Thrones
The throne used by His Holines for the consistory has been used before!
24 November 2007
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What Does The Prayer Really Say?
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The physical representation of hermenutic of continuity… Gotta love it!
Comment by Pistor — 24 November 2007 @ 10:27 amHabemus Papam! Deo gratias, Tom
Comment by TJM — 24 November 2007 @ 10:32 amWhere are you finding these beautiful pictures???
Comment by James — 24 November 2007 @ 10:35 amYes, as I commented below (http://wdtprs.com/blog/2007/11/vestments-for-a-consistory/#comment-39224), the Holy Father already used this throne for his last Christmas address to the Curia, but as far as I know, this is the first time this throne was used for a liturgy inside St. Peter’s for quite a long time. Now, if only it could be moved back to the apse, in front of the Cathedra, where it belongs.
Comment by Berolinensis — 24 November 2007 @ 10:38 amSee: http://www.catholicpressphoto.com/servizi/2006-12-22-auguri-natale/images/prevs/2006-12-22%20BXVI%20end-of-year%20speech%2002.jpg
Thanks to Father Z for these pictures of the papal throne by Pope Benedict.
I totally agree with Beroliniensis :
If only it could be moved back to the apse, in front of the Cathedra, where it belongs.
Yes.
Comment by Dr. Peter H. Wright — 24 November 2007 @ 11:07 amI hope Mons. Guido Marini is reading this.
Berolinensis, do you know when this Throne was removed from the Cathedra?
Comment by Habemus Papam — 24 November 2007 @ 11:23 am(I think John Paul I was photographed seated in this Throne and he was the last to use the Sedia Gestatoria).
Has anyone ever seen Fr. Z. and Msgr. Marini in the same room at the same time?
Comment by dcs — 24 November 2007 @ 11:25 amPistor you hit the nail on the head! There are noticeable and subtle changes and it is inspiring! More reverence where reverence is due and more pomp when pomp is due!
Comment by Hung Doan — 24 November 2007 @ 12:12 pmI notice from the various photos accross the web that there is no Cross on the altar, simply the six candles. Is this significant?
Comment by Bob — 24 November 2007 @ 1:46 pmMaybe no cross on the altar because there was no Mass?
Comment by kal — 24 November 2007 @ 2:48 pmThis throne was a moveable throne even in the good old days. It was not
fixed at the apex of the Basilica, where Bernini’s Cathedra Petri stands.
A portable baldacchino with steps
used to be placed in front of the Cathedra Petri
on the days when a Papal Mass was to be celebrated in the
Altar of the Confession, and then this throne or some other moveable throne
was placed within that structure, under the baldacchino.
For John XXIII’s Coronation, for instance, another throne was placed in
the apex of the basilica, under a baldacchino and with steps leading up
to it, and with a cloth behind it, and the Throne used today by Pope Benedict
was the one placed in the balcony of the Basilica, where the actual
Coronation took place.
Pope Pius XII was also crowned while seated in the Throne used today, and
Comment by prof. basto — 24 November 2007 @ 3:25 pmthat also took place in the balcony of the Basilica.
What a great image of Leo XIII; a good find.
Comment by techno_aesthete — 24 November 2007 @ 4:42 pmThat is actually a photo of Saint Pius X.
Comment by Michael — 24 November 2007 @ 4:53 pmI think the throne was made for Leo XIII.
Comment by Fr. John Zuhlsdorf — 24 November 2007 @ 5:03 pmCorrection to my previous post: John Paul I was photographed in a Throne used by Paul VI and NOT the Throne discussed in this thread.
Comment by Habemus Papam — 24 November 2007 @ 5:16 pmProf. Basto – are you sure John XXIII was crowned inside St. Peter’s and not on the balcony? There is a Youtube video here and it looks like the coronation was outside.
Comment by Ottaviani — 24 November 2007 @ 5:30 pmOttaviani,
I have said in my post that the Coronation took place at the balcony.
Please note my words:
“...and the Throne used today by Pope Benedict
Comment by prof. basto — 24 November 2007 @ 5:45 pmwas the one placed in the balcony of the Basilica, where the actual
Coronation took place.
Fr. Z.,
Despite Pope Bendict’s eschewal of it in his papal insignia, I can’t help thinking that the logical corollary of the use of this throne must eventually be the reintroduction of the tiara. After Paul VI laid his tiara aside at the end of Vatican II, there could be no better signal than the revival of the tiara that continuity, and not rupture, is the key to understanding and implementing the Council.
Comment by Francis Brennan — 24 November 2007 @ 8:35 pmFrancis Brennan,
If the Pope has hopes of restoring communion with Orthodoxy I can think of no faster way to wreck such hopes then by bringing back the tiara. I approve of most of what this Pope has done and appears to be doing. But the tiara is a symbol of the ultramontane attitudes of another era which are deeply offensive to the Orthodox.
ICXC NIKA
Comment by Ad Orientem — 24 November 2007 @ 8:50 pmJohn
(jaw drops) Thank you, Father!
——————————————————————————-
“Has anyone ever seen Fr. Z. and Msgr. Marini in the same room at the same time?”
HAHA!
Comment by Maria — 24 November 2007 @ 9:57 pmA simple, practical question here: Where would this throne have been stored? And who would have known its significance, and have been able to find it for such use?
Same question applies to the miter and the cope.
Comment by PMcGrath — 24 November 2007 @ 10:04 pmPMcGrath,
I think it was in the Lateran Museum.
Comment by SMJ — 25 November 2007 @ 6:57 amPMcGrath,
Comment by Timothy James — 25 November 2007 @ 5:39 pmMaybe it was in the same place all the beautiful vestments were hiding under the reign of Marini I.