Welcome to another installment of What Does the Prayer Really Sound Like?
Today we will hear the prayers for the 25th Sunday after Pentecost in the 1962 Missale Romanum. The texts for this Mass are from the 6th Sunday left after Epiphany. This is explained at length in a recent article in The Wanderer. I speak all the prayers and readings and also sing the Collect and Post Communion prayers in the Festal Tone.
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http://www.wdtprs.com/prayercazt/071112_25_post_pent.mp3
If priests who are learning to say the older form of Holy Mass can get these prayers in their ears, they will be able to pray them with more confidence. So, priests are my very first concern.
However, these audio projects can be of great help to lay people who attend Holy Mass in the Traditional, or extraordinary form: by listening to them ahead of time, and becoming familiar with the sound of the before attending Mass, they will be more receptive to the content of the prayers and be aided in their full, conscious and active participation.
My pronunciation of Latin is going to betray something of my nationality, of course. Men who have as their mother tongue something other than English will sound a little different. However, we are told that the standard for the pronunciation of Latin in church is the way it is spoken in Rome. Since I have spent a lot of time in Rome, you can be pretty sure my accent will not be too far off the mark.
I deliver them more slowly than I would ordinarily during Mass. But hopefully the pace will help you hear the words a little more clearly.
If this was useful to you, let your priest friends know this resource is available. And kindly make a little donation using the donation button on the left side bar of the blog or or by clicking here. This is a labor of love, but those donations really help. And don’t forget to check out the PODCAzTs!
Pray for me, listen carefully, and practice practice practice.
Nota bene: With the beginning of a new liturgical year at the 1st Sunday of Advent, I will be evaluating whether or not I want to continue to do these audio projects based on the download statistics. Good stats – PRAYERCAzTs – Bad stats – …. cf. Hamlet V.ii.363
I am not able to tell how many might be using this project from iTunes, but my podpress plugin is showin these results for downloads:
01 – 937
02 – 584
03 – 411
04 – 341
05 – 363
06 – 248
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Fr. Z,
In the past, Latin was part of a priest’s seminary training.
Nowadays, Latin is not only optional, but, for the most part, absent as part of the curriculumn for many seminaries.
That said, does it make any sense for a new priest who does not know Latin at all to celebrate the TLM?
I’ve seen one particular priest who earnestly had attempted to celebrate the TLM.
However, he struggled significantly throughout the Mass pronouncing the Latin and, more importantly, could not actually pray in the Latin (as made evident by his laborious efforts to merely say the Latin prayer throughout the various parts of the Mass).
The latter is the more pressing issue.
Because of these priests not having learned Latin as part of their training, would it be acceptable for them to celebrate the Mass without this requisite knowledge?
It would seem that they would not be ‘praying’ the Mass in Latin at all but merely attempting to recite a bunch of words.
I know this is not the priest’s fault and that he should be lauded for his efforts; however, there is still the issue that the Latin Mass is, most likely, not being prayed by the celebrant since the celebrant lacks a knowledge of Latin in the first place and, therefore, only attempting to recite a bunch of words he has no actual knowledge of.
This is the only way we will learn. When I was in college seminary I walked out of class because the priest who taught us became insulting. We do necessarily need to understand to pray. Prayer comes from the heart. Many times, priest say the Novus Ordo in their native language and are not praying. Priest of the last 20 or so years were done a great disservice by the Church, esp, in the US. We should have been given Latin every year, even if it were only to give background and not a grade.
Le Renard: That priest may have not yet been ready, but I can attest from my own experience that formal training in Latin is not necessary to understand and pray in Latin. I know several Latin prayers by heart and, having learned them with a bilingual missal, I know what they mean as well. I know the meaning of almost every single word, and I know what every sentence means. This is entirely sufficient for me to say these prayers in Latin, to know what I am saying, and thus to pray in Latin.
I think any priest could use this same approach but it would require two things: an effort to memorize (for the most part) the words and meaning of the ordinary of the mass. Sufficient time spent before each mass to study the words and meaning of the propers.
Fr. JF,
Priest of the last 20 or so years were done a great disservice by the Church, esp, in the US. We should have been given Latin every year, even if it were only to give background and not a grade.
How true!
God bless you in your journey and ever give you strength and success in your trials!
W,
I hear what you’re saying, but I just fear that, at this early a stage, when the neophyte priest is still trying to learn how to pronounce the Latin; unlike a priest of old who have undergone the necessary training in Latin, this new generation priest is yet attempting to learn both how to pronounce the Latin as well as what he is actually saying in Latin.
Thus, this becomes a more arduous task for the priest of today’s generation.
The greatest issue here then is if whether or not the priest himself is actually celebrating the Mass.
He may be simply reading off the cards, not actually knowing what it is he is saying in Latin, concentrating more so on how to pronounce the Latin prayers than anything else since he is without the requisite background in Latin.
I feel for the priests of today (especially those doing their best to celebrate the extraordinary rite) since they were short-changed in their training by losing this part of their Catholic Heritage.
ALL: I want to remind everyone that while it is far better for a priest to know well and profoundly what the Latin texts say, he need not be an expert in Latin to celebrate Mass validly and reverently. What we are celebrating is at its very core a mystery. Even the English texts in the very best translations have depths we can barely fathom.
So, by all means let us promote knowledge of Latin. But don’t think that if a priest does not have expertise, he is somehow not “qualified” (idoneus) to celebrate Mass.