ANSA with Cardinal Bertone on the MP

This is from ANSA on the MP.  They spoke with Card. Bertone.  Here is an excerpt (my translation):

"Leaks in circulation during the autumn of last year about the first draft of the Motu Proprio hypothisized that a request by a certain muber of faithful would be enough to compel a priest [to celebrate] with the Tridentine rite.  The project of total direstriction of the Mass in Latin raised doubts and reservations in some bodies of bishop, especially among the French and Americans, fearful that the presence of two liturgical rites could in the end fracture the unity of national Churches and remove authority from the local bishops.  From last December, behind the scenes, various modifications were made to the original document, to grant to the bishops – or so it seems – to nevertheless have "the last word".

"The role of the bishop is central in the dispositions of the order of celebrations", the Cardinal Secretary of State, Tarcisio Bertone, explained today, commenting on the Motu Proprio.  With the restoration of the pre-Conciliar liturgy,  he added, it was desired above all to give homage to the "great riches of tradition".  The document of the Pope is not just an homage to the grand past of Latinity: it could also reopen the path toward a reconciliation of the Lefebvrite schism.

Le indiscrezioni circolate nell’autunno dello scorso anno sulla prima bozza di Motu proprio ipotizzavano che bastasse la richiesta di un certo numero di fedeli per obbligare un sacerdote al rito tridentino. Il progetto di totale liberalizzazione della messa in latino aveva suscitato le perplessità e le riserve di alcuni episcopati, in particolare quello francese e quello statunitense, timorosi che la presenza di due riti liturgici potesse alla fine incrinare l’unità delle chiese nazionali e togliere autorità ai vescovi locali. Dal dicembre scorso, dietro le quinte, sono state apportate diverse modifiche al documento originale, per consentire ai vescovi – a quanto pare – di avere comunque "l’ultima parola".

 "Il ruolo del vescovo è centrale nelle disposizioni dell’ordine delle celebrazioni", ha spiegato oggi il cardinale segretario di Stato vaticano, Tarcisio Bertone, commentando il Motu Proprio. Con il ripristino della liturgia pre-conciliare, ha aggiunto, si vuole sopratutto rendere omaggio alla "grande ricchezza della tradizione". Il documento del Papa non è solo un omaggio al passato grandioso della latinità: esso potrebbe anche riaprire la strada verso la ricomposizione dello scisma lefebvriano.

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25 Responses to ANSA with Cardinal Bertone on the MP

  1. Podatus says:

    From last December, behind the scenes, various modifications were made to the original document, to grant to the bishops – or so it seems – to nevertheless have “the last word”.

    Hmmmm. OK, this makes sense if some bone-headed pastor decides he is going to make every Mass in his parish a traditional Mass against the wishes of his parisioners and assistants or something similar . . . the bishop should step in. But it’s got to be different from the 1988 Indult.

  2. Barb says:

    If the bishop still has the last word, the document will be useless to those of us who have been deprived of this Mass unjustly for the past 40 years. We will still hear the “In my prudential judgment, I will not give permission for this Mass” song from bishops like mine. So the reason for drinking any champagne will be simply to drown my sorrows.

  3. Iosephus says:

    Yeah – what’s to celebrate if the bishop still has the last word? How is this different than the current situation? No champagne if this document only starts the countdown to the next document to “free” the old Mass. Still, I suspect that it will have to improve the situation at least in some degree, if there is to be any point in promulgating it or if there is to be any hope of using it in negotiations with the SSPX.

  4. Arieh says:

    Barb, I think the pope is too smart to issue another Ecclesia Dei.

  5. Mark says:

    Quote: From last December, behind the scenes, various modifications were made to the original document, to grant to the bishops – or so it seems – to nevertheless have “the last word”.

    It will be quite interesting to see “exactly” how this “last word” will be directed in the document of the MP itself. If this is left up to the bishops – without some sort of an appeal process to Rome, I don’t see how this document will help those individuals whose bishops are “less generous” among the lot in places like France and Germany for example…

    I’m not “feeling the love” on this – if this caveat is indeed in the Motu Proprio. But we’ll have to wait and see.

    In Christo,

    Mark

  6. Podatus says:

    I still think that the main difference will be that the priest will not need to ask permission, it will be up to the bishop to intervene and give reasons if he wishes to forbid – reasons which then can be appealed to Ecclesia Dei. Still we will have to wait and see the document.

  7. Steven says:

    Something must be new in the document… Otherwise it is useless.

  8. Hammerbrecher says:

    Podatus is right. Now the faithful or priest can petition Ecclesia Dei, but we see what that does…

  9. Serafino says:

    This is just what said yesterday! The bishop will always have the last word! Nothing will change, and you will hear from the bishop.

    ” Thank you so very much for your kind letter requesting the TLM. After much prayer and reflection WE have decided not to grant your request. Please be assure of OUR prayers for you.”

    God bless you,

    Bishop “I am in charge!”

  10. Podatus says:

    Let’s keep in mind: no priest can say Mass or hear confessions in a given diocese if the bishop doesn’t allow it. It has always been the case that the bishop has “the last word.” But in what sense will he have the last word. It could be as simple as allowing him to say, “every parish, unless it is a ’62 Missal parish, must have at least one ’69 Missal Mass.” (Which is precisely what Bp. Bruskewitz did for his diocese.) Things like that.

  11. Hammerbrecher says:

    I smell the Bishops pulling the trination and not enough priests response out right now… They will send out the letters to the parishes where the priest doesn’t know how nor want to say the 62 Missal that he doesn’t have enough priests to send one there, and to the parish where the priest knows how and wants to say the 62 Missal he will pull out the trination rank that he has to say 3 Novus Ordo Masses and no more on Sunday…

  12. zathar says:

    Notice the “last word” phrase is in quotes. That is the same wording used by the La Croix article from yesterday. In fact, if one was to compare the two articles, one would see many similarities. I’m willing to bet the background from this article did not come a competant source, but from the La Croix article.

  13. Podatus says:

    OK, the “trination trick” — possible.

    But lets be careful about saying, “THE bishops” will do this or that. Remember that here in America we have bishops such as Burke, Finn, Olmstead, Carlson, etc. and many more who will figure that, if it is the Holy Father’s will, they will comply. There will be others . . . but there number is slowly, but surely diminishing. If you have one of these as your bishop, I know, I know . . . not fast enough.

    This motu proprio will be a step forward.

    But no one piece of legislation can work total miracles. (Remember even the 1988 Indult did produce fruits – at least two major Trid orders of priests and a respectable number of weekly Masses)

    I fully expect many more good things to happen.

  14. Stu says:

    I think the Pope is too smart to issue another Ecclesia Dei.

    Indeed. I personally think he truly is the wisest man in the world.
    (Of course, he does has some help from above.) :)

  15. Mark Jacobson says:

    I, for one, am catiously hopeful for Boston, since our bishop was one of those attending the MP meeting with the Pope. I have to believe that meeting with the Holy Father on this subject, a subject we know is very dear to his heart, would have a positive impact on the bishops with whom he spoke. It will be interesting to see if Cardinal Sean says anything about the meeting in his blog tomorrow (http://www.cardinalseansblog.org). He hasn’t been very open to freeing up the Traditional Mass before, but we have all had conversion experiences as we struggle for perfection…

  16. RBrown says:

    Podatus is right. Now the faithful or priest can petition Ecclesia Dei, but we see what that does…
    Comment by Hammerbrecher

    That is the present situation.

  17. RBrown says:

    This is just what said yesterday! The bishop will always have the last word! Nothing will change, and you will hear from the bishop.

    Thank you so very much for your kind letter requesting the TLM. After much prayer and reflection WE have decided not to grant your request. Please be assure of OUR prayers for you.”
    Comment by Serafino

    If nothing changes, then the document is worthless–and the schism continues.

  18. RBrown says:

    Let me amend that: “and the schism continues” should be “and the SSPX, not in schism but nevertheless rejecting the contemporary authority of the Holy See, will continue in its independence.”

  19. schoolman says:

    I could be misreading this, however, it seems to me as if the content of the first paragraph is from the interviewer providing context for his question, etc. — including the speculation on the “last word” etc. The second paragraph is the response from the Cardinal. who gives the primary reasons for the MP. I don’t see anything to be alarmed about in the Cardinal’s response.

  20. Cerimoniere says:

    There’s a very illuminating post at Rorate Caeli on this issue, clarifying exactly what the Cardinal said, and it is much more hopeful than this misleading report would lead us to believe.

  21. Henry Edwards says:

    There’s a very illuminating post at Rorate Caeli on this issue, clarifying exactly what the Cardinal said

    In short:

    The Cardinal, therefore, never said that the bishops will have “the last word”.

    Seems to me that some folks here need to relax and take a deep breath. Maybe even get a good night’s sleep.

  22. Royce says:

    “I think the pope is too smart to issue another Ecclesia Dei.”

    Or another Jubilate Deo, which seems to me to be the real danger here.

    In the words of the Count of Monte Cristo, “Wait and hope!”

  23. Brian says:

    Comment by Henry Edwards: “Seems to me that some folks here need to relax and take a deep breath. Maybe even get a good night’s sleep.”

    There is definitely wisdom in your advice!

    On the other hand, the bishops have the direct ear of the pope, and can express their concerns about the Motu Proprio via many official and less-than-official channels.

    The only consistent real-time voice that the laity and rank and file priests have available at present is the internet.

    One article today stated that “minor changes” could still be made to the document. If this is the case, we need to make our voices heard, now, loudly and unequivocally.

  24. swmichigancatholic says:

    Easy, folks. The jockeying has begun. The news media wants to put their own face on this just as much as the bishops do. It’s bull**** season. We had the same thing right after the publication of the Catechism of the Catholic church and numerous other things as well. You should be used to it by now.

    No one (including the media and the bishops) should forget that the whole thing will be published soon, so any farfetched nonsense will be refuted at that time, and we’ll be able to see the publication date. What it is, it is. It’s not going to be worse than what we have now.

  25. swmichigancatholic says:

    Worse for us that is. I can imagine it being a lot worse for some bishops if they engage in Cardinal McCarrick type funniness with the document.

    This might turn out to be an interesting summer.