the point in Mass where he left off.

All seminarians and priests would be wise to learn well the De Defectibus section at the beginning of the Vetus Ordo Missale Romanum.  This section was intentionally excluded from the Novus Ordo editions.

The rationale for that was, I think, that these were matters of moral theology.

The result of that was disastrous for the ars celebrandi of priests and for the knock-on effect that had on congregations.

What is crucial to understand is that De Defectibus said that some defects, abuses, were mortal sins.  The combination of removing the concept of sin from straying from rubrics or defects in matter and form, along with the vagueness of Novus Ordo rubrics and the prevalence of “options” for actions and texts, greatly eroded the Novus Ordo’s continuity with the Vetus Ordo to the point one can legitimately argue that they are two different Rites.

Here’s an example from De Defectibus (in translation):

V. 1. DEFECTS may arise in respect of the formula, if anything is wanting to complete the actual words of consecration. The words of consecration, which are the formative principle of this Sacrament, are as follows: Hoc est enim Corpus meum; and: Hic est enim calix Sanguinis mei, novi et aeterni testamenti; mysterium fidei, [Vetus Ordo] qui pro vobis et pro multis effundetur in remissionem peccatorum. If any omission or alteration is made in the formula of consecration of the Body and Blood, involving a change of meaning, the consecration is invalid. An addition made without altering the meaning does not invalidate the consecration, but the Celebrant commits a mortal sin.

If it does change the meaning and it does invalidate, how much more is it a mortal sin?

This matter of options is taken up, inter alia, in

Does Traditionis Custodes Pass the Juridical Rationality Test?

by Fr. Réginald-Marie Rivoire FSVF and Fr. William Barker FSSP

US HERE – UK HERE

 

A note of CAUTION: Lay people, with a few exceptions, are not adequately formed or informed such that they should interrupt Mass.  Most of the time, and I say this from experiential knowledge as well as sincere respect, they don’t know what they don’t know*.  Alas, the internet age (and the age of hand missals before that) have given some well-meaning and zealous Catholics (YouTubers are not an exception to this) a false sense of how well-informed they truly are in these matters, the details of which are important.  Moreover, there’s the critical point of knowing how to proceed in a concrete situation such that the very best outcome is obtained.  There’s an art to that in ecclesiastical contexts.

*Priests are not automatically to be excluded from this these days.

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A new kind of “Motu Proprio”?

I’m pickin’ up good vibrationsShe’s giving me the excitations (oom bop bop)I’m pickin’ up good vibrations (good vibrations, oom bop bop)She’s giving me the excitations (excitations, oom bop bop)I’m pickin’ up good vibrations (oom bop bop)She’s giving me the excitations (excitations, oom bop bop)I’m pickin’ up good vibrations (oom bop bop)She’s giving me the excitations (excitations)

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If you are wondering what this is all about, it seems that Francis has asked non-believers of the French organization Leaders pour la Paix to send “good vibes” in lieu of prayers.  HERE on LifeSite, which article takes a rather dim view of this request.

Perhaps those vibes could come in “New Improved Full Dimensional Stereo”!

One of my interlocutors remarked:

I didn’t get a Jesuitical education. What exactly is the theological status of a vibe?

LifeSite’s story explained what these “vibes” might be.

Dear readers… don’t send any vibes.  Donations and Christmas cards are welcome, however, along with items on my wish list.

Na na na na na, na na naNa na na na na, na na na (bop bop-bop-bop-bop, bop)Do do do do do, do do do (bop bop-bop-bop-bop, bop)Do do do do do, do do do (bop bop-bop-bop-bop, bop)

 

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Daily Rome Shot 600, (Christmas cards, etc.)

600. Whew.

Meanwhile, …

White to move and, with tactics, gain material and be just winning.

NB: Comments with solutions are held ’till the next day to avoid “spoilers”.

Interested in learning?  Try THIS.

By the by, it looks like one of you chess interested readers bought a ChessUp board from Chess House (on sale). I hope you enjoy it as much as I do. If it is a gift, someone is going to be happy.

Fraternity of St. Peter seminarians singing Christmas music. Not a bad gift idea.

By FSSP seminarians

Speaking of Christmas, use my links for online shopping.

US HERE – UK HERE

And please …

Send your snail-mail 2022 CHRISTMAS CARDS!

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ASK FATHER: Does “for all” instead of “for many” make the Mass invalid? Should I receive Communion if I doubt validity?

From a reader…

QUAERITUR:

My schedule required me to attend a lunchtime Novus Ordo near my office today.  The priest (I believe intentionally) modified the Eucharistic Prayer, employing the old “for all” translation of pro multis.

As far as I can tell, the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith agree that, “There is no doubt whatsoever regarding the validity of Masses celebrated with the use of a duly approved formula containing a formula equivalent to ‘for all'”.

Since this formula is no longer duly approved though, was the Mass valid?  If I doubt the validity of a Mass, should I refrain from presenting myself to receive communion?

Just one of the many advantages of Mass in Latin is that it keeps the ad libbing to a minimum.

Rest at ease, the Mass was valid.  Father Jackass’s personal preference which, out of selfish clericalism he imposed on the congregation, did not invalidate the consecration.

Should you receive Communion when you doubt the validity of the Mass?  If you truly cannot say that you think the Mass is valid, then you should not go up for Communion.  If you are thinking “That’s just bread… that’s just wine”, then reception of that “just wine… just bread” would be a sin.

Mind you, if the priest stuck to the proper form of consecration for the Host, the Body of Christ, but then said something that would be invalid for the wine (which did not transubstantiate into the Precious Blood), then receiving the Host you would indeed be receiving the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ.  However, it wouldn’t technically be a Mass because of the invalid second consecration (and therefore separation of the Blood from the Body, etc.).  In that case, Father Invalidator would have consecrated one species of the Eucharist outside of Mass which is about the worst canonical crime a priest can commit, called in the Latin Code “nefas” (“monstrous, abominable” – can. 927).  If he did that wittingly, and it could be demonstrated through proofs, the bishop ought move swiftly to impose censures.  Moreover, something would have to be done about any Mass stipends received for those non-Masses.  A great deal of work would be needed to repair the terrible scandal.

 

 

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Daily Rome Shot 600, etc.

Meanwhile,….

White to move and win material.

NB: I’ll hold comments with solutions ’till the next day so there won’t be “spoilers” for others.

Interested in learning?  Try THIS.   You might check out a “freebie”, too.  HERE

Your use of my Amazon affiliate link is a major part of my income. It helps to pay for insurance, groceries, everything. Please remember me when shopping online. Thanks in advance.  US HERE – UK HERE

I created a search link at wdtprs dot com slash shop dot htm

Enter anything at all, what you are looking for, and search.  You might get a window that “The information you’re about to submit is not secure”. Ignore that and “send anyway”.

Wine from the Benedictine monks of Le Barroux, from the ancient papal vineyards in Provence, would be a nice Christmas gift.  10% off with my code: FATHERZ10

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Tota pulchra es, Maria

Happy Feast of the Immaculate Conception!

Here’s something beautiful for Our Lady.

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When I was in seminary in Rome, the rector called everyone to the chapel and personally taught all the men this chant.

Here’s another version which I love, by Maurice Durufle.

YouTube thumbnailYouTube icon

If some choir were to surprise me with this – sung well – on a Marian feast during Mass, I might either burst into tears or expire on the spot.

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Happy 17th Birthday to the Blog!

Happy 17th birthday to this blog.

I cannot say adequately how grateful I am to you, especially long-time readers.  It’s like a parish which has developed over the years.

To my benefactors, those who have been sending ad hoc or monthly donations by subscription or items from my wishlist.  Lately I have been saying daily Mass regularly for your intention, a couple times a week (virtually everyday when I was in Rome).

The way I figure it, since I now rely on you more than ever, more than ever I raise your intention to God at the altar and I do so with great pleasure and gratitude.

That first post, 17 years ago.

It was a cold winter evening in Rome…

… I posted this photo, taken from my apartment window.


Here is a shot across the City on the night that His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI was elected to succeed the late Pope John Paul II as Bishop of Rome and Vicar of Christ. It is not very often that the Apostolic Palace is also illuminated in the manner we see in this photo.

St. Peter's and Apostolic Palace - 19 April 2005


Posted in Just Too Cool, Lighter fare, Linking Back |
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NOVENA for the Immaculate Conception (8 Dec): Day 9 – FINAL

Today is the 9th and Final Day for a Novena before the Feast of the Immaculate Conception.

Will you participate?  Even if you are late to starting, that’s okay!  Start anyway.  And remember that there is no one way to observe this Novena.  But here’s one way.

GIVE SOME THOUGHT TO AN INTENTION.

Suggestions for intentions:

  • the overturning of Traditionis custodes.
  • an increase of vocations to the priesthood.
  • the miraculous healing of a sick loved one.
  • conquering a principal fault.
  • the return of a fallen away Catholic through practice by confession and Communion.
  • that your bishop will be manifestly courageous and faithful.

Day 9- Final:

O God, who by the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary,  did prepare a worthy dwelling place for Your Son,  we beseech You that, as by the foreseen death of this, Your Son, You did preserve Her from all stain,  so too You would permit us, purified through Her intercession, to come unto You.  Through the same Lord Jesus Christ, Your Son, who lives and reigns with You in the unity of the Holy Spirit,  God, world without end.  Amen.

O Mother of the King of the Universe, most perfect member of the human race, ‘our tainted nature’s solitary boast, ‘ we turn to you as mother, advocate, and mediator. O Holy Mary, assist us in our present necessity. By your Immaculate Conception, O Mary conceived without sin, we humbly beseech you from the bottom of our heart to intercede for us with your Divine Son and ask that we be granted the favor for which we now plead…

 (State your intention here… )

O Mary of the Immaculate Conception, Mother of Christ, you had influence with your Divine Son while upon this earth; you have the same influence now in heaven. Pray for us and obtain for us from him the granting of my petition if it be the Divine Will.  Amen.

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Daily Rome Shot 599, etc.

Meanwhile,…

Black to move and win material.

NB: I may hold comments with puzzle solutions a little longer than others so there won’t be “spoilers” for others.

Interested in learning?  Try THIS.  He has helped my game.  Yesterday at OTB chess I won all my games decisively, garnering three exclamations of “Good move!” from one of the manifestly strongest players.

I’ve been using this board, which is sharpening my OTB game. It’s one thing to play on a screen and another to have a board in front of you.  Chess House has the ChessUp board on sale for $349 (instead of $399) with free shipping.  HERE

Click!

You can always go to Chess House and rummage around.

The Summit Dominican’s are still taking orders through 17 December at which time they will close their shop’s shutters and focus on the end of Advent. Great stocking-stuffer potential.

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NOVENA for the Immaculate Conception (8 Dec): Day 8

Today is the 8th Day for a Novena before the Feast of the Immaculate Conception.

Will you participate?  Even if you are late to starting, that’s okay!  Start anyway.  And remember that there is no one way to observe this Novena.  But here’s one way.

GIVE SOME THOUGHT TO AN INTENTION.

Suggestions for intentions:

  • the overturning of Traditionis custodes.
  • an increase of vocations to the priesthood.
  • the miraculous healing of a sick loved one.
  • conquering a principal fault.
  • the return of a fallen away Catholic through practice by confession and Communion.
  • that your bishop will be manifestly courageous and faithful.

Day 8:

O God, who by the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary,  did prepare a worthy dwelling place for Your Son,  we beseech You that, as by the foreseen death of this, Your Son, You did preserve Her from all stain,  so too You would permit us, purified through Her intercession, to come unto You.  Through the same Lord Jesus Christ, Your Son, who lives and reigns with You in the unity of the Holy Spirit,  God, world without end.  Amen.

O Most gracious Virgin Mary, beloved Mother of Jesus Christ, our Redeemer, intercede with him for us that we be granted the favor which we petition for so earnestly in this novena… O Mother of the Word Incarnate, we feel animated with confidence that your prayers in our behalf will be graciously heard before the throne of God. O Glorious Mother of God, in memory of your joyous Immaculate Conception, hear our prayers and obtain for us our petitions.

 (State your intention here… )

O Mary of the Immaculate Conception, Mother of Christ, you had influence with your Divine Son while upon this earth; you have the same influence now in heaven. Pray for us and obtain for us from him the granting of my petition if it be the Divine Will.  Amen.

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