WDTPRS NEWS ALERT! ACTION NEEDED! AOL POLL on Motu Proprio

A little while ago I posted a link to the horrible Minneapolis Star-Tribune which ran a poll about whether or not the older form of Mass should be made more widely available. Remember the poll results?

Now there is a poll on AOL about the MP, but also one on the Church!!

LOYAL READERS!   WDTPRSers!
CLICK HERE TO GO VOTE!
You have your marching orders.

The AOL poll is attached to a story written by the same Nicole Windfield of AP who wrote about the MP yesterday, quoting yours truly.  I was on the phone with her for a while pre-Motu Morning. In today’s AP piece on AOL, "Melissa Eddy in Berlin and Angela Charlton in Paris contributed to this report."
Here are some of the memorable bits of this AP article.   Right off the bat, enjoy the title!  (My emphases and comments).  

Pope Angers Jews, Liberals With Rite
Conservatives Rejoice as Pontiff Revives Old Latin Mass
By NICOLE WINFIELD,
AP
Posted: 2007-07-07 23:16:06
VATICAN CITY (July 7) – Pope Benedict XVI on Saturday removed restrictions on celebrating the old Latin Mass, reviving a rite that was all but swept away by the liberalizing reforms of the Second Vatican Council.  [Sounds about right.]
The decision, a victory for traditional, conservative Roman Catholics, came over the objections of liberal-minded Catholics and angered Jews [Hmmm… the enemy of my enemy is my friend?] because the Tridentine Mass contains a prayer for their conversion. [Dear EVERYONE: When hs the Church not prayed for coversion…. everyone’s conversion, even ongoing conversion of the converted?  The Church knews herself to be always reformanda… needing reform.  Why should Christians, who believe Jesus is God, and who find joy in believing that Jesus is God, and wanting all people everywhere to be joyful, not also want all people to be joyful in believing that Jesus is God?  And when we pray, do we not pray most intently for those closest to us?  Is it so unreasonable to pray that Jews be converted when we pray for our own ongoing conversion to a deeper faith in Christ?  I see that prayer as a sign of the Church’s love, an opening of a door more.]

The document upset Jews, since the Tridentine rite contains a prayer on Good Friday of Easter Week calling for their conversion. The Anti-Defamation League called the move a "body blow to Catholic-Jewish relations," the Jewish news agency JTA reported. [Sounds like All-Star Wrestling.]
The Simon Wiesenthal Center urged Benedict to publicly point out that such phrases "are now entirely contrary to the teaching of the church."  [But are they?  I don’t think so.  Also, I wonder if these statements are coming from devout, practicing Jews.  I don’t know and won’t speculate.  We know there are lots of "cultural Catholics" who make absurd calls upon the Church to do absurd and impossible things.  It is not a great leap to imagine that less than observant Jews might do what less than observant Catholics do: make impossible claims from the mistaken view that Catholics don’t have fixed beliefs or the right to express them in their integrity.]

The old rite differs significantly from the New Mass. In addition to the Latin, the prayers [not all] and readings are different, and the priest faces the altar, to be seen as leading the faithful in prayer.  [YES! YES! YES!  WAY TO GO NICOLE!!!!   KUDOS FOR THE WRITER!  SHE GOT IT RIGHT!  *high five the writer*]

The document "doesn’t impose any return to the past, it doesn’t mean any weakening of the authority of the council nor the authority and responsibility of bishops," Vatican spokesman Rev. Federico Lombardi said.
However, Cardinal Jean-Pierre Ricard, the head of the French bishops’ conference, warned that the move will create divisions. "There will be resistance from both sides," he told Le Monde.
The liberal lay church group We Are Church [Remember what I said about about less than observant Catholics who make absurd and impossible demands?] said that the move represented a step back from Vatican II and could set an even more conservative direction for the church. It warned of a "new split within many parishes, diocese and finally the entire Roman Catholic Church."
"It is to be feared that while it appears to only be about the old Mass, in reality it is an attempt to set the Catholic Church on a new old course," the group said. [These angry folks are so clueless as to defy further comments.  They need to read this blog.]
Ricard, speaking on France-Info radio Saturday, said the move does not mean the entire church is becoming more fundamentalist. "Just because you have in a family a cousin who is a bit different, whom you tolerate and accept, doesn’t mean that the whole family adopts his positions or his way of life," he said.  [ROFL!!  This is GREAT!   Remember my "nutty aunt in the attic" description?  I almost… almost chose "idiot cousin" instead!   GMTA, n’est-ce pas?]
The document was welcomed by traditional Catholics who remained in good standing with Rome but simply preferred the Tridentine liturgy and have long complained that bishops had been stingy [yep] in allowing it, said Michael Dunnigan, chairman of Una Voce America, the largest lay organization in the United States dedicated to promoting wider access to the traditional Mass.
"The traditional Mass is a true a gem of the church’s heritage, and the Holy Father has taken the most important step toward making it available to many more of the faithful," he said.  [GOOD WORK!   Ends on a high note.]
Associated Press writers Melissa Eddy in Berlin and Angela Charlton in Paris contributed to this report.


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15 Responses to WDTPRS NEWS ALERT! ACTION NEEDED! AOL POLL on Motu Proprio

  1. Brian Day says:

    Done.
    At the time of my vote, a slight lead in favor of the Pope’s action. As for the second question, there was a significant lead of people who disapprove of the Church.

    Some of the anti-Catholic bigotry in the comments were amazing.

  2. swmichigancatholic says:

    No one is making everyone go to the Pauline Latin or the Johnine mass. The regular English Pauline mass (which is the usual one) is still available. Is this AP reporter illiterate?

  3. Karen Russell says:

    I found this poll and voted earlier. The lead was pretty narrow at that time.

  4. RichR says:

    I am hoping that we do not pin too much on hoe “the world” preceives this. Those Catholics who are on the fence will be more swayed by attending a TLM than these polls. Devout participants, devout priests, and fraternal charity will be our best weapons against any smear tactics. Polls are a side issue.

    Fr Z, thanks for the commentary. So many things are subtle, but you manage to catch it.

  5. RichR says:

    Man, my spelling is messed up. Sorry.

    P.S. The only public opinion poll taken in the Bible came back with the verdict, “Crucify Him.” Never put too much faith in these things.

  6. Richard says:

    The liberal lay church group We Are Church said that the move represented a step back from Vatican II and could set an even more conservative direction for the church. It warned of a “new split within many parishes, diocese and finally the entire Roman Catholic Church.”

    “It is to be feared that while it appears to only be about the old Mass, in reality it is an attempt to set the Catholic Church on a new old course,” the group said.

    This stuff really writes itself now, doesn’t it?

    The numbers don’t shock me. Probably even more than 48% of AOL’s users believe in the Priory of Sion.

    The numbers voting are massive, so I am afraid it will be tough for us to make a big dent in the results. But I did my part…

  7. Richard says:

    P.S. The only public opinion poll taken in the Bible came back with the verdict, “Crucify Him.”

    LOL

  8. DoB says:

    Now this is an interesting poll.
    The number of people who support the opening up of the classical rite 52% versus 48% against.
    What’s your opinion of the Catholic Church 35% positive versus 41% negative.

    I would love to know the correlation between the people who voted for an opening up of the older mass and their opinion of the Church.

    Fr.Z. If we could get our hands on the data behind this poll we could gleen many insights. I’d be happy to do the number crunching. What are the chances, any strings you can pull? All we need to identify is how an individual voted on each question.

    By the way thanks for the Te Deum podcast. It was splendid.

  9. Jordan Potter says:

    Well, yesterday was my wife’s birthday, and Summorum Pontificum,/i> is probably one of the nicest birthday presents my wife has ever received.

    Of course, since we were so busy with the birthday celebrations, I couldn’t post any comments yesterday. I did, of course, print off a copy of the motu proprio so we could read it. It’s just wonderful — better than I could have hoped for, and it seems all the negative rumors and all the fears running up to the release of the motu proprio are false, even the ones generated by Rocco “Scoop the Pope” Palmo.

    As for the way this news is being reported in the media, and the way certain quarters are receiving the news, I have this anecdote from our parish DRE: a man came in yesterday muttering, “So, did you hear the news? The church is going to force us all to pray to God in a language we can’t understand.” He insisted that’s what he heard on the news. But then this is the same guy who previously had asked this DRE to help him find the “Render unto Caesar” text so his kid could write an essay at his Catholic school claiming that “Render unto Caesar” means Church and State must be kept completely separate. He was insensible to the DREs explanations that Jesus’ words mean nothing of the sort.

  10. Jordan Potter says:

    Whoops, I did the italics wrote in my post. Fr. Z, could you delete the first comment and keep this one instead?

    ****

    Well, yesterday was my wife’s birthday, and Summorum Pontificum is probably one of the nicest birthday presents my wife has ever received.

    Of course, since we were so busy with the birthday celebrations, I couldn’t post any comments yesterday. I did, of course, print off a copy of the motu proprio so we could read it. It’s just wonderful—better than I could have hoped for, and it seems all the negative rumors and all the fears running up to the release of the motu proprio are false, even the ones generated by Rocco “Scoop the Pope” Palmo.

    As for the way this news is being reported in the media, and the way certain quarters are receiving the news, I have this anecdote from our parish DRE: a man came in yesterday muttering, “So, did you hear the news? The church is going to force us all to pray to God in a language we can’t understand.” He insisted that’s what he heard on the news. But then this is the same guy who previously had asked this DRE to help him find the “Render unto Caesar” text so his kid could write an essay at his Catholic school claiming that “Render unto Caesar” means Church and State must be kept completely separate. He was insensible to the DREs explanations that Jesus’ words mean nothing of the sort.

  11. Jordan Potter says:

    Whoops, I did the italics wrong in my post. Fr. Z, could you delete the first comment and keep this one instead?

    ****

    Well, yesterday was my wife’s birthday, and Summorum Pontificum is probably one of the nicest birthday presents my wife has ever received.

    Of course, since we were so busy with the birthday celebrations, I couldn’t post any comments yesterday. I did, of course, print off a copy of the motu proprio so we could read it. It’s just wonderful—better than I could have hoped for, and it seems all the negative rumors and all the fears running up to the release of the motu proprio are false, even the ones generated by Rocco “Scoop the Pope” Palmo.

    As for the way this news is being reported in the media, and the way certain quarters are receiving the news, I have this anecdote from our parish DRE: a man came in yesterday muttering, “So, did you hear the news? The church is going to force us all to pray to God in a language we can’t understand.” He insisted that’s what he heard on the news. But then this is the same guy who previously had asked this DRE to help him find the “Render unto Caesar” text so his kid could write an essay at his Catholic school claiming that “Render unto Caesar” means Church and State must be kept completely separate. He was insensible to the DRE’s explanations that Jesus’ words mean nothing of the sort.

  12. Jon says:

    Jordan,

    “Well, yesterday was my wife’s birthday, and Summorum Pontificum, is probably one of the nicest birthday presents my wife has ever received.”

    Hah! I’ve got you beat. September 14th is MY wife’s birthday!…And it’s gonna be a humdinger!

  13. Kris says:

    Why is it that hardly ever, if ever, the authors/writers/commentators about the evolution of what has occurred immediately after and since VII, and/or now about this elegant presentation by Pope Benedict of how to finally address the truth about the hi-jacking that went on, have actually read/acquainted themselves/studied the real documents of VII and just what was intended???? People polled who seem to comfortably resist the vertical demands of God’s place vs theirs can only reply with “I’m more comfortable with vernacular and I don’t see why this pope is going backwards”. They have never cared to find out what was authentically intended. They have easily accepted being left ignorant and wanting by their willingness to bury for good all the tradition/life/sacrifices/reality of anything that occurred before the 60s. Why should anyone of serious faith even be asked to pay attention to them? The only excuse for the truly poor things is that they’ve been insidiously well educated in the “camps” (worship spaces) for the past 4 decades. The needles on their compasses that they have been using to get their moral bearings all these years seem to be still spinning wildly. Why else are they now mixing in new age and neo paganism and most seem to think it’s a “good thing”?….. Because of that very fact of their jettisoning the whole foundation of what went before in the Body of Christ.

  14. Atlantic says:

    I wanted to see what the ADL had to say in full, but the link to their news release, titled “ADL Calls Vatican Prayer for Conversion of Jews ‘A Theological Setback’ and ‘A Body Blow to Catholic-Jewish Relations’” is not working right now. It’s not cached on Google, either.

    http://www.adl.org/PresRele/breaking_news.asp

    I am not certain of the levels of observance of these Jewish groups, but I do believe that the ADL has a reputation as mostly secular, whereas I found an article that says that the leadership of the Simon Wiesenthal Center are mostly frum (observant).

    I have also just discovered that Abe Foxman of the ADL is allegedly a baptised Catholic! During WW2, his parents put him with their Polish Catholic nanny who had him baptised and raised him as a Catholic until he was 3 or 4. Apparently she didn’t want to give him up when the parents came back – she actually lived with the family again for a time, and later there was a court battle and young Foxman was kidnapped back and forth between them. Er…wow!

  15. Atlantic says:

    Also, one detail (which my favourite Jewish Catholic points out to me every Good Friday) – the order of prayers in the current Good Friday intercessions is Church, Pope, Catholic clergy and laity, catechumens, non-Catholic Christians, Jews, non-Christians, atheists. If (as seems likely), we’re working outward from the “centre”, the Jews ‘outrank’ every other sort of non-Christian. I can’t find the full text of the 1962 intercessions, but if the wiki article is anywhere near accurate, the order was pretty much the same: the Jews come after heretics and schismatics, but before the pagans – and while the Jews are described as having a veil on their hearts, the pagans are described as having iniquity in their hearts!

    I am quite philosemitic, but right now I want to shake a few of them and say, “Look. We believe that everyone is called to conversion and unity with the Catholic Church. If we didn’t pray for your conversion, that would be equivalent to saying that you are either not human, or irrevocably damned, or both. Is that what you really want?”