Normally when the Pope meets a head of state, there is a special protocol to be followed. The same goes for when the President meets with a head of state.
When Pope Benedict came to the USA, he received very special treatment at the White House. Yes, it was his 80th birthday, but it was indeed special.
Now, Pres. Bush has received very special treatment for his visit to Pope Benedict.
The President and Pope Benedict spent some time walking in the Vatican Gardens.
Of course Pope Benedict spends some time walking everyday, for his health. But this time I don’t think he was simply multitasking.
I usually am not subject to the usual rumor rumbling of the Italian press, but it strikes me that something is up.
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I completely agree with you Father. I think President Bush wants to convert to Catholicism and will wait until he leaves office. Pope Benedict has made a HUGE impression on the President. Deo Gratias!
That will be a great day.
His Holiness is making a huge impression on a lot of people.
I truly hope that this is the case.
There are many things that Bush and the Church may not see eye-to-eye on, particularly when it comes to the handling of matters such as Iraq, but I do not think (including Kennedy) there has ever been a president as respectful of the Catholic Church as Bush has been – so keen to get their input, even if he disagrees with her judgment; quoting her leaders and writings; meeting personally with people whose opinions he obviously respects.
To have him enter the fold, I think, would be a wonderful moment to evangelize and demonstrate the broad appeal the faith, properly communicated, can have – how universal its call can be.
Still, even if the president ultimately remains outside of Catholicism, I believe his faith to be sincere and a hopeful demonstration of the Invisible Church, United.
President Bush is more Catholic already than many “catholic” politicians! Let’s pray for him and for our Holy Father in their needs!
Bush to Benedict: “Your eminence, you’re looking good.”
The man really does embarrass me sometimes.
Hmmmm…
It certainly makes me wonder. Blair converted shortly after a visit to the Vatican. Then there was that Muslim reporter. Bush may convert. Who exactly is Pope Benedict that he inspires this?
I’m wondering if President Bush’s last visit with Pope Benedict XVI led him to this. Munda cor meum ac lábia mea, omnipotens Deus…?
At any rate, I think it’s a very good sign for President Bush on a personal level.
No mention of Bush’s visit to the Vatican on the GB news watched today even though he is coming to London this weekend. However on one of the French tv news bulletins it mentioned the rumour that Bush may be considering converting and after Blair who knows?
Actually, Tony Blair’s conversion to Catholicism was a foregone conclusion in the UK a very long time before Josef Ratzinger ever donned a white skullcap!
Not that I’m trying to dampen anything else, but let’s keep the facts straight here.
“Bush to Benedict: “Your eminence, you’re looking good.”
The man really does embarrass me sometimes.
”
I copied this post from a few spaces up. Tell me, did Bush really say something stupid like this to the Pope….or hopefully is this just a joke?
Bush embarasses me mostly all the time, especially when his thich Texan accent starts to come out at solemn occasions or formal speeches. The surroundings might be opulent, the guests regal, but Bush opens his mouth and sounds like a barely literate “red-necked good ol’ boy “
Such comments about our president bespeaks more to the commtator than it does to the one who is being ridiculed. How about some Christian Charity, for the Love of God.
I was always impressed by how Bush adopted John Paul the Great’s phrases “culture of life” and “culture of death”. Now he quotes Pope Benedict XVI. Bush quotes our holy popes more than most priests do in homilies!
I am not surprised about the “your eminence” thing if that is true. It has nothing to do with Bush himself, though he should know better, but rather many people no longer know the proper forms and styles of address of high churchmen, the aristocracy, etc. I’ve personally heard the phrase “His Excellency Pope Benedict” more than once… shudder…
When did one’s accent become a determinant of intellectual ability or nobility of character?
Oh, GWB could have cured the common cold, and most visceral haters of him would blame him for not including athlete’s foot in the solution.
I ignore them most of the time.
During the Pope’s visit to the U.S. in April, the President always addressed him as “Holy Father”
Semper Fi!
The tougher nut to crack in this will be Mrs. Bush.
Also, a reminder there are four “The Greats” in the Roman Catholic Church: Leo the Great, Albert the Great, Gregory the Great and Basil the Great.
The Holy Father will survive his visitor’s bumptiousness (there must be times he longs to called “Eminence”). Our frat-boy President has a well-known history of handing out nicknames.
Kaye,
When you are from the South (as I am) and have an accent (as I do), it is something you deal with all the time. More people than I care to admit seem to think that intellect and a drawl are incompatible.
Dear Readers,
I mentioned this on another web site. If you don’t have something nice to say about someone, Silence is the best. As Christians we are to be Christian like: to forgive, to over look etc. If President Bush did make that mistake by calling Pope Benedict “Your Eminence”, it was just a mistake. Do you really think that our Holy Father was upset that he was not called Your Holiness? and to use Red-Neck…Who is without sin or faults cast the first stone….We then wonder why we are treated the way we are…
America and the rest of the world would have been better off if Bush remained a drunk
He and cronies Cheney & Rumsfeld have killed, maimed, torured and displaced
thousands of innocent people in an unjust and immoral war. The American
hierarchy could have prevented Bush’s Iraq war by opposing it as Pope
John Paul II did. Instead of Deo gratias, bloggers should be saying
mea culpa, mea MAXIMA culpa!
Of course “Magnus” or “the Great” is not formally bestowed on anyone or by anyone. It’s done by acclamation and popular usage. Time will tell, but those who object may have an uphill battle.
His Holiness is also an “eminence”. The rude thing is to focus on it and mention it ad infinitum.
Drop the self-righteous palaver.
…and here we go…
You guys need to lighten up about Bush’s speaking finesse. How many of you could handle the job of President of the USA? I remember the days of FDR when the press had so much respect for that office that they never let the public know about his leg braces and polio.Imagine someone making these comments about the Pope? “Heh, did you see that verbal slip up the Holy Father made. What a buffoon!”
Charity. That’s all.
Besides, he may become “family” if these rumors turn up to be true.
I love our President.
God bless him!
Miseratur ei omnipotens Deus,et, dimissis peccatis ejus…
I was taken with Bush’s grand smile, like that of a kid on Christmas morning. His delight in being with the Holy Father is so, well, Catholic.
Hmmmm.
Caution warranted, however. We’ve been through this before with President Reagan.
While I would love to think President Bush was converting to Catholicism, I imagine the Holy Father is simply trying to repay President Bush for his particularly warm welcome in April.
As for President Bush’s motives in April, who knows. However, I do like to think that the President realizes that the Pope is more than a visible head of state and that they actually share many of the same subjects.
Bush already knows what it is like to be hated for his principles. He should therefore have no problem becoming Catholic.
It was beautiful to see how respectfully President Bush spoke to the Holy Father when he was here, without patronizing him in the least. Not everyone is like that. Contra all the things liberals say, I’ve always thought one of the president’s better qualities was a proper sense of decorum, respect, and even humility. People are always confusing hubris with a willingness to do what you think is right. But then, the Holy Father would understand that as well as anyone.
God Bless the President wherever his spiritual journey takes him (I hope to the Chruch).
Regarding the unnecessary personal/political comments: if your only tool is the ad hominem attack, your rhetorical toolbox is sadly lacking.
It is sad that people purporting to be catholic are so parochial. Elected officials
are to be held accountable to the electorate. Emitte lucem tuam…
May I remind those commenting that President Bush’s brother, Jeb, is a Roman Catholic? Jeb’s wife is Hispanic, if I recall correctly. In fact, I believe Jeb is a member of the Knights of Columbus.
It would not surprise me to find that the President, on leaving office, converts. There are many Catholics within his White House circle. He is a very decent man in my estimation.
D.v.
God bless President Bush and the Holy Father.
Closeness between Pope Benedict and President Bush can only lead to good things. How wonderful it is that George Bush is open to the Holy Father’s wisdom. As a Brit, I wish I could feel the same about Tony Blair. His conversion seemed very strange, considering his track record of voting for anti-life issues etc. But then God moves in a mysterious way!!
Nerd Corner: Pope Benedict spent his 81st birthday in the USA, not his 80th. Truly, he is ‘looking good’!
Sedulus:
Air America may have need of your talents- not that, in retrospect, it does not seem that Iraq was not an ill conceived Wilsonian adventure. But thank you for keeping this baorrd politically diverse.
Ken:
Good point on Laura Bush’s feelings here. Her favorite author is Doestoevsky, who is profoundly Catholic in his own way. However, her favorite passage is the Grand Inquisitor where the Catholic church is reduced to its most hateful charicature (apparently a reply to Soloviev’s tilt toward Rome).
Publius
The comments of Matthew Mattingly and sedulus above almost made me
forget Fr. Z’s frequent admonition to “think before you post”! Then I
thought, “What would President Bush do?” Based on what we’ve seen of
him over the past seven and a half years, he would not respond to them
in kind and, if he were to meet them, would probably treat those
individuals with utmost civility and courtesy, as he has done people
who have said far worse things about him. This readiness to “turn the
other cheek” has sometimes caused great frustration in his many
supporters but, in my opinion, marks President Bush as a true Christian
gentleman.
Sedulus, may I remind you that when the Roman Empire made Christianity the official state religion and many converted to Catholicism, as well as when Emperor Constantine converted nearly 70 years before that, people did not focus on the sins of the Empire, but rather rejoiced. Deo Gratias indeed!
81st
tony blairs conversion to catholicism? still waiting for that one
Father :
I must say the same thought passed through my mind. Although the war was probably in retrospect a mistake, I have a great respect and affection for the President. What a witness for Christ and His Church if he were to convert ! “Marshall Plan”, indeed…
“In the words of St. Augustine, ‘packs take ’em'”. Well I really hope he does convert, it always helps to have a former CEO on your side.
As a Catholic, I was deeply moved by President Bush’s welcoming ceremony to Pope Benedict XVI. Hick accent or no hick accent, President Bush has stood on the side of unborn babies when a lot of Catholics In Name Only in DC have not.
Some of you folks are making a serious mistake believing Pres Bush is “stupid” he is not. Stupid people are not allowed to fly jet fighters (it took him longer to qualify because he did not have a science background, he learned calculus on his own to qualify); stupid people do not get into Harvard Business School regardless of family name and once there do not get the reputation as the best poker player in the MBA program; and stupid people are not elected governor of texas twice…second time by a very large margin…
By believing the party line that “Bush is stupid” lets him get away with a lot…Bush also reads a great deal and likes history. Now someone who isn’t stupid and reads a lot and has a vantage point to see what has happened — and is about to happen to the world — might very well joint the Church.
Thanks, Calleva – I was about to comment that it was Pope Benedict’s 81st birthday on April 16th, but you beat me to it! I don’t know much about President Bush – I’m just an Englishwoman who loves Pope Benedict! God keep him safe and well for many years to come!
He’s given President Bush a wonderful and unique welcome at the Vatican and this goes to prove what a happy and successful visit he had to the USA in April.
Have a look at “Joan’s Rome”, Joan Lewis’s blog on EWTN. She has some original comments on the Bush visit.
Although I am not a fan of Mr. Bush, this focus on his accent is, quite frankly, immature and pathetic.
Please Pray for Tim Russert who just passed away:
NBC’s Tim Russert dead at 58
He was the Washington bureau chief and moderator of ‘Meet the Press’
LINK:
NBC’s Tim Russert dead at 58
Excerpt: “BREAKING NEWS NBC News and MSNBC updated 8 minutes ago
WASHINGTON – Tim Russert, NBC News’ Washington bureau chief and the moderator of “Meet the Press,” died Friday after collapsing in the bureau, NBC News said Friday. He was 58.
Russert was recording voiceovers for Sunday’s “Meet the Press” program when he collapsed, the network said. No details were immediately available.
Russert, the recipient of 48 honorary doctorates, took over the helm of “Meet the Press” in December 1991. Now in its 60th year, “Meet the Press” is the longest-running program in the history of television.
In 2008, Time Magazine named him one of the 100 most influential people in the world.
Timothy John Russert Jr. was born in Buffalo, N.Y., on May 7, 1950. He was a graduate of Canisius High School, John Carroll University and the Cleveland-Marshall College of Law. He was a member of the bar in New York and the District of Columbia.”
Russert joined NBC News in 1984. In April 1985, he supervised the live broadcasts of NBC’s TODAY show from Rome, negotiating and arranging an appearance by Pope John Paul II, a first for American television. In 1986 and 1987, Russert led NBC News’ weeklong broadcasts from South America, Australia and China.”
Bill said: “Although I am not a fan of Mr. Bush, this focus on his accent is, quite frankly, immature and pathetic.”
Well said!
Let’s pray Bush does convert, and Obama too, and that “both” Democrats and Republicans move towards obeying and defending the Natural Law.
Let’s pray Bush does convert, and Obama too, and that “both” Democrats and Republicans move towards obeying and defending the Natural Law.
And Obama converting to Catholicism would actually automatically cause him to become Pro-Life?
Heck, there are even Catholics who themselves (in particular, Catholic politicians) who don’t even believe in the Pro-Life principles of the Church — which, consequently, shows in their politics!
I will certainly remember the soul of Tim at the Liturgy in the morning. He was an undergraduate student at JCU while I was in Graduate School. RIP
I have thought for a long time that President Bush was leaning Catholic. Since the funeral of JP II. I don’t know why but I believe he is on the journey across the Tiber.
And Obama converting to Catholicism would actually automatically cause him to become Pro-Life?
I think for one to be considered a Catholic it is implied that they submit themselves to the teachings of the Church, especially in the case of a convert (don’t you profess allegiance to everything that Holy Mother Church held and holds and reject anything that is rejected by the Church?)
I think for one to be considered a Catholic it is implied that they submit themselves to the teachings of the Church, especially in the case of a convert
Unfortunately, there are Catholics today who think and say otherwise.
While they, on the one hand, find it wholly acceptable to murder babies; even in spite of this, they yet consider themselves genuinely Catholic!
23 months from now, this world will be a very changed place, and not for the better. I, for one, am savoring both Pope Benedict’s USA visit, and President Bush’s Vatican visit.
Remember what President Bush said when a reporter asked him what he saw when he
looked at the Pope’s face: “I see God.”
Remember also, for what it is worth, that when the president announced the death
of Pope John Paul II, both he and Mrs. Bush were blinking back tears.
We should pray for a conversion of all sinners=all people, and this includes President Bush.
I have heard more than a few time that God willing we make it to heaven we will be quite surprised to see who is there also.
Well actually not exactly now that I reflect on that. I’m sure that anyone who makes it to heaven will have so much humility that the only one they’re surprised at seeing there are, themselves. Pray for sinners, pray for our leaders.
President Bush will be remembered by history as a good if not perhaps a great president. He exibits humility and strength of character that ranks with the best. He and Benedict XVI made friends. Any friend of the Pope is automatically a friend of mine.
I have often wondered why it is that there is such hatred of President Bush. I was not a fan of President Clinton, but my dislike did not prompt me to go to non-political discussions to trumpet my dislike of him, nor did it cause me to dislike all of his supporters (including members of my own family).
I have two prayers: for the conversion of the President and Mrs. Bush and for peace in the hearts of those who hate him so much.
I am in Canada, and I would just like to say that while I hear jokes being made about your President Bush and the way he sometimes speaks, I commend him for not giving up his principles just because he is in a political office. I personally faxed him when he was only in office a short time and I learned that he had stopped funding Planned Parenthood. You won’t see a gutsy move like that being made by a Canadian politician, that’s for sure. So even though I am not in the U.S. and I don’t keep a close watch on his every move and word, the things I do hear lead me to believe that he is much more a man of faith than man of our Canadian so called “Catholic” politicians, who continuously remind us that they simply cannot allow their personal beliefs to influence their political decisions. Thus, the example of our previous Prime Minister – Mr. “Catholic” Martin who publicly discounted the Pope’s words to Canadian politicians at that time who were not promoting Catholic values as the Pope’s “opinion” to which he was entitled, and continued to receive Holy Communion while allowing women the right to kill their unborn children.
I don’t know enough about the war in Iraq to comment on it, but I have seen and heard enough of Bush to believe that he is a man of principle and he does not seem to be afraid to stick to that, regardless of popularity. I have to respect that, and I admit I am somewhat envious as I look at our Canadian leaders and wonder when they will stop thinking about their next election and start thinking about the future of morality in our country.
As a side note – someone previously commented that Bush talks more about the words of our Holy Father than most priests do in homilies, and I would just like to reiterate that myself as it is certainly the case where I am!
And what about the Church’s doctrine of Just War? It does not seem that GWB was very aware of
the jus ad bellum, nor of the jus in bello. Will he recognize he was completely wrong on both counts?
Comment by Teddy
I think there are just wars, but I also think that the criteria used for deciding such are obsolete.
>> I think there are just wars, but I also think that the criteria used for deciding such are
>> obsolete.
>> Comment by RBrown — 14 June 2008 @ 9:58 am
Oh yeah! And you know better than the Aquinate. I love must admit that I am impressed. And would you please make us the pleasure to explain us what the new criteria are? And while you are at it, can you also please tell us what else in the Tradition is obsolete? Maybe the TLM as well ?
It is incredible how some folks can be “traditionalist” on some issues, and hypermodernist on some others. I guess it all depends on the direction of the wind.
Phil
>> I think there are just wars, but I also think that the criteria used for deciding such are
>> obsolete.
>> Comment by RBrown — 14 June 2008 @ 9:58 am
Oh yeah! And you know better than the Aquinate. I must admit that I am impressed. And would you please make us the pleasure to explain us what the new criteria are? And while you are at it, can you also please tell us what else in the Tradition is obsolete? Maybe the TLM as well ?
It is incredible how some folks can be \”traditionalist\” on some issues, and hypermodernist on some others. I guess it all depends on the direction of the wind.
Phil
Too many of you sound like the Prodigal’s elder brother. I hope President & Mrs. Bush covert, and I hope that they, and all of us, will strive to live that faith, outwardly and inwardly, according to the example of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Oh yeah! And you know better than the Aquinate. I love must admit that I am impressed. And would you please make us the pleasure to explain us what the new criteria are? And while you are at it, can you also please tell us what else in the Tradition is obsolete? Maybe the TLM as well?
It is incredible how some folks can be “traditionalist” on some issues, and hypermodernist on some others. I guess it all depends on the direction of the wind.
Phil
I have noticed how often people who post on the Internet assume that others know as little as they do.
1. I have spent the better part of 35 years studying the thought of St Thomas and hold all the relevant theology degrees from the Angelicum with an emphasis on Thomistic Studies. As far as I know, in the last 30 years, I am only one of two people (the other, una Romana, is now teaching there) who have specialized in Thomistic Studies and also did the STB at the Angelicum.
2. Although I taught at the FSSP seminary, I am not a Traditionalist. By training and inclination, I am a Thomist who recognizes that Latin liturgy is essential to the Church.
3. Just War Theory did not originate with St Thomas.
4. Now for your answer:
The problem with Just War Theory is that the method of warfare has changed. Once upon a time war was a matter of professional armies meeting in the field. But that began to change with the coming of total warfare, the originator probably having been Napoleon. Sherman was also a factor.
I will only mention here one problem with applying Just War Theory to modern warfare: The distinction between combatants and non-combatants has been blurred with importance of economic prosperity in waging war AND the production of highly technical weapons by those who are technically non-combatants.
“So I must assume that you believed that Iraq had WMD.”
Well, actually since I participated in the blockade enforcing the sanctions and personally saw WMD precursor materials on ships that were subsequently redirected to Emirate ports to allow said material to be confiscated, yes I do believe that WMDs were present in Iraq.
Since the WHO itself admits that some 19,00 liters of anthrax, which had been in the possession of the Iraqi government are still missing I find it very easy to beleive that Iraq had WMD.
Honestly, I am sorry. This is so weak I won’t even waste my time arguing nor outlining my own academic credentials. Which is, by the way, completely besides the point.
First, you say that I am contradicting St Thomas. Then when I mention credentials that indicate that I indeed know something about St Thomas, you say it’s irrelevant. That doesn’t make much sense.
I feel also sorry for you that you have to defend your support for an unjust war by using arguments such as “I am only one of two people in the world etc.”. This is very reminiscent of the typical left-wing academics’ arguments. Bad, bad.
Phil
Left Wing? I thought the left wingers were against the war? Weren’t the war drums sounded by neo-cons like Wolfowitz, Kristol, Perle, Libby,
And I never said I supported the war, so you’re wrong yet again. (Congrats on a hat trick!) I said that the nature of war has changed since the time of the formulation of the Just War Theory.
BTW, the only reason to feel sorry for me is that now and then I have do deal with hard-headed know-nothings.
To Wolfowitz, Kristol, Perle, Libby, add Feith.
I see all my comments have been removed. Why? Was I discourteous?
19,00 liters of anthrax
We can’t find them so they must have hidden them.
Not a single one of Powell’s lies at the UN have proven out. Powell also lied about the first gulf war, massed Iraqi tanks at the Saudi borders. We must invade. Lies, lies without accountability. Look into the baby incubator story if you care. Look into Powell’s right hand man Larry Wilkerson and see what he has to say about it.
What is the shelf life of anthrax?
Hey, don’t worry about it, Yuri, Father Zuhlsdorf got rid of my comments too. I suspect it’s primarily because our comments really had nothing to do with the topic at hand, and perhaps because they were beginning to overrun the commentbox with the interminable debate about Iraq.
I do worry about it Jordanes, I thought we were having a principled discussion.
The topic at hand was Bush becoming a Catholic. Our posts addressed that issue, yes, with some side issues I know, but it’s unlikely that any discussion about Bush will not include the Iraq war.
I put considerable time into my posts, and Father, I object to them being thrown out without at least a warning or a reason.
I was raised a Catholic and blew it off many years ago, but now, like so many, I’m reinvestigating the religion and trying to find some of the true treasure.
Perhaps I’m in the wrong place and rather than leaving in a righteous huff maybe some of you could direct me to other groups that do not perform midnight “excommunications” without warning.
What will mom say!
Now my computer is apparently blocked from accessing this site at all. I can access it from other computers around town. This means I cannot hear the podcasts, read the news or read Father Z’s other commentary. This also means the rest of my family is banned, as well as anyone on my local wireless network. This is collective punishment, there is no nicer word for it. You all here, think about that.
I thought the word “excommunication” was a joke, but I’m afraid the fact is that my posts have been erased and I have been banished, WITHOUT EXPLANATION OR WARNING.
“Not to worry” Jordanes said. Are you banned as well Jordanes, or am I alone singled out?
Is this really what Catholics are about? Is this behavior normal for Catholics?
I have called Father Z for an explanation and left a message. I’m not holding my breath.
Will Father Z banish the DNS number of every computer I post from. This could take down a whole town!
I can publish my experience here, I have all my posts and those of Jordanes as well, it’s rather more difficult to censor a Newsreader Father Z, and I will publish if all I receive is silence and if, after reflection, I think it is worth it.
I have defended the church from disinformation and lies with the same vigor that I expressed here. Clearly, I have made a mistake.
I wish you all and all seekers of truth only the best.
— Yuri
Um… Yuri:
If I might suggest a course of action more productive than hijacking a web blog that you don’t own, operate, or (if I presume correctly) support? Try this:
Create Your own blog, free!
You can post anti=Bush commentary, post updates on faith journey, and start new threads to your heart’s content… all for free! Heck, maybe we can even get Fr. Z to sign up for your blog, post a single post, and let you delete it (for sheer enjoyment value), and maybe even ban *him*!
Seriously, though… would you kindly let the Iraq War thing die, already? Is it important? Certainly. Is it on topic? No. Does it have moral parity with abortion? Hardly. (Aside from the contract between innocent and untargeted innocent civilians vs. directly targeted unborn children, compare body counts, sometime; I challenge you to find any estimates which claim 50,000,000 dead through any of the military actions in the middle east.) Do you need to harp on it here? Not a bit of it.
In Christ,
Brian