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Let’s get the famous quote right, please?
I am so tired of people misquoting this famous phrase from Hamlet.
When Hamlet asks his mother Queen Gertrude how she like his play, The Mousetrap, obviously tweeked, she says:
The lady doth protest too much, methinks. – Hamlet III, ii, 230
Also, let’s try to use it correctly.
Say it a few times outloud to yourself, to get it into your ears.
Also, that "protest," here, doesn’t mean "object to". It means "make a strong claim" about something. We still have that meaning in English "protestation".
What Gertrude means is not that the lady in Hamlet’s play within the play, is objecting to something or denying something. Rather, that she is making far too enthusiastic positive statements.
And don’t add useless syllables like "protestest" or "methinketh" or other stupidities.
Here, here Father! Give em…well, not hell but something quite akin to it. Too many people put on airs and attempt to quote something that for them, is not natural. Its part of their patrimony, but quite lost to them.
Comment by Melchior Cano — 15 May 2008 @ 8:16 pmYes, I think even that great literary scholar Bill O’Reilly misquoted this today.
Comment by Tom — 15 May 2008 @ 8:21 pmWhat a bloviater
Great catch on the meaning of protest! The OED has the quote listed under meaning 3b of “protest,” with the definition: “To make a formal or emphatic declaration or statement.” In Othello, the Iago’s epithet “honest” plays on the two meanings of “honest” prevalent at the time, honorable and truth-telling.
The phrase from Hamlet that seems to me most missquoted is, “Hoist with his owne petar.” Most people remember it as, “Hoisted on…,” which fails to take into account that the verb used is “to hoise” and that a petar(d) is a small explosive devise.
Comment by Ioannes — 15 May 2008 @ 8:52 pmWhat is not to like in a priest who defends the Bard’s words?
Well done!
Comment by Bill — 15 May 2008 @ 9:22 pmAnother great post! I’m a fan!
Comment by Christopher Humphries — 15 May 2008 @ 10:26 pmAnother common misquote is ‘Money is the root of all evil’ which I believe should really be ‘The love of money is the root of all evil.’ Biblical misquotes probably rival those of the bard!
Comment by elizabeth mckernan — 16 May 2008 @ 1:57 amYes! I am joining a traditional monastery and get asked all kinds of questions.
A lady(who seemed to know a lot) asked: “Do they still have a nine year novitiate?”
Me:[racking mind for any history of such a novitiate]”Um.. No, it’s only two years”
She replied with something to the effect of, “Well they must have changed it then! Novice, you see comes from the latin word meaning nine”
Me: “Really? And all this time I thought it was from the word meaning new.”
:)
Other ones I find funny are:
“One fell swoop” into “One foul sweep”.
“Faux pas” into “Fox Pass”.
I want you to be more pacific(specific)!
Comment by Drunken Monkey — 16 May 2008 @ 2:33 amWhat are you incinerating(insinuating)?
My fav from years of teaching writing…a freshmen, noting the messier bits of Girard’s theory of religion, names the who is sacrificed for the benefit of the many an “escape goat.” Now, though technically incorrect, you have to appreciate the unintentional pun, i.e. “the goat that allows others to escape their sins.” Fr. Philip, OP
Comment by PNP, OP — 16 May 2008 @ 3:56 amYou know Fr. Z, I wonder what you look like when you’re angry. But I’d like to be at least 20 feet away from that site.
Comment by Cliff — 16 May 2008 @ 6:07 amI see Father hath wasted no time in cracking open his new Joseph Pearce.
Comment by Jon — 16 May 2008 @ 6:08 amOne of my Doctoral advisors let us know that he would immediately reject any thesis that began with a “Forward”....
Comment by Chironomo — 16 May 2008 @ 6:39 amI’m not sure how my previous post relates to ANYTHING else here… I just thought it was an interesting twist on the “mistaken identity” of certain words… I’m kinda tired so cut me a break….
Comment by Chironomo — 16 May 2008 @ 6:52 am“I degree wit Fodda. And dat is perversely da vernacular of da situation.”—Slip Mahoney
Comment by Tom — 16 May 2008 @ 7:01 amCan we also ask that people stop saying “relator” and “jewlery”?
And there is no such thing as a “mute” point.
Comment by Patrick — 16 May 2008 @ 7:24 am“methinketh” is in my King James Hamlet.
Comment by WhollyRoamin'Catholic — 16 May 2008 @ 7:48 amCan we also agree that the expression of approval is: “Hear, hear”?
Comment by Romulus — 16 May 2008 @ 8:00 amFather is righteous in his indignation on this point, which has annoyed me for some years as well.
However, in a spirit of Ember Day penance, I will confess that Shakespeare has never been one of my favorite authors. For drama, give me Aeschylus and Sophocles, Euripides…but Shakespeare always left me feeling cold and unmoved. Literary blasphemy, I know, but try as I might, I have never been able to be enchanted by the Bard’s magic.
Comment by Dr. Lee Fratantuono — 16 May 2008 @ 8:28 amHowever, in a spirit of Ember Day penance, I will confess that Shakespeare has never been one of my favorite authors. For drama, give me Aeschylus and Sophocles, Euripides…but Shakespeare always left me feeling cold and unmoved. Literary blasphemy, I know, but try as I might, I have never been able to be enchanted by the Bard’s magic.
Comment by Dr. Lee Fratantuono —
For an American, Shakespeare can sound almost like another language. I have found that in order to appreciate the texts, it is often required to be exposed to them repeatedly—or memorize them.
Comment by RBrown — 16 May 2008 @ 8:40 am“Irregardless” of what you think, I shall continue to protest the use of legitimate quotes to make my points seem relevant.
Comment by jpoppe — 16 May 2008 @ 8:59 amOh, I was exposed to them repeatedly, and I am perfectly fine with Elizabethan English (and Old, and Middle). In fact, give me Beowulf any day over Shakespeare, or Chaucer. It’s not a question for me of the familiarity of the language…as a dramatist, in comparison to other dramatists (not only Greek but also French), Shakespeare never moved me to nearly the same degree.
Comment by Dr. Lee Fratantuono — 16 May 2008 @ 9:25 amAt the risk of looking pedantic, ‘quote’ is a verb, not a noun. If you are going to post in this vein, can we please have a gramatically correct headline –
“Let’s get the famous quotation right, please?”
My apologies, but two of my chief irritations in language these days are the use of “quote” for “quotation” and “invite” when people mean the noun “invitation”...
Comment by Matthew — 16 May 2008 @ 9:27 amFather –
Comment by Tony — 16 May 2008 @ 9:30 amIs this meaning of “protest” the one to which Protestants referred originally in calling themselves as such?
Matthew –
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/quote
According to Dictionary.com, using “quote” as a noun in place of “quotation” has become relatively accepted in informal speech, as an example of which I think this post qualifies.
Anyone who is able can feel free to correct the grammar of the preceding sentence if necessary.
Comment by Tony — 16 May 2008 @ 9:37 amMatthew, an article online is not speech, in the manner meant in the dictionary. It might have been more appropriate for the dictionary to refer to colloquial speech.
But in any event, given that Fr. Z was raising an issue with regard to correctness, it would have been more appropriate to use quotation than quote, regardless of your notion of what is meant by “speech”.
Comment by Bill — 16 May 2008 @ 9:42 amExcellent point on “quote”! It’s one of my favorite critiques to push!
Comment by Brandon — 16 May 2008 @ 9:45 amFather has opened a can of worm, methinks!
Comment by jarhead462 — 16 May 2008 @ 10:05 amFather has opened a can of worms, methinks! ;)
Comment by jarhead462 — 16 May 2008 @ 10:07 amWould somebody please return father’s goat? Thanks in advance.
Comment by Clayton — 16 May 2008 @ 10:09 amActually, “methinketh” would appear to be all right, at least according to this link:
http://piptalk.com/pip/Forum32/HTML/000183.html
If you think about it, “methinks” is of course widely used by Shakespeare, and the “eth” termination would only be a more archaic form? That said, I’ve never seen it used that way. But it appears logical, from what the author of the link says, in that it doesn’t actually mean “I think” but is a valid way of saying “it appears to me” – hence the “me” which is actually dative and doesn’t stand for “I” as in “I think”. So archaising it as “methinketh” should therefore be ok?
But I won’t dare use it, all the same, now that it has been declared “nefas” :)
Comment by jaykay — 16 May 2008 @ 10:11 amMatthew: You beat me to the punch! Some of you have mentioned my other pet peeves, such as “irregardless.” I used to run into such things constantly when I taught Shakespeare at University
Comment by bear — 16 May 2008 @ 10:15 amjaykay: Who cares if “methinketh” is a correct form? It is not what Shakespeare wrote for Hamlet III, ii, 230, which so many people goof up when quoting.
Seriously, it is interesting to see these archaic forms.
Tangentially, let’s remember that forms such as “thy, thou an thee” are actually informal, rather than lofty speech, though they have changed in their connotation as they fell from use.
Comment by Fr. John Zuhlsdorf — 16 May 2008 @ 10:52 amWould somebody please return father’s goat? Thanks in advance.
No. The goat simply escaped.
Comment by Marcin — 16 May 2008 @ 11:57 am“But in any event, given that Fr. Z was raising an issue with regard to correctness, it would have been more appropriate to use quotation than quote, regardless of your notion of what is meant by “speech”.”
Or irregardless.
Anyway, Fr. Z wasn’t taking issue with the finer points of Shakespeare’s grammar but with the tendency of people to misquote and corrupt famous sayings. So I think it was fairly pedantic, although probably correct, to correct the good Father.
Comment by Tony — 16 May 2008 @ 1:24 pmMy personal pet peeve (alliteration!) is “Play it again, Sam” which is attributed to Bogart. The actual line is “Play it Sam, for old times’ sake, play ‘As Time Goes By’” said by Ingrid Bergman. Bogart’s line is somewhat similar: “You played it for her, you can play it for me. ... If she can stand it, I can! Play it!”
Comment by John Enright — 16 May 2008 @ 2:03 pmPatrick:
Comment by John Enright — 16 May 2008 @ 2:23 pmRelator is a real word. I suspect that you mean “stop using this word to designate a real estate salesman.” In that sense, you’re right. In the proper sense, relator is a legal term identifying the real party in interest in a case being prosecuted by a governmental body. If you’ve ever seen a case caption like Commonwealth ex rel Smith v. Jones, Smith would be the relator.
Mr. Enright,
Yes, that is what I meant. Thanks, I didn’t know there was such a word!
Comment by Patrick — 16 May 2008 @ 2:38 pmJust for the sake of pointless pedentry, I checked the Enfolded Hamlet website to see the original versions of the lines from the two main original sources for Hamlet. The variants of that line are as follows:
The Lady protests too much mee thinks.
and
The Lady doth protest too much mee thinks.
Not too much of a difference, but there is a little wiggle room when quoting.
Comment by bear — 16 May 2008 @ 2:41 pmThe Lady protests too much mee thinks.
and
The Lady doth protest too much mee thinks.
Doesn’t the insertion mess up the meter?
Comment by Marcin — 16 May 2008 @ 3:03 pmFar worse is the way “The proof of the pudding is in the tasting” has become “The proof is in the pudding.” I say far worse because this shortened form makes absolutely no sense and yet it is used constantly.
Comment by David O'Rourke — 16 May 2008 @ 3:12 pm“The Lady doth…” has the better meter, but the meter in that scene is pretty much all over the map, at least in modern pronunciations.
Comment by