Mpls – St. Joan of Arc Church – I don’t even know how to label this tragic abuse

Remember the Potato Head Puppet Mass perpetrated by Call To Action in California?  Go here, but not on full stomach.  And to think a bishop was involved.

BUT WAIT!   THERE’s MORE!

I had mentioned in that entry about the Call To Action stupidity, that I had seen years ago a mystery play in the Cathedral of St. Paul by the "Heart of the Beast" giant puppet troop.

Lupus in fabula, here they are again!

At the infamous St. Joan of Arc parish in my home town Minneapolis, one of the weirdest, wackiest, liturgically and doctrinally worst parishes probably on our Mother Gaia, there was a Palm Sunday "liturgy", I am guessing mostly oriented to children.

Behold, the Palm Sunday 2008 Mass at St. Joan of Arc Catholic Church in Minneapolis.

Here is the video which I captured, but it got a little squished:

[flv]08_03_16_JoanArcPalmSun08.flv[/flv]

There may be a problem with the YouTube version.

[youtube:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hz_hzHW_bRg]

If you want to get at what they perpetrators think children should absorb from this "liturgy", and you can check your gag reflex for a while, go to about minute 10:20 in the video for a sort of litany of woes.

Remember, how we pray and what we believe have a reciprocal relationship.  So, what will all this do to a child’s perception of the Church and himself as a Catholic, over time?

I know that the former Archbishop, H.E. Most Rev. Harry Flynn tooks steps to clean this place up.  I suspect that the present Archbishop, H.e. Most Rev. John Nienstedt will have a lot to say to this community of faith.  I sure would.

Here are some stills which you can find at Orate Fratres.

“Around the alter, the Last Supper is prepared as the Jesus mimics Father Jim Cassidy as he performs the Consecration and gathers us for the Our Father and exchanging the sign of peace. Singing “Lamb of God” we share in Communion…”

 

 

I really hope these people just don’t know any better.

Did you need another reason why Summorum Pontificum is so important?

FacebookEmailPinterestGoogle GmailShare/Bookmark

About Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Fr. Z is the guy who runs this blog. o{]:¬)
This entry was posted in SESSIUNCULA. Bookmark the permalink.

90 Responses to Mpls – St. Joan of Arc Church – I don’t even know how to label this tragic abuse

  1. When I clicked the video it said it was no longer available. They removed it I guess.

  2. SFCM Organist says:

    There’s quite the treasure trove of material to send on to the Congregation for Divine Worship and Discipline of the Sacraments floating around on Youtube. The unbelievably tragic thing about Saint Joan’s is that they’ve posted all of their videos themselves! The Maid of France is weeping in heaven on their behalf.

  3. Thanks for the link; now I am beginning to wonder why I looked at that morbid whatever you want to call it. That just ain’t right! I thank God everyday that we are blest with a pastor, who is holy and obedient.

  4. Thomas says:

    On their website, I found it interesting that under Sunday Mass for the liturgy/music section, they said that they have a range of music from liturgical to contemporary. At least, then, they know that there’s a difference.

  5. Fr. Dan says:

    I am just dumb founded. Our Dear Lord had to sit through the mess. they could of at leat had the kindness to remove him and repose him eleswhere

  6. Padre Steve says:

    This would actually be scary for kids! How bizarre can they get? Let’s pray the new breed of bishops are able to right the ship! God bless! Padre Steve

  7. AnnaTrad says:

    “Forgive them Father for they know not what they do.” This is all I can hold on to after see such absolute insanity. It goes way beyond blasphemy into a whole new dimension. I am in an absolute state of shock.

  8. Joe says:

    It’s no worse than the first Mass.

  9. Renee says:

    Oh my, that was horrid. Its even worse than the Call to Action mass. At least that was directed towards adults (who should know better). Its shameful to subject this creepiness on small children. Just shameful.

  10. cascadura says:

    Pope Pius XII declared “I am worried by the Blessed Virgin’s Messages to Lucy at Fatima. This persistence of Mary about the dangers which menace the Church is a divine warning against the Suicide that would be represented by the alteration of the faith, in her liturgy”

    I believe this video says it all and proves Pius XII prophetic. It also reinforces the fact that our struggle to reinstate the traditional Mass these last 40 years was well worth the sufferings we had to undergo.

  11. John Enright says:

    The only things missing are: (1) a proper Deacon – may I suggest the Rev. Mr. Rodgers?; (2) Bert and Ernie Altar Servers; (3) the Romper Room All-Star Choir; and (4) Beanie and Cecil ushers. Seriously, this monstrous sacrilege bears more of a resemblance to a pagan ritual than to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

  12. Ttony says:

    They have a list of this year’s ceremonies with photos.

    http://www.stjoan.com/erfr.htm

    Do you think it’s all a big joke on us?

  13. James says:

    Mercy, why don’t our bishops stop these shenanigans? What do I tell my Eastern Orthodox friends who accuse the Catholic Church of not caring about the liturgy or the Eucharist when such abuses do not cause swift rebuke and corrective action? What do I tell my Protestant friends who tell me what use are bishops if they do not shepherd?

    The lack of pastoral leadership on the part of our episcopacy is destroying the Catholic Church’s witness. Priests who continue to sanction/perpetrate this stuff MUST be disciplined, or the chaos will continue to wreak havoc on our Church.

    Lord have mercy . . . St. Joan of Arc is a PARISH, and it is notorious for the craziness that goes on there. . . can’t anything be done to clean up this great scandal of a parish? Fr. Z, why does this parish continue as it does with impunity?

  14. WDPRSer says:

    Fr Z: “…one of the weirdest, wackiest, liturgically and doctrinally worst parishes …”

    Wow. You were not kidding. On their website, in the community building section, they have a gay and lesiban group section.

  15. Jordanes says:

    Bored, in the one case, we have criticism of something being done that is authoritatively allowed and welcomed by the Pope, by Church Council, and by canon law – and we even have criticism of canon law. In the other, we have criticism of a mockery of the Church’s liturgy that was never envisioned by the Church, is corrosive to Catholic liturgy and culture, and that turns liturgical law and custom on their heads.

  16. AnAnonymousSeminarian says:

    cascadura,

    Just out of curiosity, where did that quote from Pius XII come from? I’d not before heard anything so direct regarding the matter.

    Thanks in advance.

  17. Joe: It’s no worse than the first Mass.

    I think it is. This is aimed at children.

  18. WDTPRSer: they have a gay and lesiban group section

    You know… I don’t in principle have an objection to having a parish based group for homosexuals. I would call it something else, such as “Courage” and keep the program oriented along those lines.

    The problem arises when such an initiative attempts to explain away Church teaching, or resist the Church’s teaching about this affliction.

    But in this video, you hear them lament as an evil a “heterosexist” view. You can hear a whole litany of bad things from about 10:20 on in the video.

  19. Jayna says:

    Regardless of whether or not they know better than to use puppets at mass, how do these people not see how creepy those things are? Liturgical abuses aside, this is the stuff of nightmares. I’m not kidding, I’m sleeping with the lights on tonight.

  20. MacBeth says:

    I think I saw the elk I hit in Teton NP last summer pass by in the procession.

    My daughter thought it was the Mass of Dr. Moreau. “We are not men; we are not animals; we are nothing!”

  21. Augustine says:

    “Lord of the Dance” was a treasured memory from my childhood in a good Anglican primary school and Sunday school. That has now been ruined for me. Part of the liturgist in me just died…

  22. It’s hauntingly like the pagan procession in the classic 1970s horror film “The Wicker Man”.

  23. Joe says:

    Fr. Z:

    “I think it is. This is aimed at children.”

    Good point – well taken.

    Joe

  24. Steve says:

    Isn’t using clay vessels a grave liturgical abuse by the priest (besides all the other obvious insanity?)

  25. Steve: Do you really have to ask?

  26. Brian C. says:

    Wow… you’re not kidding:

    (from the St. Joan of Arc website:)

    “Pride Week Prayer Service: Please join us on Wednesday, June 25 at 7 pm in the church for a prayer service to celebrate and give thanks for the gifts of our Gay/Lesbian/Bisexual/Transgendered community. Celebrate with us in prayer and song – we’ll be joined by guest musician and SJA favorite Ann Reed. Hospitality will follow.

    When they say, “Celebrate with us in prayer […]”, I can’t help but think: “Pray to WHOM?”

    In Christ,
    Brian

  27. James W says:

    I don’t think that I have ever seen anything this horrific in the guise of Catholic liturgy. The faculties of the pastor should be removed at once. It is almost hard to believe that “adults” particularly in a church setting would seek to fill the minds of young children with this utter nonsense.

  28. John says:

    Did the Call to action folks in California get their puppet ideas from St. Joan’s or vice versa?

    Some the puppets look like someting from Easter Island or some pagan tribe from Africa or Polynesia.

    If Archbishop Neinstadt needs to close some parishes, I know where he could start.

    On the other hand it may be prudent to keep all of “those people” in St. Joan’s rather than risk spread of their infections to the rest of the Twin Cities.

  29. John: No, have to part company here. I don’t think it is right to use that sort of labeling.

  30. Paul says:

    Are these masses even valid? Now, I know that there are three things required for the valid celebration of the sacraments (presupposing a validly ordained priest): matter, form, and intention. Concerning intention, can these people really be said to be ‘doing what the Church does’? (Council of Trent) And if it isn’t referring to abuses such as this, then could somebody please explain what does intention in the context of the sacraments mean?

    I hope for their sakes that they are invalid.

  31. Sue Sims says:

    Was this actually a Mass? It very much resembles the sort of thing my evangelical Anglican church used to do (may still do, for all I know – I’ve been Catholic for ten years now) on Good Friday: not a standard service, but a family event where one spent a couple of hours in groups making banners or props or whatever, and then an hour where this sort of drama/music/prayer service happened. My children used to enjoy it thoroughly.

    I’m not defending what St Joan’s is doing here – only there didn’t seem to be even the basic structure of the Mass, and the resemblance between this and what we used to do at St John’s is striking. We’d then have an ‘grown-up’ service on Good Friday afternoon.

  32. malta says:

    Fr. Z, thanks for engaging my gag reflexes!

    A couple years back I went to Mass in Sedona:

    http://www.sjvsedona.org/Pastornote.htm

    I couldn’t countenance taking my children to mass there again, so I stopped for mass in Flagstaff at St. Pius X (so ironically named) “hall” (their description) on my way to Disneyland last year:

    http://www.diocesephoenix.org/parish/sfda/pages/churches-masses.htm

    The pastor immediately began mass extolling the virtues of Vatican II, a seemingly strange way to begin mass, until I realized that this was community, horizontal worship par excellence!

    on my way back through, I felt compelled to stop at a real Saint Pius X Chapel in Phoenix: It was one of the most astonishingly beautiful masses I have ever been to. Aesthetics aside, the primary reason for attending this service was to not repeat the horrible experiences of the other two locales. Aesthetics, though, should be a concern in our worship. On our pilgrim journey, we experience by sight, sound, touch and feel. Christ spat into the dirt, made mud, and cured blindness with physical contact; He let Peter sink in the water until Peter grabbed his hand. We communicate and sanctify with the physical. Experiencing, say, a Palestrina Mass in Salisbury Cathedral orients one better towards God, the Truth of the Eucharist, and our eternity in a more efficacious way then a horizontal puppet clap-fest.

  33. Jim Dorchak says:

    Come on there is nothing wrong with this Mass. This is exactly like the Masses that I attended all through CCD and the Catholic School system in the 1970s. There was nothing wrong with it then, so there can not be any problem with it now. Besides the Mass is kind of fun! Why shouldn’t Mass be entertaining?

    If this is a bad Mass then how come our youth get this same Catholic education today?

    If it was really that bad I would have to think that the bishops would say something about what they see is wrong. I do not hear any Bishops on this blog saying anything. The Bishop of this diocese obviously thinks that it is ok, or he would have already made an announcement.

    I do not hear any of the Bishops of the Catholic Church condeming this Mass!

    This Priest should be rewarded for his bravery in showing how fun Mass should be.

    This Mass is perfectly OK.

    I think that you are all being uncharitable.

    Jim Dorchak

  34. Lacrimarum Valle says:

    That donkey looks embarrassed.

  35. Lacrimarum: That donkey is an ass.

  36. Lacrimarum Valle says:

    Father : that donkey isn’t the only ass.

  37. Mark says:

    Forgive me, but the priest should be removed and sent to the Carthusian Monastery in France for 7 years and the Parish should be handed over to the FSSP.

    This is outrageous! How do bishops allow these things to happen in the first place? I’m not one to cry foul very often – nonetheless… FOUL!

  38. This video is much worse since it involves so many children.

  39. dominic1962 says:

    Jim, you’re joking right? This kind of heresy started up after Vatican II, and just because bishops and priests either didn’t have the guts or the orthodoxy to oppose it, does not mean that its right.

  40. Calleva says:

    This parish is known even outside the USA for its unconventionality. I took a look at their website and found praise for a bizarre heterodox situation in Holland http://www.stjoan.com/thumb4fr.htm

    \” [the congregation consisted of mostly older people]. There were no vestments, and a lay homilist read an essay by Martin Buber. Present were two Dominican priests who handed the bread and wine to the prayer presider who then served communion. “Everyone is welcome at this table,” appeared to be the church’s motto.

    “It is we, the community, who are consecrated,” explained one of the priests….

    \”When a layman who was a retired Lutheran minister asked if he could join the community, we (the priests) said we would have to ask the community. The man was admitted to the church and is sometimes the presider at the Eucharistic celebration.\”

    When the bishop asked them to desist they openly defied him – this is all something that the people at SJA are comfortable with. One ray of light, in the above described \’liturgy\’, the people present were mostly older – surprise, surprise.

    The procession of animals in the actual liturgy shown on video would have been better in a seasonal pantomime and barely counts as \’worship\’. When the stag came in I gasped; for a moment I thought it was a neolithic pagan symbol – a man with antlers on his head. Similarly with the bull – I thought of Mithras. I guess I\’ve studied ancient history too much, but it spooked me out. And, pray, what is that spectral black thing with the long, long arms? It looks positively demonic.

  41. Mike says:

    Father Z,

    I never saw an Easter Island statue come to life like it did in this liturgy (I assume it was supposed to be Our Lord). I have a question for you being that you are from Minnesota. Is that part of Minneapolis zoned for animals other than standard house pets such as the reindeer, wolf, raccoon, and bison that we saw during this liturgy? I’m not complaining about the lack of historical accuracy for I am sure that those creatures do not exist in the Holy Land. However, the parish may not only be committing liturgical abuse, but it also may be in violation of some city ordinance with the possession of these non-domesticated animals? Please advise.

  42. Jim Dorchak says:

    dominic1962

    No I am not joking……..

    If the Church says this is OK (obviously by their silence) then this must be accepted as ok.

    You see, we should be more tolerant and accepting of the differences in the Church. This Mass is just a different way of praying. To say that it is right or wrong is just incorrect. Because we just do not understand this type of prayer /Mass as a part of that faith community does not mean that we can say that they are wrong. That would be judgemental and uncharitable to these faithful Catholics who are experiencing Jesus in their own way.

    I do not understand how you all can be so down on this beautiful Mass. I see people who attend the Mass at my Church who have the same attitude and demeanor every Sunday. Who am I to argue with the Church that says that this is Ok?

    This is the Church, and we are the body of Christ, so how can it be wrong?

    Jim Dorchak

  43. Jo says:

    The giant puppets look bear an uncanny resemblance to the type of illustration that graces the covers of those cheap OCP paperback missalettes–do you think they are behind this?

  44. Trad Tom says:

    Oh, Jim…poor, poor misguided Jim.

  45. Katherine Therese says:

    What I still can’t understand is how this parish is considered in “good standing” with and in union with the Holy Father. Will the real Catholic Church please stand up, please stand up, please stand up?

  46. It’s basically a pageant, and a rather odd one.

    When did “Mass” actually start? I saw the video at you tube that ended with a scary black thing skulking around…

  47. AnnaTrad says:

    Jim Jim Jim have you not been listening to what the Pope has been saying or do you think that it dose not apple to you or these situations. He was very serious when he talked about the rupture in the Mass after Vatican II, and this is just an extreme example of what he is trying to get across. I would suggest you start to read his books and just maybe you will begin to understand why these productions are so wrong.

  48. cascadura says:

    To: AnonymousSeminarian
    Here is the quote in a fuller context:
    Pope Pius XII on the “Suicide of altering the faith in her liturgy”

    Msgr. Eugene Pacelli, the future Pope Pius XII, made the astonishing prophecy on the future upheavel in the Church:

    “I am worried by the Blessed Virgin’s messages to Lucy of Fatima. This persistence of Mary about the dangers which menace the Church is a divine warning against the suicide of altering the Faith, in Her liturgy, Her theology and Her soul. … I hear all around me innovators who wish to dismantle the Sacred Chapel, destroy the universal flame of the Church, reject Her ornaments and make Her feel remorse for Her historical past.
    “A day will come when the civilized world will deny its God, when the Church will doubt as Peter doubted. She will be tempted to believe that man has become God. In our churches, Christians will search in vain for the red lamp where God awaits them. Like Mary Magdalene, weeping before the empty tomb, they will ask, ‘Where have they taken Him?'”
    – Roche, Pie XII Devant L’Historie, p. 52-53

  49. Papabile says:

    Can anyone explain what that woman is wearing around her neck in the first photo. It looks like a stole!

  50. Rob says:

    What would Joan of Arc say, I wonder:

    “You spoil the sacraments of the Church, you tear up the articles of the Faith, you destroy the Churches, you break and burn the statues that were set up as memorials, you massacre Christians because they preserve the true Faith. What is this fury? Or what rage or madness consumes you? This Faith, which God Almighty, the Son, and the Holy Ghost have revealed, established, elevated to power, and glorified a thousand ways through miracles—you persecute this Faith, you wish to overthrow and destroy it. You are blind, but not because you lack eyes or understanding. Do you believe that you will remain unpunished for it? Or are you unaware that God opposes your unlawful efforts and will not permit you to remain in darkness and error? So that the more you indulge yourselves in crime and sacrilege, the more He will prepare great punishments and anguish for you.”
    (St. Joan of Arc)

  51. Rob says:

    I wonder what St. Joan of Arc would say?:

    “You spoil the sacraments of the Church, you tear up the articles of the Faith, you destroy the Churches, you break and burn the statues that were set up as memorials, you massacre Christians because they preserve the true Faith. What is this fury? Or what rage or madness consumes you? This Faith, which God Almighty, the Son, and the Holy Ghost have revealed, established, elevated to power, and glorified a thousand ways through miracles—you persecute this Faith, you wish to overthrow and destroy it. You are blind, but not because you lack eyes or understanding. Do you believe that you will remain unpunished for it? Or are you unaware that God opposes your unlawful efforts and will not permit you to remain in darkness and error? So that the more you indulge yourselves in crime and sacrilege, the more He will prepare great punishments and anguish for you.”
    (St. Joan of Arc)

  52. Even if this was outside the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass… (beginning of sacasm) they could have done better than this? Where the dancers from the REC in LA, if they’re going to scare children, scare them completely. (end of sarcasm)

    This was completely tacky even for OUTSIDE THE HSOTM. Period, I mean seriously, if they’re going to do a play on Palm Sunday, there are a lot better ways to do it….but I digress

    This parish does need a kick from the FSSP or the Caremlites, or some other solid order. The Pasto should be sent on a “vacation” to Antartica for this madness.

    Our Lady of Fatima, pray for us.

  53. Brian says:

    That doesn’t make me angry, it makes me sad.

    As I was watching it, I was reminded of the story of the golden calf in Exodus.

    Kyrie eleison. Christe eleison. Kyrie eleison.

  54. Although this year it’s Sacred Heart Day, 30 May is St. Joan’s feast (I wonder if they even observe it). It would be a wonderfully apt day to pray for this long-troubled parish (it’s heartbreaking to hear the readily-available interviews with the first pastor of this nonsense period, who blithely — not to say chillingly — describes how people left the parish en masse after he (unilaterally) wrecked their liturgy.

    Maybe Father might consider posting the Proper Office for St. Joan. It’s a beautiful set of texts, with appropriately martial language.

  55. Jim Dorchak says:

    “Jim Jim Jim have you not been listening to what the Pope has been saying or do you think that it dose not apple to you or these situations. He was very serious when he talked about the rupture in the Mass after Vatican II, and this is just an extreme example of what he is trying to get across. I would suggest you start to read his books and just maybe you will begin to understand why these productions are so wrong.

    Comment by AnnaTrad — 28 May 2008 @ 5:31 pm”

    and

    “Oh, Jim…poor, poor misguided Jim.

    Comment by Trad Tom — 28 May 2008 @ 4:40 pm ”

    Ok the ruse is on you………………………..

    and on all of us, me included.

    I am only pointing out two very important facts with the absurdity of the obvious.

    First:

    This is how the Church is in many (dare I say Most) places, and the arguments that I put before you are the very arguments that I have heard from the mouths of our Bishops and Priests.

    I have been personally berated for not conforming, fitting in, to this style of Catholicism! I should not be a “Latin Masser”, traditional Catholic….. (it makes them feel uncomfortable in their ignorance). After all we are second class Catholics who should be quiet, take our children (many) and go away.

    This is why I know all of the Barney the Purple Dinosar Speak / Modern Church Speaky Lingo! It has been heaped at me All for wanting a weekly Latin Mass. How dare I!

    Second and the most Important.

    EITHER I AM DEAF OR THE BISHOPS DO NOT CARE!

    I have been told that many Bishops through out the world read this blog.

    Where are their voices?

    Have you heard any? I have not. Surely the Bishop knows that this church in his dioces has made world wide attention as the laughing stock of the Church.

    (Golf game? Ruth Crists steak house? dental work? What where are they?)

    They could blog as a bishop here on these pages. Where are our Cardinals?

    I will tell you where.

    They are cowering in the corner, afraid to be the Men that they have been called to be.
    Yes this is one blog, one thread, one day in time.

    Where have they been for all the other days / months / years?

    It is sad.

    What boy would want to be a Priest / Bishop / Cardinal if it meant no longer being a

    MAN?

    Jim Dorchak

  56. caleb1x says:

    “In terris sola creatura est quam Deus propter seipsam voluerit.” These puppet Masses and countless other ostentations, don’t arise from nothing. They’re material manifestations of a new doctrine.

  57. Antiquarian says:

    As sad, and enraging, as things like this are– it is not new. In the Middle Ages there was a tradition (small “t,” I hasten to point out) of liturgical drama that lasted for centuries. At the beginning these were spare and dignified, really not much more than antiphonally chanted dialogue from the scriptures. But they became over-elaborate, unseemly, and distracting– there are contemporary accounts of mocking enactments of the consecration WITHIN Mass– and the Church responded by forbidding their use, whereupon the plays moved outside the churches (and, it must be said, outside the Church’s control).

    None of that is meant as a defense of this nonsense; it merely is to say that these poor dolts who think they are being so innovative are merely playing out an old, old story.

  58. AnnaTrad says:

    Well Jim you really had me going but I get your point. Well put.

  59. mwa says:

    Calleva – according to the descriptions from the St. Joan website, the big black figure is supposed to be “Night.”
    Papabile – if you look through all the still photos with commentary at the Orate Fratres site, you can see that the purple strip around the neck of that woman (the narrator) and other members of the congregation are the “lamentations” that they all attach to the “Jesus” puppet later on.

  60. Jennie says:

    WOW! My oldest son (11), kind hearted, quite innocent for his age, altar boy for the daily 630am Mass (who said one morning, “I wish I could do this every day”-future priest?) said it looked like a Mass of Mr. Potato head people, or one of those planets with weird aliens in Star Wars. All four of my younger kids laughed and when I told them what it was said completely shocked, “Really?” They didn’t believe me. My 9 year old son said, “Mom, I don’t think kids would actually like that because those puppets are kind of scary…or is it for the adults?”

    Jennifer

  61. mwa says:

    Brian – you’re not the only one to recall the golden calf. “The worship of the golden calf is a self-generated cult. When Moses stays away for too long, and God himself become inaccessible, the people just fetch him. Worship becomes a feast that the community gives itself, a festival of self-affirmation. Instead of being worship of God, it becomes a circle closed in on itself; eating, drinking, and making merry. The dance around the golden calf is an image of this self-seeking worship. It is a kind of banal self-gratification.

    The narrative of the golden calf is a warning about any kind of self-initiated and self-seeking worship. Ultimately, it is no longer concerned with God but with giving oneself a nice little alternative world, manufactured from one’s own resources. Then liturgy really does become pointless, just fooling around. Or still worse it becomes an apostasy from the living God, an apostasy in sacral disguise. All that is left in the end is frustration, a feeling of emptiness.” -Joseph Ratzinger, The Spirit of the Liturgy

  62. Cygnus says:

    “We are the priests that say . . . NI!” :-D

    And I am the parishioner who says, “Heck, no.”

  63. Jim Dorchak says:

    “Well Jim you really had me going but I get your point. Well put.

    Comment by AnnaTrad — 28 May 2008 @ 8:05 pm”

    Thanks

    Sometimes it takes a little eye opener to see the average.

    Jim Dorchak

  64. Trad Tom says:

    Thanks for the clarification, Jim. Your point is well-taken.

  65. Oremus says:

    I’m sorry, but this is not the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass! I am in tears. Lord have mercy.

  66. Louise says:

    To quote my four year old son when he saw this, “That’s not nice. Our Mass (EF) is nice”. And at four, he knows you have to “walk quietly” in Church.

    I wish I could say I don’t believe it could happen, but these days I will believe anything can.

  67. Warren Anderson says:

    Obedience, obedience, obedience. Celebrate the Sacraments according to the rubrics, stop the manipulation of innocents and stop the other goofy activities. If people fail to comply, they’ve confirmed the obvious: they believe their agenda supersedes the legitimate authority of the Church. So, require the pastor to make a course correction and censure him if necessary. Parishioners who are obstinate about the promotion of deviant activity will likely leave, vocally at first, and drift toward some “do-it-yourself” religion that reinforces their own inclinations – TEC, perhaps?

  68. Matt Q says:

    Not shocking in the least. Startling and disappointing, yes, but not shocking. None of the goings-on at these Masses are surprising or shocking anymore.

  69. Not shocking??? I’ve never ever seen anything like that! At the beginning I thought: “may be fr Z is wrong,
    may be that is a theater play, or a “sacred play” not a mass, it cant’be a mass…” but instead it is.
    I wonder why they have to mix up liturgy and devotional plays or religious entertainment. I am not
    against all this stuff outside the church and provided the texts are sound and catholic: as you know it is
    something that St Francis and all the franciscans (but also the Jesuits)have been doing for centuries (think
    about the via crucis in its solemn form, with “living pictures”), but NEVER AS A HOLY MASS!!

  70. patrick finley says:

    Wow.

    Now, the song they used at the begging (I only watched about a minute) is from Godspell. If you HAVE to use secular music atleast do it well. That had to be the worse rendition of that song ever.

    What is the deal with the dressed up people at a mass. Those werent vestments. It was a costume. I could understand if it was a play, but not in the mass. The Mass is NOT a show. To think there were so many children there too

    You can tell there is very little care there. No offense look at the altar vessels they are using, I could have gotten those at old time pottery. Altar vessels are supposed to be made of the finest materials, gold, silver, etc, not wood or clay or whatever that is. Of course I digress…perhaps the inside was lined with gold..hopefully.

    Pray for these people that God will open their hearts.

  71. Mr Wilburton says:

    I don’t know what the fuss is about. This kind of liturgy is fresh, interesting and full of energy and exuberance. I’d rather this than the dreaded “extraordinary form” with its sleep-inducing chants/silence, dour spirit and absurdly over-regulated robotic nature.

  72. Brian says:

    >>WOW! My oldest son (11), kind hearted, quite innocent for his age, altar boy for the daily 630am Mass (who said one morning, “I wish I could do this every day”-future priest?) said it looked like a Mass of Mr. Potato head people, or one of those planets with weird aliens in Star Wars. All four of my younger kids laughed and when I told them what it was said completely shocked, “Really?” They didn’t believe me. My 9 year old son said, “Mom, I don’t think kids would actually like that because those puppets are kind of scary…or is it for the adults?”>To quote my four year old son when he saw this, “That’s not nice. Our Mass (EF) is nice”.

  73. Brian says:

    Oooook. My whole post was cut off. I was just quoting someone from above and then I had more… so ignore that!

  74. Brian C. says:

    Mr. Wilburton,

    Are you enacting another “illustrate absurdity with absurdity” vignette, or are you serious?

    In Christ,
    Brian C.

  75. TJM says:

    I actually know some people who are parishioners there and I can state that they are truly children of the 1960s. They rebelled against their parents,
    their parents values, and they have NO regard for the heirarchy of the Church or the Pope. Hence, it’s a great situs for them to emote. I suspect the new
    Archbishop will have the unpleasant task of either removing the present “leadership” there in the faint hope of righting the ship or he may have to
    suppress the parish. After all, this parish has de facto left the Roman Catholic Church so why not end the charade and make it official. Tom

  76. patrick f says:

    Sunday Mass, is a time to worship. Not a time to throw a party. Does a more contemporary mass keep people awake? Sure. Does that make obvious liturgical abuses acceptible ? Not on your life.

    Mass, is being in the presence, having the priveledge of being in the presence, of Almighty God, through the sacrifice of his son Jesus Christ on the cross. That demands by its very nature that we show it the utmost respect, and it to be celebrated with the solemnity it deserves. Solemnity means setting it apart, not integrating it into popular culture or bending to popular demand.

    Sure, these people are having a “good time”. They are probably very involved. But the people at sinai sanced around the golden calf too. Neither situation is right. Now granted the rubrics do allow for “popular custom” to be invoked. That doesnt mean turn it into a circus though for the sake of filling pews. Its not us, or our acts that keep people in a church. It is the Almight, through the Holy spirit. Remember conversion is a constant thing. If it takes giving people a show to keep them in the pew, maybe they havent truly answered the Call to worship.

  77. David H. says:

    Why would one go to this church when they can get better secular music and production value at the UCC church down the block?

  78. AnnaTrad says:

    Mr. Wilburton it’s so tempting but I’m not going to be caught again. Nope not again.

  79. Scott W. says:

    “Are you enacting another “illustrate absurdity with absurdity” vignette, or are you serious?”

    Defenses of the indefensible are confusing like that aren’t they? That is to say, posting about the wonder, beauty, and reverence of the extraordinary form might get you blasted, flamed, smeared, caricatured, etc. but they ALWAYS know you are serious.

  80. Scott W. says:

    “Are you enacting another “illustrate absurdity with absurdity” vignette, or are you serious?”

    Defenses of the indefensible are like that aren’t they? That is to say, if you post about the beauty, wonder, and solemnity of the extraordinary form, you might get flamed and caricatured, but everyone will take it that you are serious.

  81. Mike says:

    I actually found it quite instructive and catechetical to see Christ laid low with all the sins of the world. But that’s the point I suppose – if it should be anywhere, it should be in a catechesis class, not at Mass. And why make Jesus look so scary?

  82. Bob says:

    This whole thing is just sad. I’ve watched the videos of St. Joan’s, along with that of the California Call to Action people. I just don’t understand how they consider this Catholic.

    I was about twelve when the Latin Mass was all but eradicated. This past Sunday, my wife and I attended Mass at a church we’ve never previously visited. Incense was used and although the words were in English, we did sing several songs in Latin. At the end, Benediction of the Blessed Sacrament was held. Again the use of incense and the singing of Tantum Ergo was beyond beautiful.

    The experience brought me to tears. I directly the Blessing to my children. Had I known about St. Joan’s, I would have directed it to their parish. They are very much in need of our prayer.

  83. Matt Q says:

    With all of this nonsense at these nightmare Masses, it follows right along with this article from today.

    http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=58736

    “Stations of the Cross Altered For World Youth Day.” They are omitting the three Falls of Jesus, and Veronica wiping His Face so that the non-Catholics who may attend won’t be offended!!

    Does anyone not see the absurdity of this? World Youth Day is a Catholic event and they are changing things to accommodate the non-Catholics who might show up. Who cares?! In other words, be ashamed of your Religion. Since there are those who don’t like it, change or hide things just for them. I wonder what those people would say if one had a retarded or mixed-race child or whatever and the company coming over didn’t like such “circumstances.” The answer, have the child spend the night over at relatives.

    Can’t even have Mass in a logical, reverent manner so they have to be heathen and bring in puppets and caricatures, and now screw up the Stations with the same message, disparage the Catholic Religion because there is so much of what we have which is offensive to others!!

  84. Thampa says:

    Hold on a second. Father, you write: “Here is the video which I captured …”

    Am I reading correctly, then, that you actually traveled to this parish for the purposes of capturing this ceremony on video? And then posted it to the internet?

    Please clarify!

  85. michigancatholic says:

    Jim Dorchak,
    You’re kidding, right? You must be kidding…..

    [MichiganCatholic mutters to herself…he must be kidding…some people sure have a sick sense of humor.]

  86. michigancatholic says:

    Jim Dorchak,
    You’re kidding, right? You must be kidding…..

    [MichiganCatholic mutters to herself…he must be kidding…some people sure have a sick sense of humor.]

    PS Thampa: I hope he did. Somebody needs to do this job and why not Fr. Z?

  87. Mary says:

    I can’t believe this. This is hideous! Those big things are scary – the stuff of monsters. If I was a little kid, I would be having nightmares after seeing things like that. Especially that big thing at the very end. It looked like the thing in the Exorcist or something out of a Stephen King novel. I pray to God that the bishop plays some whackamole with those people behind that.

  88. Michael says:

    Hell on earth. I wouldn’t go within 10 miles of such a place.