What’s red, flutters a little, and is carried in an entrance procession?
Yes, the elevated image of your patronal red fish god.
Someone sent me a link to a video of the entrance procession for the Mass at the Basilica Shrine in Washington, DC.
Just for a fun contrast.
This is also a great opportunity to repost the video of the wonderful sermon Bp. Slattery (D. Tulsa) gave for that memorable event, the Pontifical Mass at the Throne to celebrate the anniversary of Benedict XVI’s election.
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UPDATE:
I see that Jeffrey Tucker of NLM also wrote about this. HERE
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Deo gratias.
modernist rubbish and buffoonery–why so many lay people in the procession as well? Maybe they are lay-impersonating religious?; purges cito Domine ecclesiam tuam.
I’m not even sure what to say about the fish, but what else bothers me is the posture of the laity in the procession at the end of the video with their arms loosely at their sides instead of in a praying posture. My first impression was that they looked, well, defeated, or something. They certainly don’t seem to want to be there. I can’t quite put my finger on it.
Worse-it is a Buddhist symbol, as well as a Japanese and Chinese symbol of the red carp, which represents perseverance. The fish supposedly turns into a dragon in some stories from the East and the flag is popular in the East. So, false ecumenism? Confusion as to symbolism? Forgetfulness of our own symbolic past in the rich heritage of the Church?
Sometimes, I wish I could just go over to the SSPX.
Since this was allowed to happen at a Mass in DC, can we assume Cardinal Wuerl approves of this ridiculousness?
Sometimes, I wonder if even those at the highest echelons of the Church have, in some ways, lost the faith.
Okay, I’m usually pretty laid back but apart from it being totally distracting from the Crucifix, which is always where my eyes go during a processional, I have to ask — was there a point? I mean, any point whatever???
I was waiting for the giant-headed marionettes and diaphonously-gowned teenaged girls carrying smoke pots myself.
Does anyone besides me think this is all kind of banal?
My daughter was there at the convention (National Association of Pastoral Musicians) this week. I’ll have to ask her if she went to that
MassEucharist. She’s currently at Reagan waiting for the first flight in her 2,600 mile journey homeWhat’s red, flutters a little, and is carried in an entrance procession?
Yes, the elevated image of your patronal red fish god.
Someone sent me a link …
That take on it makes me wonder if you’ve been reading Douglas Adams recently.
More seriously, since the procession is in fact led by a cross-bearer (looks pretty clear that it’s an actual crucifix), and the red thing is back there amongst the banners, I think it’s pretty safe to treat it as… a banner (!) and little fear of confusing it with our actual Savior.
My guess would be either “icthus” or “paraclete”. A friend just came back from NPM and left me a copy of the program. If I have time later, I’ll thumb through it and see if they mention it.
In the meantime, did your correspondent also send video of the beautiful psalm during Mass, or of Monsignor East chanting the Gospel?
Charivari Rob no, it is Buddhist and older than the ichthys and this is called syncretism and is sinful. I am reminded of Ven. Fulton J. Sheen’s classic definition-What does one call an ignorant Catholic? A Protestant, or in this case, an adherer to an Easter religion.
There is no excuse for such ignorance.
oops Eastern sorry, but I am experiencing horror that this happened in the National Cathedral. I am so ashamed and angered by such.
Can you imagine a crucifix here? http://factsanddetails.com/media/2/20091012-visualizingculturemit19thcenturyCaptainFrankBrinkleygj20211_PaperCarp.jpg
I also have to wonder what was the point of the fish?
Is it a Mass for the opening of Red Snook season? Is it for commercial fisherman like a Red Mass for the legal profession?
What ever it is for it looks silly and should be done by children on the playground at the parochial school not in a procession at Mass.
What…. the…… Why?
I cant imagine the thought process involved here.. did someone suggest a big red fish is just what the congregation needs? Nothing focuses the mind on our Lord like a big red fish.
That’s Pope Benedict’s goldfish, the one from his fishpond at Castel Gandolfo … the one from the book!
Flying fish, for the birds!
Fish fry! Fish fry! Fish fry!
Just to let you know that — whatever this red fish is — they’re not a total bunch of wackos at the NPM. From the opening web page about their recently concluded convention (I added the bold near the end):
I’m surprised that no one had drawn the obvious parallel between the Cappa Magna and the red flying fishie thing… both of them are red, flowing, unusual to see in an entrance procession. Of course, the red flying fishie thing is probably much less expensive, obviously would not have to be worn by a Cardinal, so it could be carried by anyone, it’s fun, festive, joyful, lighthearted good fun to have at a Eucharistic celebration! And don’t they mention fish in the scriptures? A few times? Expect to see more fish at the next Eucharistic celebration!
@supertradmum- Sometimes I also wish I could go over to the SSPX as well. It’s tiring to red fish, giant puppets, and other kinds of new age junk in our Masses.
“What’s red, flutters a little, and is carried in an entrance procession?”
My answer: As seen in video number 2, A Cardinal in a cappa magna.
Charivari Rob … Well clearly it’s an icthus. Any ancient Greek child would be able to point that out when staring into the Aegean, but what’s it for? It clearly doesn’t symbolise a fish because it is a fish. And a paraclete? When did a bloomin’ great goldfish come to represent the Advocate, the Holy Spirit? Believe me, I am quite at home in most liturgies and am all for using symbolism — when it actually symbolises something without everyone having to comb the internet looking for explanations. So, I for one would be extremely grateful if you did find that program to see if it says anything. To me, it looks like something my grandkids won at a fairground.
Unfortunately my grandchildren, who are really children at this point, would think flying red fish at Mass were fun, and probably would want to bring their whirlygigs and streamers the next time. Yeah, sometimes I wish I could just go over to the SSPX also. We used to have the FSSP, but disapproving people with money managed to see them gone. Long story.
Okay, maybe I’m over-analyzing this, but the red-fish-in-the-liturgy-where-it-probably-shouldn’t-be is creeping me out:
http://www.searchbodyart.com/the-meanings-and-traditions-of-koi-fish-tattoos-in-modern-body-art/
A short excerpt.
“Red Koi: Tattoos with koi fish that are red in color generally stand for some sort of love, but one of a strong, masculine nature. Red is a very energetic color, so it is no surprise that the red koi fish tattoo is the strongest of the new, contemporary, different colored koi fish tattoos.”
Here’s the program brochure for the NPM Convention:
http://www.npm.org/EducationEvents/convention/ConventionBrochure.pdf
As for me, my preference would be Bishop Slattery’s Mass and the recent CMAA convention in Utah with Archbishop Sample as keynote speaker .
What’s white, flutters a little, and is carried in an entrance procession?
Answer: Flabellum–Obsolete (1963?)
Over at the New Liturgical Movement’s website, its Jeffrey Tucker, who is associated with Church Music Association of America (CMAA) , has an insightful essay on this NPM incident of the red fish flag. I was in agreement with his concluding paragraphs:
“What is profoundly disturbing is the utter disregard for the Catholic liturgy here. Catholics have long suffered under such antics and we have suffered so long that there are no more tears left. All we can really do is roll our eyes and laugh. It’s our way of dealing with things that are beyond our control or comprehension.
And, in the end, you might consider the demographic point. The video is (sic) in this post. Watch it and see how many young people are in attendance. That tells you where this ethos is headed.
. . . It is a only a matter of putting down our poles and puppets and falling in love again with the much more profound meaning embedded in the authentic ritual itself. “
http://www.newliturgicalmovement.org/2013/08/the-liturgical-role-of-flying-fish.html#.Uf0_742sim4
I have to be honest that I am a bit uncomfortable watching either.
The fish I just don’t get, I don’t see what it has to do with the Faith or music. And I dont get why people wont reclaim the valid symbols that we had as a Faith, rather than leave everyone shaking their heads in confusion over something seemingly random.
On the other hand, the robes look uncomfortable to me, and I am one who very much layers in cold weather. May I suggest that these garments made more sense when hundreds of people were trying to see and identify someone in a dimly lit gothic cathedral than with today’s lighting?
The brochure doesn’t look too bad. It has chant and organ music (and guitar, I know) and the keynote speaker claims to speak on music and interior participation which I think is properly stressed here. If they start getting that right, maybe the proper (more traditional, more beautiful, more theologically sound) music for accomplishing that will become more obvious again.
supertradmum – the first thing I thought was “it’s too late for Chinese New Year” and “where’s the dragon/”
I don’t know if I would ascribe to the red fish the meanings of Eastern religions. I think it was just another example of “fun” liturgy.
I’m glad I wasn’t there. Once I start laughing at something at Mass, I can’t stop.
Hey, come on! Can’t you figure it out? It’s Shark Week!
My question is this:
Can anyone give a serious estimate of the cost of the fish-totem, and the other banners?
Because, according to under-appreciated commentariat/magisterium from below at the N”C”R, cappae magnae and other accoutrements of Holy Mass are ridiculously expensive and cause poverty in Haiti.
But I’ve never seen any concern about the cost of fish-god-totems and banners and giant puppets.
Re: Supertradmum says: “…but I am experiencing horror that this happened in the National Cathedral. I am so ashamed and angered by such.”
It is not the cathedral, just a very very very large church (the largest Catholic church in the western hemisphere I believe?) which was named a Minor Basilica. It is actually much more well known than DC’s St. Matthew’s Cathedral.
perhaps one of the liturgists behind this is something of a…. “trout man”
Why so much admiration for a society which has disobeyed the pope and is leading people astray through certain invalid sacraments, etc… and leading people to believe it is ok to be disobedient? What angers Our Lord more than religious who disobey their superiors? (the Pope being every religious’ superior) Not much. (Read Vianney)
I am referring, of course, to the SSPX.
NBW said:
Sometimes I also wish I could go over to the SSPX as well. It’s tiring to red fish, giant puppets, and other kinds of new age junk in our Masses.
If something is causing damage to your faith, it’s best to first, not actively seek it out, second, ignore it if you can and focus on what you’re there for, and third, if you absolutely cannot avoid or ignore liturgical abuses and must endure them, pray for the sanctificaton of those causing them, but do so in a humble way, not like the Pharisee.
Fr. Martin Fox raises an excellent point. The Baroque vestments that cause such outrage in some quarters cost nothing; they have simply been brought out of storage. The flying fish puppets, in addition to provoking laughter, actually do cost money.
Disturbing. I have been to many Masses there (I lived about a mile from there for a while) and I can honestly say that I never saw anything like that. I hope that things haven’t gone downhill in recent years, their liturgical director when I lived in DC was a wonderful priest from Arlington and the Masses (esp. the noon Solemn Mass) were beautiful. Of course, when I was there they never had an EF Mass so perhaps things have simply gotten “broader” rather than moving only in a liberal direction.
Some, and I do mean some of the people that attend the NPM conventions are not kooks but they are very few and far between. And, 99.9% of the leaders of the NPM are for sure liturgical kooks. At the 2011 convention in Louisville, they gave away their highest award to the St. Louis SJ’s, and Ricky Manalo is a frequent writer for their magazine. (The one and only article of his that I forced myself to read just prior to the 2011 convention talked about how he and other composers took liberties and artistic license when creating their mass settings and other compositions based on the mass texts, and how they were glad that they did it. He also lamented about the new translation, of course, being the liturgical kook that he is.) Sure, they host breakout sessions on chant and Latin, but it is only because more and more parishes are using these (much to the chagrin of the NPM leadership). I have it from a reliable source, that went to the convention in 2011, that it was a nonstop complaint session for the revised translation that was soon to be implemented.
A big haha to Tim Ferguson on the “trout man”!
I did wonder where the dancing ladies were hiding though , surely the stage was set for them!
These things seem to be okay but offering the extraordinary form of the mass by the Franciscans of Immaculate is not. Go figure?
Are you sure it wasn’t the Flying Spaghetti Monster (pbuh – Parmesan be upon him).
@kjh fun, festive, joyful, lighthearted good fun to have at a Eucharistic celebration
That doesn’t seem right for a celebration of the Sacrifice of the Mass. The Eucharist reminds us that Jesus died by torture to save us because of our sins. “Lighthearted” and “fun” seems out of place there. There are other times and places for lighthearted good fun in relation to Catholic customs, but at the Sacrifice of the Mass?
I would be very interested in the intended purpose and symbology of the red fish, if anyone could find out about it and post it. The most obvious symbology, other than “none”, is non-Christian, though.
The cappa magna looks a little strange to me, too, but not in the same way. I suppose I’m supposed to think of a king’s or a prince’s train, but I must admit, the first thing I thought of was the train of a wedding gown, despite what would be the wrong color.
Well…we have just walked in the door from Mass…we had a Bob Marley song as our communion hymn. Did I mention the communion hymn was by Bob Marley…Bob Marley. Didn’t have a giant goldfish, so I guess it could have been worse.
Who can take this seriously as worship of God?
And what comes of this sort of irreverence?
Well, for one thing, 55% of American Catholics think
that there should be no restrictions on abortion. [LSN]
servulus indignus Christi recte orat purges… grata restaures…
It reminds me quite a bit of a koi nobori (?? = “carp streamer”). Traditional for May 5th, “Children’s Day” in Japan.
I guess here it represents the flames of the Holy Spirit — was this a Votive Mass of the Holy Spirit?
Thats nuts. “Be careful to preserve your faith, because in the future the Church in the USA will be separated from Rome.”–St. Leopold Mandic
They are obviously saving the angels on rollerblades idea for next year.
Good ‘ole NPM. I see the fingerprints of one Rev. Anthony Ruff, OSB all over this one.
Lura V! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
Obviously people really really miss the Rogation Days snapdragon processional banner.
Which was used in processions outside church, not inside church.
A picture of a small Rogation dragon banner, from Daniel Mitsui’s blog that looks a lot like the carp kite banner. See, I’m not crazy. They really do have a vast inchoate longing for Rogation Days.
Child at Mass; “Dad ,whats with the fish?’ Dad;Recalls all the Gospel references to fish . Child;says”then we should have lots of fish! And nets! And buckets! And people to throw out what is bad! (Mat. 13 47-53)
Although I think the guys in the picture are a penitential society, not your normal parish folks just marching around. So it’s not a great illustration in that respect.
Rogation dragons and snapdragons were usually pretty big banners, because they started as Roman cavalry banners with the normal Roman/Sarmatian dragon on them, and only got bigger and more dragonish from there. Sometimes they were pretty much small floats with biting and clawing or fireworks mechanisms, hence “snapdragon.” Originally they probably just meant that the local cavalry unit was riding along, but in an oddly libertarian twist of history, they eventually came to symbolize Satan lurking around the parish/world and then being subdued by Christ. So when the parish priest walked the boundaries of his parish with a Eucharistic procession, praying for everyone and for all the crops, the dragon went along. Some parishes saved their dragon banner/float for next year, while others would symbolically destroy it outside church every year at the end of the Rogation Days (another time when you might use some fire or fireworks or other fun methods — I kinda wonder whether pinatas were inspired by this kind of permissible destruction).
Of course, people also carried other symbolic banners, saints’ relics, etc. in Rogation processions.
Suburbanbanshee, thank you for the fascinating info. I tried Google Images and found many wonderful nostalgic pictures of Rogation processions. [Oddly, it appears, lots of Anglican priestesses are into Rogation processions. Dea ceres?] And there is one illustration of the larger “float” idea you mentioned. (The surrounding text in French on “Le Chemin du Dragon” adds a little to your account.)
http://fragmentsdegeographiesacree.hautetfort.com/archive/2009/03/31/le-chemin-du-dragon.html
It looked like a Portuguese Man of War.
When I visited the National Basilica I remained in the basement where it was safe.
This Buddhist Taoist etc fish calls to mind prophecies of the people’s church.
“full and active participation by all the people is the aim to be considered before all else” (Sacrosanctum Concilium, 14).”
That quote seems to indicate the intentional formation of the people’s church(?).
It also appears to me heretical to put the people before God.
The flying fish scares me.
Living so close to D.C. myself, I am saddened I missed this event. I would have brought Fr. Gould along with me and we could have gone fly fishing and perhaps caught a big red herring! What ridiculousness! I can’t believe this garbage was allowed to take place in the Basilica!
“Disturbing. I have been to many Masses there (I lived about a mile from there for a while) and I can honestly say that I never saw anything like that.”
This is not a Mass that was organized by the Shrine. It is presumably taking place with their permission (although I don’t know how much of the planned program they review/have access to), but it is not staffed by, for example, Shrine musicians. (The cantor is not wearing a Shrine choir robe, for example.) Stuff happens in the Shrine all the time which is not organized by them. There is at least one Mass a week that is not a Shrine Mass but is celebrated there.
SophieMiriam:
That’s true, I didn’t think of that. The shrine Masses were beautiful when I was there, I hope it’s still that way.
Whether it be red fluttering flags or red Cappa Magna I believe that neither have a place in Church,especially at Holy Mass both look affected and ridiculous.Beautifull dignified Mass Vestments yes but not long trains or flags,laughable.
I recently finished Fr. Robert Hugh Benson’s Come Rack! Come Rope! after reading numerous recommendations on these pages (and having thoroughly enjoyed his Lord of the World). It is
difficult almost impossiblebeyond the bounds of conceivability that our forbears in the Faith who suffered so much during the persecutions in England would have put themselves in that position to save something like what was witnessed in the first video. I can see it now: Her Majesty’s commission accusing a recusant family of hiding a priest or two “ordained beyond the seas”: “There’s no use in denying it! We found them in that cubby, along with all the essential things for your Popish ‘Mass’! Vestments, altar cloths, and…and most damning of all…that Giant Tetra on a Pole! To the Tower!”It is to laugh, else we would surely go mad with grief at times…
I was stationed in Washington, DC for several years, beginning in 2001, and my wife and I looked forward to those opportunities when we could assist at Mass at the Basilica. The Shrine is a beautiful Marian church, and there always seemed to be an effort made to inject a bit of grandeur (the right kind) into the Masses celebrated there.
This nonsense, however, flies in the face of all that. It’s been well over a decade since I last visited the Shrine, and God only knows what might be going on there these days.
I’ve waited for quite a while to comment on this blog, and I think I may come across as a wrong-headed curmudgeon, but be that as it may… I firmly believe one’s faith, particularly one’s faith in the Real Presence, trumps all other considerations in regards to assisting at Mass.
What do I mean?
My family and I recently ‘escaped’ my former beloved hometown of Chicago and relocated to St. Pete Beach, FL. We were parishioners for decades at the glorious St. John Cantius parish in Chicago, and we arrived here to find ourselves in a spiritual wasteland.
The local St. Petersburg Cathedral of St. Jude does indeed offer the TLM, but it’s relegated to a chapel and the parish treats the TLM crowd as pariahs (I’ve witnessed this phenomenon elsewhere (Chicago, Omaha, Las Vegas) many times in the past). There is a palpable reverence for the Real Presence at the TLM Masses here in St. Petersburg; the Novus Ordo Masses, on the other hand, may be among the most egregious I’ve ever seen, and that’s really saying something, folks…
Case in point: If we can’t make it to the TLM, we try to assist at the Byzantine Liturgy at our daughter’s school. If we can’t make either of them, we’ve found ourselves compelled to assist at the Sunday evening Mass at St. Raphael’s parish in Snell Isle. This parish church, although modern and constructed in that maddening ‘in-the-round’ style, is replete with statues, mosaics and holy art. A few licks of paint here and there and the removal of the holy water ‘trough’ would go a long way to improving things. But in classically warped ‘spirit of VII’ style, the Tabernacle is set off to the side in its own glass-enclosed chapel. Being Florida, many of the parishioners are attired in clothing more suitable for the beach than attendance at Mass, and there is absolutely no silence whatsoever from beginning of Mass until the end. Indeed, at the conclusion of Mass, scores of parishioners stand about in the church boisterously socializing; a group of about fifteen were yucking it up in front of the Tabernacle chapel, in full view of the three or so parishioners praying inside. There is no way anyone could be mistaken that the Tabernacle is right there – it’s in a glass room, for goodness sake – yet there is absolutely no sense of the sacred in this church. It was all I could do not to grab one of these fifty-something morons by the throat and bash his head open on the pew. STOP THE SACRILEGE – YOU’RE DEFINITELY OLD ENOUGH TO KNOW BETTER!!
In a parish school teeming with kids, the majority of the acolytes are girls in flip-flops…
At least a dozen women present themselves as EMHC at each and every Mass… Why everyone feels he needs to receive Holy Communion all the time is something I simply cannot fathom. I know that they couldn’t possibly be going to confession with such regularity to warrant this.
The ‘music’ is appalling – much worse than the ‘St. Louis Jesuits’ turgid songbook of my youth – and the volume and exuberance is not to be believed…
The priests encourage recognizing individuals at the end of Mass, in which the congregation is entreated to applaud… The sacred space has become a tawdry assembly hall.
My point is this: if your faith is somehow manhandled, incapacitated or otherwise scandalized by what goes on in your parish, and it’s obvious to you that you cannot influence your parish priest or bishop for the better, then simply stop assisting. If you have no approved alternative (FSSP or Eastern Catholic liturgy), go to SSPX. Life is too short to suffer this crap any longer, and I don’t believe – again in good conscience – that you are doing yourself any favors by enduring these outrages. It’s not edifying to your soul – not when it’s a regular component of your week – and it’s completely unnecessary.
I say all of the above with conviction if not sadness at our shepherds’ inability to control their dioceses. I will not have my children scandalized, brainwashed or otherwise turned against the Faith by my negligence. When I die, should St. Peter or God ask me why I counseled others to fly to the protection of SSPX in lieu of a blasphemous ‘Mass’ that was licit, I will answer in good conscience that I would gladly endure near-eternal purgation or the fires of hell rather than see God mocked.
I fully expect to incur the wrath of many here, including good Fr. Z., but this is what I’ve come to believe. I attended Catholic schools all my life – to include three years in the Chicago minor seminary – and I didn’t attend the TLM until I was about twenty years old. I’m thoroughly versed in the abuses that have gone on and the heterodoxy that’s been taught. I’m through with it all, and time’s running out… If I can’t attend the ‘approved’ TLM – which by nature has no capacity for innovation or abuse – I search for the Byzantines. If I can’t have either, then I’ll gladly go to the SSPX.
My prayerful best wishes for all of the fine readers of this most excellent blog.
I should also point out that there are good, reverent Novus Ordo Masses obtaining in the Archdiocese of Chicago, not as many as I’d like, but you can find them and they’re wonderful. We used to assist at such Masses when we couldn’t attend St. John Cantius, and I was very pleased.
I have to chuckle as I write this, knowing that I must come across as some sort of unhinged reactionary, but nothing could be further from the truth. At the ripe old age of 46, and having endured two pointless wars, a lot of death and far too many sacrileges, I don’t think you can spin this situation any other way: you have to protect your faith and the faith of your family against all comers. This is your first, last and only obligation. It’s obvious to me that the Roman Catholic Church has been thoroughly infected with Modernism and that most parishes today in the United States have been completely Protestantized.
The Diocese of St. Petersburg is mired in the worst of 1970’s-vintage nonsense. It’d be comical if it weren’t so tragic and pointless…
Pax Christi, everybody!
Not surprised at the liturgical nonsense given that this was a Mass for NPM, whose president is openly gay and “married” to his same-sex partner.