Another helpful suggestion (heaven help us)

The Iranian Supreme Leader has a solution for the problem of violence in the Middle East.

From the Daily Caller:

Iran’s supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, stated on Wednesday that the only solution for the region is the destruction of Israel, and that the armed confrontation must expand beyond Gaza.

Meanwhile, revolutionary guards announced new missiles which could destroy Israel’s Iron Dome missile defense system.

Fars News Agency, a media outlet run by the Iranian state, reported today that Khamenei addressed the conflict in Gaza in a meeting with Iranian college students.

“These crimes which are beyond imagination and show the true nature of the wolfish and child killer regime, which the only solution is its destruction,” the ayatollah declared to his audience. “However, until that time, the expansion of the armed resistance of the Palestinians of the West Bank is the only way to confront this wild regime.”

[...]

That helps, don’t you think?

Meanwhile, ISIS is being helpful in their own way, pacifying Mosul (through rape, threats, and murder), while redecorating the Cathedral of Mosul for the ancient Christian community, as a mosque.  HERE  Thanks for the help.

When will our “leaders” in the West begin to act upon the clear facts, the nature of the conflicts we also have been embroiled in?

Sts. Nunilo and Alodia, pray for us.

St. Lawrence of Brindisi, pray for us.

 

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About Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Fr. Z is the guy who runs this blog. o{]:¬)
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49 Responses to Another helpful suggestion (heaven help us)

  1. Priam1184 says:

    Why would anyone expect “the West” to do anything about this. Its morality is dead and its geopolitical clout is, as a result being flushed down the toilet. This is what happened when the formerly Christian world embraced full on apostasy. Do you really think that Obama, Cameron, or Hollande are really going to do anything for Mosul’s Christians even as they enforce public atheism in their own countries? Really?

    And as for Khameni: if he didn’t call for the destruction of Israel, now that would be a news story…

  2. Legisperitus says:

    Alas, Christian civilization in the West gave up the ghost with the war that started 100 years ago.

  3. Elizabeth D says:

    I just saw a video of an interview with some Christians driven out of Mosul on short notice, I don’t have a TV so I don’t know if things like this are being shown on TV or not but I think people should watch this.

  4. Sword40 says:

    Don’t expect anything out of our current Gov’t leaders. They are all bought and paid for by the Ultra liberal left. The persecutions have begun. Prayer, prayer and more prayer.

  5. Grateful to be Catholic says:

    “… which the only solution is its destruction….” Is Killick wearing a turban these days?

  6. jflare says:

    Does “the West” have a moral footing to stand on right now? I’m hard pressed to explain what that would be.
    Even if we did, I’m not following how our becoming directly involved either in Israel or in Iraq will be of use to us or to anyone else. We made efforts for ten years to persuade the Shia and Sunni to get along. They “tolerated” us for that long, then one side or the other decided they didn’t like that solution. I don’t think we can solve that.
    I think it disgusting that Obama has been so intolerant toward Israel, but Netanyahu seems to understand that he’s going to need to fight if he wants any semblance of peace in the long run.

    Unless we decide we wish to take over entire Mid-East, I don’t see how our involvement will help anyone. Certainly it won’t help us.
    Having a relatively small troop of Special Forces and maybe a few battalions of troops standing in between two groups of religious fanatics doesn’t sound smart to me. Sounds like a way to get our troops slaughtered.

  7. Fiat Domine says:

    Father Z,
    I just have to say that I am so glad that God has given us availability to your thoughts and comments, because in this crazy world and Holy Mother Church being mutilated for so many years, and being heart broken over it all, when I come to your blog and read your comments about these horrible things, my heart just has to smile again and now I can go to sleep. Good Night Father Z. and thank you.

  8. tzabiega says:

    Let’s face the truth. If the U.S. hadn’t overthrown a brutal, yet tolerant and even supportive of Christians Saddam Hussein, there wouldn’t be an expansion of brutal Islamic fanaticism in Iraq, Syria, and elsewhere. Hussein was keeping these fanatics in check and so it is the U.S. and its pro-Israeli policies that have caused the chaos. Christians are being murdered and fleeing Iraq and Syria precisely because of U.S. policies against secular regimes in Arab countries such as Syria and Iraq and Egypt which tended to stabilize the region by preventing ethnic strife and the rise to power of Muslim fanatics. And why is it that the U.S. targeted Saddam Hussein and now the Assad regime? Not because of a true threat to the U.S. (which came from Al-Quaida to whom the U.S. gave a present by deposing Hussein, one of its most powerful enemies), but because Iraq and Syria were threats to Israel. Israel is the problem in the Middle East that has cost the U.S. trillions of dollars and thousands of lives to support a spoiled brat of a country that believes it can do anything it wants because it is financially and militarily backed by the U.S., which upsets the Arabs (Christians and Muslims) because Israel can get away with anything. Stop being an Americanist (the same in regards to immigration instead of supporting your Latin American Catholic brothers and sisters), Father Z, and trumping the false theology of the Evangelical Protestants as though Israel is not a problem. Just talk to Catholic Palestinian priests and laypeople and they will tell you how much they have suffered thanks to Israel. Or better yet read “Blood Brothers” by Bishop Chacour, especially about how the Israeli Army disposesed thousands of Palestinian Christians of their homes (including Chacour’s family) without any compensation even to this day.

  9. Gratias says:

    Thank you Elizabeth D for the video on the persecution of Christians by the Islamic State.

    Caliph Ibrahim is very dangerous. L’Ossevatore Romano had a front page article reporting that they ordered the Clitoridectomy of all women between 11 and 45. Islamic state also blew up the ancient tomb of the prophet Jonah (YouTube link at Rorate Caeli).

  10. kurtmasur says:

    tzabiega wrote ” Stop being an Americanist (the same in regards to immigration instead of supporting your Latin American Catholic brothers and sisters), Father Z, and trumping the false theology of the Evangelical Protestants as though Israel is not a problem. Just talk to Catholic Palestinian priests and laypeople and they will tell you how much they have suffered thanks to Israel. Or better yet read “Blood Brothers” by Bishop Chacour, especially about how the Israeli Army disposesed thousands of Palestinian Christians of their homes (including Chacour’s family) without any compensation even to this day.”

    First of all I would like to express my greetings to Father Z, and appreciation for maintaining this very interesting blog, to which I am greatly indebted due to its wealth of information about issues related to the Catholic Church and the TLM. Having said that, I am afraid that tzabiega makes a very good point in his/her post, especially the above quoted statement. For all the good things about this excellent blog, it saddens me to see how at times the entries posted have less to do with the Catholic Church and more to do with heavy partisan politics (especially what would be considered “rightist” or “conservative” in the USA). As an anti-abortion pro-life Catholic, I can understand why other fellow Catholics would give their support to parties such as the Republican Party. But I would never allow one sole issue (that of being pro-life) to influence me into supporting all of the other issues that belong to the “right”, many of which are not very Christian in nature (not to mention hypocritical), as is the case of being “anti-immigration”, especially in the context of the current wave of immigrants from Latin America, being pro-rich, and opposing universal health care for all (without which there would be millions of people without medical attention). Yes, it angers me that the so-called “Obamacare” wants to cover things like contraception, but the correct solution is to pass the necessary amendments to improve the health care law, not to eliminate it altogether. Otherwise, by neglecting the millions of uninsured is akin to neglecting Christ. But I digress.

    Another example is immigration. The established “right” in America is anti-immigration, especially against those that come from Latin America, yet that same establishment supports the State of Israel taking away land from the Palestinians, many of whom are fellow Christians themselves. Never mind the migration history of the Americas post-1492 taking into account which lands originally belonged to whom. If this isn’t hypocrisy, then I don’t know what is.

    Finally, to set the record straight, I am neither “left” nor “right” when it comes to political labels. As a Catholic, I stick to strictly Christian principles when shaping my political beliefs, rather than to subscribe to an “all-or-nothing” approach that is apparent here in America when choosing between the established “left” and “right”, at least according to how “left” and “right” are defined in the USA.

    To conclude, I have a great deal of respect for Fr. Z, and I love this blog, and even try to spread the word to other fellow Catholics by out-right recommending it (and bringing in potential new donors). I would just like to humbly suggest to leave out partisan politics. Besides, I am sure many readers here are not even Americans, so in a sense such political posts could be alienating to a significant part of your readers. Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum :-)

  11. jflare says:

    tzabiega, kurtmasur
    To be honest, I’m very weary of this whole “blame America for everything” attitude.
    I don’t agree that Israel is the problem that many wish to insist, nor do I think we’d benefit from “compromising” on anything. At the same time that the Church has insistently declared herself “nonpartisan” and neither right nor left, I would contend that She has seemed to me to walk nearly in lock-step with the major party which isn’t Republican and has leaned desperately leftward.
    Frankly, I’ve long since grown to detest the stubbornly liberal slant the Church seems to insist on taking.

  12. cwillia1 says:

    There is danger in a one-sided application of abstract principles to conflicts rooted in history. It prevents a reasonable settlement of present conflicts. One can make such a case for the Palestinians and one can make such a case for the Israelis. Historians can dispute the facts and the principles in scholarly detachment. They usually find that there is plenty of blame on all sides and that individuals have mixed motives for what they do. They act out of fear, greed, abstract principles, hatred, grievances that are more or less reasonable, misunderstanding, honor and charity. And then this cauldron of mixed individual motives gets aggregated into collective action.

    The way forward is for the parties to this conflict to find a way to live with each other. As I see it, the Israelis are prepared to find such a path, a mutually beneficial solution, and are willing to take some risks to achieve it. A clear majority seeks to live in peace with the Palestinian population. I do not see this on the Palestinian side. I see a culture and politics grounded in nursing historical grievances and fostering a sense of victimization. And there are outside parties with similar motivations that work against any reconciliation.

  13. incredulous says:

    Kurtmasur,

    Please consider that political institutions all over the world are attacking Catholics, Orthodox and other Christians and slaughtering them. The US government is walking down that road to the point where our recently Bishops communicated throughout the church that the Federal government (under a very partisan anti Christian-Democratic Party & Barack Obama) was a threat to religious freedom. You cannot possibly separate religious discussion from the the political structures that historically and perpetually threaten them. Whether this causes discomfort or not is simply an emotional response and as such we Catholics act on virtue and not emotion. Also, we as Catholics are simply not concerned what other men say about us as we act on virtue in fighting evil and glorifying God in the Church Militant.

  14. Reconverted Idiot says:

    Otoh, contra the posts of tzabiega and kurtmasur above, and despite my residual political ‘feelings’ on many subjects, I am glad to read your takes on such things, Father. I’ve no time for the fawning faces of the American politicos, but it does me good to read your takes on these things because they give me pause for thought.

    My philosophy of philosophy has for a long time been something like trying to see all opposing views as a dialogue, that no philosopher is necessarily right, but he may correct something which is wrong in his detractors. I never understood people who called themselves Kantians or Hegelians, I was a strange mix of both, which came from seeing how the two strands were engaged in a dialogue across the centuries. Where Hegel (or Fichte for that matter) critiques Kant, he builds on something.

    Likewise when you share your thoughts, your critiques of certain things, your championing of certain things, you may advance something which is contrary to what I hold, but because I’m sure you’re a knowledgeable and thoughtful person, I try to ‘think your position’ as much as I can, and through that to find the gaps in my own thinking. E.g. when I first came to this blog the idea of a priest who held up the right to bear arms was a complete shock to me, an anathema to everything I thought I knew. Now I know different. Now, I think (hope) I am more balanced in my understanding. And long may it continue.

    Thank you.

  15. Kerry says:

    Reconverted, “The eternal difference between right and wrong does not fluctuate, it is immutable. Patrick Henry”. There are no reasonable, “If this hadn’t been done, then these things would not be happening” assertions. To make such an assertion is to excuse evil. The ‘isis’ killers, (I refuse to give them the distinction of caps), will get no mercy on the other side if they try to blame their actions on earthly political circumstances.
    We are in a religious war. And until the blinders of the fascist ‘speech codes’ drop or are ripped from the cultural eyes of the West, we are engaged with both hands tied. Mockery of the Moo-Ham-edams, (milk, meat, cheese) could be right up there with Jdams, fifty cals and F-16s.

  16. acardnal says:

    “Meanwhile, ISIS is being helpful in their own way, pacifying Mosul (through rape, threats, and murder), . . . “

    ISIS/ISIL destroys the Tomb of Jonah the prophet in Nineveh (Mosul):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Sf3RWu_vdk

  17. robtbrown says:

    Tzabiega

    I’ll preface my comments by saying I was no fan of the Iraq invasion.

    1 Iraq was chosen as the nation to invade for various reasons, among which: The US wanted to establish a Pax Americana in the ME. The central location of Iraq meant that American influence could radiate in all directions. The Persian Gulf would facilitate the arrival of the American military–also through Turkey, who declined.

    2 The Iraq location and the big embassy the US built provided the circumstances to set up intelligence networks throughout the Middle East.

    3 About a week after 9 11 I talked with an old friend who had just retired as a one star and was much involved with the problem of terrorism. He wondered how many Americans understood we were about to get involved in a Middle East Civil War

    4. Iraq has had little to do with the situation in Syria. see above #3.

    5 I agree that US policy has favored Israel too much. Since 1948 the Palestinians have been a people without a country. The problem now is that Israel has the firepower to cause serious damage to oil production if attacked. The US doesn’t buy much oil there, but others do–the effects on the world economy could be disastrous

    6 it is irresponsible to refer to the movement of people across the southern US border as simply “immigration”

  18. robtbrown says:

    Re converted Idiot

    I recommend Jacques Maritain’s Introduction to Philosophy

  19. tcreek says:

    A prophecy 100 years in coming?
    Irish poet William Butler Yeats in 1919.

    THE SECOND COMING
    Turning and turning in the widening gyre
    The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

    Surely some revelation is at hand;
    Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
    The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
    When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
    Troubles my sight: a waste of desert sand;
    A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
    A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
    Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
    Wind shadows of the indignant desert birds.

    The darkness drops again but now I know
    That twenty centuries of stony sleep
    Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
    And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
    Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

  20. CrimsonCatholic says:

    @ Father Z, how are so many liberals commenting on you blog?

    Palestine may have been oppressed in the past, but now they are run by a terrorist organization called Hamas. They have ties to the Muslim Brotherhood, which slaughtered Christians in Egypt. They are Holocaust deniers, and have the same views as Adolf Hitler. They have indiscriminately fired thousands of missiles and mortar, aimed at homes, schools, etc. They use schools and hospitals to hide weapons, and I saw yesterday they were using children as shield to shoot behind. Israel has had a truce on 3 occasions now that Hamas has broken by firing missiles at Israel. They are a barbaric, evil group that the US should support Israel in defeating. People are believing the lies of the MSM, which act like Israel is the aggressor in all of this conflict.

    One can be Catholic and be against illegal immigration.

    One can be Catholic and be against Obamacare( which has nothing to do with Healthcare btw).

  21. Adam Welp says:

    @CrimsonCatholic

    Let me expand on your final line. One can be Catholic and be against Universal Healthcare. Free healthcare is not a right.

    But, back on topic. I am saddened by what is going on in the Middle East. But, I have always, and will continue to stand with Isreal. That does not mean that I will not call them out for things they have done wrong, as Isreal’s big brother, that is our job.

  22. torch621 says:

    I’m on Israel’s side in this conflict. They seem to be the only legitimately free country in the ME and the only one where Christians can live with any sort of dignity (attacks by ignorant Orthodox Jews notwithstanding). That being said, I’m disturbed that Father Z seems to be agitating for ANOTHER mid-east war when we can barely afford to pay our servicemembers.

  23. Supertradmum says:

    Where are the Men of the West to fight real Crusades instead of computer games? Too many Catholics in America are asleep and have been. This will come to us, eventually, unless the fake Catholic pacifist idea ends.

  24. Sonshine135 says:

    The Middle East is a powder keg. It always has been and always will be until our Lord returns. The influences in the Middle East extend all the way to Washington D.C., Moscow, and Beijing. End of story. Islam is a false and evil religion. It has proven itself to be this way time and time again. You have men and women who will not stop until every last Jew and Christian are dead, and extends from one hemisphere to the other. It is a religion of conquest and of war. You can either deal with it now, or deal with it when it is on your doorstep. I have been to the Middle East, and I have seen how Muslims deal with people. Either way, while we dither about whether America, or the world for that matter, can afford another war, the Muslims will march on relentlessly. That march may also be through Mexico into the United States. Unfortunately, there seem to be several of the opinion on the blog today that believe these are just peace-loving, Catholic Latinos. As usual, this is entirely incorrect. Included in the mix are criminals. Why not terrorists?

    Lord, we pray for the conversion of those who follow Islam, that they may be consecrated to your most sacred heart. We ask this through Christ Our Lord. Amen.

  25. LarryW2LJ says:

    I agree with Sonshine135 – ignoring the facts won’t make the facts go away.

  26. Magash says:

    The Middle East has not always been a powder keg. It was a peaceful a prosperous Christian area for hundreds of years before Islam came along and started converting Christians by the sword.
    Try to remember that the Crusades, badly implemented as they were, were a defensive response to Muslim aggression. Aggression which was only halted in Europe through the intervention of the Holy Mother herself at the battle of Lepanto in 1571.
    Eventually the secular West will fall. It has no moral roots and is in the process of self-destruction, moral, political and economic. When that eventually happens so-called “moderate” Muslims will face the same fate as secularist in these strongly Islamic nations and only “true believers” will be left. At that time Christians will have a choice to make, either to take up arms, like the Cristero of Mexico or to endure dhimmitude.

  27. SKAY says:

    tzabiega–Your comment does not mention that Hamas is part of the problem. I am sure you are aware of who they are –a terrorist group–and what they have vowed to do. They are not interested in a two state solution. Unfortunately the Palestinians voted to include them in their governing body.

    http://www.catholic.com/magazine/articles/hitlers-mufti
    A little history of the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem prez(well before Israel came a state) and during WWII from a Catholic site. Yasser Arafat of the PLO was his nephew and leader of the Palestinians for years.

  28. Imrahil says:

    Dear Supertradmum,

    Where are the Men of the West to fight real Crusades?

    I’m not saying that there is no decadence in the West. But I do think that let’s wait until we have a real and obvious just war case, with all of its criteria (including proportionality and the fact that government wants it), and judge then whether our men are capable of fighting, and whether those who did not learn to fight are capable to show their good intention by dying (not direct suicide of course). In the meantime, we simply do not know: there is no possibility to fight a Crusade, at this moment.

    (Which isn’t the problem for the first time, of course.)

  29. Fiat Domine says:

    On the following comment, which was mine, I need to make clear that I meant your HUMOROUS comments, Father Z – I hope nobody thought I was talking about smiling about horrific things.

    “Fiat Domine says:

    25 July 2014 at 12:12 am

    Father Z,
    I just have to say that I am so glad that God has given us availability to your thoughts and comments, because in this crazy world and Holy Mother Church being mutilated for so many years, and being heart broken over it all, when I come to your blog and read your (HUMOROUS) comments about these horrible things, my heart just has to smile again and now I can go to sleep. Good Night Father Z. and thank you.”

  30. SKAY says:

    “Israel became” sorry.

    I do not mean that Israel is perfect because there are problems on both sides–but there is more to the history of this area that is never pointed out. It did not start with the holocaust and the creation of Israel. 9/11 and seeing Palestinians in the streets cheering was a real awakening for me.

    I agree with Sunshine’s comment.
    We know that there are not just”children” coming across the border. There are many who are not from Central and South America. Along with that, many of the 16 and 17 year olds who are considered “children” are MS13 members complete with tattoos who admit to criminal acts in their home countries but are allowed to go free within the US to recruit for their gangs and prey on unsuspecting US citizens. These are not “migrants”–they are illegally coming into our country.

  31. kurtmasur says:

    Adam Welp said: ” One can be Catholic and be against Universal Healthcare. Free healthcare is not a right.”

    I reiterate that I shape my political views from the point of view of Christian principles and what Jesus taught during his ministry. If we deny universal healthcare to all and thus leave millions of uninsured, I don’t know how we as a society will respond to Jesus when he tells us “I was sick, but you didn’t care for me.”

    Similarly for the immigration issue, how will we respond to Jesus if he tells us “I was a stranger and you gave me no welcome” (Matthew 25: 41-43)? Indeed let us not forget that at one time Jesus and the entire Holy Family itself were strangers in Egypt, and I am willing to bet they had illegal status.

    Just because I am pro-life, an issue championed by the “right”, does not mean I have to adopt the other issues espoused by that side, ie. being anti-immigration, anti-universal health care, pro-guns, of which there is nothing inherently Christian about such positions. Similarly, the “left” is no angel either. Yes, they are pro-poor, pro-immigrant, but, they are not pro-life. I take what is inherently Christian from both sides and end of story.

    Anyways, my whole point in my original post was that I come to this blog to learn about issues pertaining to the Holy Mother Church and things related to the TLM and Summorum Pontificum, etc. If I want to get a dose of partisan politics all I have to do is visit any secular political blog, or visit the comment sections of Fox News, CNN, etc.

    May the good works of our Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI continue to give fruit!

  32. at this point Iraq is a mess because of Obama.
    Magash wrote,

    “It was a peaceful a prosperous Christian area for hundreds of years before Islam came along and started converting Christians by the sword.
    Try to remember that the Crusades, badly implemented as they were, were a defensive response to Muslim aggression.

    exactly.
    It’s a religion of piece all right.Question:where are these moderate Muslims?
    Hamas,Hezbollah,Iran.All the same and they all want the destruction of Israel(first)and the U.S. second.
    As for partisan politics;if you’re not pro life you’re not getting my vote.
    You boo the mention of God at your convention that’s pretty much all i need to know.I’m pro 2nd amendment right;not ‘pro gun.’ The immigration problem is not a simple one where it’s a matter of throw them all out or let them all in.
    As for the left being ‘pro poor.’ Don’t think so. am not a Rep or Dem.Conservative and Catholic.Period.
    Very simple:islam is the problem. I’m not sure there is such a thing as a moderate Muslim.

  33. BTW,Israel could nuke any country if they wanted to.They show great restraint.

  34. The Cobbler says:

    Let’s frame the “universal healthcare” problem a little differently… how about:
    1) Access to necessary healthcare is a universal right. Note the extra qualifier, and the rearrangement of qualifiers. (For what it’s worth, I consider “necessary” more broad than “essential”. One can classify some things as essential and some things as inessential in general, but even generally inessential things may be necessary for the life or rights of an individual in specific circumstances. If you disagree, substitute “essential” where I have “necessary”.) Note also that this makes no statement about what sort of right, if any, is healthcare above and beyond what is strictly necessary — say, for example, if my seasonal allergies ultimately harm me not, what sort of right I have to medicine that reduces them would be a separate matter from the sort of right I have to life-saving treatment.
    2) Is insurance healthcare? Does it guarantee healthcare? Does lack of it guarantee lack of healthcare? The terms are used interchangeably, but should they be? Are there better ways to universally guarantee needed healthcare than insurance? Can there not be?

    As for immigration, kurtmasur, you might end up having a more interesting discussion here if you acknowledged that the position of your opponents is not blanket anti-immigration (however you may characterize the Republican Party, which is not relevant unless somebody here claims to align themselves with it). It may not be as pro-immigrant, compassionate or any number of other things as your position, of course, but the problem here is such details simply aren’t being discussed: How do we deal with criminals while treating legitimate immigrants with the compassion they deserve, both in charity? And is the answer different for criminals in general (drug smugglers, traffickers in the sex trade, violent gang members, and potentially terrorists who aren’t even ultimately from the region they’re entering the US through) than for those whose only crime is immigrating outside of the regulatory system (which, setting aside how things currently are in practice, in theory *should* exist to protect and assist both the non-criminal immigrant and the native populace and society, per the Catechism’s statements that people have the right to seek a better life through immigration and more prosperous nations have the duty to help them so but also the right/duty to regulate immigration for the common good)? We could all have a thorough and, yes, Christian discussion of such issues if we wanted. At the end of the day, dismissing another’s position as political instead of engaging it in detail is little better than holding a partisan political position oneself, inasmuch as it still doesn’t help both sides figure out the truth because it still clouds the matter with politics.

    As the Dominicans say, “Never deny, rarely affirm, always distinguish.”

    And… apologies for the large parentheticals. I’d try to fix that, but I fear in the attempt I’d only make the paragraph even messier than it is with them…

  35. Kerry says:

    Kurtmasur. Hello. “We as a society” will not stand naked together at the last judgement, being asked about ‘universal health care’. And the current ‘immigration crisis’ is nothing about immigration, and to believe that a country must not enforce its own laws because “I was a stranger and you gave me no welcome” is not prudence. (The waves of immigrants who passed through Ellis Island were medically examined, and not bundled up in buses to be dropped off in the various states; nor were their examiners told to keep quiet about any diseases. Brilliant electrical engineer and mathematician Charles Steinmetz, with hip displasia, dwarfism and a hunchback was almost kept out of the U.S. I forget who, but someone of great stature vouched for him.)
    Dittos to the Cobbler above.
    Oh, and Kurt, opposed to guns? Don’t own one.

  36. The Cobbler says:

    One more thing…

    “Indeed let us not forget that at one time Jesus and the entire Holy Family itself were strangers in Egypt, and I am willing to bet they had illegal status.”

    What are we betting? Because with sufficient effort I can find people who could determine what was Egyptian law of the time with regard to immigration, which is, you know, how we’d know this sort of thing and not just be guessing about it. Of course, if the law allowed some immigration but not all unconditionally, we’d have to do a lot more work to have any idea whether Jesus, Mary and Joseph would have fallen afoul of it. In any case, it’s not a matter to make an argument about without actually attempting to find out with some historical research.

  37. acardnal says:

    Syrian Catholic bishop explains the situation in Iraq: Islamic militants and Mosul: http://youtu.be/4ETkv1ZXEB8

  38. acardnal says:

    Syrian Catholic bishop explains the situation in Iraq: Islamic militants and Mosul: http://youtube/4ETkv1ZXEB8

  39. kurtmasur says:

    Well, I live on a border town with Mexico and I have seen first-hand the immigration issue….right at my doorstep, literally. On a few occasions real, actual illegals from Mexico and Honduras have passed by our house (and with a scorching heat outside) asking for food and water. What is one supposed to do? Act according to Jesus’ teaching and feed those people when they were hungry and give them water when they are thirsty? Or say “hold it right there” and turn them in according to law?

    Yes, as somebody pointed out, the US is a country of laws, but unfortunately those same laws allow for contraception and abortion to take place. If we choose to follow the law in regards to those Honduran aliens, are we also going to respect the law in regards to the abortion issue? Are we picking and choosing when to apply the law and when not? Btw, I do agree that something should be done to weed out violent criminals amongst the aliens, but they form but a tiny fraction as a whole…I’ve lived on the border for quite a few decades and I am still here to talk about it!

    With regards to the Palestinians, I sympathize with them, in particular our fellow Arab Christians who are suffering directly through the cruel loss of their homes being blown up by the Israelis. For these same reasons, I am also deeply angered by isis and what they have done in Mosul, and what has gone on in Syria, especially against our Christian brethren. I am angered by Obama’s pro-rebel position in Syria. Common sense should be applied to what is happening and steps should be taken to achieve peace in the region….of which I strongly doubt could be achieved by supporting radical islamic rebels over the established government of Assad (for example). But I digress.

    Anyways, I think we can agree to disagree with regards to issues that are associated with the “right”, especially pro-guns. Some here are pro, others are anti….to each their own. Everybody has their reasons for being either for or against. Again, my point is that I wish this blog were not the place to hold such debates or show displays of partisan politics, supporting (or opposing) issues (such as guns) that have nothing to do with the Catholic Church, the TLM, ecclesiastical latin, the Vatican, or just simply Christian principles. When I think of this blog, which at one point was called “What Does the Prayer Really Say”, and subsequently “Reading Francis Through Benedict”, I associate it with all things Catholic and expect to see topics that are Catholic in nature….not secular.

  40. kurtmasur says:

    @Kerry
    Kerry wrote: “Kurtmasur. Hello. “We as a society” will not stand naked together at the last judgement, being asked about ‘universal health care’.”

    Yes, good point,we will not stand naked together at the last judgement. But let us not forget that there were instances in the Bible in which entire societies as a whole collectively faced the wrath of God (Sodom and Gomorrah anybody? Nineveh almost had it). But anyways, perhaps each person individually may have to respond at the final judgement why he/she voted for politicians that were anti-universal healthcare or anti-immigrant, assuming that that person in fact voted for such a Congressman, or simply had such political viewpoints. In the same manner, aren’t Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden barred from taking communion (and thus separated from God) simply by being “pro-choice”?

  41. jflare says:

    kurtmasur,
    In your comments, you have twice mentioned how you view current circumstances through the eyes of what you think Christ would’ve taught. …Or an idea near enough to that.
    Yet for all that you insist that you lean neither right nor left–I’ve heard that before too–I’m forced to say that you seem to me to lean decidedly leftward. Your analysis also seems to be comparatively superficial.
    I must remind you that if it’s the case that law in this nation allows for abortion and whatnot, this does not mean that we ignore immigration law if we wish. Admitting to the existence of a moral abomination within our borders does not constitute a mandate that we shred the book of the law. Rather, many seek to alter the moral depravity of our law, while also fighting a cultural invasion. Both endeavors are just.
    I’ve seen many comments from yourself or bishops about how we need to help these people. I’d like to remind you that these problems have existed for some time now; if you or the bishops believe that conditions elsewhere create serious humanitarian needs, you or they have been quite free to make arrangement to address those needs there. That such has not happened, but we seem intent on providing for needs here suggests that we aren’t as concerned about humanitarian needs as many wish to insist.
    I don’t think the criminal element is nearly as insignificant as you seem to insist. Tough to say for certain about hard numbers, but when I’m hearing that drug cartels have functionally “claimed” areas of land north of the border as their own–even posting signs to that effect–I’m inclined to consider such to be a threat, probably a serious one. … And that even assume that such is the only problem, which does not appear to be the case.
    More than anything else, I’m sick of hearing about how we’re some kind of slime if we oppose this immigration scheme. There are any number of means we could choose to address these problems that don’t involve de facto invasion of the nation.
    …And don’t get me started on the cultural impact it’ll have….

    As to health care, I don’t agree that opposing PPACA constitutes an opposition to universal health care provisions. If anything, I think most opposition tries to remind people that we don’t need government to assume responsibility for whole chunks of the economy to provide care. Instead, as the Republicans tried to make clear, we could easily address many reasons for why health care became expensive in the first place.
    PPACA essentially places a giant band-aid over everything and says that government can do it.
    Reality demonstrates a very different story.

  42. SKAY says:

    Kurtasur said-
    ” In the same manner, aren’t Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden barred from taking communion (and thus separated from God) simply by being “pro-choice”?”

    “simply by being pro choice” —- ????? They separated themselves Kurtasur.

    Being pro abortion(or the “politically” correct word–choice) means you are OK with the killing of an innocent human life. It has no moral equivalence to the other two issues you mention. The Church has spoken out clearly on this issue. This Democrat administration is giving large sums of taxpayer money to Planned Parenthood(abortion providers) under the guise of healthcare. Pelosi and Biden are fine with that. Biden fought hard to keep Roe v Wade from being overturned when he was in the Senate as a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee.

    Nancy Pelosi(by the way–a very wealthy political person) also mentioned in one of her little chats to the media recently the idea of Jesus and the Holy Family being immigrants or refugees. It obviously seems to now be a Democrat talking point.
    What is happening at the border is definitely a political issue caused by very political politicians. They are overwhelming the resources without providing more for a reason and it has nothing to do with being Christian.

  43. samgr says:

    I expect Mrs. Pelosi to be ignorant of history, but can I remind everyone that Bethlehem and Egypt at the time of Our Lord’s birth were both under one imperium, that of Rome? And while I’m fulminating, both Arabs and Jews are descendants of Shem, making both groups Semitic. A more accurate description of those who doubt the wisdom of a militant Jewish political entity in the Holy Land is anti-Zionist.

  44. Since the American administration is arming and funding the chaos in the Middle East, I don’t expect the U.S. to aid any of the persecuted. Also I assume Russia is sneakily adding to the flames so that Putin will look like a rescuer and move in at the right time.

    Perhaps the time for politicking is over, and serious prayer and fasting is more appropriate. Pray the 15 Mysteries of the Rosary.

    As far as taking sides, all sides have evil segments with very dark objectives. I suggest being careful about touting one side or the other as especially wronged or innocent. There are men of good will on all sides, but unfortunately these reasonable people are irrelevant apparently, as all are in the shadow of the New World Order.

    In Scripture, Israel can be identified as a prefiguration of the Church. Reading Amos, Hosea [Osee], Isaiah, etc its pretty clear that the Church will be destroyed, except for a miraculously preserved root or remnant, because of sins. Watching this horror unfold, and seeing the possible destruction of the current Israel, brings to mind similar representations in the Douay-Rheims Bible and the layers of significance.

    Am I the only one wondering, Israel today, Rome tomorrow?

  45. kurtmasur says:

    “simply by being pro choice” —- ????? They separated themselves Kurtasur.
    Being pro abortion(or the “politically” correct word–choice) means you are OK with the killing of an innocent human life. It has no moral equivalence to the other two issues you mention.”

    I agree, it has no moral equivalence to the other issues I mentioned. But that does not mean that we will never have to respond during the last judgment for being anti-immigrant and anti-universal healthcare. Jesus was clear in his teaching found on Matthew 25: 41-43, about telling us whether we welcomed him or not when he was a stranger, or cared for him or not when he was sick.

    “Nancy Pelosi(by the way–a very wealthy political person) also mentioned in one of her little chats to the media recently the idea of Jesus and the Holy Family being immigrants or refugees. It obviously seems to now be a Democrat talking point.”

    So it is just nothing more than an idea (or Democratic talking point) about Jesus and the Holy Family being refugees? I thought the the Gospel was very clear about the fact that Jesus and the Holy Family were in fact refugees in Egypt. Or am I missing something here? Are the Scriptures exaggerating with regards to the Holy Family’s purpose of stay in Egypt? Let us not allow our political affiliations to get in the way of Scriptures, an all too common pitfall.

    I urge everybody here to give priority to all that is Christian, to all that Jesus taught, rather than to give priority to all the political positions that a certain political side stands for… whether that side be “left” or “right”.

  46. jflare says:

    kurtmasur,
    Seems to me your comments would have more merit if they didn’t insinuate that anyone who disagrees with your viewpoint must almost certainly be halfway across the doorway into mortal sin.
    You are correct in declaring that Christ was quite clear about obligations towards other with regard to immigration and health care. You are anything but correct in insisting that you or the Democrats have the authority to define how those obligations must be met.
    If you want to cause people to cease pushing political affiliations, it would be good if you’d persuade those varying political factions to knock it off with misappropriating moral ideals to suit their agendas.

  47. SKAY says:

    Kurtmasur–
    “But that does not mean that we will never have to respond during the last judgment for being anti-immigrant”
    Being pro LEGAL immigration is not anti immigration as you imply.
    The Holy Family certainly were refugees — and we also know why.
    These people are not refugees. Drug cartels and sex traffickers are helping many to the border–for large sums money. Others a from countries with terrorist ties among many other nationalities other than hispanic–or with extensive criminal backgrounds. They are being brought into other areas of the country and left at facilities without even letting state officials know.Thugs are being released. US citizens are not being protected from crime much less disease. Schools are starting–and we have failing schools as it is.

    This has been created by the words of very political people for political reasons– and to ignore this is more than naive.
    Yes–if it comes out of Pelosi’s mouth –it is always political–and calculated. Particularly if it is through the news media.
    “anti-universal healthcare.”
    As someone said–the problem with Socialism is that pretty soon you run out of other peoples money. Have you paid any attention to the problems in our Veterans Healthcare system run by the government right now? They paid a lot of bonus money to bureaucrats lying about their work–while vets were dying waiting for care. And you think the gov. will do any better handling the whole country’s healthcare? Actually the VA was created to do all good things(universal healthcare) for for those who truly deserved it and the actual recipients could be accounted for–but once gov. bureaucrats who can’t be fired get involved you begin to have problems
    It is great to live in an ivory tower that you cannot afford–until it falls from lack of maintenance.
    We already see what a boondoggle Obamacare is–and it is just the beginning. Some really good US doctors are retiring or leaving their professions early. They see the handwriting on the wall.

    I thought we -as Catholics and Christians were supposed to pay attention to the laws of the country we live in also Kurtmasur. If you break the law to come in, it shows you do not respect the laws within the country to begin with.
    You are then asking respect from people you yourself do not respect.

  48. Reconverted Idiot says:

    Kerry

    I’m not sure if you’re correcting me, or adding to my point, or what.
    Fwiw, nothing you write contradicts what I think regarding ‘eternal truth’. My comments regarding philosophy are very much constrained to that discipline, and were intended as illustrations of my philosophy concerning such ‘propositional structures’ as men, from time to time, expound. Truth may not change, but our understanding develops, and — if we are doing it properly — should proceed towards truth. Reason, properly used, takes us from truth to truth. Nailing oneself to a particular name, or ‘secular doctrine’ as it were, e.g. “I’m a Kantian”, reflects — and has long reflected to me, even in my atheist days — a stagnancy of thought, an inability to see the flaws as well as the good.

    “Make sure of all things, hold fast what is good.” That’s all I intended.

    Best wishes.

  49. Reconverted Idiot says:

    robtbrown: I recommend not recommending beginners philosophy books to people who have been immersed in it for nigh on 30 years. Come on, at least try to see my point.