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Holy Smoke: Pope wants the Latin Mass everywhere
Damien Thompson at Holy Smoke on the Daily Telegraph, snarks some English bishops … again.
This seems to be a follow up on what we posted here, namely that Card. Castillon Hoyos is saying that the Holy Father wants the older form of Mass to be in parishes and that priests shouldn’t wait for requests (and therefore don’t have to wait for requests).
Pope wants the Latin Mass everywhere
Posted by Damian Thompson on 05 May 2008 at 17:54
Tags: Catholicism, Pope Benedict, Latin Mass
Bishops Hollis and Conry, if you have ever thought of jumping ship to the C of E, now might a good time to do so. According to a senior Vatican cardinal, Pope Benedict wants the old Latin Mass celebrated in parishes even where the people have not asked for it.
English bishops take note: this is what the Mass looks like
Well! That will certainly drive a horse and cart through the English bishops’ shameful attempts to ignore Summorum Pontificum, last year’s papal letter removing their power to block the 1962 (Tridentine) Missal.
According to the Catholic News Agency, Cardinal Dario Castrillon Hoyos, head of the Pontifical Commission
Ecclesia Dei, let the cat out of the bag in an interview for a DVD instructing priests on how to celebrate the Extraordinary Form.
Here’s the money quote: “The cardinal said that parishes and priests should make available the Extraordinary Form so that ‘everyone may have access to this treasure of the ancient liturgy of the Church’. He also stressed that, ‘even if it is not specifically asked for, or requested’ it should be provided. Interestingly, he added that the Pope wants this Mass to become normal in parishes, so that ‘young communities can also become familiar with this rite’.”
(Incidentally, I can think of one parish that NEVER celebrates the old Mass on Sundays. It’s called Westminster Cathedral. Perhaps Cardinal Castrillon Hoyos might raise the subject when he visits it in June.)
The idea of young people discovering the ancient Mass, said entirely in Latin with zero opportunity for congregational showing-off, will truly horrify with-it bishops and their Sandalista worship leaders. And what will Bobbie (“Cry me a river”) Mickens have to say?
I do wonder, however, whether the Pope realises that if he wants the classical Mass celebrated widely in this country he will have to make one extra provision. New bishops. Lots of them. And fast. [His Hermeneuticalness for Westminster!]
Posted by Damian Thompson on 05 May 2008 at 17:54
Holy Smoke: Pope wants the Latin Mass everywhere
Not if the Liberal factions of the Church have anything to do about it!
Comment by Le Renard — 5 May 2008 @ 12:22 pmThey’ll render this prerogative null and void throughout all the U.S. as they have in our diocese!
“sandalista” – love it!
Comment by Father Bartoloma — 5 May 2008 @ 12:24 pmGreat picture. Credo, Gloria, preface? Or something else altogether?
Comment by Peter — 5 May 2008 @ 12:25 pmIt’s null and void in my diocese, too, so I’m watching this latest move with great interest. There was a lot of comment here earlier about the problems with the “request from a stable group,” and while we fussed about possibly retranslating or rephrasing it – the Pope simply went and got rid of it! Problem solved. It’s going to be much, much harder for these rebellious bishops now.
Comment by EDG — 5 May 2008 @ 12:28 pmSo let the Pope celebrate the Extraordinary form himself in his own basilica for all to see. I mean, if this is what he wants in the parishes …
Comment by Brian Sudlow — 5 May 2008 @ 12:35 pmBrian: That would indeed resolve a lot of problems.
Comment by Fr. John Zuhlsdorf — 5 May 2008 @ 12:38 pmIt’s null and void in my diocese, too, so I’m watching this latest move with great interest.
One thing I know for sure is that if it’s not “PROTESTANT” Catholicism, it is NOT acceptable.
The American catholic Mass MUST comprise of Rock ‘n’ Roll Worship Music, feet-stomping, drum-beating, liturgical dances, and what not in order to be considered valid in these here United States!
The message here folks: “ROME GO HOME!”
Comment by Le Renard — 5 May 2008 @ 12:46 pmWhat Brian said above goes right to the point. To add to that, is the diocese of Rome going to immediately/soon
Comment by Robert L — 5 May 2008 @ 1:05 pmgoing to have the ancient Mass said in All of it’s parishes? Is the Vatican going to keep up the mantra of
do as I say, not as I do. There was a prime oppurtunity to have said the old Mass at St Patrick’s two weekds ago,
but that never happened. If Card Stickler got the crowd back in 96’, I am sure the turnout here would have
exceeded it! Benedict XVI just had to instruct the sacristan to borrow the Missal, altar cards, etc from
St Agnes or other indult/motu site, and they would be good to go. Even a low Mass would not take much preparation.
Perhaps they would have been able to do more. Human respect does not belong in the priesthood, among other
things. Faithfulness to scripture, tradition and every doctrine of the faith does.
The golden opportunity is at hand for the Holy Father to offer the TLM publicly, regularly…and to lead by concrete example.
The Holy Father has insisted, for example, that interest in the TLM exists among young Catholics. We read and hear that Catholics supposedly thirst for Traditional.
We are asked to believe that the people, so to speak, are on the Holy Father’s side regarding the TLM and Holy Tradition.
Therefore, Pope Benedict XVI should seize the opportunity to promote the Traditional Latin Mass to the hilt to lift the (Latin) Church from Her decades-old crisis of faith and liturgical collapse.
Perhaps a Catholic VIP-type could organize a petition signed by millions of Catholics designed to ask the Holy Father to offer the TLM publicly and regularly.
Pax.
Comment by Tom — 5 May 2008 @ 1:41 pmIt seems that sections of the English clergy have always been a problem.
I spotted this statement about Cardinal Wiseman (the first Archbishop of Westminster, 1850 – 1865):
“Wiseman found himself steadily opposed by a minority among his own clergy, who disliked his ultramontane ideas and his “Romanizing and innovating zeal,” especially in regard to the introduction of sacred images into the churches and the use of devotions to the Blessed Virgin and the Blessed Sacrament”
(OK, it’s from Wiki, so not very authorititive; it would be interesting if anyone could provide a better source along the same lines)
Comment by Richard T — 5 May 2008 @ 1:44 pmYes, I am curious about where in the Roman Mass that picture
was taken. We Dominicans do extend our arms after the
consectration, but not that far.
But, perhaps he is just enthusiastic about the signs of the
Comment by Fr. Augustine Thompson O.P. — 5 May 2008 @ 2:18 pmtimes. Good for him.
Hooray for Darío Cardinal Castrilló Hoyos! His interpretation of Section 1 of Article 1 of S.P. is exactly what I have been insisting on from the outset. That Section is not restrictive. While it calls upon priests accept the petitions of faithful for the old Mass, nowhere does it say that such requests must be received before a parish priest may proceed. A parish priest, given Article 1 of S.P., the indult he has from his bishop to schedule parochial Masses, and Canon 837.1, can proceed entirely on his own authority. These words of the Cardinal suggest, I think, what might be coming in the long-awaited clarification of S.P. from the P.C.E.D. Let’s pray so!
Given all the resistance to S.P. among some bishops, it might be opportune now for the Pope to rule that, in addition to the provisions of S.P., every diocese must have an every-Sunday Mass in the Traditional Roman Rite if thirty or more faithful petition for this.
P.K.T.P.
Comment by Peter Karl T. Perkins — 5 May 2008 @ 2:20 pmWhile the French bishops have lied the faithfuls in claiming for years that the Tridentine Mass was forbidden since VatII, what Benedict XVI said was wrong, it is now difficult if not impossible to find only a few people to be interested in it. Our holy parish priest told me that he was training to say this mass in the event that 5 people at least would ask him. Until now this number could not be met.
Comment by Jacques — 5 May 2008 @ 2:48 pmI am extremely pessimistic.
Fr. Thomson,
Perhaps the “Sursum corda”?
Comment by mpm — 5 May 2008 @ 2:50 pmYes, I am curious about where in the Roman Mass that picture
was taken.
Fr. Thompson, Te igitur perhaps?
Comment by Argent — 5 May 2008 @ 3:09 pmThe picture may be from the Ambrosian rite.
Comment by Tom — 5 May 2008 @ 3:24 pmPope wants the Latin Mass everywhere
Posted by Damian Thompson on 05 May 2008 at 17:54
Tags: Catholicism, Pope Benedict, Latin Mass
Bishops Hollis and Conry, if you have ever thought of jumping ship to the C of E, now might a good time to do so. According to a senior Vatican cardinal, Pope Benedict wants the old Latin Mass celebrated in parishes even where the people have not asked for it.
Fr. Augustine Thompson O.P. writes: Yes, I am curious about where in the Roman Mass that picture
was taken. We Dominicans do extend our arms after the
consectration, but not that far.
But, perhaps he is just enthusiastic about the signs of the
times. Good for him.
I take it they’re not related.
Comment by Le Renard — 5 May 2008 @ 3:35 pmPerhaps this is a reaction to what the Holy Father saw in Washington.
Comment by Rob — 5 May 2008 @ 4:00 pmI pray for that to be true, this is very needed everywhere, everyone must know bishop has no power to stop TLM - in fact they should be charged with encouraging it. I’ve heard from my friends in Silesia, Poland that local bishop there, Zimon, has recently explicitly prohibited TLM from being offered in a church in Piekary, even though it was already advertised to the faithful. Bishop Zimon reprimanded the pastor of the church and punished the priest who was to celebrate the TLM by moving him to another parish imediatelly. Apparently he believes Summorum Pontificum doesn’t apply to him or his diocese. Outcry from the faithful followed – but this case is very typical I’m afraid. We need indeed new bishops – or a reneval of those already in place. It can happen if we pray hard enough.
Comment by Andy — 5 May 2008 @ 4:13 pmI would not be suprised if on Pentecost the Holy Father celebrates the Mass according to the 62 Missal
Comment by Joe of St. ThĂ©rèse — 5 May 2008 @ 4:14 pmJacques,
Do not be discouraged. If over 400 could be found for a late Sunday afternoon Mass in the middle of the “bible-belt” here in the US, I am confident that much more will be found in France.
Comment by Michael — 5 May 2008 @ 4:36 pmThe Holy Father desires that the TLM be offered everywhere?
What happened to the Pope’s incredibly slooooow brick-by-brick Marshall Plan?
If Mr. Thompson’s report is correct, then we’re talking about the Holy Father having instituted a fast-moving liturgical revolution.
Anyway…fewer than 12 months ago, the Holy Father declared the following:
“The use of the old Missal presupposes a certain degree of liturgical formation and some knowledge of the Latin language; neither of these is found very often.”
I doubt that since he uttered the above words that the situation described by His Holiness has changed appreciably.
Unless the Pope promotes the TLM to the hilt, which includes his offering the TLM regularly, I doubt that the TLM will be offered in parishes everywhere.
Pax.
Comment by Tom — 5 May 2008 @ 4:53 pm“Not if the Liberal factions of the Church have anything to do about it!
They’ll render this prerogative null and void throughout all the U.S. as they have in our diocese!”
I have found that reluctance to promote the TLM is also found among conservative factions.
Priests throughout my diocese fall into the “conservative” category…yet Summorum Pontificum is a dead letter here.
The conservative priests at my parish are not interested in promoting the TLM.
Pax.
Comment by Tom — 5 May 2008 @ 5:18 pmI don’t think there’s anything wrong with that Tom. For me the TLM and Summorum Pontificum is merely a means to an end, not the end point itself. The main purpose of more celebrations of the TLM is cross-pollination which leads to more reverent and worthy celebrations of the Novus Ordo and maybe even the reform of the Novus Ordo missal.
That is I believe the attitude taken by the vast majority of the more conservative priests.
Comment by Justin — 5 May 2008 @ 5:59 pmWhat we have been seeing all along are suggestions. What we need are clear directives, with clear repercussions if those directives are not followed, and then some repercussive actions when those directives are not followed. Not that I necessarily want to see this, but if a few dissenting bishops were hung out