QUAERITUR: kissing the ring of a bishop

From a reader:

I am a daily reader of your blog and have learned a number of things over the last few months.  So, thank you.  However, I have a question…
 
I am planning on attending the installation of Msgr. Barry Knestout as Bishop in the Archdiocese of Washington DC on Monday, Dec. 29th.  When I was a young boy, it was common practice to kneel and kiss the ring of a a Cardinal, Archbishop or Bishop.  However, I have only seen one person in the last 20 or 25 years do this (my mother-in-law last year). 
 
Is this still an acceptable practice?  Does anyone follow it anymore?  It is one of those traditions that have gone by the wayside?

Yes, this is still a legitimate custom.  I recommend it.

However, be sure to genuflect with the left knee rather than the right, which differentiates your gesture of respect from that which you give God alone, for example in the Blessed Sacrament or the mention of the Holy Name at certain times, and other occasions.

Some bishops get all flustered by this practice.  They either are, from true humility, not comfortable with the counter-cultural sign of respect, or in a kind of false humility are latching on to a egalitarian view of their office. 

Genuflecting and kissing the ring of the bishop, especially the local ordinary bishop and every cardinal is a very good custom.

If kneeling is physically not possible, a bow to kiss the ring is acceptable.

Remember that the gesture is symbolic.  You don’t have to really lay one on the ring, okay?  Even if you just come very near, you’ve done your part.

Also, keep in mind that it is a good custom to ask bishops and priests for their blessing.  You can say, "Father (Your Excellency/Your Eminence), may I ask your blessing?".  If you can kneel on both knees to receive it that is best.  Kiss the bishop’s ring after the blessing and before rising.  You may also kiss the hand of the priest, which is a fine custom now nearly vanished.

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54 Responses to QUAERITUR: kissing the ring of a bishop

  1. Variously Curious says:

    What about Aux Bishops? Should their ring be kissed too?

  2. Jacob says:

    Curious:

    Bishops are bishops, even if they are titular bishops of long conquered or deserted cities from antiquity. Kissing the ring is due to their office, not the place.

  3. miss book says:

    Thanks Fr., I just realised that I habitually genuflect to the Blessed Sacrament on my left knee (maybe it’s to do with being left handed?)I will try to correct this habit.

  4. Quaesumus says:

    I might add a note for priests: granted, it will happen only very rarely, if at all, but for those of us that do like to venerate priests’ hands, it makes it much easier and less awkward when the priest isn’t shaking his hand all willy nilly like there’s an earthquake in the room and he’s using you for balance. I’ve been punched in the mouth more than once! A simple dignified shake that stops when the person’s head is going in for the kill is sufficient and more than appreciated!

  5. Ad Orientem says:

    In the Orthodox Church it is still very much the custom to kiss the hands of a priest and even in some cases monks. Our bishops however don’t wear rings as a symbol of office so that’s not something we do. We kiss their hands as well. The difference is that with the priest we say “Father bless” and with the bishop we say “Master bless.”

    In ICXC
    John

  6. Fr. BJ says:

    I’ve noticed that a lot of hispanics (and also some orientals — Koreans I think) still are accustomed to kissing priests’ hands. With the orientals there is a lot of bowing that goes on too.

    The hand-kissing thing really caught me by surprise the first time!

  7. Franzjosf says:

    Down here in Mobile, Alabama, (where I am at present) there will be the annual Roman Catholic/Orthodox Epiphany Procession. (Clergy: A Roman Catholic Monsignor and Archbishop, a Greek Orthodox Priest, and a Russian Orthodox Priest) Many of the Greek faithful kiss the Roman Catholic Archbishop’s ring!

  8. Pelicanus says:

    The following question occurs to me:

    If you are receiving a blessing from a bishop in a non-liturgical setting, should you kneel on the right knee, the left knee, or both knees? Is it the same as for any other cleric?

  9. After the Mass at which I received priestly ordination, a couple of priests came to me (each new priest stood in a different corner, where folks came for the “first blessing”), knelt for the blessing, then kissed my hands, and in doing so, held both close to their face, kissing one palm, then the other, then inhaled the chrism. It is a lovely custom that overwhelmed me, and I resolved I would do the same ever after. In the parish, there are a handful of people who who kiss my hand.

    I am well aware of cranky people who object to this, and others who do not understand it. A pity. I was very sad about something that happened the year after I was ordained, when I did this for a new priest, a friend, who is more liberal than I. I was sad, not because of how he received it–he accepted it graciously, and I think he understood its meaning; but his father, observing, guffawed. My friend, the new priest, was mortified, as was I–not for my sake, but for his.

    Receiving this honor, it becomes more obvious to me, than a light flashing across the entire sky would be, that is this about honoring Jesus Christ–who is the true priest, and who the ordained priest, I tremble to say, makes present in a unique and powerful way. Secondarily, it is about honoring the Church, which is His Body. But for the ordained to object…would be like the oil of the chrism “objecting” to being treated as sacred. Well, it is sacred, by the action of Christ through his Church, it’s not a matter of ones own merit!

  10. FrPaul says:

    My understanding is that one only genuflects to a bishop having jurisdiction – to all intents and purposes the diocesan bishop – and to Cardinals of the Holy Roman Church outside Rome. For any other bishop (auxiliaries, visiting bishops etc.) one should bow to kiss the ring.

  11. John from Dublin says:

    I am sorry, but the left knee genuflecting is simply an urban legend.

  12. Catholic Guy says:

    I work at an Archdiocese and see my Archbishop periodically, usually in group settings…but I’ve not asked to kiss his ring. I’m fearful that it would cause him to be uncomfortable.

    Is the custom to address a Bishop as ‘Your Excellency’ gone forever? Do any other Chancery’s do this?

  13. Roland de Chanson says:

    I agree with John from Dublin. I have never heard of genuflexion by the left knee. Is this something post-V2? I very much doubt it preceded V2, but I have been wrong before and may well be again.

  14. Fr. Gary V. says:

    It is still a custom in the Philippines for Filipino Catholics to kiss the ring of the bishop or the hand of a priest. When new Filipino immigrants attend Sunday Masses in our parish here in the US, after the Mass they greet me by kissing my right hand or pressing their forehead to my right hand as a sign of respect. I always give them a blessing after the gesture.

  15. Papabile says:

    The “left knee” and kisses associated with jurisdiction definitely were a habitual custom were at different points legislated. I forget exactly when.

    Having spent much too much time up in the Theology stacks at CUA, I distinctly remember reading a 1932 dissertation on privileges associated with the jurisdiction of a Bishop, and Abbot and a Pastor.

    I’ll see if I can dig it up again when I have the time. It annoys me to hear people dismiss the “left knee” as “urban legend”.

  16. John from Dublin says:

    The liturgical genuflection to the Ordinary is to be done with the right knee, just like to the Blessed Sacrament, the relics of the Passion, the cross at the altar by the server, the cross on Good Friday, etc. The left knee geneflection is not referenced in any serious liturgical manual. And just try with the left and see what happens ;)

  17. Roland de Chanson says:

    A bit of google research turned up a link of two:

    At http://donjim.blogspot.com/2005/11/left-knee-genuflections.html the writer says that the left-knee posture is a custom mainly among Irish Americans, but not found in the liturgical rubrics. I grew up in a mainly Irish American parish and, as I say, I’d never heard of it. In those days, a ceremonial faux pas was corrected by a swift coup de poing from the nearest nun. There is a number of photos in the linked baciamano article; Archbishop Flores is clearly recto genu kissing JP2’s ring, Paul VI’s osculator anuli is on his right knee, Yasser Arafat is on both feet rather than either knee.

    Another site called “fisheaters.com” (!) (http://www.fisheaters.com/posture.html) makes the same distinction Fr. Zuhlsdorf.

    New Advent’s Catholic Encyclopedia article does not specify a left-knee genuflexion.

  18. Garrett says:

    Haha. This reminds me of an episode a couple of months ago. I attended Mass at the church in my college town, and afterwards the priest was greeting people outside the narthex. I decided to kiss his hand – I figured, “Whatever. To heck with what people may think. The only way these customs will EVER be recovered is if people just START DOING IT and stop obsessing about what others, or even the priest, may think.” So I did just that. He was surprised, to be sure, and said something like, “Oh my! That’s very nice.” I had to keep from rolling my eyes, since his response made it clear he basically had no idea of what the symbolic gesture meant. I guess he thought I was just sucking up. I haven’t done it since, but I do plan on doing it again.

    I would recommend everyone who is brave enough just START DOING IT. If enough people do it, perhaps the priest will take the two minutes it takes to discover what is meant by this beautiful, Catholic gesture.

  19. John of Dublin: This discussion isn’t restricted to, or even relevant to, liturgical genuflections. Please note what the question was. This is a fellow who will meet the bishop after his consecration.

  20. Roland de Chanson says:

    As a small divertimentum obiter dictum, I realized as I reread my previous post that I had used the diminutive anulus for “ring”; this is in the event a most felicitous use of the euphemistic diminutive, since the normal word began to have, how shall I say? an unsavory connotation — which would have been even more emphasised in the osculator context, and might, without cautionary rubrics, result in an exceedingly unorthodox form of obsequious praxis. An episcopal ring, however large, is still an anulus. ;-)

    BTW, there is another Latin word, anus, -ûs (but with a short “a”) which means “an old hag.” Latin was a very salty and witty language.

  21. Megan says:

    Garrett, good for you. :) You’re right, the only way these forgotten traditions will ever re-surface is if people just suck it up and do it. Another good way to bring about other traditions is to kneel for Communion, genuflect at “et incarnatus est” during the Credo, and kneel for the final blessing (all at NO Masses).

    Kissing the ring is a beautiful gesture – I wish more people could realize what has been said on this post.

  22. Geoffrey says:

    My previous bishop was very hostile to anyone reverencing his ring. I once saw a little old Vietnamese man genuflect and kiss his ring and the bishop pulled away. Our new bishop allows it, however. He seems uncomfortable, but doesn’t make a scene. I have never done it myself. Yet.

  23. Andy K. says:

    Fr. (or anyone else for that matter),
    How would one kiss the hand of a priest? Is it much like the stereotypical man-kissing-woman’s hand?? Or something else?

    Many thanks!

  24. John of Dublin says:

    Father, true, but one thing leads to another ;) BTW Archbishop Martin of Dublin has no problem with his faithful genuflecting and kissing his ring.

  25. josephus muris saliensis says:

    Fr Fox: Very sad if this custom is gone near you, and please try to bring it back wherever you can. The first blessing in Europe is followed by the priest offering both hands palm up, to be venerated (kissed). This is not because of the Chrism (which I have never smelled, and I am very olfactory), but because these are now Christ’s hands, and thus we are reverencing both the sacrament and the Church, Christ’s Body, through them, in a pretty complex layer of symbolism.

    All: Never heard of left-knee genuflexions here, just tried, it, albeit post-prandial, and nearly fell over! Certainly the bishop would have had to help me up, so I heartily do not recommend this!

  26. You have to hand wrestle some bishops to attempt to kiss their ring.Some will actually turn the ring around to prevent this gesture.I was disappointed that Bishop Sheen (whom I knew)disliked having someone trying to kiss his ring.German theologian,Karl Adam,said it was a mark of respect for the apostolic office NOT for the individual bishop and that when you kiss a bishop’s ring you are kissing the ring of all the apostles.Mother Theresa kissed a bishop’s ring.I doubt that anyone would have refused her. To allow a person to kiss his ring probably makes a bishop feel awkward.That is why to allow someone to kiss his ring IS a sign of humility.

  27. I have had people, usually Italian or Eastern European, kiss my hand. Since they have shown this reverence for the priesthood and Jesus Christ I always follow it with a blessing. Is this correct or should the order be reversed or does it matter?

    Also, at times after kissing my hand some people have kissed the medal of St. Alphonsus and the Most Holy Redeemer that hangs from the end of the habit rosary or have asked to kiss the smaller crucifix we wear about our necks but is kept in a pocket inside the breast of the habit. Has anyone else heard of this? This is not the large Missionary’s Crucifix we wear in our cincture when preaching but a smaller “pectoral cross” we are invested with at profession and wear “hidden” within the habit.

  28. Jane Teresa says:

    I’d been wondering about this. Thanks for addressing this topic, Father.

    If Bishops are to get flustered about people kissing their rings, I would suggest that in most cases the humility is misplaced. The gesture was never about *them* as such, but about the dignity of their office. If anything, it is an extremely humbling gesture, when properly understood.

    I’ve a question on kissing priests’ hands. Does one kneel or genuflect (on the left knee, the right?), or simply stand upright? Does one kiss the back of the hand or the palm?

  29. John W. says:

    I recently served Mass for our Archbishop at a Mass honoring St. Florian. It was all firefighters filling in as Altar boys. I first kissed the Archbishop’s ring and all six followed my example. We must honor the successors to the apostles.

  30. Paladin says:

    Andy K. wrote: Fr. (or anyone else for that matter),
    How would one kiss the hand of a priest? Is it much like the stereotypical man-kissing-woman’s hand?? Or something else?

    Ditto that question! (Thanks for asking, Andy–I was too bashful and/or forgetful to ask, whenever this topic came up!) Details would be good. I have a vague memory of Italians grasping a priest’s hand with the fingers facing away (sort of the “thumb-to-thumb handshake of “cool dudes”) when they kissed the back of the priest’s hand, but that may’ve been a personal preference of theirs…

  31. James says:

    The left knee is NOT an “urban legend”. One genuflects on the RIGHT knee only to God! To the Holy Father, a Cardinal,a bishop, etc, one genuflects on the LEFT knee. This is longstanding practice throughout the church for hundreds of years. How do I know? I found very specific details and instructions on this in a 19th century book for children on Catholic Customs.

    Just because we may have lost track of these things or you happen to be ignorant of them does not make them a “legend”.

  32. TA1275 says:

    I serve at the National Shrine in Washington and we make a point of kissing the bishops’ ring in the sacristy as they visit fairly often.

  33. Fr Joseph says:

    In addition to the experiences mentioned above I would add that I have had South Indians and Tamils kiss the back of my hand or touch it to their forehead.
    One of the most humbling and moving experiences I had in this regard was when I was visiting a friend at a female Benedictine monastery founded originally by Polish nuns. The monastery was very modernized – no habits, Enneagram, home-made inclusive liturgies, etc. My friend, who spoke Polish, took me to the infirmary to meet some of the oldest Sisters, who barely spoke English. She said to me “they suffer under our new style of life.” They were all in wheelchairs and in habits. When she introduced me to them and said I had Polish grandparents they started crying, and grabbed my hand and kissed it. I gave them a blessing (in Latin) and we moved on. It was one of those moments when I really understood viscerally how the Priesthood is greater than I am.

  34. Jordanes says:

    James said: The left knee is NOT an “urban legend”. One genuflects on the RIGHT knee only to God! To the Holy Father, a Cardinal,a bishop, etc, one genuflects on the LEFT knee. This is longstanding practice throughout the church for hundreds of years.

    And on which knee does one genuflect before a king?

    I rather suspect with most people if they attempted to genuflect of their left knee, they’d lose their balance and fall over.

    I found very specific details and instructions on this in a 19th century book for children on Catholic Customs.

    Got any better source? Something authoritative?

  35. Geoffrey says:

    “And on which knee does one genuflect before a king?”

    Neither. You bow before a sovereign (and women curtsy).

  36. Mary says:

    Wonderful memory from this summer: I had heard that Bishop Bruskewitz he was in the area, but I wasn’t going to any scheduled events, or anything. But I was walking and saw a door open. Black shoes…black blazer… ah-hah, silver chain tucked into breast pocket, sure sign of a Bishop. I said, “Are you Bishop Bruskewitz?” He said, “Yes, I am,” extending his right hand with the ring on it in an unobtrusive way, neither holding it out peremptorily nor shying from the honor. I knelt and kissed it, asked him for his blessing, he gave it, asked my name kindly, and went along on his way. He didn’t have time to stay and talk, but he gave me a few moments and didn’t rush. A true gentleman, and a bishop who was not ashamed of being a bishop.

    (For those who may be slightly dismayed at the clerical suit, I met him again a few days later, in cassock and violet cincture. Those may be the two best two-minute conversations of my life.)

  37. Ad Orientem says:

    Andy K & Paladin
    With respect to the correct manner to kiss a priest’s hands, I am not sure how it is done in the Roman Church. In the Orthodox Church (and I believe among the Uniate Catholics) the costume is to approach the priest and ask his blessing, usually by saying “Father bless” while presenting your hands clasped together right over left palm up. The priest makes the sign of the cross over your hands and ends by placing his blessing hand in your open right palm. You then bend and kiss the top of the priest’s hand.

    In the case of a bishop the method is the same except we say “master bless.” Some Orthodox will perform a metania before a bishop or an especially revered priest or monastic elder when asking for their blessing. This is done by making the sign of the cross and then bowing profoundly (from the waist) and touching the ground with your right hand. After which you approach with right had over left, palm up as described above. Metanias are also commonly done by Orthodox (especially Russians) when entering and leaving a church and before venerating icons (especially of Our Lord).

    In ICXC
    John

  38. Peter Karl T. Perkins says:

    I was taught that you genuflect to kiss the ring of the diocesan bishop in his own diocese, the metropolitan archbishop within his own province, and a cardinal or the Pope anywhere. For other bishops, you are supposed to bow low to kiss the ring.

    I’ve also heard that the business of genuflecting on the left knee for clerics is confined to North America. I don’t know whether that’s true or not. It’s what I’ve heard.

    P.K.T.P.

  39. PNP, OP says:

    When Bishop Fiorenza was made Archbishop of Houston, I kissed his ring after the liturgy. I’d only met him once before and had been told that he was a very humble man. He looked a little uncomfortable but took the sign for what it was. When I met Cardinal Arinze at the Univ of Dallas last year, I tried to kiss his ring but couldn’t b/c he was standing in a crowded doorway in a tee shirt and pants. He said, “Not to worry, Son of Dominic!” Excellent.

    Fr. Philip, OP

  40. PNP, OP says:

    I should explain the “tee-shirt and pants” comment above…I was the Cardinal’s escort and sacristan for his visit to U.D. I was fetching him for his first meeting and met him at the door of his room at 7.00am!

  41. GJP says:

    http://dspace.wrlc.org/view/ImgViewer?img=2&url=http://dspace.wrlc.org/doc/manifest/2041/28930

    A fun “blast from the past” for those participating in the “right knee vs. left knee” debate.

  42. Mickey says:

    I was born in 1965, so I don’t remember much of the pre-conciliar ways, but I have always kissed the ring of any bishop I have met. Sometimes it catches them off-guard…sadly many are not accustomed to it…but nonetheless, a successor to the Apostles deserves no less.

  43. Chris M says:

    Heck, I kissed my Bishop’s ring when I was still an Episcopalian! You think CATHOLIC Bishops get uncomfortable with it? You should see the more ‘evangelical’ Anglican Bishops react!

    I firmly intend to continue this wonderful custom and to teach it to my children.

  44. Jordanes says:

    Geoffrey said: Neither. You bow before a sovereign (and women curtsy).

    Says who? Before which sovereign? In which era of history?

  45. Corpsman says:

    Jordanes,
    Man, you spend some time on the internet man….

  46. Maureen says:

    I’m post-Vatican II…. Nobody ever instructed us about which knee to genuflect on — not even my mom, who is usually a font of this knowledge. I always thought you genuflected on the knee closest to the pew, so that you could haul yourself back up without bumping your up knee against the hard wood of the pew. Being righthanded, I always thought that a genuflection without a pew to hang onto meant genuflecting with the left knee down, so that you could counterbalance with your right hand. Right-knee genuflection without a pew sounds like a good way to wobble.

  47. MC says:

    Ceremonial kissing, either liturgically or the kissing of a priest’s hand or bishop’s ring, is not a smooch. There should be no mmmwwaaaa sound at all. Nor is the episcopal ring a Blow Pop that is sucked on, as a child would do. One simply places one’s lips to the hand or article.

    One does not pull the hand to one’s face. Usually, as one is genuflected, one raises the bishop’s hand gently if the bishop does not do it himself. His hand is received either with one or two hands. Normally the bishop will extend his hand as though for a handshake (they have become quite accustomed to handshaking over kissing, in most cases). One would take his hand and genuflect all in one motion, leaving the hand at the height it was previously. This makes it easier to kiss without causing the bishop to be tugged about.

    The kissing of a priest’s hand is done from a bowed position rather than from a kneeling position. You might say that it is the same manner of kissing as described above, but instead of genuflecting, one would make a profound bow. In this case, the kiss is made to the back of his hand rather than to the finger area. This custom is easier to practice among certain cultures rather than others, cultures where tasteful public displays of affection are more naturally acceptable. One might compare German culture with Italian or Hispanic cultures. In the latter, for example, one often receives a kiss upon meeting another person in public.

    I cannot comment intelligently about which knee should be on the ground for the kissing of a bishop’s ring. I have heard of the left-knee proposition, but never have I seen it reinforced with any authoritative prescription.

    These days many bishops pull their hands away from the well-intentioned lips of the faithful. This may cause an uneasy situation for someone who might already feel a bit awkward about the whole matter. If it does occur, I would recommend patience and prudence. Simply treat the withdrawal as a very natural thing, and thank the bishop before you leave his presence. Then pray for him, not specifically that he might allow you to kiss his ring the next time around, but that he understand what the office of bishop means to the children of God.

    I am not quoting from any book. I write only from experience. Take from it what you will. Thank you.

  48. James III says:

    I asked my local ordinary if I may kiss his ring, he said he would prefer not. :( So I pray for him that he may even more.

    Now when I see a Bishop I do not ask but assume that I should. I still refrain from kissing my own Bishop’s ring out of obedience, though I do not tell others not to do so.

  49. Thomas says:

    I planted one on the ring of His Excellency John Joseph Meyers, Archbishop of Newark, when I stood as sponsor for my niece’s Confirmation this fall. I was the only one to do so, much to the embarrassment of my 14 y.o. niece. I am not certain that His Excellency was totally on board with my gesture, but I think the office takes precedence over the wishes of the man who fill it.

    Merry Christmas to all my fellow WDTPRSers, and especially to you Father Z. You bring us so much joy throughout the year. Your podcazts are like little Christmas gifts all year long. god bless you. [Thanks! And thanks for your participation!]

    Glory to God in the highest and peace on earth to men of good will!

  50. Thomas says:

    Change that to God! A typo not a revert to paganism. O stercus!

  51. Prof. Basto says:

    Here in Brazil the old custom (from the old days prior to the Second Vatican Council), which custom is now almost completely lost, was to kiss the hands of every priest with a bow, and to kiss the ring of a Cardinal or Bishop with a genuflection.

    Being a trad, I still kiss consacrated hands the hands of every priest I meet, and I kiss the hands of bishops with a profound bow from the waist (due to my three previous knee surgeries, I cannot kneel/genuflect without pain and effort, and thus I only kneel in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament, and even so I can only phisically accomplish it when there is a kneeler or some other structure where I can place my hands, so that I transfer the body’s weight to the hands when bending the knees and when rising).

    Most priests prefer to shake hands, but I find this an absurdity. So, when they make the gesture to shake hands, I just go ahead and kiss hands.

  52. EJ says:

    Oh boy…with all due respect – I have never heard of any authority which codifies EXACTLY how this gesture is performed other than how Father describes it above. As in all things common sense should be the rule. I have been an MC for 10 years, 5 of them as a lay MC at a certain shrine in a certain capital city, and I am having a lot of trouble envisioning or even imagining just touching your motionless lips to a prelate’s ring. I have never, ever heard or seen that in all of my years. It is a kiss, it is not an exaggerated kiss or a kiss meant to have any dramatic effect, but it is a subtle quick kiss nonetheless. I do agree that some over-eager well-intentioned people just KILL this gesture by doing this or that, probably from on-the-spot nervousness. This is a gesture of deep and sincere respect for the office of bishop – it is meant to be from the heart and as natural as possible. Given how most bishops and cardinals that you will bump into are probably in a hurry to get somewhere – a bow as you kiss his ring is alot more feasible than actually parking the man in front of you as you genuflect etc. If you have more time, well then lucky you – that’s different. In my experience, at least here in the USA – the gesture is appreciated the vast majority of the time, even if it is unexpected. Go for it!

  53. Jayna says:

    Though I’ve never met him myself, based on pictures I’ve seen of people meeting our archbishop, I’m pretty sure he doesn’t encourage anyone to kiss his ring. That is not to say, however, that I wouldn’t make the attempt should I ever meet him.

    As to kissing the hands of priests, the Hispanic community in my parish still practice this custom pretty regularly, but only with our Hispanic priest. I am pretty sure that if I were to do it though (to any of our parish priests, my pastor especially because he is American), it would not be a very welcome gesture. Which is unfortunate as I think it is a wonderful custom.

  54. diane says:

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    If you see this, please contact me at diane_kamer@yahoo.com. Or drop by my blog at http://www.dianonymous,blogspot.com. Or visit the blogs of my friends: contrapauli.blogspot.com and theblackcordelias.wordpress.com. (See especially: blackcordelias.wordpress.com/2009/01/10/trampling-on-the-grave-of-a-man-before-it-has-even-been-dug/#comments)

    Also see the discussions re Dreher’s diss of Fr. Neuhaus at contrapauli.blogspot.com. Your ears must be burning–we have been taking your name in vain (admiringly, natch!).

    Thanks! Hope you see this, o witty one!

    The Notorious and Infamous Diane