I got a very useful e-mail which I think it important to pass on to you readers everywhere.
This is from the Latin Mass Society which is in the UK and, I think, Ireland.
They are stressing that bishops of that region are seriously dragging their feet against the implementation of Summorum Pontificum to the end that they will be able to report to the Holy See that there is little or no interest in the older forms of the sacraments. Thus, they are undermining the long-term implemention of Summorum Pontificum, not just the short term.
Thus, the LMS is saying that it is important to establish a paper trail, some statistics which may in fact be more accurate than what some bishops put together.
For what my opinion is worth, I think this is a good idea.
Remember, this is for the UK. Organizations elsewhere may need to be created to see to this for their own regions.
Here is the letter with my emphases and comments.
Dear Latin Mass Society Member,
Provision of the Traditional Mass and Sacraments I am sorry to say the LMS is receiving mixed reports as to the willingness of some bishops to enter into the spirit of the Holy Father’s Motu Proprio, ‘Summorum Pontificum’. While it is early days it is becoming clear that some bishops are ignoring the fact that with the Motu Proprio we have entered a whole new world. [Some bishops are approaching this issue as is Summorum Pontificum didn’t exist and that they still have the authority to permit and forbid all things having to do with the extraordinary use.]
For instance, it is quite clear that the Holy Father foresees that there should be regular parish Masses on Sundays and Holy Days where these are requested or the parish priest prefers, and that personal parishes should be erected where there is a need. [Problem: That definitely is something that bishops do have the authority to do.. or not do, as they see fit.] Several bishops have also instructed their priests to report to them all requests for the Traditional Mass and Sacraments. [I suppose they have that authority, though it seems likely that this is simply a kind of burocratic harassment. I suggest that parish priests in fact do report every single request, no matter how small, even when Mrs Joe Bagodoughnuts wants her rosary blessed. Everything, requesting an ancknowledgement for receipt of the letter.]
As you know, the bishops propose to send a report to Rome in three years time and they are already collecting statistics as to the level of demand. [PAY ATTENTION] No requests equal no demand! Hence it is very important that all LMS members and supporters make formal requests, preferably in writing, [Not "preferably", rather: absolutely. In law, quod non est scriptum non est in mundo.] to their parish priests for regular celebrations of the Traditional Mass and Sacraments.
The procedure as laid down in the Motu Proprio is as follows: [No… yes and no, but what follows is still a good procedure.]
You should approach your parish priest with a request that he offer the Mass and Sacraments to include Sundays and Holy Days. There is NO MENTION in the Motu Proprio of ‘stable groups’ or of minimum numbers, but obviously if you gather together a number of names, [That point is not in the Motu Proprio, but it is entirely reasonable.] this is helpful. Your request to the priest should be in writing, [Again, this is not in the Motu Proprio, but it is not only reasonable, it is necessary I think.] polite and should make no comment about the new rite. [YES! Don’t be snarky in making the request. That becomes part of the record too!] The Motu Proprio asks the priest to accept your request “willingly”. If the priest cannot or will not grant your request you should write to the bishop, again remaining polite and making no comment on the new rite. The Motu Proprio states: “The bishop is strongly requested to satisfy [your] wishes.” If he cannot, he is to refer the matter to the Ecclesia Dei Commission in Rome. You should do so as well in writing and politely.
At this stage, if not before, it is important that you copy all correspondence, including priests’ and bishops’ replies, to the LMS office so we can build up a picture nationwide of what is happening. [Whew! They are willing to take this on! In that case send a donation too!]
Note: The Ecclesia Dei Commission is urgently preparing a document to give guidelines on how the Motu Proprio is to be interpreted. They need to know how bishops are currently interpreting the Motu Proprio. Hence, the LMS will shortly send its own dossier to the Ecclesia Dei Commission to help in their preparation of the document. Our dossier will include an analysis of the bishops’ ad clerums [An Ad clerum is an official notice sent by a diocesan chancery to the clergy of the diocese.] and a file of evidence on how individual requests have been treated. When writing to the LMS please state whether you wish your particular case to be copied by us to Rome. It may be that Rome will divulge details of individual cases to the bishop concerned and you should therefore be prepared to be identified. Please note it is important to make your requests and not leave it to others. The bishops will be collating statistics on requests for the Traditional Mass and Sacraments and may well tell Rome that there is little need for extra provision in England and Wales. We must show this is wrong. Don’t forget to copy your requests to priests and bishops to the LMS office. Hearsay is not sufficient! [That is why it is important to write requests and have zopies of correspondence.]
(You may like to know that the Chairman of the LMS has made a formal request to the Bishops’ Conference of England and Wales for an early meeting to discuss the speedy and full implementation of the Motu Proprio.)
If you need further advice or guidance feel free to contact me in the LMS office.
Yours in Domino,
John Medlin
General ManagerP.S. This letter applies to members in England and Wales only. If you reside in Scotland or Northern Ireland you should liaise with your own national organisation as follows:
Scotland: Una Voce Scotland, Tel: 0131 332 3001
Ireland: Latin Mass Society of Ireland, e mail: plaigh@esatclear.ie
I don’t have a suggestion at this point for a contact organization in the USA. Perhaps in the discussion that follows something will emerge.
Residents of the USA and of Canada, and other places, please feel free to discuss this point, but make your locations plain so that people can follow what is going on. If necessary, I can make another entry to clarify what emerges.
Loading ...
The bishops who drag their feet strike me very much as corrupt politicians who fail to realize they can’t get away with it anymore. In the 21st century and with the advent of the internet, there is no stone which remains. I really hope this takes off, and hopefully Rome will notice that the bishops have been cooking the books.
Fr Z: As a show of strength its important that as many people as possible attend the Pontifical High Mass from the Throne said by Cardinal Castrillon Hoyos at Westminster Cathedral, London on Saturday 14th June at 2.00 p.m. (This is EF of course).
When was this letter issued Father? I recently became a member of the LMS of England and Wales and never received it, maybe a problem I have with my mail which I will need to get fixed if it was sent recently is why I’m asking.
Everyone in England and Wales need to throw their support behind the LMS they are leading the way.
Unity is Strength.
What about Ireland? I don’t think there’s an IFUV affiliate in Ireland at all.
There were two groups but each of them had a row with the IFUV.
In the USA, there’s http://www.unavoce.org.
In Canada, there’s http://www.vancouvertms.com
What about Ireland???
What about statistics for dioceses like Davenport whose policies helpfully include “Locations Near the Diocese of Davenport where the 1962 Missal is used”? The policies are not encouraging to me, and made it clear my family should drive to Des Moines (one hour away).
I think a suggested form letter would be a good idea. I mean, you could always add some pleasantries to make it personal, but a basic body, at least, would be helpful.
I’ll be interested to find out if Una Voce Scotland does anything similar. As an organization, it’s not as active as the LMS.
Habimus Papam, we would really love to go that Mass at Westminster Cathedral. We would probably drive down from Scotland to attend it. Unfortunately, we have a scheduling conflict with a pre-booked holiday in Devon. (We can’t even drive over… we’re leaving that day, with the grandparents, etc….) I’m so sad we can’t go!
Tom – thanks for the link to the US organization. Unfortunately, it’s just my luck that no chapter exists in Georgia! Ah well, at least I’m in the process of trying to get on the Liturgy Council in my local parish. Creating change from the inside out as it were (though I can already imagine the resistance I’m going to be up against from everyone on up to the pastor).
LMS-England & Wales and the LMSI (in Ireland) are completely separate organisations. LMSI has had somewhat stormy relations with FIUV but we are still affiliated with them. Anyone who wants further information on the Extraordinary Form in Ireland can access it at http://www.latinmassireland.org/ The regular reports from our President, Peadar Laighéis, cover not only our own Masses but also those organised by other groups, diocesan initiatives etc.
Éamonn Gaines
Hon. Secretary,
Cumann an Aifrinn Laidinigh/Latin Mass Society of Ireland
There does seem to be a serious problem with bishops in UK, & it would seem in Scotland in particular, where even the new mass in Latin has been forbidden in public for decades. At the recent mass at the cathedral in Glasgow for Papal Nuncio, practically no one in congregation could sing the credo (Credo3). But what of those of us who do not go to our local parishes & have no contact with the clergy at all? This is one of the biggest problems facing folks who want the old Mass or any form of tradition. We are effectively “churchless” We can’t then write to a priest who doesn’t know we exist in his own parish! This is no use, especially on a spiritual level which is after all the main purpose of the thing. Bishops and some others would have it we are all into tradition & Latin liturgy etc for the pomp or for some cultural preference. I prefer to call it the desire for true Catholic worship & when it is not available souls suffer. Look, the churches are near empty. Hardly a month goes by in Glasgow without some parish merger or church closure thru lack of attendance.Why would that be? Apart from the sad fact Children are not getting any proper Catholic education, how are we to expect them to go to a Church they know nothing about? I had to learn the lot myself, even the rosary as I hardly ever got this at school. I learned more about the Church after I left school. That’s almost 35 years now of no effective Catholic teachings & we see the results. The hierarchy must know this is not just about fancy vestments etc and nice chanting for the sake of it. No use them going on about morality if they are not prepared to help folks to live by the Church teachings by giving them effective sacraments and true Catholicism, without which, living the way we are supposed to,especially for young people today is well nigh impossible. (How do they expect young gay men to live by the Church precepts if there is nothing there to help them?) At the end of the day…precious souls are being lost, people are all adrift and the bishops seem not to care. Finally, as for lack of priests, thousands of were turned away because they did want some form of tradition thru the late 1970s & 80s and we now see the reults of that. It will take far more than Benedict XVI using Baroque vestments in Rome to sort this mess out…but it is a start, which I certainly welcome as I do the liturgical changes.
Gordon, Why aren’t you a member of a parish? If you’re in Glasgow, you can join the parish of Sacred Heart and support that licit EF Mass. You can also do what we do, which is to continue to attend Mass at your local parish, even if it means attending two Masses every Sunday. I’m afraid that you’re going to have to put down some roots, and give of yourself to the Church.
I think Traditionalists are often seen as a disgruntled little band of nomads who are only interested in getting sacraments out, but not putting anything in.
Yes, a formal template would be nice. I have it on strong advisement that the archbishop in my Northwest parish is dragging his feet also, while being on the radio each week talking about how important it is for the faithful to obey the church. Amazing.
P.S. I just found a template here:
http://www.unavoce.org./articles/2007/SP_Advice.html
I am from the diocese of Leeds home of the notorious ad clerum deconstructed by Father Z. I am simply not optimistic that writing will serve any purpose at all.
I attend an EF Mass but it remains unadvertised and the celebrating priest has frosty relations with the Bishop.
We have one official EF Mass on Sunday for the entire diocese advertised by the LMS.
Kradcliffe: Just a case of making it as widely known as possible and God Willing if people can make it, great. The Cardinal has accepted this invitation fron LMS and it seems to be Rome’s way of acknowledging the fact that many Engilh Bishops have been “slow on the uptake” regarding Summorum Pontificum. Including His Eminence Murphy-O’Connor!
Gordon: I like your point about effective sacraments. Something many people worry about.
It is vital for all those living in England and Wales show interest in the TLM. There is a new petition to the E & W Bishops politely asking them to provide the TLM where it is requested. It has nothing to do with schismatic groups, is just a simple request. If enough names are collected it could be presented to Cardinal M O’C at the Pontifical High Mass in June.
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/TLM/index.html
I hope people will sign in large numbers.
caesium: the status quo position would seem to be, at most one EF Mass per diocese. Whereas the Holy Father is looking for at least one EF Mass per parish. (How else can the EF influence the OF?). So this Mass at Westminster in June is a God given opportunity to send out a huge message.
Fr. Z, I have a question:
Some members of my parish recently approached the Parish priest to ask for a regular TLM. The priest responded by saying that, while he acknowledged their request and acknowledged their right to the TLM, he did not know how to celebrate it and had never done so. He further commented that learning how to celebrate the TLM with the required proficiency to do it justice would take a massive amount of time, which he felt would be an extravagance given the small level of demand in the parish and the weight of pastoral responsibilities that he has.
I guess my question is this: Okay, so a priest cannot refuse where there is a ‘stable group’ but is he obliged to learn the TLM if he has no knowledge of it whatsoever?
I’m not sure what I think to be honest.
(apologies if this has been answered elsewhere)
There is virtually no hope of assembling a “stable group” where I live. Most priests in this diocese are hostile to the concept and traditional Catholics long ago voted with their feet. Indeed, I have found a flourishing Eastern rite parish with a wonderful priest. Here the Eucharist is treated with awe rather than the irreverence it gets in many Latin rite parishes. I reluctantly have come to the conclusion that there is little hope for the Latin rite in my lifetime. I am tired of fighting with priests and bishops, who always have the upper hand and always win. I am not alone. The majority of parishioners in my little parish were not Eastern rite Catholics by birth; they ended up here after years of disillusionment with the powers that be.
The promulgation of Summorum Pontificum was a noble act on the part of the Holy Father, for whom I have nothing but the deepest admiration. But the forces opposing the Holy Father are deeply entrenched. It will take a miracle for the Divine Liturgy to be restored in the West.
The miracle is happening. There is NO WAY a Curial Cardinal would have come to Westminster to personally offer the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, a Pontifical High Mass until now. This is it, now or never. If you can’t be part of it get out of the way!
The documentation part is very important – especially in certain government circles – and it would be helpful if the denial of a TLM was made in a Parish or Diocese of the US and A. I’ll coin a new phrase – “solo scripto” – “only in writing.” Some folks – akin to those from a protesting persuasion – tend to believe that if something is not in writing or other evidence does not exist, such a fact never happened or can be plausibly denied. E.g. the 12 “viri selecti” If the Faith Community does not publish the names, or gender since non-specific names are part of the local Zeitgeist, the Faith Community was in the spirit of the V2 rocket barrage.
On another note, I don’t know what backlash I’ll get for it, but I’m starting to document a certain lack of things – the Credo – and other inclusions like the “Ode to MLK” or “Eine Feste Burg ist Unser Gott” in mass.
It would be helpful if the paperwork angle was started in the US and A as well for the TLM.
Here in the Diocese of Richmond (VA)the excuse for not promoting the Summorum more is that we already have a parish devoted to the Extraordinary Mass. This is just obfuscation on the diocese’s part. The local paper did a fairly good story about the parish, but that’s been it.
http://www.rc.net/richmond/stjoes/
http://www.stjosephrichmond.org/
Yes, Tod, my archbishop satisfies your description to the “T”. I have been avoiding all his radio broadcasts. I was beginning to wonder if anyone else shares the same opinion. In his response to SUMMORUM PONTIFICUM he introduces Vatican II as if to say that collegiality is equal in weight to the successor to St. Peter as as to lessen the authority of the motu proprio, which has the weight of church law.
The Una Voce International affiliate for Canada is the
Vancouver Traditional Mass Society and their website is located at
http://www.vancouvervtms.com.
All letters to your Bishops across Canada in any Province, requesting access
to the traditional Mass should be copied to David Reid at cascadura@telus.net.
David Reid
Vancouver Traditional Mass Society (VTMS)
Una Voce International Canadian Association (UVICA)
Does e-mailing the Bishop equal “writing” a letter and sticking it in the post box..???
As soon as I read the letter from the Latin Mass Society I e-mailed our Bishop and Parish Priest. We have not been given a single Mass in our neck of the woods. However when the Diocese is at Lourdes in July I suggested that since we are deprived at home maybe we could have a daily Mass at Lourdes. Lets see them wriggle out of that one…!!!!.
I live in a diocese in South Texas. The area is lukewarm toward the EF. We are neither supported, nor repressed by the bishop. I had requested mass in the EF from my parish pastor. I emailed twice and then decided to write a letter since there had been no reply in 2 months. I finally received a a brief e-mail from this pastor, saying he could not accomodate my request because there was not a stable group. I should have realized there was going to be no effort given to my request. I wrote a letter, mailed it,etc. One would expect to rceive a brief type note or some scribble, but nothing just an e-mail. No acknowledment. Sorry, but I can not accomodate your request, since there is no interest. This response came from the parish who has yet to install pews, and kneelers. The congregation stands for the consecration, this is not the norm in the diocese. It is a brand new parish. The church has been open less than 5 years. I continue to be dissapointed. I finally had enough of the irreverence. I continue to pray for my pastor, and the parochial vicar. Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.
The appalling response by the Bishop of Leeds to the SP is a measure of how far things have deteriorated in this diocese. I predict another 30 years of chaos.
The priest who celebrates the EF is more or less doing so in defiance of the Bishop. This is not a pleasant environment in which to practice the Faith. It’s bad enough living in a heavily secularised country like the UK without your Bishop dissing the Pope in public to his priests via an ad clerum and behaving in an hostile manner to a priest who celebrates the EF.
Here in the Diocese of Richmond (VA)the excuse for not promoting the Summorum more is that we already have a parish devoted to the Extraordinary Mass. This is just obfuscation on the diocese’s part. The local paper did a fairly good story about the parish, but that’s been it.
Do you happen to have documentation of the response that there is already an EF parish? I ask because I’m in Roanoke, which has no ef anywhere, and it would be nice to include that tidbit in my request request.
Calleva, I signed the petition and then noticed the Most Holy Family Monastery site add on the next page. Are these guys sedevacantist..?. All traditionalist groups should work together, but sedevacantists we can do without.
Readers in England and Wales should be encouraged by recent and future events. I will mention a few.
1. Since the publication of Summorum pontificum, the number of Sunday Masses in the usus antiquior has increased from 25 to 36 (on average).
2. Forty seven priests attended the training seminar at Oxford last year and more are expected this year.
3. Masses in the usus antiquior have taken place or are planned in 11 out of 22 cathedrals.
4. Some bishops who previously would have been very much opposed are beginning to soften their attitudes.
5. The Latin Mass Society is probably the most active and effective society of its type in the world.
6. There is considerable interest amongst the younger priests and also amongst seminarians.
7. There is considerable interest amongst young people.
The movement is growing faster now than it has for thirty years and I would expect great things in the next year or two.
The one area where things are a little slow is the matter of stable groups. As yet, very few have emerged. It seems that everyone is waiting for someone else to make the first move. The procedure outlined in the motu proprio has as its starting point stable groups, and these must be formed before major progress can be made.
I would urge all readers to consider whether they know anyone else in their parish who might be interested. (A group can be as few as three – others will follow.) Then make an application to your parish priest, preferably in writing but perhaps verbally in the first instance. Once this move is made and the subsequent procedure followed, something has to be done either by priest or bishop.
If people do not take this first step, the bishops and clergy will continue to say that there is no interest. Do something about it today.
I suggest the following, to ensure Rome gets an accurate view BEFORE a paper trail is needed:
Get every single person who wants to attend TLM to write Ecclesia Dei directly in addition to writing their diocese.
Get every single person who does attend one to write Ecclesia Dei directly in thanks, in addition to writing to thank their own bishop.
These are things we can all do.
On Fr. Z.’s point that a request of a group must be in writing (he assumes).
No, Article 5 does not even require that there be a group lodging a request. Article 1 makes it clear (together with Canon 539) that the priest may proceed on his own with public parish Masses. Mr. Medlin quite rightly acknowledged this in his good expression, “where these are requested *or* [emphasis added] the parish priest prefers”. If no request is needed, it follows that no written request is needed: the parish priest can proceed on his own.
However, I suspect that Fr. Z. did not err here because the point being made both by Fr. Z. and Mr. Medlin is that a paper trail of requests will help us on that ‘day of wrath’ three years from now when the local bishops claim that there is no demand for our Mass.
Once again, a suggest a written ‘kitchen declaration’ in which three or more (the more the better but three is adequate in law) faithful express their intent to worship at any approved old Masses made available in the parish to which a petition is made. Put the declaration of intent in writing, and then put a petition for such Masses in writing, and have them both signed and dated.
Still, I think that the more important initiative is to have the P.C.E.D. clarify that any parish priest can schedule regular parish Masses without or without having received requests from parishioners. I have information to the effect that priests all over the world are now learning the old Mass and plan to celebrate it. There is a learning lag, which means that even more will come. Let us pray that a sudden surge in such celebrations will make irrelevant any report three years from now.
P.K.T.P.
I must say that I agree very strongly with everything Mr. Waddington has written. The Latin Mass Society of England and Wales has indeed kept excellent records over the years. I think that, thanks to the Cardinal Heenan Indult of 1971, it has had a great deal of time to organise and garner support.
Since the publication of S.P., an every-Sunday Mass has come to the Diocese of Shrewsbury, courtesy of the I.C.R., and others to the Archdiocese of Cardiff and the Dicoese of Brentwood. In the Diocese of Clifton, there is now an every-Sunday Mass at a single location (formerly, it was said every Sunday but only by rotation). There is also now a de facto every-Sunday Mass in the Diocese of Lancaster, and I believe that that is true of Leeds (at rotating locations?) as well. At any rate, one should go to the website of the Society for more details.
P.K.T.P.
Wayne (and others): Don’t worry about the adverts on the petition, they’re picked randomly against key words. I was offered a Latin American dating service and protestant prayer beads, among other things! There’s no such thing as a free petition, it seems.
Let’s all sign the petition and add supportive comments.
Perhaps I should say – those of us in England and Wales.
Mr. Waddington, you mentioned an Oxford seminar for training priests in the EF. Are you able to relate any details of this year’s seminar? Scheduling, contact information, sponsors, etc?
This is probably a silly question, but would a family (two parents and children) constitutes a stable group? The Bishops may not buy it, but there does not seem to be anything in the motu proprio which would rule this out.
Fr. Z,
Our group filed a petition and cover letter to our priest. When he said that he couldn’t say the Mass becuase he didn’t know how, we sent a complete copy the the Archbishop of Seattle.
The Archbishop beat around the bush and said that he was working on it. So 30
days later we sent a second packet. The Abp then said he was negociating with
FSSP. So after another 30 days and hearing nothing more we sent a complete
packet to Ecclesia Dei Commission. All I can say for right now is that Fr.
Flood is visiting the ABp in early April. We have a complete file of all correspondance
In reply to Romulus, the seminar at Merton College, Oxford will be from Mon 28th July to Fri 1st August. It is open to all priests and costs £150. Application form from the Latin Mass Society. See their website.
In reply to Louise, I would think that a family group would qualify. The important thing is that it is “stable” ie not here today and gone tomorrow.
What about Ireland? I don’t think there’s an IFUV affiliate in Ireland at all.
Tom wrote:
There were two groups but each of them had a row with the IFUV.
In the USA, there’s http://www.unavoce.org.
In Canada, there’s http://www.vancouvertms.com
What about Ireland???
Notwithstanding Mr Gaines’ answer above, it is very plain you didn’t read Mr Medlin’s letter which refers to the Irish affiliate.
This is not very difficult folks. Una Voce has a recommended step by step procedure that seems to develop a paper trail and is respectful of all parties concerned. We used it and it seems to be working.
I’ll post again if we are successful.
I should love to ask my priest to celebrate Mass in the extraordinary form for all the reasons that the Latin Mass Society gives and I am a member, but I don’t think I can to do so.
He is a young priest who has come to our small parish from India because this diocese is so short of priests. He already says three ordinary Sunday Masses, one in the parish church, one in the local convent and the third in a neighbouring town which has no priest of its own. In addition to this, there is probably no-one who could serve Mass.
Once a month we have a Low Mass in Latin said by another priest who comes to us from his own parish, having already said two ordinary Masses. A small number of people attend, most travel some distance and the server comes from a very distant parish. Until recently this was the only Latin Mass in the diocese. I am grateful to the priest and server at this one Mass. I cannot bring myself to ask them, or our own young priest, for more and I am really sorry about that because I know how important it is to have these requests made.
The bishop is likely to be pleased though … 2 people less for the statistics.
Coalition in Support of Ecclesia Dei keeps track of the Latin Masses offered in the Extraordinary Form in the United States. We post this information on our website, http://www.ecclesiaia dei.org, incorporate it in our printed Directory, and summarize it in the Flyer we mail with quarterly newsletters.
We sell a Latin-English booklet Missal to many of the parishes offering the Traditional Latin Mass, and are thereby often informed about the start of new Masses. We request information about new Masses, time changes in existing Masses, and gladly accept newspaper articles, church bulletins, etc.
Coalition Ecclesia Dei, PO Box 2071, Glenview, IL 60025
Mary: Were you to contact me more directly, perhaps I could be of some help in this regard.