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  • 5 July 2008

    CNS recap of the SSPX/Vatican dialogue

    CATEGORY: SESSIUNCULUM — Fr. John Zuhlsdorf @ 7:22 am

    This is in from CNS.  My emphases and comments.

    Traditionalists say they’ve met Vatican’s deadline for reconciliation

    By Cindy Wooden
    Catholic News Service

    VATICAN CITY (CNS)—The traditionalist Society of St. Pius X said it met the Vatican’s deadline to respond to a memo outlining preliminary conditions for full reconciliation with the rest of the Catholic Church.

    However, a statement released by the Swiss-based society July 1 implied that the traditionalist group did not accept all the conditions set out in the letter, and it appealed to Pope Benedict XVI to lift the 1988 decree of excommunication against the society’s bishops who were ordained without papal permission.  [However, if they responded by the end of June, and they did, then they met the deadline which was one of the conditions.]

    The Vatican press office said July 3 that it did not plan to comment on the statement[Not even to say something positive.]

    In the July 1 statement, the Society of St. Pius said, "The very general—not to say vague—character of the demands singularly contrasts with the urgency of the ultimatum," adding that they appeared to be geared simply to promoting dialogue rather than resolving differences.

    The memorandum was given June 4 to the head of the society, Bishop Bernard Fellay, by Cardinal Dario Castrillon Hoyos, the Vatican official in charge of dialogue with the traditionalists.

    In addition to asking for a response by the end of June, the memo set four other conditions for a move toward full reconciliation:

    —To respond with the same generosity shown by the pope.

    —To avoid public comments showing a lack of respect toward the pope or which could "be negative for ecclesial charity."

    —To avoid "the pretext of a magisterium superior to the Holy Father" and to not present the society in opposition to the church.

    —To demonstrate the will to act honestly in full ecclesial communion and with respect for the pope’s authority.

    The society’s July 1 statement said Bishop Fellay responded to the ultimatum with a June 26 letter to Pope Benedict and that "Cardinal Castrillon Hoyos acknowledged receipt of the letter the next day."  [And, as we reported here and here, Card. Castrillon was apparently pleased with the letter.]

    In a June 28 interview with an Italian-language radio station in Switzerland, Bishop Fellay said, "It is false to say (my response was a) total rejection" of the Vatican’s conditions.

    "Rather, I see in this ultimatum something very vague, confused. But I have responded and it has to be seen how Rome will react," he said.

    Bishop Fellay said, "It is possible that now there will be a little more coldness" in the discussions with the Vatican, but the society wants to continue its dialogue with the rest of the church.  [I pondered what that might mean since I first read it.  Does it mean that the SSPX leadership will now begin to speak with less "warmth"?  That is, with less harsh rhetoric?  Some people take passion and criticism to be sincerity.  Others see dispassionate and careful dialogue as being "cold".  Hard to say what he meant.]

    "We do not want to break with the church. Our greatest desire is to be fully accepted," he said. "This is also for the good of the church, because you can see the church has serious problems and we know that we have the solution. [A bit brash.  The problems the Church has in the modern world, in all their complexity and the world’s diversity, are not going to be met by the solutions of one group.] We are not innovators; we simply follow what the church has always done and which worked in the past."  [What worked in the past was sticking closely to Peter… but I digress.]

    Asked whether he risked permanently closing the possibility of reconciliation by not accepting all the Vatican’s conditions, Bishop Fellay said: "For me, this ultimatum makes no sense. We have a relationship with Rome that is unfolding with a certain rhythm, which, it is true, is slow. But it also is true that the cardinal (Castrillon) and the Holy Father would like to see an accelerated rhythm."  [Nobody is getting younger, and this combination of people involved are all as positive and open as there have ever been.]

    Last year, Pope Benedict widened the possibility for use of the Tridentine rite, ["Tridentine"] the form of Mass used before the Second Vatican Council. That was a long-standing request of the society. [That is not the only reason Benedict XVI did this, of course.  It also has to do with both his desire for true reform in the Church.]

    But Bishop Fellay has continued to criticize [This is unclear: continued to criticize since when?  Since Summorum Pontificum or since the Conditions, which ask for a more positive tone?  Also, there is nothing in the conditions that required the SSPX leadership not to criticize elements of Vatican II (which Papa Ratzinger has done himself, extensively and sharply, in the past.] the Vatican on other matters, and has expressed his society’s continued opposition to several teachings of Vatican II, especially in the areas of ecumenism and religious freedom. 

    In April Bishop Fellay said the time was not right for reconciliation with the Vatican, because church leaders have not taken steps to reverse the "crisis" introduced by Vatican II[I don’t accept that.  I think steps have indeed been taken.  But you don’t get to decide what those steps ought to be unless you are the Pope.]

    One source said the new Vatican offer signaled that the Vatican was not willing to continue dialogue with the traditionalist society indefinitely[This is perhaps true.  I suggested that myself at the beginning.  I also think that it is more likely that this is a matter of taking advantage of the intersection of circumstances.  First, it was twenty years precisely since the illicit consecrations by Lefebvre. Second, the people in leadership positions on both sides are the most positive toward unity we have seen in the interval.  Third, no one is getting younger: Castrillon will be eighty soon and His Holiness is 81 while Fellay is now also moving on in age and perhaps won’t be elected Superior again, if and when his term expires.  Then what?]

    The society broke with the Vatican in 1988 when its founder, the late French Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, ordained four bishops against papal instructions; Bishop Fellay was one of those ordained.

    At that time, the Vatican said those involved in the ordinations were excommunicated.

    Jesuit Father Federico Lombardi, Vatican spokesman, explained to French television July 2 that, while the four bishops were excommunicated, the priests of the society are validly ordained [but suspended] and the laity who attend their Masses are considered Catholics.

    • • • • • •

    35 Comments

    1. >”...and the laity who attend their Masses are considered Catholics.”<

      Isn’t this really the bottom line for us right now, while the case is pending?

      Comment by BobP — 5 July 2008 @ 7:33 am
    2. Blah! Blah! Blah! Blah! Tell us something new. Tired of reading the same thing over and over again.

      Comment by petrus69 — 5 July 2008 @ 7:43 am
    3. BobP,

      Not wanting to stir up too much trouble, but I’m not sure what significance that final quote could have. It is my understanding that the Church considers anyone Catholic who was validly baptized Catholic, whether they go to mass at a NO/OF church, a FSSP church, and SSPX chapel, or don’t go to mass at all (they may be lapsi, but they are still Catholic).

      The “bottom line”, I guess, will depend on what question is being asked. But it seems to me that the issue is not whether those “who attend their masses” are Catholic, but rather whether they should attend their masses anyway—under what conditions? when? is there any obligation to avoid “their masses” if other Catholic churches are nearby? etc.

      I agree with petrus69, not much new to see here.

      Comment by vox borealis — 5 July 2008 @ 8:01 am
    4. More of the same, again: no agreement will occur because:

      1) the respective churches/religions over time are diverging. One does not want a reforming/evolving church and the other has invested heavily in pluralism/hybridisation/innovation with a few colourful traditional touches to please the tourists.

      2) the respective parties speak in different languages. He who controls the language, controls the argument. Hence, the trouble in reporting and interpreting statements written to be deliberately opaque.

      Comment by Oliver — 5 July 2008 @ 8:03 am
    5. Here’s a question:

      Suppose this process drags out, the Holy Father goes to his reward, as does the good Cardinal, and Fellay faces a Pope that is not interested in dialog with the SSPX? Now fast forward a decade later. Suppose Fellay (and the other SSPX bishops) are getting close to their last days, and they decide to consecrate more bishops. You now have a generation of clergy (both at the Vatican and in the SSPX leadership) who are completely removed from the original “Lefebrve affair”, and may have a certain degree of complacency.

      What other problems would arise if this conflict with the leadership of the Church and that of the SSPX were to go into a second generation?

      I think Fr.Z. is right. No one is getting younger, and that’s why the Vatican is urgent.

      Comment by RichR — 5 July 2008 @ 8:10 am
    6. Once again: Bishop Fellay’s response to the Vatican proposal is utterly devastating for the Church as a whole and for the SSPX. While it could be appreciated earlier this week for persons to be hopeful that as the week progressed the situation might become clearer and improve towards reconciliation it is clear as the days pass that nothing is happening. Oh, yes, it is a nicety to say things like, ‘Castrillon was pleased’ and “It is false to say (my response was a) total rejection” of the Vatican’s conditions.” [Fellay].. but this is all verbosity amounting to nothing. The fact is Fellay gave Pope Benedict XVI a SLAP IN THE FACE. Oh yes, one can develop a system of intrigue that not all has been given to the public from both the Vatican and SSPX side and secretely the ‘powers that be’ are working diligently towards a solution. If that were the case SSPX would have eased the hearts of the faithful all over the world who are suffering because of the SSPX episcopal excommunications and improper canonical standing of the SSPX in the Church. Again, GRAND DELUSION: THE SSPX SAID NO DEAL! And it came during the week that the Transalpine Redemptorists became in Canonical Good Standing. So what gives? The SSPX is playing a political a game and here is how it goes: ” we warned the Transalpine Redemptorists not to deal with Rome: now watch them collapse into “modernism” and defect from “the true faith and tradition of the Catholic Church.” The Transalpines will become a kind of focal point if not whipping post for the SSPX’ers at every turn the TR’s take. THEN SSPX will have been justified in not ‘cutting a deal’ with Rome. SSPX does not want to be part of the Church, it is in the VERY WORDS of Fellay on numerous occasions like: we don’t want to go in, we are ‘here’, Rome is ‘there’ etc, etc… we will stay where we are UNTIL ROME COMES HOME [to Tradition] That’s really what it is all about and it will not change until ROME cries ‘uncle’ to the SSPX. It’s the old ‘mid European’ salami tactic of