Archd. of Indianapolis newspaper on older Mass

In the newspaper of the Archdiocese of Indianapolis, The Criterion, there is a good article on the older form of Mass.

My emphases and comments.


English? Latin? Parish builds unity out of liturgical diversity

By Sean Gallagher

On July 7, Pope Benedict XVI issued a motu proprio that allowed for wider celebration of what was termed the Mass of Blessed John XXIII, also known as the Tridentine or traditional Latin Mass.  [Good!  Some distinctions.  Qui distinguit, bene docet.]

The allowance was made, in principle, for all priests around the world, including those in the Archdiocese of Indianapolis.

However, archdiocesan director of liturgy Father Patrick Beidelman doesn’t expect any changes to occur  [The Party Line] at most parishes in central and southern Indiana when the terms of the pope’s apostolic letter take effect on Sept. 14.

“For the majority of people in our parishes, the focus is probably going to be the same as it was before—on the practical concerns of the daily life in parishes and with working to make the liturgical life of the communities as vibrant and as effective as they can be,” said Father Beidelman, who also serves as rector of SS. Peter and Paul Cathedral in Indianapolis.  [I don’t get it.  Is this a round about way of saying that people who want the older form of Mass don’t have a life?]

In a personal letter introducing the motu proprio, the pope described the Mass as it is currently celebrated in nearly all parishes as the “ordinary form” of the Mass, while the traditional Latin Mass was called the “extraordinary form.”

“It is not appropriate to speak of these two versions of the Roman Missal as if they were “two rites,” the pope wrote. “Rather, it is a matter of a twofold use of one and the same rite.”

He also expressed his expectation that the current ordinary form of the Mass would be the one that would be celebrated most often in parishes around the world.

Archdiocesan vicar general Msgr. Joseph F. Schaedel thinks that this will be the case in the archdiocese because the traditional Latin Mass has been available for those who prefer it for several years.  [the other part of The Party Line]

It has been celebrated on a daily basis at Our Lady of the Most Holy Rosary Church in ­Indianapolis for nine years. And for the past two years, it has been celebrated daily at SS. Cecilia and Philomena Church in Oak Forest in the Batesville Deanery.  [Two places.  That’s pretty good!]

“For the most part, people that are really attached to the old Latin Mass have fairly convenient opportunities to [attend them],” said Msgr. Schaedel, who is also pastor of Our Lady of the Most Holy Rosary Parish. “Even Catholics in southern Indiana can attend such a Mass in Louisville. So I don’t think there’s going to be a great resurgence of returning to the old Latin Mass.”

The possibility remains open, however, that sometime after Sept. 14, a parish in the archdiocese might offer Masses in both the ordinary and extraordinary forms.

If that happens, then Holy Rosary Parish might become a model for how two groups of the faithful[This is an interesting approach.  Among the articles I have seen, I don’t remember reading something quite like this.] one that prefers the Mass in English and the other attached to the traditional Latin Mass—can grow together in faith as a unified parish community.  [Reminds me of the Rules of Engagement.]

Father Dennis Duvelius was the associate pastor at Holy Rosary Parish for nine years as a member of the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter, a religious order that focuses on celebrating the traditional Latin Mass. He has since become a priest of the archdiocese [interesting] and is finishing up his first year as administrator of St. Louis Parish in Batesville.

Father Duvelius acknowledged that integrating the extraordinary form of the Mass into the life of Holy Rosary Parish was challenging initially.

“To be honest, it was rough at first, as each group adjusted to the other’s ways of thinking and doing things, but now there are no sides,” he said. “Holy Rosary is one parish family with two forms of the liturgy.”

Msgr. Schaedel has been pastor of Holy Rosary for the entire time that it has offered both forms of the Mass.

He said it took about three years for a good level of trust to be developed between those attached to the Mass in English and those who prefer the Latin Mass.

Msgr. Schaedel noted, however, that tensions weren’t related solely to liturgical questions. He said that longtime members of Holy Rosary were concerned that the parish, as they had known it, would be “phased out” when the traditional Latin Mass was introduced there.

Msgr. Schaedel now sees the dual liturgical life as a force of vitality for the parish.

“It’s certainly enhanced the attendance, the activity around the parish, the number of young people, young families,” he said. “It’s probably more than tripled the income of the parish.”  [Excellent]

According to Msgr. Schaedel, the attendance at the three Sunday Masses celebrated each weekend (two in English, one in Latin) is about equal.

Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter Father Michael Magiera celebrates the Tridentine Mass at Holy Rosary Church. Yet he emphasized that he is the associate pastor for the entire parish.

“I take that very seriously,” he said. “I always make it a point of going out to greet those parishioners after the 4:30 p.m. [Saturday] English Mass and the noon Sunday English Mass.”

He said both he and Msgr. Schaedel help each other by distributing Communion at both the English and Latin Masses. Both will occasionally preach at all the weekend Masses, and Father Magiera occasionally plays the organ at English Masses.

“When you have such a good cooperation on the part of the clergy, the [parishioners] generally go along with that very well, and they don’t find it funny or anything,” Father Magiera said. “I think that they like it.”

Josephine Lombardo, 77, has been a member of the parish her entire life. She still lives within sight of the church.

On July 14, she attended the Saturday evening Mass in English. Afterward, she said she occasionally attends a weekday Tridentine Mass.

Lombardo said she likes the young families that the Mass in Latin has attracted to the parish.

“We have more people coming to Mass every day,” she said. “That’s wonderful. It seems like old times again seeing all these little ones.”  [Does it get better than that?   Why, I wonder, does the newer form of Mass not create quite the same synergy of younger families in a place?   I know there are large suburban parishes in the USA where there are lots of younger families.  However, one thing I have noticed is the different trends of behavior of the children.  This is an interesting question.]

Father Magiera noted that parishioners intermingle in other ways.

“People here like each other,” he said. “English Mass people, Latin Mass people, they serve on the same committees. They belong to the same devotional groups. You’ll have English Mass people working side by side with Latin Mass people at [the Italian Street Festival].”

It could be that the unity that has come out of the liturgical diversity at Holy Rosary Parish is based on the principle that neither the ordinary or extraordinary form of the Mass is superior to the other.

“People, in this day and age, if you have two different things, they always want to get to the point where they can say which one is better,” Msgr. Schaedel said. “Is the English better than the Latin or vice versa?

“Neither one is better. Both of them are allowed and encouraged by the Church.” †


 What a wonderful article!

Remember the Rules of Engagement?

4) Be engaged in the whole life of your parishes, especially in works of mercy organized by the same.  If you want the whole Church to benefit from the use of the older liturgy, then you who are shaped by the older form of Mass should be of benefit to the whole Church in concrete terms.


About Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

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  1. genxsurvivor says:

    This is a great stereotype breaker: the extraordinary form at a parish causes more babies at Mass, and that fact is gleefully reported by a 77-year-old parishioner fresh out of the Saturday evening ordinary form.

  2. Raymundus says:

    I have been visiting Holy Rosary in Indy since I was a senior in high school (now in third theology), and it is a wonderful parish. I’ve also visited the school they have there, called the Lumen Christi Institute. It’s basically a bunch of homeschooling families that get together in the old Holy Rosary School building. Every day, those little dinkers (1st-8th grade) go to the daily “Tridentine” Mass. Liturgically, they have been very well-catechized, as their ability to respond and pray in Latin puts mine to shame!

    Kudos to Msgr. Schaedel and Holy Rosary Parish.

  3. fr.franklyn mcafee says:

    It is a wonderful and hopeful article.The worries voiced about the intermingling of the two comunities (English and Latin Mass) cannot be any greater than those where there are English and Spanish masses since these involve two cultures.They however work together.I believe the fear is somewhat founded in parishes which host an indult community.In this case(as it isin the aticle from Indiana)people who belong to other parishes worship in one parish.Their children may go to different schools,they may live in quite disparate communities,,there may be no bond to that church and the people who attend the NO masses.That probably was why it tookthree years to overcome the differences.I believe it is the Pope’s vision that the traditional mass becomes a normal partof the liturgicallife of the parish involving primarily the geogarphical members ofthat parish.This is the ideal situation where one mass is in the extraordinary form,the usus antiquior,at which any parishioner may attend.My Latin NO mass which will become the traditional latin mass draws from 150 to 500 attendees.Many people attend it who attimes attend one of the other masses.People from outside are more than welcome ,but it is primarily this parish at prayer.

  4. I’m actually the author of the article in question. Thank you, Fr. Z, for your comments on it.

    For those interested, there is a podcast of the article, read by yours truly, available at the page the article is found on (see the link at the top of the post).


  5. cb says:

    Wouldn’t it be great ( and according to the Moptu proprio, if the associate pastor Fr. Magiera would also help in celebrating the NO Mass (not only playing the Organ there) at least occasionally??

  6. dcs says:

    We miss Fr. Magiera very much at Mater Ecclesiae.

    As far as children’s behavior is concerned, my wife and I have seen the difference in our children’s behavior at the Novus ordo and the traditional Mass. They are better behaved at the latter — not the perfect angels some would like them to be, of course — but mostly quiet and respectful.

  7. WRiley says:

    That’s my parish! The article does a very good job of showing the vibrant life of Holy Rosary. Will Riley

  8. Brian says:

    Just because Fr. Magiera shouldn’t reject it in principle, doesn’t mean that he should do it.

    Oh well, maybe with the Roman Canon and in Latin and without the “handshake” sans lay ministers of every stripe.

  9. “As far as children’s behavior is concerned, my wife and I have seen the difference in our children’s behavior at the Novus ordo and the traditional Mass. They are better behaved at the latter—not the perfect angels some would like them to be, of course—but mostly quiet and respectful.”

    I heard similiar sentiments expressed by a family who recently decided to move to an indult community – that their children behave better at Mass in the extraordinary form. I am not sure what to make of it? As far as the ordinary form goes, the liturgy is celebrated here , in my humble estimation, with reverence and dignity (we don’t have the handshake of peace and most people receive Holy Communion on the tongue while kneeling at the Communion rail). The same family recognizes as much but still sees a difference in their children between the two forms of the Mass.

  10. William says:

    Wouldn’t it be great (and according to the [letter accompaying the] motu proprio,) if the associate pastor Fr. Magiera would also help in celebrating the NO Mass (not only playing the Organ there) at least occasionally?

    I would be quite interested to hear you explain why that would be great. If Fr. Magiera were not FSSP then it would be fine, in my opinion, for him to celebrate the ordinary form if there were a need (for example, if the pastor wasn’t feeling well and no other priest was available). But I don’t think that Fr. Magiera should have to read Mass in the ordinary form just to prove a point.

    However, given that he is an FSSP priest, he shouldn’t do it at all. Let the FSSP stick to their founding purpose and let other priests be “biritual”. (I guess that should now be “biform”). I would, for example, very much like to see the “biritual” congregation Servi Jesu et Mariae expand to the U.S.

  11. dcs says:

    Sacerdos in Aeternum writes:
    As far as the ordinary form goes, the liturgy is celebrated here, in my humble estimation, with reverence and dignity (we don’t have the handshake of peace and most people receive Holy Communion on the tongue while kneeling at the Communion rail). The same family recognizes as much but still sees a difference in their children between the two forms of the Mass.

    Maybe it is the silence? Perhaps it’s sometimes hard for children to understand that they should be quiet when others aren’t.

    Our experience in the ordinary form did not — er, ordinarily include reverence and dignity, though, so I could not say for certain.

  12. Christine Quagan says:

    You probably could substitute “Holy Trinity” for “Holy Rosary,” and the article would have accurately described the situation at Holy Trinity, the former home of the “indult” Mass in Boston.

    While some eyewitnesses told me that the German American and Latin Mass groups did not mingle as easily in the first couple of years after the Traditional Mass was placed at Holy Trinity in 1990, even by the time I arrived in 1995 they cooperated. Latin Mass people were very eager to help with some of the regular parish events (e.g., receptions after Christian Arts Series concerts, and the Oktoberfest – Holy Trinity is a German National parish), and both German-American and Latin Mass parishioners served side-by-side on the Parish Council.

    Parishioners from both groups have also served side-by-side in the ongoing battle to save Holy Trinity parish (not yet closed, Deo gratias. May God preserve this treasure!) The Archdiocese moved the indult Mass to Mary Immaculate of Lourdes Parish in Newton in April – and this move will be cited in the canonical appeal of the closure of Holy Trinity if it closes, because it arbitrarily reduced the number of parishioners to make it easier to claim that the parish is closing because it has too few parishioners.

    Father Charles Higgins will always have the extraordinary form at Mary Immaculate because he strongly supports this form – even when, as we expect, other parishes in the Archdiocese begin to offer the extraordinary form when Summorum Pontificum takes effect. He speaks often of having a parish where the parishioners attached to both rites form a cohesive parish. So far the cooperation seen at Holy Trinity has also manifested itself at Mary Immaculate. For example, the territorial parishioners threw a big reception for the Latin Mass parishioners when they arrived, an all-parish icnic in September will involve both groups, and both groups will use the Faith and Life series for catechesis in the fall.

  13. Chuck, MI says:

    Msgr Schaedel is awesome! Holy Rosary is his parish, and they have CUF and Una Voce chapters there. I only can get down there from time to time, as it’s difficult for me to get there these days with the wife expecting #4, but Holy Rosary is where I went to my first Tridentine Mass. I was going to Low Mass there daily for awhile. And from what I understand, Sts. Cecilia and Philomenia is completely served by the FSSP and there is NO Novus Ordo there at all! I’d love to be able to go there daily…

  14. Royce says:

    Fr. Z,

    I’m so glad to see your comments on this article. I go to college not far from Holy Rosary and regularly drive an hour to go to Mass there only Sunday morning. It is a truly amazing place and I love bringing friends there to experience the Extraordinary form of the Mass. This parish has completely changed the way I think about worship and has been a vessel of unbelievable Grace for me during my college years. I’m not sure what I would have done without it. The people have always been very welcoming and warm — it’s obvious that it’s a great parish when you visit.

    God Bless,

  15. Tony says:

    Again with the “English Mass”! We are Roman Catholics, not High Church Anglicans. The language of the Roman Rite is Latin. With due respect to Msgr. Schaedel, I would argue that a Mass entirely in the vernacular is definitely not encouraged by the Church (SC 36), and is only allowed because of the hardness of heart of liturgical abusers in the 70’s (like communion in the hand). It’s only the “preference” of the majority, I believe, because it’s familiar and because most people fear defying the status quo.

    I do hope Fr. Magiera comes back to Mater Ecclesiae to visit sometime. Indianapolis is blessed to have him.

  16. AMW says:


    I’m sure you are not aware of this, but Monsignor Schaedel is one of the best “reform of the reform” priests
    in the Archdiocese of Indianapolis. His vernacular “English” Masses are not what you may think. Those
    posters here who are parishioners at Holy Rosary may correct me if I am wrong, but I think Monsignor’s Novus
    Ordo Masses include a great deal of Latin. He also has the policy that he does not schedule servers for his
    Masses — any boy (he uses only male altar servers) who wants to serve any particular Mass may do so. He
    always has enough servers and always finds something for each of them to do! It is quite a breathtaking

    I personally believe that Monsignor’s comments in this article do not clearly reflect his commitment to the
    reverent celebration of both forms of the liturgy. He is treasure to have in our Archdiocese.

  17. The ordinary and the extraordinary can work easily in any parish. For many years this happened at the San Clemente Mission, Bakersfield, CA.. Well it did until it was destroyed, but in the glory days of the mission it worked very well and I can’t understand why anyone would think it couldn’t. Each group has their liturgy, all groups support the priest and the parish, it is very easy, been there, done that.

  18. WRiley says:

    We are blessed in the Archdiocese of Indianapolis to have Monsignor Schaedel as the Vicar General.

  19. WRiley says:

    Not to mention our Archbishop!

  20. tleatherland says:

    “For the most part, people that are really attached to the old Latin Mass have fairly convenient opportunities to [attend them].” I’m from Southern Indiana, and from my visits back home, I can tell you that that statement is an outright lie. For instance, people living in Crawford, Orange, or Perry counties would have to travel anywhere from 45-60 miles to attend the True Mass, and that in Louisville, which isn’t even part of the Archdiocese of Indianapolis. Face it: we’re going to have to petition the Ecclesia Dei commission to get anywhere with Summorum Pontificum.

  21. S.M.N. says:


    Firstly, Msgr. Schaedel prefaced his comment with “for the most part,” and the area you name is one of the few in the Archdiocese (which covers almost 14,000 square miles – there are bound to be a few gaps) without easy access to the Latin Mass, so I can’t imagine why you consider his statement to be an “outright lie.” Secondly, the chancery has been very generous in inviting the FSSP to the Archdiocese and otherwise granting the indult, and not to mention the promotion of so many young, traditional-minded priests to diocesan positions, so while I can see appeals to the Ecclesia Dei Commission being necessary for, say, the Evansville and Lafayette dioceses, any interference by the Archbishop or his vicars with the rules laid down in Summorum Pontificum would genuinely surprise me. If you can organize a group and refrain from the hysterics and combativeness of your above comment, I am certain you would get your Mass.

  22. Andy K. says:

    Dear Fr. Z.,

    You highlighted the word “Even” in a paragraph that insinuated (the paragraph, not your emphasis) that there is no older form of the Mass in S. Indiana, so those who wish it travel out of diocesan boundaries to Louisville, Kentucky. Are there any canon issues regarding Confirmation at that time?


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