The Liguorian Magazine on Latin liturgy

An alert reader sent this article from The Liguorian with this interesting comment:

"A TLM article in a "mainstream" Catholic publication published by the Redemptorists may measure the pace of the Benedictine reform."

Let’s have a look with my emphases and comments.

December 2008 Liguorian

THE LATIN REVIVAL
WHICH WAY FORWARD?

by Diana M. Amadeo

[ Top page 30 photo shows Fr. John Arthur Orr elevating the chalice at St. John Neumann Church (Knoxville, TN), 16th Sunday after Pentecost, 16 September 2007. Page 31 top right photo shows deacon Fr. David Carter (right, chanting gospel) and subdeacon Fr. Patrick Resen (left, holding Evangelium) at solemn high Mass at Holy Ghost Church (Knoxville, TN), 4th Sunday after Easter, 20 April 2008. ]

My parents, nine siblings, and I went to daily Mass at St. Michael’s, a tiny, white clapboard church in Carney, Iowa. On warm days, we sat in the front row, with the window beside us wide open. Often the priest, speaking Latin with his back to us, had to compete with the cows mooing in the pasture just outside the window. Two of my brothers served Mass (girls and women were not allowed on the altar at that time). Females of all ages clutched rosaries as they knelt at the altar rail awaiting Communion. Back then, the closest girls could get to participating was to conduct their own service at home by smashing bread into perfect little circle wafers. [So far, we are off to a rocky start.  My observation is, first, "data" is not the plural of "anecdote".  Also, I wonder if there is an underlying assumption that old women are going to be against Latin because of the way they were "oppressed"?]

Many changes have occurred since then. When our parish priest was allowed [See why I caught an hostile attitude about the Church?  Now they are "allowed" and before they were probably really longing to "face the people", but they weren’t "allowed" to.] to turn around and face us, the new altar table he stood at was built by my father. The Second Vatican Council brought women to the altar, and my mother became a lector [Actually not a lector in an official sense.  Only males can be Lectors.] and eucharistic minister. [Actually not.  Only bishops, priests and deacons are "Eucharistic ministers".] Unfortunately, at that time priests began to leave the Church in droves. Our beloved St. Michael’s closed in lieu of a megachurch in Ankeny. Even Carney ceased to exist as Des Moines and Ankeny grew and swallowed up the tiny town. As time marched on, my daughter became an altar server.           

We survived [note the list that follows…] plaid uniforms, parochial school, nuns with rulers, Limbo, purgatory, indulgences, infallibility, Vatican councils, confession, Saint Christopher’s demotion, relics of the saints, and fish sticks on Friday. But on the surface, nothing separated us more from our Protestant brothers and sisters than the Latin Mass (Tridentine rite). [Nothing separated us from the Protestants other than the older Mass?  Interesting comment.] It had a mystical quality, made us all bilingual, and allowed us to sing the ancient carols like pros. We were devout and faithful.  [This is a really interesting flow of ideas.  No?]

ET HOC GENUS OMNE

"And all that sort of thing."

Two of my three children took Latin in high school. Then it was deemed a dead language and discontinued. Vatican II, with its liberalizing reforms, swept away the Latin Mass. Some parishioners were devastated. I took it all in stride. Didn’t the Baltimore Catechism stress that we were to blindly obey all rules and regulations of the Church? Didn’t that include changes too?  [I would like the citation for that.  Consider that the entire schema of the Baltimore Catechism was consummately reasonable.  It helped the student think and see the connections of concepts even as it taught material through memorization.  Does the BC anywhere say in any volume that we must obey "blindly"?]

Overnight, the members of the one true Church were no longer just Roman Catholics. We had divided into traditional conservative Roman Catholics and liberal-minded Catholics. Fortunately, some of us manage to keep a foot on each side, playing it safe and avoiding the near occasion of sin.  [Isn’t that wonderful.]

GRATIAS AGIMUS DOMINO DEO NOSTRO

"Let us give thanks to the Lord our God."

Many clergy within the Church were also upset with the change to the vernacular. Ultratraditionalist [Not just "traditionalist" but an "ultra".] Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, now deceased, was at odds with the Vatican, and Pope John Paul II particularly, concerning the loss of the Latin Mass. Lefebvre was excommunicated in 1988 after consecrating four bishops without Rome’s consent. After that, the Tridentine Mass went mostly underground but persisted around the world. [HA!  No.  1988 is when the late Holy Father issued Ecclesia Dei adflicta.]

PAUPERTAS OMNIUM ARTIUM REPERTRIX [Okay… I think this salting of Latin through the article is getting cutesy.]

"Poverty is the inventor of all the arts."

But things are changing once again, and we are heading back to the future. In July 2007, Pope Benedict XVI removed restrictions on celebrating the Old Latin Mass. Benedict issued a document authorizing parish priests to celebrate the Tridentine rite if a "stable group of faithful" requests it. [And even if they don’t, really.] Lefebvre’s group is pleased and hopes this will lead to more traditional changes.

DONEC ERIS FELIX MULTOS NUMERABIS AMICOS

As long as you are fortunate, you will have many friends."

There are a few problems with this backtracking, [Notice the assumption that this is backtracking.] however. I spoke with my parish-priest friends. The Second Vatican Council was held in the 1960s. Many priests ordained after Vatican 11 were not required to learn Latin. [Actually, they were "required".  The requirements were ignored.] Many of the elder priests have long forgotten it. The majority of Catholic priests across the country are stretched so thin because of the shortage that a service in another language just isn’t feasible.

ITE, MISSA EST

"Go, you are dismissed."

My Jewish friends aren’t too happy, either, since the traditional Latin Mass contains a prayer for their conversion. I try to be a good Catholic role model and listen to both sides of the issue.  [Huh?]

DOMINUS VOBISCUM

"The Lord be with you."

ET CUM SPIRITU TUO "And with your spirit."

It’s true that the Latin Mass adds mystery and romance [I don’t think this writer is using the word "mystery" in the sense that any person who is well-read in liturgical matters.] to the celebration of the Eucharist, but these are not pre-Vatican II days when churches were places of silence and meditation. Churches now tend to be alive and vibrant with laughter, conversation, and singing. Silence is beautiful and meditation good for the soul, but will today’s congregation embrace the quiet lilt of a Latin service? Can we embrace the Lord on a higher dimension with a language most cannot understand? [Obviously the writer doesn’t think so.  The writer now thinks that noisy churches are the way it should be.]

For now, I’ll keep one foot on each of the traditional/liberal sides and not entertain an opinion. ["tepid" I think is the other way of describing this.] Let’s just see how it goes.                               

VIVAMUS ATQUE AMEMUS

"Let us live and let us love."

Diana Amadeo is a freelance writer from Merrimack, New Hampshire. Her book Holy Friend: A Child’s Guide to American Saints is a 2006 Catholic Press Association award winner.

Okay… I believe we have to stay positive and return to the comment at the top!

"A TLM article in a "mainstream" Catholic publication published by the Redemptorists may measure the pace of the Benedictine reform."

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56 Responses to The Liguorian Magazine on Latin liturgy

  1. chironomo says:

    Written by one of those “daring” types who is willing to walk up to the edge of the diving board, but afraid to jump into the pool. Instead, they stand there and talk about how exhilarating it is to stand at the end of the board, and why that is so much better than jumping in….

  2. “Ha”, “Cutsey” “Isn’t that wonderful?” Comments by you that strike me as unkind, and I hesitate to say un-Christian. [Ha!]
    The writer was speaking from the heart and deserves an opportunity to cite the changes in the church, as seen by this person. It may not pass muster with you, but a little understanding from a pastor would seem warranted. Or do you want comments from only those who “toe the line”?Thank you, Father.

  3. Jordanes says:

    My Jewish friends aren’t too happy, either, since the traditional Latin Mass contains a prayer for their conversion.

    The reformed Latin Mass contains a prayer for their conversion too: it’s just worded more indirectly and ambiguously.

    Anyway, I’ve read through issues of The Liguorian in the past, and decided that they need to stop taking St. Alphonsus’ name in vain. I doubt he and the folks at The Liguorian would agree all that much. This essay doesn’t change my opinion.

    David said: Comments by you that strike me as unkind, and I hesitate to say un-Christian.

    I think you should have hesitated a whole lot longer.

  4. sacredosinaeternum says:

    What a terrible article in a “Catholic” publication! I really pity the writer. I’m filled with joy to be able to make a few observations: 1) THIS priest has studied Latin in the seminary, and while busy, has made the time to learn Holy Mass in the Extraordinary Form and to celebrate it regularly. He’s in no way “ultratraditionalist” and yet rejoices in Pope Benedict’s plan of reforming the Sacred Liturgy! 2) I’m not sure where she is from, but here in this part of the country, our churches are NOT noisy and loud with laughter and conversation. The people are reverent and are actually quiet for Mass- both in the OF and EF!!! 3) I as a priest- and most of my people are happy to “take a side” in regard to Truth, i.e., they do not want to be spit out our Lord’s mouth. So, they follow- not blindly- but humbly and obediently the revelation of the Lord in His Church taught and lived by His Sacred Ministers. It seems that the author is still somewhere either in Iowa (childhood years) where she grew up or wherever else (rebellion years) she went afterwards. Does she know we’re about to enter the year 2009??? That there is a new program afoot???

  5. David Deavel says:

    I’m with Fr. Z on this one. The fact that an article like this is even there, ignorant and silly as it is in many places, is a sign of progress made and better times to come. It’s not even as if she attacked the old rite. The whole thing’s just very confusing to her. A little good catechesis on things like “mystery,” “participation,” etc., and she might be warm rather than lukewarm.

  6. Baron Korf says:

    My future mother-in-law got me a subscription a while back as a gift. Didn’t turn out too hot. I think most of the articles in there would give Fr Z’s good readers a coronary episode or two.

  7. little gal says:

    There have been several changes at Ligurian in the last year–including a new publisher. I noticed that more (generic) Christian articles had been appearing and I cancelled my subscription. I would agree with the other poster that there is a legimate question re: the Catholic identity of this publication.

  8. Chris says:

    My novus ordo parents ordered a year’s subscription to this magazine for my wife and me. It is horrible! There was so much near-heresy — and outright heresy — my head would spin reading it.

    I’ll stick to the Remnant and Latin Mass Magazine.

  9. Maureen says:

    I am trying to be positive — but she’s so dismissive! So reductive! So unconcerned with anybody else’s experiences or deprivation! I’m not even particularly traditional, and I’m mightily torqued.

    I bet that if she’d asked her kids or grandkids for their opinion, they’d have told her something. But let’s face it — people that age just don’t care how the rest of us have fared. Their way or the highway.

    Of course, I’m still torqued off about this week’s “The Advent service is over; go in peace.” At Sunday Mass! Twice in a row! (Dang it, I didn’t get out of bed at 6:30 in the morning so that I could practice and sing for _one_ freakin’ Advent service, much less two! It was MASS! Geez, if you’ve got to break centuries of tradition, can’t you at least be respectful enough to call it “the Divine Liturgy” or something?)

  10. Ben Whitworth says:

    The writer claims to have ‘survived … purgatory’. Interesting.

  11. Maureen says:

    That would be the “generic you” (as in my otherwise lovely parish priests, who are probably following some last annoying innovation by our soon-departing archbishop), not the “denizens of the combox you” or the “Fr. Z you”.

    I suspect this is some arcane compensation for the way we’re actually following the Vatican proclamation on not saying the Tetragrammaton in hymns. These things seem to come in pairs, sometimes.

  12. Mila says:

    A few years ago we subscribed to Ligourian for a year or so, after a visiting redemptorist missionary spoke at our parish. I was not impressed. I felt the faith was watered down in most articles, to say the least, and I did not renew the subscription when it expired. After that experience, I can’t say I’m surprised by this article.

  13. Kradcliffe says:

    I was under the impression that the prayer for the conversion of Jews is NOT in the Mass, but in the Good Friday Liturgy (not a Mass). Am I wrong about this? =

  14. dominic1962 says:

    Maybe this will sound “elitist”, but these “aw, shucks” type of articles simply should not be allowed to be printed. They are both misinformative and misleading and strongly biased. “Regular” happy, vibrant Joe and Jane Catholic just don’t need this Latin Mass stuff. While it was kinda nice back then in Nostalgialand, now its for wacko sad-sack uberTrads. It is mostly sap with no real attempt at actually getting into the meat of the issue. It reminds me of a similarly insipid article by a retired bishop.

    If one is that confused and ignorant about basic Catholic teaching, history, liturgy, etc., they need to seek out some competent guidance before spouting off publically in print.

  15. Romulus says:

    The writer claims to have ‘survived … purgatory’.

    Which she equates with superficial, transient markers of Catholic identity like plaid uniforms and ruler-wielding nuns. It’s a promiscuous reference to the sacred along with the profane, of defined dogmas along with cultural ephemera. The subtext is that the Church offers a rich and satisfying meal for those who like that kind of thing, but not (to paraphrase Evelyn Waugh) a cohesive faith with intransigent claims with eternal consequences. Merely a choice among many, not worth living for or dying for.

  16. Johnny Domer says:

    How is she keeping one foot in the traditional camp? By writing an article about the old Mass that offers only one possible (and outdated, she implies) benefit of the older form, while offering lots of criticisms of it and painting all the people who liked the older form pre-SP as near-schismatics?

  17. Flambeaux says:

    Romulus,

    Based on numerous conversations with my father and others who were hitting their teens when the new Missal was promulgated, your summation is accurate, whether you intended it as parody or not.

    My father and uncle have both commented that “before the Council, it was a sin to eat meat on Friday and then it wasn’t”. As far as they were concerned, everything was up for grabs at that point. The switch to the vernacular celebration of the Liturgy confirmed for many of them (teenagers at the time) that there was nothing “permanent” about the Faith. Certainly nothing worth dying for.

    Whether we like it or not, many of the folks who willingly embraced the post-Conciliar “Spirit of Vatican 2″, and many other who walked away entirely (like my relatives), do have that view of the Faith.

    Sometime before Vatican 2, in the US (and probably elsewhere) the transmission of the Faith stopped. The cultural accidents were there, but the life-giving essence, the grace, was missing.

  18. Cory says:

    “Vivamus atque amemus.”

    Typical of the liberal agenda. That’s the contradictory nature of the progressive movement. They want us to let them do their thing with no consequences, yet when we do our thing, they cry foul. Someone should tell them that there is a difference between living in the Truth and dying to sin.

  19. Mike says:

    This article shows the quintessence of post-Vatican II “Catholicism” – the dumb leading the dumber, with those in authority apparently happy to oblige them.

  20. Son of Trypho says:

    A couple of points from a non-Catholic perspective;

    The separation from Protestants bit; you often hear this being brought up but then you need to wonder, if the Latin Mass was an impediment why hasn’t there been any major reunions in the last 40 years? There has also been a massive investment in ecumenism and dialogue and yet what fruits have they produced?

    As to the bit about Jewish concerns; as a (technical) Jew, I still don’t know why what Jews think is of concern to Catholics? The bottom line is that Jews don’t believe in Jesus’ divinity and removing this prayer etc is not going to change that. All this is doing is pandering to “precious” people who don’t like the fact that you hold a different perspective from them. As I like to say to even my fellow Jews, deal with it. What I find also intriguing is that they don’t consider that espousing their own particular views could be offensive to faithful Christians i.e. denying the divinity of Christ etc.

    Overall, I think the Catholics need to seriously examine the benefits vs the costs that have been derived since the changes made after Vatican II and work out how to proceed.

    If I had to use an analogy look at a business. At the moment, any business that was operating in similar circumstances would have recognised that something has gone seriously wrong* and would be taking actions to rectify this before they go out of business. I would have thought when your biggest competitor (Islam) overtook you in customer loyalty (so to speak) that this would have been the wake-up call but it appears not. There seems to be a generation (50+ years of age) who are in many of the positions of authority in every aspect of the Church who refuse to analyse the situation objectively (perhaps they are emotionally invested in V2 as an aspect of personal identity?) and seem willing to run the business into the ground rather than acknowledge and rectify the problems.

    *I’m more that prepared as an outsider to give my views and discuss them as to what has gone wrong if anyone is interested but it is an aside to the topic.

  21. TNCath says:

    I’m afraid this article does a lot of harm because of the many serious errors made by the author that reflect the erroneous opinions of the “mainstream” Catholic in the pew who really thinks that Vatican II “did away” with the “Latin Mass” and all the “trappings” of the Church before Vatican II. Unfortunately, it is this perspective that what the average Catholic, with little to no background in Catholic liturgy, really thinks. Shameful, really.

  22. shadrach says:

    Aw shucks journalism and aw shucks Catholicism at (nearly) its worst.

  23. Mitch says:

    The writer seems very content with the way that the Catholic Church has now been shaped around the “newer more convenient way” to practice the faith. That is fine, it is a valid option, but the ugly, depressing picture that is coerced from the beginning is a sad testament to the article. I am sure not everyone paid attention to the cows, others were focused on other things. It is almost like saying “Mass was just so difficult back then and over the centuries we as humans lost our ability to understand it” Nonsense, tell it to the Saints of a long past era, when the more difficult the challenge, the more the study, and the greater the rewards..

  24. Henry says:

    I believe we have to stay positive and return to the comment at the top!

    I think Father Z’s instinct is correct, and that some of the negative comments in this thread may border on hypersensitive. (Though understandable, given what many of us have suffered for so long.)

    My perspective is the personal experience of helping in recent years to schedule traditional Latin Masses in four parish churches that had not seen one in almost 40 years.

    From this viewpoint, the mainstream publication of an article such as this seems not only a positive sign of what’s happening, but also a likely contribution to our continuing effort.

    The negative details in the article are side issues that will not affect the average pew-sitter. The total effect (if any) of the article will be positive. Irrespective of those “details”, it introduces these folks to the idea that the TLM is “what’s happening”.

    So I thinking of buying enough color ink for my ink-guzzling printer to print copies of this article to place this Sunday in the narthex of a parish church where I hope a weekly EF Mass will start in the new future. It won’t hurt, and may help.

  25. William says:

    Trypho, you are so, so correct. Thanks for your perspective.

  26. Meredith says:

    “Vivamus atque amemus” – don’t forget to complete the verse: “and ignore the edicts of stern old men”!

    It drives me crazy when people who know Latin think that Mass in Latin is vulgar or that the Latin-less herd doesn’t need it.

    “We survived plaid uniforms, parochial school, nuns with rulers, Limbo, purgatory, indulgences, infallibility, Vatican councils, confession, Saint Christopher’s demotion, relics of the saints, and fish sticks on Friday.”

    And black patent leather shoes, bingo, Joyce Kilmer, Fulton Sheen, kleenex-pinned-to-the-hair, plays about St. Maria Goretti… hee hee!

    This milieu is so irrelevant to young Catholics. Catholicism for us is a choice, not an atmosphere – most of us aren’t growing up like the heroine in “My Big Fat Greek Wedding.”

  27. Meredith says:

    I ought to make it clear that despite my mean comment (argh, mea culpa!) I am grateful that this article was published. I’m glad that people are talking about these things, and hopefully we will be able to talk TO each other more and more.

  28. Sandra says:

    Please don’t bash me too hard, but I could have been the one to write this only a few years back myself.

    It’s a return, walking in “baby steps” but a return none the less. More and more of my “baby boomer” siblings are just now realizing what they have been missing in their lives for so long. [Exactly.] Especially the “active in the Parish” types that totally embraced the Novus Ordo Missae because that was what we were raised on, and what we were told WAS the Mass. Some of us were too young for the Tridentine Rite of the Mass, to have really taken root in us as children. [Brick by brick. This will take a long time.]

  29. Christa says:

    I also subscribed to The Ligourian for a year. I didn’t particularly care for it and let my subscription lapse.

    It would be nice if some of the people here could recommend Catholic publications that are more in tune with this web site. As a convert, I have no idea where to go.

    Thank you!

  30. I thought it was a sad, poorly written little piece.

    Nice pictures, though…

  31. Frank H says:

    Christa – Try The Latin Mass magazine, and The Adoremus Bulletin.

  32. Gere says:

    \”*I’m more that prepared as an outsider to give my views and discuss them as to what has gone wrong if anyone is interested but it is an aside to the topic.\”

    I\’ll bite, Son of Trypho, I\’d love to discuss it, here or there: http://scelata.blogspot.com/2008/12/someone-elses-loopy-analogy.html
    I take it you are what is oft called a \”secular Jew?\”

    (Save the Liturgy, Save the World)

  33. Son of Trypho says:

    Gere
    I have responded on your blog and look forward to a reasoned discussion on this topic. I would encourage others to have a look also.
    As to my faith, I come from the Orthodox tradition but am non-practicing and have a great interest and appreciation for Christianity, esp. Catholicism.

    As to Henry’s comment earlier – I think the article is on the whole negative – it is aiming to portray the folks who follow this as an oddity. The only references to the community are Lefebvre and his excommunication and going underground and going backward. I note also the mention of the “stable group” bit also – the critics of the conservatives and the Latin Mass movement are, and I’m sure are actually doing right now, portraying you as unstable fundamentalists who are divisive and odd – hearkening back to a language that noone understands now etc. Again, only an outsiders perspective though.

  34. Trevor says:

    This is put forth by the Redemptorists? I assume there’s at least a few liturgically minded priests in the order, but I can vaguely see why the FSSR don’t want anything to do with the CSsR… ..

  35. Daniel says:

    “But on the surface, nothing separated us more from our Protestant brothers and sisters than the Latin Mass (Tridentine rite).”

    I wonder whether the writer also believes that the Latin Mass (Novus Ordo rite)also separates us from Protestants.

    Also, is being “separated” from Protestants a bad thing?

  36. St. Rafael says:

    The woman who wrote the article, is not Catholic. That is the scary thing about these Post-Vatican II progressives, they believe in a new religion.

  37. Brian says:

    Good grief! This woman gives a correct diagnonsis of the problem, and yet manages to totally miss the point! After listing all of the changes–as if they were good things–that the Church had to endure, she writes this: “Unfortunately, at that time priests began to leave the Church in droves. Our beloved St. Michael’s closed in lieu of a megachurch in Ankeny.”

    Unbelieveable…they have eyes but do not see!

  38. Interesting final quotation from the often pronographic Roman poet Catullus. If it was completed we probably would have gotten a good idea of her attitude: rumoresque senum seueriorum | omnes unius aestimemus assis!

  39. JPG says:

    Brian
    I have not read all the comments, but your observation summarizes the problem. Those who hold the position that all the changes were wonderful just do not see. Whether clergy or laity. The death of religious congregations, the scarcity of priests, mass attendence drastically decreased scarcely seems to enter their thought. They are as dogmatic in their positions as any good communist proclaiming the arrival of the worker’s paradise. They refuse to get it. I see this in my family. Dredging up the particulars good or bad of Catholic culture of the 50’s misses the point. The TLM is not simply the Mass of Pius V, he simply codified it . It is the Mass of Charlemagne, Francis of Assisi, Francis Xavier, Alcuin of York;
    theese people miss the coninuity. The Mass in that sense is not ours.
    The newer rite although valid in many respects fails at this because of its permissiveness. Its endless innovations will be its undoing.
    One suspects still that things will get worse before they get better.
    An entire generation or two need to relearn and reappreciate Tradition not simply as an identity issue but as a proper way to worship and approach God.
    JPG

  40. jarhead462 says:

    “For now, I’ll keep one foot on each of the traditional/liberal sides and not entertain an opinion.” – Jump in her pool, the water is lukewarm!

    Romulus- Well said
    Brian- ditto
    Son of Trypho- Excellent Observation
    David V.- I’m not going to waste my time this early in the morning.

  41. mpm says:

    “I am sure not everyone paid attention to the cows, others were focused on other
    things.”
    Comment by Mitch — 2 December 2008 @ 8:06 pm

    Mitch,

    Perhaps a good summary of her attitude would be: Thank God the Catholic Church has
    changed — now we have air-conditioning!

  42. Fr. Augustine Thompson: Yes, that truncated line of Catullus 5 at the end was a weird choice. I have the idea that the writer no more understood what that poem is about than the underlying issues which were the point of the article. Catullus’s poem, to his lover Lesbia, is about enjoying life before going into the void of eternal night of death. It is a plea to abandon herself to sensual pleasure.

  43. Flambeaux says:

    How many readers of Ligourian will think the Catullus quotation is from the “old” Mass?

  44. Fr. Z,

    Exactly my point about the Catullus. And as for you senes severii, you can just …

  45. Calleva says:

    What St Rafael and Brian said. I found it ironic that the writer could talk of church closures with priests leaving the church ‘in droves’, altar girls and noisy churches and not realise that none of this has anything to do with Vatican II.

    She knows nothing about Vatican II or Catholic teaching. One of the fruits of greater lay involvement was supposed to be a more educated laity. And we get articles like this. With its down-home tone one might assume it appeared in a small-town newspaper, but a Catholic publication?

  46. tom says:

    Don’t you think it’s GREAT that she translates “ET CUM SPIRITU TUO” as “And with your spirit”!!! She may not be the greatest fan of Latin but at least she gets it better than ICEL!!!

  47. Jayna says:

    “…but these are not pre-Vatican II days when churches were places of silence and meditation. Churches now tend to be alive and vibrant with laughter, conversation, and singing.”

    I seem to recall there being singing in the TLM. Laughter and conversation are all well and good, but not in the church. Take it outside so as not to disturb those would want a little silence and meditation. I had this very conversation with a woman at my parish (a member of Call to Action I subsequently found out). We’re doing this madrigal dinner concert and one of the jokes has something to do with a “silent knight” (haha and all that), and so we have a sign in calligraphy that says “Quiet” on it. I pointed out that maybe someone should walk around before and after Masses with it so as to silence all the blabbers in the church. She admitted to being one those blabbers and I made the point that I don’t mind if it’s in the narthex or outside, but why do it in the church itself? There’s no reason for it. She disagreed. Personally, I think it’s insensitive and downright rude to deny people the right to have silent prayer before Mass.

  48. Woody Jones says:

    I thought the tone of her article was generally one of fear of “turning the clock back”; basically she seems like just another person who subscribes to the hermeutic of discontinuity and rupture, as do the vast majority of the over 50 crowd that Trypho so well identified. Like so many of that ilk, I expect that she would also recoil from a Benedictine altar arrangement for the Ordinary Form, as seems to be the case for even the moderately conservative crowd here in Houston.

  49. Miguel says:

    “…but these are not pre-Vatican II days when churches were places of silence and meditation. Churches now tend to be alive and vibrant with laughter, conversation, and singing. Silence is beautiful and meditation good for the soul, but will today’s congregation embrace the quiet lilt of a Latin service? Can we embrace the Lord on a higher dimension with a language most cannot understand?”

    So, Churches have become reception halls now?… Churches are places TO WORSHIP GOD. And I can’t believe the author is talking about post VII Church as spiritual handykap… We can not longer meditate and contemplate in silence… We are not capable of interior life, just laugh and lite-chat? I don’t know where she wants to embrace the Lord, but I sure want to do so in a HIGHER DIMENSION… no matter the language…

    And final thought. It is the Lord who embraces me, He reaches me… I don’t need but to remain silent enough so I won’t miss Him as He passes by me and knocks on my heart asking to come in.

  50. Unfortunately, there is still a tendency for periodicals such as Ligourian to “aim for the middle.” Your parents and grandparents probably still get magazines like this one and St Anthony Messenger and Catholic Digest, which publish just enough actual good material to maintain the mainstream Catholic audience. They’ll say the right things about “safe” topics like abortion and sex outside of marriage and all that, but the relatively arcane subjects are handed over to the usual dilettantes. Under the circumstances, this is pretty much the kind of piece one would expect on this subject.

  51. Jeff Pinyan says:

    From the article: … these are not pre-Vatican II days when churches were places of silence and meditation. Churches now tend to be alive and vibrant with laughter, conversation, and singing. Silence is beautiful and meditation good for the soul, but will today’s congregation embrace the quiet lilt of a Latin service?

    She contrasts the olden days when churches “were places of silence and meditation” with now, when the churches are “alive and vibrant with laughter, conversation, and singing”. If the churches are “alive and vibrant” NOW, what were they THEN? Dead, lifeless, stillborn, dull?

    Remember when pauses — and silence in general — were “pregnant”? Now they’re “dead”.

  52. Christine F says:

    I read this article and thought that the author was making fun of the TLM and fearing that the Church is returning to reverence.

    I have asked my husband to allow our subscription to this magazine lapse. There have been many articles that have made me wonder if this is truly a Catholic magazine. Last month they had (former porn and vampire chronicles) author Anne Rice on the cover regarding her revergence to the Catholic faith.

  53. ssoldie says:

    ” I ll keep one foot on each side” etc etc. Tepid? How about ‘lukewarm’

  54. “GRATIAS AGIMUS DOMINO DEO NOSTRO”

    does author mean to say “agamus” ?

  55. Meredith says:

    “There have been many articles that have made me wonder if this is truly a Catholic magazine. Last month they had (former porn and vampire chronicles) author Anne Rice on the cover regarding her revergence to the Catholic faith.”

    What’s wrong with that?!

  56. yeoldeacolyte says:

    If you want “mystery” in today’s vernacular liturgy hang a veil (as in Solomon’s templer hung before the Holy of Holies) before the altar from the Sanctus to the end of the Canon. With bells ringing at the elevation. At which time, the veil is parted and then closed again after the elevation of the chalice. At the major elevation, the veil is parted again and remains open for the rest of Mass. The veil could be drawn before the altar outside of Mass during Lent. As in the Sarum rite’s “Lenten veil”.
    Have extra candelabra in the sanctuary lighted at the Sanctus and have two acolytes standing facing each other swinging censers while the celebrant, deacon, subdeacon and perhaps concelebrants too remain behind the veil. The anaphora in the vernacular demands a mysterious visualization or dramatization which a veil, candles, bells, and incense would provide. In the Tridentine Mass, the Roman Canon receives an even greater mystery enhancing element than it has now. By the way,the use of the veil or a pair of “heavenly gates” between the front pillars of a ciborium makes a great case for returning to using the altar canopy. Still after 1700 years the ideal setting forth of the altar in all its glory.