Bp. Athanasius Schneider on the recent Synod’s final document: “radical neo-pagan ideology”

His Excellency Most Reverend Athanasius Schneider, Auxiliary Bishop of the Archdiocese of Saint Mary in Astana, Kazakhstan, had an interview with a Polish news outlet. HERE. He speaks with his usual forthrightness, to the point of being blunt.

I am tempted to say, “Enjoy the clarity and honesty now, friends. Who know how long it will last?”

Here is the first question and answer, with my usual emphases and comments:

Q: Your Excellency, what is Your Excellency’s opinion about the Synod? What is its message to families?

A: During the Synod there had been moments of obvious manipulation on the part of some clerics who held key positions in the editorial and governing structure of the Synod. [Without question.  And we should be happy that it was unmasked.] The interim report (Relatio post disceptationem) was clearly a prefabricated text with no reference to the actual statements of the Synod fathers. [“no reference” is not quite right, not as far as the whole thing is concerned.  But the troubling paragraphs were prepared ahead of time.] In the sections on homosexuality, sexuality and “divorced and remarried” with their admittance to the sacraments the text represents a radical neo-pagan ideology. This is the first time in Church history that such a heterodox text was actually published as a document of an official meeting of Catholic bishops under the guidance of a pope, even though the text only had a preliminary character. [Creeping Incrementalism] Thanks be to God and to the prayers of the faithful all over the world that a consistent number of Synod fathers resolutely rejected such an agenda; this agenda reflects the corrupt and pagan main stream morality of our time, which is being imposed globally by means of political pressure and through the almost all-powerful official mass media, which are loyal to the principles of the world gender ideology party. [What does this remind me of? “Through some crack the smoke of Satan has entered into the temple of God.” – Paul VI, 1972] Such a synod document, even if only preliminary, is a real shame and an indication to the extent the spirit of the anti-Christian world has already penetrated such important levels of the life of the Church. This document will remain for the future generations and for the historians a black mark which has stained the honour of the Apostolic See. [BUT… it isn’t all only grim…] Fortunately the Message of the Synod Fathers is a real Catholic document which outlines the Divine truth on family without being silent about the deeper roots of the problems, i.e. about the reality of sin. It gives real courage and consolation to Catholic families. Some quotations: “We think of the burden imposed by life in the suffering that can arise with a child with special needs, with grave illness, in deterioration of old age, or in the death of a loved one. We admire the fidelity of so many families who endure these trials with courage, faith, and love. They see them not as a burden inflicted on them, but as something in which they themselves give, seeing the suffering Christ in the weakness of the flesh. … Conjugal love, which is unique and indissoluble, endures despite many difficulties. It is one of the most beautiful of all miracles and the most common. This love spreads through fertility and generativity, which involves not only the procreation of children but also the gift of divine life in baptism, their catechesis, and their education. … The presence of the family of Jesus, Mary, and Joseph in their modest home hovers over you”.

[…]

There’s a lot more.  For example:

By admitting the “divorced and remarried” to Holy Communion those bishops establish a new tradition on their own volition and transgressing thereby the commandment of God, as Christ once rebuked the Pharisees and Scribes (cf. Math 15: 3). [It is ironic that the liberals who want to depart from tradition and the norms of Christ’s words in Scripture, accuse those who defend tradition as being “Pharisees”.  It is ironic that “rigid” and “ideologue” is now code for “defender of the Church’s teaching”.] And what is still aggravating, is the fact that such bishops try to legitimize their infidelity to Christ’s word by means of arguments such as “pastoral need”, “mercy”, “openness to the Holy Spirit”. Moreover they have no fear and no scruples to pervert in a Gnostic manner the real meaning of these words labeling at the same time those who oppose them and defend the immutable Divine commandment and the true non-human tradition as rigid, scrupulous or traditionalist. [There it is.] During the great Arian crisis in the IV century the defenders of the Divinity of the Son of God were labeled “intransigent” and “traditionalist” as well. Saint Athanasius was even excommunicated by Pope Liberius and the Pope justified this with the argument that Athanasius was not in communion with the Oriental bishops who were mostly heretics or semi-heretics. [Isn’t that one of the reasons why that Bishop in Paraguay was removed from his diocese? He didn’t get along with the other bishops of the region.  Do I remember that incorrectly?] Saint Basil the Great stated in that situation the following: “Only one sin is nowadays severely punished: the attentive observance of the traditions of our Fathers. For that reason the good ones are thrown out of their places and brought to the desert” (Ep. 243).

 In fact the bishops who support Holy Communion for “divorced remarried” are the new Pharisees and Scribes because they neglect the commandment of God, contributing to the fact that out of the body and of the heart of the “divorced remarried” continue to “proceed adulteries” (Math 15: 19), because they want an exteriorly “clean” solution and to appear “clean” as well in the eyes of those who have power (the social media, public opinion). However when they eventually appear at the tribunal of Christ, they will surely hear to their dismay these words of Christ: “Why are you declaring my statutes and taking my covenant in your mouth? Seeing you hate instruction, and cast my words behind you, … when you have been partaker with adulterers” (Ps 50 (49): 16-18).

[…]

 

Check out Bp. Schneider’s book Dominus Est!

CLICK!

About Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Fr. Z is the guy who runs this blog. o{]:¬)
This entry was posted in The Coming Storm, The Drill, The future and our choices and tagged , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

43 Responses to Bp. Athanasius Schneider on the recent Synod’s final document: “radical neo-pagan ideology”

  1. greenlight says:

    Scary and uncertain times. On one side the reaction (broadly) is: The sky is falling! Schism! Heresy! On the other side (broadly): Nothing to see here. Everything’s fine. “The gates of hell…”. In the middle (broadly): Worry and apprehension but ultimately “Wait and see”.

    What I’d really like is for all sides to start laying down some markers. What would be the *least* that would cause you to rethink your position? The ‘everything’s fine’ crowd will say “well obviously if Francis comes out and tries to infallibly define an outright heresy then of course that would be very bad”, but no one is really suggesting that that’s very likely. The ‘schism’ side will say “well obviously if he turns around and fires Kasper and says it was all an elaborate ruse to flush out the heretics then obviously…” but again, that’s not very likely.

    What are people genuinely afraid of? What is the *least* that can happen to confirm your fears and what will you do then? What is that the *least* that can happen that would make you realize you were wrong?

  2. Joseph-Mary says:

    Well, it might be difficult to exile him any further away and if I recall, he is an auxiliary bishop so perhaps not be deposed or demoted as what can happen for speaking up for the truth these days.

  3. McCall1981 says:

    Card Muller recently had some good things to say as well:
    Vatican’s Müller: Bishops Being ‘Blinded’ by Secularism
    http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/vatican-doctrine-secularism-marriage/2014/11/04/id/605133/

  4. tcreek says:

    Bishop has an appropriate name for our time.
    This from last June – “We are in the fourth great crisis of the Church”

    http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/features/2014/06/06/bishop-athanasius-schneider-we-are-in-the-fourth-great-crisis-of-the-church/

  5. MouseTemplar says:

    Oh thank Heaven!

    Not only can he rock a message, he was comforting as well–here, at the end of the interview, he quotes St. Augustine: “In midst of the crisis of the Church and the bad moral and doctrinal example of some bishops of his time Saint Augustine comforted the simple faithful with these words: “Whatsoever we bishops may be, you are safe, who have God for your Father and His Church for your mother“ .

  6. Midwest St. Michael says:

    Fr. Z,

    I am sure you know by now this fine bishop has a new book available now available in the U. S. called “Corpus Christi”.

    From the description: “This book is a passionate plea for the faithful and the clergy to be aware of the supreme importance of receiving Our Lord with the appropriate preparation, devotion and reverence.” (It is not available at Amazon in English as yet.)

    See it here (scroll down a tad). https://www.opusangelorum.org/Books/Books.html

    No coincidence on the heels of the Synod, the bishop’s interview and the availability of his book in the U.S!

    MSM

  7. Son of Trypho says:

    @Joseph-Mary

    The new Patron of the Sovereign Order of the Knights of Malta might need a personal secretary – there is always something that can be done to remove unwelcome colleagues…

  8. Mike says:

    I read the book Fr. Z has up–it’s excellent. Please Lord, send us more bishops like this one!

    Also, Cardinal Muller spoke at the Catholic University in DC yesterday…wondering if anyone attended who comments here, or if his text is available. Tomorrow, Kasper speaks at the same university–he is getting an award. Grrr.

  9. rcg says:

    OK, is this guy the boss, or what?

  10. rcg says:

    OK, is this guy the boss, or what?

  11. CharlesG says:

    Dear Father Z.,
    I believe the title to this post is potentially misleading. Bishop Schneider said the Synod’s interim report reflected “a radical neo-pagan ideology”, not the final document. Let’s not put the good bishop into needless trouble.

  12. RJHighland says:

    He is just stating the obvious to any Catholic, sad that he and only a handful of other bishops are willing to state it this clearly. He speaks with the clarity of an SSPX bishop.

  13. donato2 says:

    Outstanding interview. Someone should send it to Ross Douthat. It might buck him up a bit.

  14. iteadthomam says:

    What a great Bishop! Here are some additional comments on this interview. http://consolamini.org/2014/11/05/comments-on-bishop-schneiders-interview-against-pharisees/

  15. Traductora says:

    Very interesting. Confusion is clearly the word of the day. My first words when I heard that Apb Bergoglio had been elected were, “this is a disaster.” But when he announced his name as Francis, I thought perhaps I’d just overreacted to what I’d read about him, so I thought I should just take a deep breath and focus on the good. And then he said some good things. And then he said some bad things. And then he said some totally unintelligible things. And now I’m completely confused.

    I’m not even thrilled about this supposed “conference on complementarity” which was originally billed as a conference on marriage (or was suggested as such by Muller, I believe). If the Pope is inviting Muslims, the relationship is clearly not anything that can be considered Christian marriage (between ONE man and ONE woman). If he’s inviting every heterodox Protestant group in the universe (heterodox even by average Protestant standards), most of which are fine with gay “marriage,” transsexuals, etc. because gender is a social construct and therefore complementarity depends on society’s definitions and the individual’s choice, then he’s not even addressing the issue in any way that can be construed as orthodox Catholic or even Christian.

    Sandro Magister had a very good article about the Bologna school (http://chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it/articolo/1350916?eng=y), which, like everything to do with Pope Francis, is a blast from the past. ( I feel as if we should be hearing the music from “Happy Days” in the background.) The Bologna school theologians are all long in the tooth, but Francis has revived them. Their movement is an indifferentist movement, everything and everyone is the same, whatever you want to do is cool, and the codgers left over from Vatican II who supported this nonsense have somehow ended up in charge. And looking for revenge.

    Abp Schneider is absolutely right and I hope he survives this – God grant him many years.

  16. Mojoron says:

    As these issue’s matriculate, what is the pew catholic to do? Of us who stay informed and can maneuver through the maze, I worry about those who follow the personalities and not the theologies of those leaders who are living on the edge of schism. I would hate that the un/under informed be left behind because they are tribalists (one who follows the personalities, e.g. Obama-ists) instead of being of independent thought and action. I had never realized until I read Fr. z’s rants and raves, that there was a hidden society in the Vatican, call it ignorant, but I am not alone in that observation. The great Catholic Society of average, pew sitters, God loving, rosary praying parishioners are the real leaders in this church. I would hate to see them be led by a homosexual priest who marries whom he likes and tends to the flock in a haphazard and immoral manner.

  17. marcelus says:

    RJHighland says:
    5 November 2014 at 7:21 pm
    He is just stating the obvious to any Catholic, sad that he and only a handful of other bishops are willing to state it this clearly. He speaks with the clarity of an SSPX bishop.

    Indeed, It has been less then 2 years under PF. It is like a boiling kettle now or on it’s way to boiling.How much longer will traditionalists be able to live under PF?

    At this pace, forget the laity, we can speak out loud, at this pace with a Bishop or Cardinal making statements like this, true or not. on a weekly basis, it is only a matter of time before one hits directly on Pope Francis . So far, they have not fully directed their comments to the Pope. Schism may be around the corner I’m afraid.

  18. iteadthomam says:

    I haven’t been able to find that basil quote , epistle 243. It’s simply not there when I go to that epistle. Help anyone?

  19. oldcanon2257 says:

    Athanasius Schneider most definitely IS a bishop of the Catholic Church.

    Why am I stating the obvious? Well, he obviously acts like a bishop, dresses like a bishop, speaks like a bishop and teaches like a bishop (in the same manner as the early Church Fathers).

    I am amazed at the clarity with which he speaks. I can see why they’re keeping him far away from Rome, for the clarity of his teaching alone would be a major obstacle to their agenda.

    Please, Lord, if His Excellency does not make it to the Chair of Peter, then if it is Your will, please let whoever Your Vicar is at that time pick this wise and loyal successor of the Apostles to be the new Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

  20. Raymond says:

    Amidst all the confusion in this papacy, I am heartened by a couple of things:
    1) We have the internet and social media: I know, it’s amoral. It can be used both for good and evil. But, at least now we have transparency and no single cleric can be completely silenced, even if he were exiled to Timbuktu.
    2) Blind obedience is pretty much dead: This is true for both sides. The Left is by nature anti-authoritarian. Those of us on the Right have over the years been educating ourselves with orthodox formation in doctrine and liturgy. We cannot be fooled by wolves in sheep’s clothings; even if those wolves wear mitres.

  21. Cradle Catholic says:

    I second what Donato2 says “Outstanding interview”.

    If Father Z allows, I’d like to post a link to another outstanding interview by
    Christine Niles who “welcomes Benedict Nguyen, professor of canon law at Ave Maria University, and former chancellor under Raymond Cardinal Burke. He discusses his thoughts on the Kasper proposal, the false dichotomy between mercy and law, and options for the divorced and remarried.”

    http://blog.reginamag.com/benedict-nguyen-canon-lawyer-thoughts-synod-mercy-law/

    I found this relatively long (23 minutes) interview beautifully done. Now, when people talk to me about how the Church emphases doctrine and dogma over ‘mercy’ …I will refer them to this interview. …

  22. Fr. W says:

    It was the Pharisees who came to Jesus and asked him if a man could divorce his wife. Kasper and that crowd are the Pharisees, their story is in the Holy Scriptures…..

  23. John Grammaticus says:

    Actually his Excellency’s Book CAN be obtained from Amazon (in the UK anyway), I’ve been privileged to meet this Holy Bishop twice now, even talk with him for about 5-10 minutes.

  24. Fr. Vincent Fitzpatrick says:

    Just a reminder: All Bishop Schneider’s powerful words about the paganism demonstrated by calls for giving Communion to gay couples and adulterers are equally true of the practice of giving Communion to ANY notorious sinners. The SPECIES of the grave sin being committed by the notorious sinners approaching for Communion is absolutely immaterial.

    On Monday, Cardinal Sean O’Malley presided at the funeral of a pro-abortion, pro-same-sex-marriage mayor of Boston. The church, naturally, was packed with hundreds of pro-abortion “Catholics,” including John Kerry, Joe Biden, etc., etc. On his blog, the Cardinal slathered the late mayor with fulsome praise for his “faith.”

  25. JBS says:

    Many faithful seminarians persevered to ordination only by keeping quiet in the tolerable seminaries, or even adopting false personas in the worst ones. This prudent necessity continues itself for priests in very many dioceses today. The question then arises, will there be some point at which priests must take a public stand with the likes of Bishop Schneider against the efforts of certain other ecclesiastics? One gets the impression that Our Lord is allowing things to come to some sort of crossroads. I think we at least have to recognize that the Western Church cannot continue to operate as she has for the past few decades.

  26. Charles says:

    @iteadthomam: the quote is there in 253, but translated differently if you’re looking at newadvent: “The one charge which is now sure to secure severe punishment is the careful keeping of the traditions of the Fathers. For this the pious are exiled from their homes, and are sent away to dwell in distant regions.” (http://newadvent.org/fathers/3202243.htm)

  27. Fr. Vincent Fitzpatrick says:

    This is the first time in Church history that such a heterodox text was actually published as a document of an official meeting of Catholic bishops under the guidance of a pope, even though the text only had a preliminary character. [Creeping Incrementalism]

    I would have called it “incremental creepism.”

  28. Jonathan Marshall says:

    God bless Bishop Schneider. We need more like him – lots more!

  29. Urs says:

    “A: During the Synod there had been moments of obvious manipulation on the part of some clerics who held key positions in the editorial and governing structure of the Synod. [Without question. And we should be happy that it was unmasked.]”

    Yes , it has been unmasked! Unfortunately, the confusion caused by the synod has cleared up my confusion. Much of what Pope Francis has said in his papacy has left me confused. I think that I may have been confused because I have been trying to see what he says through the light of Tradition. I have prayed MANY times asking for clarity. ( I do not think I will pray for that AGAIN! It is right up there with praying for patience for me now.) I am ashamed to say and loathe to admit that I think that one of those holding key positions concerning the obvious manipulation is the pope himself. I am afraid that this is also his agenda. I fervently hope that this is not one of ‘God’s surprises’ that he talks about. There is a long list of reasons that have contributed to my coming to this conclusion . I shall not attempt to list them here. I feel guilty for even thinking this way.
    As for the quote about smoke entering the temple of God, I feel like I am about to succumb to smoke inhalation.
    I thank God for Cardinal Burke and for Bishop Athanasius Schneider …and for you, Fr.Z.

  30. Venerator Sti Lot says:

    Charles has pointeed out what I found, too, by turning to New Advent before reading down to his comment: they are the third and fourth sentences of paragraph two.

  31. gracie says:

    My initial reaction: Oh dear, the “powers that be”, after reading this interview, will be exiling Bishop Schneider to an out-of-the-way place like Kazakhstan . Then I realized he’s already there :-)

  32. paladin says:

    Raymond wrote: We cannot be fooled by wolves in sheep’s clothings; even if those wolves wear mitres.

    :) That reminds me of St. Anthony of Padua (the “Hammer of the Heretics”, despite his feminized statues); once, when he was giving a sermon in the presence of a corrupt and worldly bishop, started his sermon by pointing to the bishop and saying loudly, “You, there, in the mitre!”

    I can’t help but think of that, when well-meaning people breathlessly berate, chide, and try to hush people who seek to admonish sinful and erring bishops…

  33. John Grammaticus says:

    By the way, is there any theological loophole by which we could clone his Excellency ? :)

  34. tcreek says:

    Michael Voris – 34 minute interview of Bishop Athanasius Schneider – “Vatican II Must be Clarified”, June 2013 – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8iBeaGeuxw

  35. jacobi says:

    Bishop Schneider is an exceptional man. He talks sound, orthodox, clear, informative Catholic teaching in conformity and Continuity with the Magisterium of the Church.

    He will emerge more and more as a solid rock standing steady and resolute against the tide of secularism, heterodoxy and relativism sweeping through the Church at present, involving many clergy and laity.

    His earlier call for a Convention or Council with the express objective of clarifying and/or correcting the many ambiguities and false understandings, intentional or deliberate, of Vat II must be listened to.

    It is now clear to all that the Relativist and therefore heretical forces that were at work during Vat II have re-emerged in the Synod, and have been only barely held in check in the interim summary. These Relativist forces will be at work ceaselessly during the coming year and we must watch every utterance for what you have called, Father, “creeping incrementalism”.

    Fortunately, these Relativists are not supported by the Holy Father. I read his, albeit very wordy summary address to the Synod Fathers at the conclusion of the Extraordinary Synod on the Family, very carefully.

    Pope Francis confirms the indissolubility of marriage. That those in illicit and sinful arrangements may, indeed are required to attend Mass, but not receive Holy Communion under pain of Mortal Sin. Catholics have the option of celibacy whether married or otherwise, if they wish to receive Holy Communion. Gradualness is becoming holy first and only then, that is being free from Mortal Sin, exercising the option of receiving Holy Communion.

    Nevertheless we must all be on our guard against any and every utterance by these people in the coming year.

  36. Sconnius says:

    It’s funny how mercy is brought up by those who would change the Church, but when looking at their own practices of mercy, how much it is lacking…

    http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/for-german-bishops-mercy-comes-at-a-price-critics-charge-64855/

  37. Fr. Vincent Fitzpatrick says:

    Catholics have the option of celibacy whether married or otherwise, if they wish to receive Holy Communion.

    Married people do not have the option of celibacy. The word wanted here is “continence.”

  38. Diane at Te Deum Laudamus says:

    Father Z – I agree with CharlesG when he says the title of your post is misleading. He is not talking about *the* Synod report, but the interim when he called it a “radical neo-pagan…”

    More than enough leftist sources will cause grief to Bishop Schneider as they twist things out of context. They don’t need help. ;)

  39. tcreek says:

    Bp. Athanasius Schneider —
    “Such a synod document, even if only preliminary, is a real shame and an indication to the extent the spirit of the anti-Christian world has already penetrated such important levels of the life of the Church. This document will remain for the future generations and for the historians a black mark which has stained the honour of the Apostolic See.”

  40. Urs says:

    @Fr. Vincent Fitzpatrick ,
    I think that you are a breath of fresh air. We have needed ‘in church’ catechesis on Communion, especially ‘receiving Communion’, for a very long time. MANY people have been and are receiving communion ‘unworthily without discerning the Body’. I think that most people do not know or understand the teaching…but what of their pastors? I guess after so long a time of these abuses , many Bishops no longer believe the teaching of St Paul of ‘eating and drinking condemnation’ or the rich teachings of the Church regarding Communion, Marriage and/or Sex The understanding of the Church and her Teachings…and even of Jesus Christ himself by the ‘Spirit of Vatican II’ crowd is defined by a hermeneutic of rupture. This has been one of the devils greatest tools of the last century. The people caught in the snares of this ‘spirit’ sincerely believe that they are right. It IS a great deception. I cannot help but wonder if this could be the origin of both the great apostasy and the confrontation that JPII spoke of in his prophetic speech in 1976. Of course… I could be wrong about this and most likely I am wrong….but still, I cannot help but wonder…
    “We are now standing in the face of the greatest historical confrontation humanity has gone through. I do not think that wide circles of the American society or wide circles of the Christian community realize this fully. We are now facing the final confrontation between the Church and the anti-Church, of the Gospel and the anti-Gospel. This confrontation lies within the plans of divine providence. It is a trial which the whole Church… must take up” (Cardinal Karol Wojtyla (St. JOHN PAUL II) to the American bishops in 1976, quoted in the Wall Street Journal, Nov. 9, 1978 (three weeks after his election as Pope).

  41. Urs says:

    @Fr. Vincent Fitzpatrick ,
    I think that you are a breath of fresh air. We have needed ‘in church’ catechesis on Communion, especially ‘receiving Communion’, for a very long time. MANY people have been and are receiving communion ‘unworthily without discerning the Body’. I think that most people do not know or understand the teaching…but what of their pastors? I guess after so long a time of these abuses , many Bishops no longer believe the teaching of St Paul of ‘eating and drinking condemnation’ or the rich teachings of the Church regarding Communion, Marriage and/or Sex The understanding of the Church and her Teachings…and even of Jesus Christ himself by the ‘Spirit of Vatican II’ crowd is defined by a hermeneutic of rupture. This has been one of the devils greatest tools of the last century. The people caught in the snares of this ‘spirit’ sincerely believe that they are right. It IS a great deception. I cannot help but wonder if this could be the origin of both the great apostasy and the confrontation that JPII spoke of in his prophetic speech in 1976. Of course… I could be wrong about this and most likely I am wrong….but still, I cannot help but wonder…
    “We are now standing in the face of the greatest historical confrontation humanity has gone through. I do not think that wide circles of the American society or wide circles of the Christian community realize this fully. We are now facing the final confrontation between the Church and the anti-Church, of the Gospel and the anti-Gospel. This confrontation lies within the plans of divine providence. It is a trial which the whole Church… must take up” (Cardinal Karol Wojtyla (St. JOHN PAUL II) to the American bishops in 1976, quoted in the Wall Street Journal, Nov. 9, 1978 (three weeks after his election as Pope).

  42. AIP says:

    What’s that Biblical quote? “Unless those days were shortened, it would have confused even the elect”?
    Douay-Rheims Bible
    “For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect.”
    Somehow, God is testing this generation … to see if His promise to “prevent the gates of hell from prevailing” against the Church stands true, yet permit even the Vicar of Christ to step to the precipice of unthinkable heresy. We’ll see. Paul VI stepped back from that cliff. Indeed, what transpires may confuse many of us.

  43. Pingback: The Real Synod and the Synod of the Media - BigPulpit.com