Read the statements of His Excellency Archbp. Robert Carlson and His Excellency Bp. Trautman.
Bp. Trautman is an old and skilled warrior of the USCCB, its deliberations and processes.
Archbp. Carlson has finally arrived in a position of real influence in the USCCB.
Unless there is some startling event which will prevent the President from appearing at Notre Dame, to its enduring shame, the corrosive effect of their decision on the unity of the Church in the USA is going to be a fact.
What remains is… what to do about it?
As I read the statements of some Church figures, such as Archbp. Nienstedt and Archbp. Burke, I think there will be consequences, in fundraising, in the view of the USCCB itself, and in the dicasteries of the Holy See.
Picking up from Bp. Trautman and Archbp. Carlson, I suspect the USCCB will discuss Notre Dame in a more formal way.
Notre Dame absolutely defied the USCCB and its guidelines on speakers who are against the Church’s teachings.
Notre Dame absolutely defied the USCCB…
Notre Dame abandoned its Catholic identity for the sake of the crumbs flung from secular power set against the Church’s voice in the public square.
There will be consequences.
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To see and hear Bishop Trautman jump on the bandwagon does speak volumes. It sounds like the bishops are finally “getting it” regarding how Notre Dame and Catholic colleges in general are thumbing their noses at the Church. Perhaps Notre Dame needs to be asked whether or not it really wants to be a Catholic institution anymore. Ultimately, the Church does not need Notre Dame, but Notre Dame needs the Church. It’s time to stop playing around and just do it. If the early Church–popes and bishops and laity–could stand up to the persecution of Roman emperors, the bishops of the United States can stand up to Notre Dame.
There are already 14 million that will be withheld from Notre Dame by Alumni! http://www.valuesvoternews.com/2009/05/notre-dame-alumni-have-now-withheld-14.html
Ah. But it’s harder to stand up to the enemies today than the Roman Emperor’s. Because the Roman Emperors just killed the body. But the World today is smarter. It knows that making martyrs just makes us stronger, so instead of killing us, they just laugh at us. And tempt us into complacency with the promise of Happiness In This World made possible by our modern technology, endless sensory stimulation, and the wealth America gets through our capitalist exploitation of poor countries. We all have gotten a little too comfortable. They’ve lulled us to sleep. Good night.
CNN covered the Notre Dame controversy for what looks like the first time…but boy do they love their polls. I don’t think I would have paid as much attention to them if I hadn’t heard so much about polls in Fr Z’s entries, but it’s amazing how much comfort people seem to take from knowing others are “with them.”
“Observant Catholic voters who attend religious services about once a week say by a 49 percent to 43 percent margin that Notre Dame should keep Obama on the program. Catholics who attend services less frequently say by a 70 percent to 26 percent margin that Obama should speak, according to the poll.”
I could say a lot about that paragraph, but I think it speaks for itself.
After seeing Fr. Norman Weslin arrested as Obama is honored, I am in such a state of depression. I sat and wept as I saw the video footage of the arrest on television. It is one thing to carry a heavy cross in life and be truly and utterly joyful in it,……..it is the height of blessing, in fact,,, …….but then to see betrayals like this, I feel that those of us who offer ourselves daily for the Church are being slapped down into the mud………… and that is what I have trouble coping with — betrayal on such a level that a holy priest is arrested while Obama is honored. It’s insanity. It’s evil. Having trouble coping and ask for prayers from my brothers and sisters in the Lord. May God bless the protestors and may God bless the university with wisdom. I pray he will not be allowed to speak. This is a travesty. Will offer my sufferings for this intention.
I don’t in any way minimize the gravity of this public debacle with Notre Dame, and really do appreciate the bishops speaking up about it, but in the end, what “consequences” do we really think will occur?
1. Fr Jenkins? No, I don’t think so. He continues to spout off his spin on the justification for inviting the president. Obviously his carrying on indicates there has not even been any hint of repercussions regarding his conduct. There’s already a rumor Bishop D’Arcy has suspended his faculties while in the diocese, but that seems unlikely. Bishops can’t even find the spine to deny Communion to pro-abort politicians and one thinks the faculties of a priest are going to be suspended? Let’s put the bong down and step away from the table.
2. USCCB? What could it do? If bishops and clergy can thumb their noses at Rome, what does a silly conference mean to them? There are great many areas in which the conference could “act,” but haven’t because they can’t.
3. The Holy See itself? Really? Even now not a word has been uttered or even hinted Rome gives a hoot. No retraction, no slowing down of the rhetoric from Notre Dame, so who really thinks Rome is going to be doing anything? Rome can’t ( or won’t bother ) even to free up the Tridentine Mass in various oppressive dioceses, even with the Pope’s own Motu Proprio–a real wet noodle there.
The concept of consequences in one thing but in the end either nothing at all will happen or it will result in someone being “reassigned.” Wow, **big** **deal**!! The damage is done and could have been avoided.
\”Defy the USCCB\” ?
Individual bishops have jurisdiction within their own dioceses. [So?] The USCCB is simply a useless bureaucracy with no real authority. It\’s like the U.N. [Whatever else it might be, the USCCB is not “useless”.]
Anyway, gimme a break with this whole Obama thing. [“Obama thing”?] \”Catholic\” schools have been allowing pro-\”choice\” politicians to speak for decades already. One more pro-\”choicer\” is not going to cause any more corrosion than the others. This is not anything out of the ordinary (unfortunately.) Where were all these complaints when Giuliani was receiving honors from Catholic schools? [Soooo… you are saying that because too little was done before, then nothing should be done now. Okay.]
And regarding the abortion issue in particular, how can these bishops focus on Obama? He is not one of their subjects!!! [Apparently you haven’t been reading the blog closely and have remained confused about what is going on. The bishops are not focused on Pres. Obama. They are focused on Notre Dame, which is supposed to uphold Catholic teaching.] There is ONE individual in this country who has the power to prevent more abortions than all the rest of us put together. Voting in elections is useless, as this issue has been removed from the electoral process. The one man I refer to is the Roman Catholic judge, Anthony Kennedy. If the bishops really cared about ending legal abortion, they would focus all their weight on him and him alone. He can do everything, the rest of us can do nothing. [Pretty jaded.]
If the young lose their faith in a Catholic university, then there is much more damage than if they lose it in a secular one. If the teachers of the faith are the ones destroying it, then how does one recover? So, I am seriously thinking of not sending my children to a Catholic University anymore – at least not ND nor any Jesuit run institution. ND together with other Jesuit houses of ill repute should be razed to the ground and rebuilt brick by brick.
Time magazine on “The Pope’s Stand in Obama’s Notre Dame Controversy”:
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1898756,00.html
Abortion is directly related to contraception. It steps in when contraception fails. This battle was joined in 1968 over Humanae Vitae. The same parties who took the anti-Humanae Vitae position are now pro-abortion (YES!). The Church went soft on the contraception issue (I can remember when contraception was a mortal sin and there was a place called Hell), but those ideas were abandoned for a more “pastoral” approach”.
Now we are living in the wreckage.
It was painful for me to watch the arrest of Father Weslin yesterday.
While I have no problem with inviting the Commander-in-chief of our country to give the typical sort of bromidic address usually rendered at commencements I do consider it, at the very least, a “prostitution of principle” on the part of Notre Dame to bestow an honorary degree on someone who’s public social values are not only the antithesis of the teachings of the Catholic Church regarding the “value of human life” but whose ‘degraded values’ regarding human life will have a profound impact on the direction taken by our country in the immediate future…..
Where is the “moral compass”? Where is the outrage? Where is the shame?
Hmm…though I have to agree the poster makes a good point about Anthony Kennedy…if he’d act like a Catholic, like the other four Catholics on the Court…we’d have a majority and be able to overturn Roe v Wade tomorrow. Why isnt there more focus on him?
MK, the Communist News Network aka CNN is cherry-picking its polls. More recent reputable polls show just the opposite, that Catholics who attend Sunday Mass are clearly against Notre Dame honoring the “One.” Tom
Two points:
First: problem at Notre Dame is systemic. Board of Trustees, well: read it and weep. bishops will have their hands full on this one. http://www.pewsitter.com/view_news_id_18408.php
Second: David Kastel: It is certainly easy to become jaded and think that there isn’t anything we can do. Think about it– the number two story on the highest rated cable news network :) right after Madam Speaker is the Notre Dame/ Pro Life story. Pro-Lifers worth their salt are rejoicing for the tons of FREE PUBLICITY. Think about this also: in a time when we thought we would be stuck in a quagmire because of the Pro-abortion one party rule inside the Beltway the Life issue is the topic on everyone’s lips. Rock on, it’s great to be Roman Catholic.
Archbishop Vigneron also weighed in on the situation about a month ago, but it was a on a hidden press release on the Archdiocese’s website.
Here is the link to the article…
http://www.aodonline.org/AODOnline/News+++Publications+2203/Press+Releases+2303/2009+16871/090429notredame.htm
What about consequences for Obama? In all of this it seems that Jenkins has, perhaps, unwittingly, played the fool. A consequence for Notre Dame should be the bishops demanding that this priest step down as president, for a start. What George Weigel said about the Obama camp in all of this, makes me think that Jenkins has been very politically naive. How about smarter Catholic university presidents? Here is Weigel’s comment: “There’s also a high-stakes “political game” here, though not the one Father Himes suggests. The Obama administration is full of very smart political operators. Reading last November’s electoral entrails, they’ve sensed the possibility of driving a wedge through the Catholic community in America, dividing Catholics from their bishops and thus securing the majority Catholic vote Obama received in 2008. And they’ve shrewdly judged that the soft underbelly of Catholic resistance to the Obama administration’s radical agenda on the life issues is composed of Catholic intellectuals, their prestige institutions (like Notre Dame and Georgetown), and their opinion journals—the very people and opinion centers who claimed last year that Obama was the true pro-life candidate. It’s a clever move on the political chessboard, and barring extraordinary actions from the bishops, it will likely meet with considerable success.”
So, Father Jenkins and the bishops are pieces on the Obama chessboard. Another consequence is that we should all be more vigilant. I pray that ND loses its title as Catholic, or that the bishops take real control over the board of directors. Is that possible?
Notre Dame absolutely defied the USCCB…
FWIW, I think the key offense was Fr. Jenkins’ treatment of his local ordinary, i.e., Bishop D’Arcy.
How marvelous for the godless forces in this country that instead of having to persecute the Church themselves by throwing priests and other loyal Catholics in jail, they can just recruit “Catholic” universities to do it for them! God help us all. Catholics arrested on an ostensibly Catholic campus for being Catholic. I wonder how many priests ND would be willing to jail for the sake of Obama. Would ND be willing to jail bishops, too, who showed up to protest? I would like to see the campus flooded with priests protesting as Fr. Weslin did, but of course we won’t see that. God bless Fr. Weslin.
This is a reply of the Weimar Republic all over again. Good is punished and evil rewarded. Tom
I meant “replay” Tom
Supertradmom, I think this is going to be the opening for Obama to do to the Church essentially what he has done to some of our industries. Obama follows the playbook of Hugo Chavez (whom he admires) very closely. Chavez recently got the Venezuelan congress to “censure” the Venezuelan bishops for having disciplined two priests who held a “Peoples’ Mass,” turning a traditional religious celebration into a politicized, Chavez-supporting event. This is the first time that Chavez has attempted to intervene directly in the heirarchy of the Church, but it won’t be the last.
Since Obama has gotten away with this power play, I think Obama will emulate Chavez and attack the Church through the legislature now. I bet we’re now going to see people like Biden, Pelosi, and other pro-Obama “Catholic” legislators attempt to “discipline” the bishops in some way.
We know Father Weslin for several years while we lived in Omaha, know his life story. He ahs dedicated his life to the unborn since he became a priest, having sereved at high levels int he US Army. His beloved wife Mary, with whom he opened a home for women expecting children, his wife was killed in tragic car accident when they stopped ont eh highway and their car was hit. he became a priest and he is very holy, dedicated to Our Lady and I felt teh presence of Mary, Our Lady so strongly as he was laid on the stretcher to take him away singin, and in the blue it’s as if at one point I saw her vail. Notre Dame, that is Fr. Jenkins is gutless, and they are afraid that if they let peopl on campus they coudl ahve thousands when Obama shows up, which is true. This anger will seeth for a long time among Catholcis and we will let our voices be known, to the Vatican, to Bishops in our dicoeses, to priests and to our fellow Catholics. I saw the picture of the Immaculate Conception grotto on Notre Dame’s website,a nd I cried take it off or remove Fr. Jenkins from leadership!!!
I have to tell you I was extremly upset hurt and angry about this, and seeing this video of Fr. Weslin. He ahs been beaten before wen it was covered up more easily, not like today in the age of YouTube etc. He was arrested in Houston a number of yeasr ago when a woman judge ordered an injunction of several hundred feet during a protest, during I believe a political convention, which he crossed. While in jail his attorney shook his hand and Fr. felt the Eucharist, the body of Christ, in his hand and placed it in his mouth. They tried to pry his jaws open, but as a former military man, he told us he knew the jaw is the strongest muscle in the body. They couldn’t get it out, so as punishment, after having broken his glasses and roughing him up, the guards stripped him completely naked and made him stand outside the jail cells for all to see. Just one example.
What I have to say is, even tough there are a number of Bishops who have spoken out on this, WHERE ARE THOSE WHO HAVEN’T and WHY. I was told that at the last Bishopsconference an inside source said they knoew for sure about half the Bihops voted for Obama. If that is the case, God help us, and the Lord, someday, will indeed spit those out of His mouth who are wimpy, lukewarm and mostly not following the will of God.
What is scary is that Bishops are the apostles of today – can you even imagine St. Paul, or any of the apostles who went to their death to make sure we, yes we and all before us, knew about Jesus Christ and had the oportunity to be with Him forever, can you imagine them being here and being afraid to speak out the truth to the world? They would relish the opportiunity and use it,a dn they are sitting up there now looking at teh Lord adn saying Lord, waht are you going to do, where are those you have chosen- why are they silent? What are the Bishops worried about those who haven’t spoke out? Can’t say for sure, but money, big houses, power, prestige, big comfy lifestyle come to mind. If these things cause them to neglect the unborn at this time, and not put themselves on the line at this curcial time, I pity them before the judgement throne of God. When the early martyrs were being thrown to the lions for their beliefs you know their leaders were there with them, and certainly supporting them. In our days, they can’t even get off their colelctive rumps to make a statement against this, except for those who are truly doing the will of God. WHY!!!!!!!!!??????? Because they voted for Obama? If so, I’d sugegst repenting and do what is right. If it’s because they are afraid – where have we gone to as a Church??? They didn’t start this Chuch, Jesus Christ and his Apostles, who were martyred did !!! Their names in Revelations are on the foundations of the heavenly kingdom, the Apostles of the Lamb. They are in a position of trust, and their own little kingdoms have taken over as a priority. You can’t even make a statement when our church was founded by Martyr’s blood???!!! What would John the Baptist do? Our world even has some of our leaders. SPEAK UP FOR THE TRUTH, ALL BISHOPS. Or maybe they don’t want to upset their buddies, or are being political. That isn’t thh Church of Jesus Christ, that is the Church of the world. God help us all!!!
(Sorry, resubmitting with spelling errors corrected)
We know Father Weslin for several years while we lived in Omaha, know his life story. He has dedicated his life to the unborn since he became a priest, having served at high levels in the US Army. His beloved wife Mary, with whom he opened a home for women who are expecting children, his wife Mary was killed in tragic car accident when they stopped on the highway and their car was hit. he became a priest and he is very holy, dedicated to Our Lady and I felt the presence of Mary, Our Lady so strongly as he was laid on the stretcher to take him away singing, and in the blue it’s as if at one point I saw her vail. Notre Dame, that is Fr. Jenkins, is gutless, and they are afraid that if they let people on campus they could have thousands when Obama shows up, which is true. This anger will seeth for a long time among Catholics with Jenkins, and we will let our voices be known, to the Vatican, to Bishops in our dicoeses, to priests and to our fellow Catholics. I saw the picture of the Immaculate Conception grotto on Notre Dame’s website, and I cried \”take it off or remove Fr. Jenkins from leadership.\” How can you show the Immaculate Conception and arrest Catholcis, even a Catholci priest fro peaceful protests????
I have to tell you I was extremly upset hurt and angry about this, and seeing this video of Fr. Weslin. He has been beaten before in a day when it was covered up more easily, not like today in the age of YouTube etc. For example, he was arrested in Houston a number of years ago when a woman judge ordered an injunction of several hundred feet during a protest, during I believe a political convention, which Fr. Weslin simply crossed. While in jail his attorney shook his hand and Fr. felt the Eucharist, the body of Christ, in his hand and placed it in his mouth. They tried to pry his jaws open, but as a former military man, he told us he knew the jaw is the strongest muscle in the body. They couldn’t get it out, so as punishment, after having broken his glasses and roughing him up, the guards stripped him completely naked and made him stand outside the jail cells for all to see. Just one example.
What I have to say is, even tough there are a number of Bishops who have spoken out on this, WHERE ARE THOSE WHO HAVEN’T and WHY. I was told that at the last Bishops conference an inside source said they know for sure about half the Bihops voted for Obama. If that is the case, God help us, and the Lord, someday, will indeed spit those out of His mouth who are wimpy, lukewarm and mostly not following the will of God.
What is scary is that Bishops are the apostles of today – can you even imagine St. Paul, or any of the apostles who went to their death to make sure we, yes we and all before us, knew about Jesus Christ and had the oportunity to be with Him forever, can you imagine them being here and being afraid to speak out the truth to the world, when not their lives but perhaps a bit of their comforts were at stake? They would relish the opportunity and use it, and they are sitting up there now looking at the Lord and saying Lord, what are you going to do, where are those you have chosen- why are they silent? What are the Bishops worried about those who haven’t spoke out? Can’t say for sure, but money, big houses, power, prestige, big comfy lifestyle come to mind. If these things cause them to neglect the unborn at this time, and not put themselves on the line at this curcial time, I pity them before the judgement throne of God. When the early martyrs were being thrown to the lions for their beliefs you know their leaders were there with them, and certainly supporting them. In our days, they can’t even get off their colelctive rumps to make a statement against this, except for those who are truly doing the will of God. WHY??????? Because they voted for Obama? If so, I’d suggest repenting and doing what is right. If it’s because they are afraid – where have we gone to as a Church??? They didn’t start this Chuch, Jesus Christ and his Apostles, who were martyred did. Their names in Revelations are on the foundations of the heavenly kingdom, the Apostles of the Lamb. The Bishops are in a position of trust, and their own little kingdoms have taken over as a priority. You can’t even make a statement when our church was founded by Martyr’s blood??? What would John the Baptist do? Our world even has some of our leaders. SPEAK UP FOR THE TRUTH, ALL BISHOPS. Or maybe they don’t want to upset their buddies, or are being political. That isn’t thh Church of Jesus Christ, that is the Church of the world, of wimps. God help us all.
I only just now read about the arrest of Fr Weslin at Notre Dame and saw the video. What a horrible thing to see a “Catholic” institution lower itself to doing this. I thought things would come to this in the future but didn’t realize it would come this soon. Thanks be to God for Fr. Weslin and his tireless efforts.
19 arrested at ND so far:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j6Yrs9MYliOAhf5vv1pShKraTJSQD987HPL80
Pope John Paul II invoked The Blessed Virgin Mary as Mater Ecclesiae (Mother of Priests) on Holy Thursday 1979. As our worldly mothers are usually the first to stand up and take action on our behalf I don’t think Holy Mary would do any less especially on behalf of her priests who are subjected to sacrilege.
Once they hindered and arrested the good Father and the other folk they spiritually “kicked things up a notch” as the tv cook says. They also de facto blocked the Kerygma that the good Father was trying to proclaim not a really spiritually good place to be I wouldn’t think. I am not educated in these things but they kind of stand out.
I agree with William H. Phelan. In many ways abortion is the rotten fruit of contraception. Far too little attention is paid to the intrinsic evil of contraception, how it served as a forerunner of abortion, and the fact that most Catholics ignore the teaching of the Church and use artificial contraception. While it is great to see people defending the unborn, I sometimes wish people understood the interconnectedness of many of these social issues.
Archbishop Burke made an excellent point in his recent speech in Washington D.C. that so-called same sex marriage is only conceivable because the widespread use of contraception has destroyed the connection between marriage and procreation. Few leaders in the Church have the courage to speak out on the issue, but it is desperately needed.
NOTRE DAME
Dare me Not
Woe…
Notre Dame
To hold back His wrath
For my holy name
Dare me Not
Woe…
Notre Dame
Bestowing great honors
On lawmakers who maim
Dare me Not
Woe…
Notre Dame
With Judas you learned
At the first priests can shame
Dare me Not
Woe…
Notre Dame
Transpose my nine letters
“Dare me Not” I proclaim!!
FWIW, I think the key offense was Fr. Jenkins’ treatment of his local ordinary, i.e., Bishop D’Arcy.
Comment by Rich Leonardi
Actually, it’s a bit more complex, simply because ND’s students come from all over the nation.
RBrown/Rich Leonardi wrote, “FWIW, I think the key offense was Fr. Jenkins’ treatment of his local ordinary, i.e., Bishop D’Arcy.
Actually, it’s a bit more complex, simply because ND’s students come from all over the nation.”
Bishop D’Arcy, as Bishop of Fort Wayne-South Bend represents the Universal Church. Although Bishop D’Arcy has good reason to be offended by Father Jenkins’ treatment of him, the greater offense is Father Jenkins’ thumbing his nose at the Church. This “non serviam” attitude on the part of Father Jenkins and Notre Dame is something for which they will ultimately answer.
TNCath,
Bp D’Arcy represents the universal Church, but his jurisdiction is limited to his diocese. As I noted earlier, in so far as most ND students come from outside his diocese, it is proper for other bishops to criticise the honorary degree.
“One more pro-”choicer” is not going to cause any more corrosion than the others. This is not anything out of the ordinary (unfortunately.) Where were all these complaints when Giuliani was receiving honors from Catholic schools? [Soooo… you are saying that because too little was done before, then nothing should be done now. Okay.]”
Frankly, the problem is that the Notre Dame scandal has made the bishops that have spoken out look like hypocritical, partisan hacks (a scandal in its own right) rather than serious moral leaders. As noted above, when only one bishop complains, and not very loudly, when a pro-“choice,” public adulterer, Catholic, REPUBLICAN delivers a commencement address and receives an honorary degree, and when 70 (I’ve lost count) bishops speak up when a pro-“choice,” family man, non-Catholic, DEMOCRAT speaks, the Church’s public moral credibility (and isn’t that what is at stake here?) suffers tremendously due to these very same bishops’ prior IN-action.
Should the bishops be silent now? NO, of course not. Two wrongs don’t make a right, as I’m sure your mother informed you. Should these 70 (approx.) bishops do some public penance for their prior scandalous failure to speak out? Yes–public scandal requires public penance–they could/should have done more. Otherwise, the Church has and will continue to have zero moral credibility on the greatest moral issue of our time.
Bp. Trautman’s got a dog in this fight, precisely because it’s really blown up and all the pieces are in play, and therefore is an affront to the USCCB. However, the general population doesn’t know about all the stuff that goes on behind the curtain with the USCCB and it will look to them, if they care/notice any of this, like he’s saying something different (more honorable?), which in a twisted way he might really be, to his chagrin. It’s just that he’s got the details all screwed up, as usual. Abp. Wuerl and some few others are in the same bucket.
There’s also the worry about consequences. There’s the sense in which some of the bishops probably want to back away from the ND carnage slowly and carefully, just in case somebody gets hurt, because this has taken on proportions no one expected earlier. There are a lot of moving parts here — that’s becoming more and more evident to all. The wedge….the 2012 elections…..the public arrests….all the precedents…..etc etc
So why are they talking? My guess is that, in general, they think this whole mess is a bigger threat to their goals at this point than getting their name on an “I AM A CATHOLIC” billboard in the public square, something they usually try mightily to avoid for reasons of their own which the general US public doesn’t know anything about.
I also suspect that most Catholics are either thinking about the meaning of this event internal to the church from some vantage point, or the meaning of this event external to the church from some vantage point, but not both. And that includes the bishops, due to their very narrow perspective (surrounded with their own people 24/7 as they are). I’m seeing pitifully little perspective here. We could really get taken advantage of here if we don’t wake up.
The bishops will need our prayers in the coming times, while they get their heads wrapped around what’s happened and what’s going to happen in the next few years.
Dave N, you’re overlooking one essential fact: the overwhelming numbers of pro-abortion politicians are found on the Democratic side of the aisle. Sorry to burst your bubble. I also recall that Bishop Trautman spoke to Tom Ridge, the Republican, pro-choice former Governor of Pennsylvania when he was going to receive an honorary degree from a “Catholic” university and was able to talk Tom Ridge out of accepting it. I guess class, too, may be found on only the Republican side of the aisle. Are you a “political hack” feeling guilty because you voted for the ONE? Tom
This is a reply of the Weimar Republic all over again. Good is punished and evil rewarded. Tom
The Weimar Republic was co-opted by the NSDAP. The Weimar republic itself was a democracy. If you want to make the proper comparison you need to compare the current administration to the NSDAP.
“surrounded with their own people 24/7 as they are”
An argument against mandatory celibacy for diocesan priests. I mean, bishops themselves still would be, but it would at least lower the radius of the “bubble” between then and the larger community.
No, Mark, not at all. There are plenty of stupid people with wives. It’s an excellent argument for bishops to stop playing politics and get out there and teach. There are no good arguments against mandatory celibacy.
Besides, Mark, you seem to be unaware of the fact that many of the groupies that bishops surround themselves with are laypeople of the CTA variety, AND many of them ARE married. Do you think every chancery only employs priests??
70% of Catholics approved of our President’s attendance at the ND graduation. The majority of the bishops did not comment, I hope some of you listened to his speech with an open mind and an open heart.
For extra credit, who said this? “There is no need of adding any qualifying terms to the profession of Catholicism,” ****concluded. “It is quite enough for each one to proclaim ‘Christian is my name and Catholic my surname.'” hint, he was Pope.
And absolutely it is true….
I might say that maybe Fr. Jenkins must be defrocked and excommunicated, as well as some of those who made the decision, unless they recant..
No, Mark, not at all. There are plenty of stupid people with wives.
Thank you, MichiganCatholic for making me laugh as I haven’t in several days! But which is the cause, and which is the effect?
“”70% of Catholics approved of our President’s attendance at the ND graduation.””
And this means what? That truth depends on the number of people who believe a thing? That if a majority of people think something then it must be righteous? Once upon a time a majority of people thought the earth was flat, black people were subhuman, and the cosmos rotated around the earth. Collectives of people and polls are very easily manipulated. I guarantee you there are plenty of minds changed by group dynamics and the Delphi process in every classroom on nearly every campus and school in the country. Obamas a Marxist political hack out of the Chicago machine and an abortion promoter. He mouths touchy feely utopian promises of something for nothing and engineered collective love delivered by his version of the state. All your statistic means is that Catholics have been dumbed down and misled.
“” The majority of the bishops did not comment, I hope some of you listened to his speech with an open mind and an open heart.””
He is a false prophet, a POLITICIAN, for Petes sake! He tells you what you want to hear and breaks campaign promises right and left. He can’t even deliver a decent speech without reading it off a prompter. There are some things no one should EVER have an “open mind” about. Some things are just plain wrong.
Just for the record, I didn’t like phoney Bush any better.
Guys,
Please do not let the Notre Dame situation bother you. Is anybody here a history Buff?
The over all situation facing our church is comaprable to what the allies were facing in fall, 1942. The opposition was strong and skilled. They will win battles today, tommorrow and over the next few years.
But… It had been demonstrated that the opposition, though very skilled, could be beaten at the local level. More importantly, the slowly evolving strategic situation was favoring the allies in long term. This momentum grew and translated into fewer and fewer victories for the opposition and victory for the allies in the end.
We are the allies and the strategic situation is already beginning to shift. We lost at Notre Dame today, but what about ten years from now? So long as we keep the strategic momentum and fight local battles wisely, individual defeats, though they will hurt, will not matter in the end.
70% of Catholics approved of our President’s attendance at the ND graduation. The majority of the bishops did not comment, I hope some of you listened to his speech with an open mind and an open heart.
Do you think Obama will have an open mind and an open heart when he nominates the successor to David Souter? I think he’ll forget all about “the open mind and open heart” and name someone who has passed the pro abortion litmus test.
For extra credit, who said this? “There is no need of adding any qualifying terms to the profession of Catholicism,” ****concluded. “It is quite enough for each one to proclaim ‘Christian is my name and Catholic my surname.’” hint, he was Pope.
Comment by Jim
The profession of Catholicism–and the name Christian and surname Catholic–includes fidelity to the Church’s authority in doctrinal matters. If that fidelity ceases to exist, then the names don’t mean very much.
The Washington Post reports that Michigan Gov Jennifer Granholm, a pro abortion “Catholic”, is on the short list to be the successor to David Souter. If so, that would confirm the notion that Obamaco is trying to split the Catholic vote.
LateKate,
With all due respect, I liked Bush a heck of a lot better — He was much better in an objective sense. No one should feel ashamed about acknowledging that
Jim,
Forgive me, but I have never been able to understand the sentiment expressed by statements such as yours: “I hope some of you listened to his speech with an open mind and an open heart.”
I have seen it used to justify the Davinchi Hoax (er, Code), Eastern mysticism (e.g. Reiki) as well as “discussions” about abortion. At the risk of being permanently labeled “closed minded”, I have to ask, why? What possible benefit will I gain by listening to President Obama with an “open mind”? True, he may relate some truths, but the Catholic Church possesses the fullness of truth. In other words, any truth that the president may express is already taught by the Catholic Church. Why would I go anywhere else?
Well if Granholm is appointed, Michigan should benefit by her absence. She has been a total disaster as governor. Tom
The Archdiocese of DC blog has a good take on the speech, I think: http://blog.adw.org/2009/05/presidents-address-at-notre-dame/
We should pray that the consequences of the Notre Dame crisis result in the conversion of every sinner including ourselves and may every sinner become a great saint of God.
Don’t pray for vengeance or condemnation or holier than though type sentiments. The Good Book (Ignatius Catholic version preferably) says that “God does not enjoy the death of the sinner but rejoices when sinners turn from sin” Ezekiel
Chapter 18 paraphrased
This whole Notre Dame crisis is a reflection of the great conflict of the weakness of man, the devil, and the world in essence a great spiritual war played out in time with eternal spiritual casualties.
The troops on the side of life need to become more and more righteous in the true biblical sense and make sure our spiritual armor and houses are clean and strong (living as the Catholic Church intends and nourished by the Sacraments) for the “prayers of the righteous avail much” to paraphrase scripture.
Father Rutler commented that there is a “crisis of saints” which means to me that we must pray to become saints and pray that the opponents to life become great saints. We want and need more saints praying for our Priests and for all sinners i.e. all humans. Someone let me know if I am wrong.
Michael J,
“A mind is like an oven. If you leave it open all the time, it heats up the kitchen without doing any useful work, and everything comes out half-baked.”