A different take on “active participation”

I hear there was recently another attempted ordination of a wymyn in Arizona.

About Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Fr. Z is the guy who runs this blog. o{]:¬)
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  1. pcstokell says:

    So, was it an attempted ordination with “illicit succession,” or the other kind? You know, with the ones in league with the Judean People’s Front? (or was it the PFJ? I forget.)

  2. Luke says:

    Common. . . he presides over the ECC. The Hickman fellow that ordained her that is. Married three times, divorced twice. Five confused children. Sad. Sad. Sad. Elaine Groppenbacher took advantage of a confused man on a confused mission.

  3. I am not sure if they were “succession” schismatic heretics or not. Since they had a fellow dressed as a bishop – a man for a change – I suspect they think that sort of thing is necessary.

  4. Hey, you play with fire, you get burned.
    Or in this case, decapitated and drawn and quartered!
    Be care for what you wish for; it COULD happen in ways you never dreamed! LOL!!

  5. Jack Hughes says:

    ROTFL even if according to St Teresa of Jesus I shouldn’t

  6. Discipula says:

    I wonder how many of these women who want to be ordained stop to think that not just any man can be ordained either, that it takes more than a baptismal certificate and a Mr. before your name to qualify. But then, I’m convinced, the only reason these people who favor “Catholic” priestesses want them is because they figure that’s the only way they’ll get the Church to drop her ban on abortion and birth control and all the other nutty things they favor.

    It’s significant that the only women interested in the priestesshood (that I’ve seen) all look much older than me (the upper side of 30-something). It looks like a dying movement.

  7. dymh says:

    I hope Father considers removing the cartoon of the wymyn priest being sacrificed. We all know that it is placed there in jest, in fact, any reasonable person would. However, there are many who wallow in their sense of victimhood and are anything but reasonable. These people could easily use the cartoon to denigrate their critics, get press attention, further wave their victim flag high, etc.

    Any of us have the right to run such a cartoon, however, we don’t want to win a battle insisting on that right, but end up losing the war. There are people of good will out there, though uneducated on the issue of women in the priesthood, whose support we could lose due to self-proclaimed somen priests organizing a lynch mob against orthodox priests like Father Z.

  8. Luke says:

    Okay. A brief story to share:

    We had an attorney who is Catholic and attends a decent Parish. When we first heard this I entered into a discussion of things sacred only to discover that our attorney wants the Church to ordain women. Her reasoning was interesting. She decided that because she found it easy to speak to a man (of the cloth, that is) that men might be more at ease if they could speak to a woman (of the cloth, that is). Wild. She was also a Democrat who voted for BLANK. Is it possible that there is just a misunderstanding of the fact that the Pope couldn’t ordain a woman if he wanted to? In the times we’re in it seems that women who vie for equal rights are actually losing ground in many places.

  9. rakesvines says:

    So canonically, these “ordained” women are still baptised layfolk who are part of the Church but have some serious delusions of grandeur, right. Or have they cut themselves off?

  10. Cut themselves off.
    Pope Benedict said it; “gravior delicta” or whatever.

  11. “Is it possible that there is just a misunderstanding of the fact that the Pope couldn’t ordain a woman if he wanted to?”

    Here we come to the meat of the nut. Yes; those who push for women’s ordination have a sociological-juridical view of the Church as a largely human institution, a free association in which “rights” and “justice” and “fairness” are the operative values. They don’t have a metaphysic; they do not understand that not only what Scripture and Tradition say (as if it were a matter of divine or human fiat) but that the very structure of Christ, men and women make it impossible for women to be ordained. They think it’s merely a matter of the will-to-power.

  12. TonyLayne says:

    @ Luke: “Is it possible that there is just a misunderstanding of the fact that the Pope couldn’t ordain a woman if he wanted to?”

    *sigh* No, it’s a deliberate refusal to even acknowledge the Church’s reasoning, let alone engage it. Don’t take this as a criticism, but “misunderstanding” implies that there’s some way you can explain it to them which will convince them that it’s all right.

    Your friend’s reasoning is at least well-meant. The wymyn who demand ordination are still held in thrall by the social-conflict paradigm which powered most second-wave feminist theory and which still has a definite presence in the third wave. They want to be able to be priests because it’s (presumably) a position of social power. The theology of sacraments and of the priesthood are almost irrelevant to them; tradition is simply another word for institutionalized sexism. It’s not uncharitable to wonder whether they understand Catholicism, let alone the Pope or the priesthood.

  13. The saddest thing about this so-called “ordinations” is that they are implicit screams for attention and approval from males of the Roman Curia.

  14. Luke says:

    Interesting point, Father.

    TonyLane: You are right; I did sense that I was speaking with a feminist to be sure. The Relativism of our age doesn’t help matters. These people truly believe that anything goes and that, because they WANT ordination, they are entitled to a hearing–possibly from the males in the Roman Curia, yes.

    Who better to give these particular women what they want than a priest who believes that he can have what he wants, even barring God’s Revelation in Christ. Too, too bad. . .

  15. Luke says:

    By the way, I vote that the cartoon stays right where it is. That is, if we were voting on the matter. . .

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