Joseph Sobran: RIP

24 Responses to Joseph Sobran: RIP

1. Bornacatholic says:

   1 October 2010 at 10:11 am

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlr90NLDp-0

   I loved Mr. Sobran. He was so humble courageous and intelligent. And he bore the double-crossing Cross of Buckley with dignity, restraint, and good cheer.

   What a great man.
2. wolfeken says:

   1 October 2010 at 10:49 am

   Very sad indeed. I fondly remember brunch with him after the traditional Latin Mass in Washington, D.C. His columns ran until the very end in Catholic Family News. His 21 years at National Review marked some of the best of times for that publication before it went from paleo-con to neo-con. RIP indeed, Mr. Sobran.
3. Geoffrey says:

   1 October 2010 at 10:58 am

   The only thing I liked in Catholic Family News was Mr. Sobran’s column. Requiem aeternam…
4. Dubya Ay-See says:

   1 October 2010 at 12:08 pm

   I suppose I should be sad, but Joe Sobran was a committed anarchist and rectitudinalist of the first order. He did a great deal to draw the so-called Paleos down the road to political irrelevance. I’ll pray for his eternal rest, I’m not that sorry to see him go.
5. r.j.sciurus says:

   1 October 2010 at 12:16 pm

   R.I.P.
6. TomG says:

   1 October 2010 at 12:43 pm

   A tremendously gifted writer. But his jew-baiting and Holocaust-denial – what is it with these people? A great man? I don’t think so.
7. robtbrown says:

   1 October 2010 at 1:18 pm

   TomG,

   I don’t considered him a “tremendously gifted writer”.

   On the other hand, when did he deny the Holocaust? And is questioning Zionist influence on US policy Jew baiting?
8. robtbrown says:

   1 October 2010 at 1:23 pm

   Dubya Ay-See,

   Not a huge Sobran fan, but I never heard him called an anarchist.

   Have you noticed that the neo-cons have all but taken conservatism into oblivion? Are have you forgotten the neo-cons at Defense who were certain that the Iraq war would be a six month adventure without casualties.
9. Jordanes says:

   1 October 2010 at 1:33 pm

   Sobran’s political views had evolved from conservatism to palaeoconservativism to a Rothbardian “paleolibertarian anarcho-capitalism,” which I suppose might be called a form of “anarchism.” I doubt the irrelevancy of palaeoconservatism can be attributed to Sobran. His flirting at the borders of anti-Semitism, and his participation from 2001 to 2003 in Holocaust-denial conferences, certainly were not to his credit, though. All the same, may he rest in peace.
10. TomG says:

    1 October 2010 at 1:43 pm

    robtbrown:
    >I don’t considered [sic] him a “tremendously gifted writer”.

    Who cares what you “consider”? That was MY statement.

    He aided, abetted and gave comfort to Holocaust-deniers. Forgive my imprecision.

    Am I the only sick to death of this “neo-con” nonsense?
11. DHippolito says:

    1 October 2010 at 2:43 pm

    robtbrown, let me ask you something: Would you like Saddam Hussein back?
12. robtbrown says:

    1 October 2010 at 2:57 pm

    robtbrown:
    >I don’t considered [sic] him a “tremendously gifted writer”.

    Who cares what you “consider”? That was MY statement.

    If you consider him a ‘tremendously gift writer”, what do you reserve for someone like Malcolm Muggeridge and his effortless prose? Or Thomas Wolfe (as in Look Homeward, Angel)? Or Buckley? Or Fitzgerald? Or the monuments of British lit?

    He aided, abetted and gave comfort to Holocaust-deniers.

    How so?

    Am I the only sick to death of this “neo-con” nonsense?

    Are you sick of the neo-cons or what people say about them?
13. robtbrown says:

    1 October 2010 at 3:07 pm

    DHippolito says:

    robtbrown, let me ask you something: Would you like Saddam Hussein back?

    He was a bad guy, but he was in a box.

    I’ll answer your question with one of my own: Do you think the blood and treasure poured out in the Middle East was worth it?

    And the Iraq War wasn’t about WMD’s or Saddam. It was about trying to establish a Pax Americana in the ME via Iraq, which is the ME geo-political fulcrum.
14. chcrix says:

    1 October 2010 at 3:33 pm

    Robt Brown:
    I strongly agree with your comments.

    And yes, I also would take Saddam back – in exchange for the lives, treasure, and civil liberties that have been offered up in vain pursuit of the twenty-first century’s version of Wilsonian hubris.

    May Mr. Sobran R.I.P.

    I defy anyone to scan Mr. Sobran’s writings and produce anything of anti-semitic nature. However, a quick perusal of George Washington’s farewell address will provide insight into the source of these base and baseless charges.

    I’m tired of the neo-cons and their betryal of conservatism as well. It is time for them to get their heads on straight, or return to the authoritian left – where they came from and where they yearn to be.
15. Ed the Roman says:

    1 October 2010 at 3:48 pm

    “He was a bad guy, but he was in a box. ”

    Dude, he was getting out of the box. He’d have been out for a couple of years already by now.
16. Geoffrey says:

    1 October 2010 at 5:37 pm

    The Holy See said the U.S. invasion of Iraq did not meet the Just War Doctrine. ’nuff said.
17. robtbrown says:

    1 October 2010 at 6:10 pm

    Ed the Roman says:
    “He was a bad guy, but he was in a box. ”

    Dude, he was getting out of the box. He’d have been out for a couple of years already by now.

    Two experts on the situation, Gen Anthony Zinni and Dr Michael Scheuer, would disagree with your assessment.
18. Mike says:

    1 October 2010 at 6:46 pm

    I am sad to hear that he has died. And I will pray for him tomorrow at Mass, and for a very long time. In the 90s, I emailed with Mr. Sobran on the Shakespeare Authorship Issue. We traded some late-night, now and then barbed emails, but usually ended on a civil note. I actually emailed his publisher several months ago to get his phone number to call him and give my best wishes. Sadly, I never got around to it.

    In regard to his political views, I found them largely unattractive because I could not see how his deep-rooted disdain for the state could square with the principles we have been given by Divine Revelation. I also was disturbed to see him defend a speech he gave to a Holocaust-denial group. I think, unfortunately, Joe Sobran got caught up in obssessions–Shakespeare-denier, Holocaust-denier, anti-government positions dangerously close to anarchy–that do no one any good.

    That being said, he wrote some damn fine essays defending human life from conception to natural death. For that alone, we owe him thanks. And our prayers for a complete and quick passage into the arms of Our merciful Lord.
19. robtbrown says:

    1 October 2010 at 8:40 pm

    Geoffrey says:

    The Holy See said the U.S. invasion of Iraq did not meet the Just War Doctrine. ’nuff said.

    Cardinal Ratzinger also said that almost no modern war meets the Just War Doctrine.
20. Tina in Ashburn says:

    1 October 2010 at 8:56 pm

    Eternal rest grant unto Joe, O Lord. May perpetual light shine upon him. May he rest in peace. Amen

    Wake: Monday, Oct. 4, at Money & King (171 Maple Avenue West, Vienna, VA.)
    Tridentine requiem funeral Mass: Tuesday, Oct. 5, at St. John the Beloved Catholic Church in McLean, VA at 1 p.m., celebrated by Fr. Paul Scalia.
    The Mass will be preceded by a wake in the church
21. robtbrown says:

    2 October 2010 at 8:06 am

    If I might clarify:

    I was not opposed to the Iraq invasion, but I was skeptical of its do-ability. A few days before it started, I was talking with a good friend who’s a ret LTG (formerly Dep Com of All US Forces in Europe). His wife said that she was against it. I said that I’m against it if it doesn’t work. He quickly agreed. Anyone who has looked at any of the numerous books that document the problems know that it was a fouled up operation from the beginning, mostly because it was never determined whether an occupation was inevitable.

    My objection was not to th war but to the chickenhawks (most of whom were neo-cons, some in DoD) who thought it would be a walk in the park and, if there were problems, had no objection to others shedding their blood.
22. Ed the Roman says:

    2 October 2010 at 10:46 am

    I was working in GEN Zinni’s headquarters (and subsequently in GEN Franks), and by spring 2001 Saddam was starting to get out of the box.
23. Mike says:

    2 October 2010 at 11:02 am

    Thanks for posting that, Tina.

    Wow, what beautiful Mass that will be! I am not a member of St. John’s, but have been to their TLM several times. Fr. Paul is an excellent preacher; the liturgy is superb.
24. CF Mathews says:

    2 October 2010 at 10:51 pm

    I think Sobran was probably right about everything except his belief in the official conspiracy theory of 9/11. He truly lived by the words of his beloved Shakespeare, “To thine own self be true…” If only the words “anti-Catholic” held the same brand of social ostracization as the words “anti-Semitic.” One can always dream…