Before and After: you decide

The Curt Jester offers a chance to reflect:

You decide

Marini I

Marini II

 

 

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About Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Fr. Z is the guy who runs this blog. o{]:¬)
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26 Responses to Before and After: you decide

  1. Stu says:

    *overcome with a sense of peace*

  2. albertusminor says:

    I had no idea that Marini I designed and chose the blue vestments used in Austria. I know first hand that THE POPE decided HE didn’t want to wear the chasuble set out for HIM at WYD in Cologne, so HE didn’t. Odd that HE didn’t make the same decision in Austria but humbly submitted HIS better judgment to the dictates of Marini I.

  3. Henry Kern says:

    With a rich 2000+ year history, it seems rather theologically bankrupt and awfully financially unjust to keep on producing new vestments. I am pleased to see the holy father’s new liturgical master of ceremonies using extraordinary vesture that connects the present with the past, truly eucharistic! Thus, I truly appreciate your own investigation into the origin of the vestment(s) the pope is wearing and your subsequent commentary offers. Spes non confundit!

  4. My own priest agrees. For Christ the King he wore a set of vestments which were donated to the parish by the brother of a priest who passed away years ago. Very nice white vestments with trim in real gold thread, certainly beyond our means today.
    I would assume that the Vatican would have enough vestments for every conceivable liturgical use in almost every size, many made by masters of the craft with skill rarely seen today. They certainly should be used, and not stuck in some storage basement.

  5. Mark says:

    Indeed, Father. Also see Shawn Tribe’s comments about today’s Mass in St Peter’s.

  6. Andy K. says:

    He’s gone from Episcopalian to Catholic!

  7. Andrew says:

    Why! The first one of course!

    … mare CAERULEUM; eximiis nunc delectationibus intuemur. (Cassiodori liber De Anima)

    De gustibus …

  8. kal says:

    If they are looking to get some extra use out of the blue set, they can send it to Saginaw. The “Season on Blue” starts here next week. Churches, advent wreaths, yes, even the priests will be decked out in blue for the next four weeks!

  9. Timothy James says:

    Though it seemed inevitable that Marini I would be shown the door with Benedict XVI in power, you have to wonder if the Austria Vestment was the straw that broke the camel’s back. Either way, good riddance to Marini I. Benvenuto to Marini II!

  10. Mark says:

    The first Marini seems to have found some very beautiful mountains.

  11. Maureen says:

    The Austria vestments were designed by an Austrian sister who’s famous for vestment design. If you want to blame Marini for not nixing said vestments, that’s another thing. But don’t blame him for designing them.

  12. PMcGrath says:

    Superb vestments on the Holy Father, of course. But why is Cardinal Delly wearing a cheese box on his head? Couldn’t they come up with something better?

  13. Diane says:

    Yeah, Fr. Z – that’s the tie-dyed chasuble and matching miter of which I was speaking in this post.

    Absolutely, ghastly!

    Marini II – beeeaautiful!

  14. Cacciaguida says:

    Big improvement on the Holy Father’s togs! Now, if we could only do something about that hotel bell-hop thing Cardinal Delly wears…. :)

  15. Matt Q says:

    In all seriousness, perhaps I am asking a very silly redundant question, but is not the Pope in control of his surroundings? Does he not have the backbone to say, “No, thank you!!” He is not enough of his own man to sit down with his own MC and say, “This is what I like, and this what you are going to do.”

    Must be a great working in the Vatican. You can do as you damn well and not even fear the Pope himself. Forty-minute breaks sound good, too.

  16. PMcGrath: Pay attention in the future!

  17. Now in all honesty, what was the liturgical color of the Mass in the first picture?
    Aren’t the colors of the Roman rite: green, white, violet, red, black, rose, (and gold)? I really can’t find any of those colors on the tie-dye vestment.
    Looks like the pope was painting (or in a paintball fight) and rushed into Mass.

    BTW, Matt Q does have an interesting point.

    The only good from this is a point my friend made. They can’t say we didn’t try things P. Marini’s way. We’ve seen the fruits of that and we can now move on.

  18. Samuel says:

    What was Marini I thinking? He’s really something else.

  19. Paul Mac says:

    Sorry, Cacciaguida, that’s a Chaldean piece of headwear on Cardinal Delly that the Pope (or someone) thoughtfully provided for him. Birettas belong to the Latin rite and he belongs to the Chaldean rite. That’s also why he was not assigned a titual church in Rome.

  20. Martin says:

    I really love the way, the pontifical liturgy has changed in recent weeks. And not only concerning the choice of vestments. More so with the arrangement of the sanctuary. In some photos from “fotografia felici” you can clearly see the corpus of the crucifix turned towards the celebrant (-ing pope). I’m looking forward to seeing the readings proclaimed by proper lectors from one of the roman seminaries.

    Maureen,
    The Vestments made by the mentioned sister were those green ones the pope wore at the vienna cathedral. And tose were splendid to the point, that the Dalmatics of the assistings deacons were more precious than the chasubles of the concelebrants.

  21. Patrick T. says:

    Does anyone know why Cardinal Delly was not listed with a “diaconal” appointment? Is it because he is a patriarch?

    Thanks!

  22. Conor says:

    People please refer to Patriarch Emmanuel III by his proper title ie. Patriarch not cardinal and by his first name. He is the head of a particular church and thus of higher ecclessiastical rank than any Latin prelate save the Pope of Rome. In the East all prelates are monks and to refer to them by their surnames is considered the height of rudeness.

  23. Animadversor says:

    Dear Conor,

    Surely our brothers and sisters of the Eastern Churches are not so short-fused, nay, uncharitable, that they would take such undue offense at an error arising from innocent ignorance that they would consider such an error to be the height of rudeness?

  24. Matt Q says:

    Conor wrote,

    “People please refer to Patriarch Emmanuel III by his proper title ie. Patriarch not cardinal and by his first name. He is the head of a particular church and thus of higher ecclessiastical rank than any Latin prelate save the Pope of Rome. In the East all prelates are monks and to refer to them by their surnames is considered the height of rudeness.”

    Blah blah blah. It’s no different than others who write, “Pope Ratiziner.” That’s offensive in general.

    Regarding the Chaldeans, they live there, we live here. We have our opinions, and if one doesn’t like them, oh well.

  25. Damien says:

    Thank you Connor for educating us in the protocol of the Eastern Church.

  26. Louis E. says:

    I think it unbecoming of the Eastern Churches to deny the relevance of a Patriarch’s Cardinalate…if it is not an elevation for Their Beatitudes to become Eminences why would it happen?
    Cardinal-Patriarchs are ranked in the order of Cardinal-Bishops after the bishops of the Suburbicarian Sees,and before all Cardinal-Priests or Cardinal-Deacons.
    Of course the Ukrainian Greek Catholics insist on calling their Major Archbishop “Patriarch” and “Beatitude” when Rome has not accorded this title or style.