FOLLOW UP POLL: 26 Sept 2016 – Trump v Clinton

We had a poll before the 26 September debate.  I had a pre-debate post (with food) HERE.

Who won the 26 September Debate?

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Did the debate change anything?

Was there anything that happened during the debate that moved the needle for you?

After watching the 26 September debate...

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And…

After the 26 September debate

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Anyone can vote, but if you are signed up you can use the combox.  Think and breathe first.

 

Please share!

About Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Fr. Z is the guy who runs this blog. o{]:¬)
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55 Responses to FOLLOW UP POLL: 26 Sept 2016 – Trump v Clinton

  1. Absit invidia says:

    I would encourage those voters supporting Clinton to review the Catholic Voters Guide and ask yourself how is Clinton a prolife candidate?
    https://www.ewtn.com/vote/brief_catechism.htm

  2. MarkJ says:

    A vote for Clinton is a clear vote for the continued slaughter of the innocents worldwide and for the taxpayer funding of it. It is a clear vote for the promotion of deviancy worldwide with taxpayer funding. And it is a clear vote against true marriage and against the family. For these reasons, I could never vote for Clinton.

  3. CradleRevert says:

    I’m voting Trump, but I have to say that I think Hillary won the debate overall. Trump dominated the first 25 minutes, and if he would have maintained that energy throughout I think the debate would have been a blowout. Unfortunately, Trump is not good at going on the defensive, so the last 70 minutes of the debate was just him falling down the stairs.

  4. The debate illustrated the difference between a seasoned politician and someone who isn’t.

    Trump is going to need a lot of help overcoming normal human reactions of a manager and think like a politician.

    The debate didn’t change my outlook but did increase my indignant disgust of Hillary pointing fingers and insulting Trump when she herself should be in prison. What a different debate it might have been against the more gentlemanly Bernie [no I don’t support his socialist viewpoint].

    Trump seemed to be prepared for debate – while smirking Hillary the politician seemed focused on embarrassing the opponent.

  5. MichaeltDoyle says:

    It’s not just how antithetical the democratic party is to life. The healthcare policies are virulently anti-catholic. Attempting to shut down Little Sisters of the Poor because they want to not provide an occasion of sin (condoms) to their employees? How is birth control a compelling interest for the state? Birth control is not health care; preventing a birth does not prevent a disease. Yet the compelling interest of the Sister’s conscience is up for judgement by the state? Brought to you by today’s Democratic Party. The Church deserves a voice in the public square and the right to perform services according to her beliefs. If this world view fostered by Democratic party partisans and judicial appointments and SJWs is allowed to continue, the gospel will be harder and harder to see in the public square. This election is more than just about abortion as weighty an issue as that is.

  6. Giuseppe says:

    I thought Mr. Trump performed poorly after a strong start. He just seems like he would be bored out of his mind as president. He doesn’t seem to have thought through most issues. The more I see him the more he seems like a con man.

    I don’t have to vote for him, since my state is solid blue, so I can write in someone (Scott Walker or Ben Sasse).

  7. allenmurphy says:

    Trump was a disaster- interrupting, not prepared, terrible on taxes. Will vote for him as a conscience vote against Clinton but he will be slaughtered.

  8. CPT TOM says:

    The last hour of the debate was horrible for both Hillary and Trump. Trump succumbed to his worse instincts and was drawn into being defensive and a verbal barbarian, crude and rude, and Hillary, while sure she could give facts and figures, came across as robotic and unlikeable. There is a smugness there that is most annoying, the type you wish someone would knock out of her. But Trump didn’t do it last night if you’re into that. I think Trump needs to be better prepared for the personal attacks, and I don’t think anything will make Hillary more “likable” or “Trustworthy.” She is the obvious pro-abortion SJW candidate, and an un-indited felon. Not going to vote for her. Will probably vote for Trump with reservations. I am still concerned about his mercurial streak, last night did not help.

  9. pelerin says:

    Did Hillary Clinton really say that Trump had been bankrupted six times or did I mishear? And did Trump not follow up that comment or was a denial cut out of the recording I saw? I find it incredible that voters are prepared to vote for someone who has been made bankrupt six times and if he wins he will presumably be in charge of the finances of the US.

  10. un-ionized says:

    pelerin, he himself has not been bankrupt, several (I have not been counting) of his projects have gone belly up for various reasons, not always mismanagement.

  11. Marc M says:

    It’s human nature to think one’s preferred candidate won. This year, I consider both of these people so reprehensible, so lacking even the barest minimum of human decency, that my intestinal stability is compromised by building materials at the thought of either one of them in a position of the slightest modicum of authority.

    That said, I don’t have a preferred candidate, so I watched with an unfamiliar sense of detachment. I disagree with most of this morning’s pundits who say Hillary had a winning night. So what if fact checkers gave her a better score? She just lies with greater finesse. Nobody that matters, cares. The only people reading fact checkers are already decided. They both called each other liars, and so to the politically disengaged people who will actually decide based on debate performances, that’s a wash. Trump effectively argued that Hillary has spent 30 years being part of the problem. The argument behind his persona is, “who cares what I say? You want different, I’m different. She’s more of the same.” And so help us God, that, if he keeps it up, is going to get him elected.

  12. Pingback: TUESDAY EXTRA | Big Pulpit

  13. pj_houston says:

    Absit invidia,
    Little “c” catholics justify voting for a criminal like hitlary by appealing to the single worse piece of heretical shit to ever rear its ugly head in the last 50 years: Bernardin’s seamless garment. If you want a good example of this destructive teaching in action, go read Mark Shea’s fakebook page.

  14. If a debate was won, today would anybody be able to tell?

  15. un-ionized says:

    Marc, I had to read your building materials thing twice before I realized that is what I need to say when occasion warrants. Very nice. My feeling is the same, I have followed both of these jokers way back, to Arkansas, and to the Section 8 eviction fiasco (anyone for broken window theory?). I keep hoping for a big change that nobody saw coming that changes everything but that won’t happen. We have to what we think is best.

  16. jselson says:

    There was one candidate on the stage who seemed to genuinely care, with a passion, about this country and its citizens, and another who looked and sounded like a robot.

    The elites giving this debate to Clinton don’t know how regular people talk and don’t understand why regular people can’t stand what she represents. I was concerned that he would sound like a loose cannon up there, but I found myself nodding in agreement with him the whole time. He’s not anywhere close to my ideal candidate, but now I’m firmly a Trump vote.

  17. hwriggles4 says:

    I did agree with Trump when he mentioned that the mainstream media is a publicity group for Hillary Clinton. Marco Rubio mentioned the same thing during the Republican debate that the mainstream media is a lobby for the Democratic party.

  18. cl00bie says:

    Trump missed a lot of opportunities:

    1. Hillary mentioned the Real Estate Crash. Trump should have mentioned that was caused by her husband and Andrew Cuomo who was HUD secretary at the time.
    2. Lester Holt teed up “cyber security” and he whiffed it. He should have said: “Cyber Security starts with securing your own server. Not using an unsecured server to avoid oversight by the voters.”
    3. When Hillary was “speculating” about what might be in Trump’s tax returns, he should have immediately countered with: “As long as we’re playing the “speculation game”, Madame Secretary, what might you be hiding in your 33,000 deleted emails? Could it have been a desperate request for help from Ambassador Chris Stevens as he was being murdered in Benghazi? Or possibly what as Secretary of State, you were going to do for your friends in the middle east for their donations to the Clinton foundation. Or maybe, unlike the rest of us who have received these e-mails, you actually GOT $20M from a Nigerian prince.”

  19. Dave N. says:

    I think Catholics who are actively promoting Trump (which to me is different from saying you’ll vote for him) will forever forfeit any credibility on the issue of marriage. But then marriage wasn’t a debate topic and I doubt it will ever come up; because we’ve all moved on to new shiny objects.

  20. Mightnotbeachristiantou says:

    I still will be voting for Darrell Castle. The only pro-life on most of the ballots. On in 25 states, write in on 23 others.
    Castle2016.com

  21. Kathleen10 says:

    I didn’t watch it all, just bits. I started to, but Lester Holt annoyed me right out of the gate with his biased and leading assumptions about our “economic recovery”. (!) The media bias is so strong and most people are not even aware of how leading that is. We need tutorials in how to spot BS, for the average Joe, because the media is a real interference.
    It seemed like Hillary had a decent night, and I say that as someone who finds her personally shrill and annoying and I despise her past actions and her future plans. She would destroy us with immigration, and fill our nation with people who will surely attack innocent Americans. I can’t fathom any American finding her an appealing candidate on any point.
    Trump did well as far as looking more presidential and even at times restrained. But he needs to get his talking points ready to fire. He’s very passionate about this nation and doing the right thing. But he’s not articulate about it. Do Americans want sincerity in thought and action or a glib president? Sadly I think most people want glib, someone who can look good in a suit, is reasonably attractive, and can talk trash with ease. Most people don’t even care what the candidate is saying, they just want it said well.
    He always earns bonus points for sheer “it” factor. He shows up and commands the room. That’s very presidential. He is a leader. He’s not glib, but I believe his heart is very sincere about doing right by this country and our people. As Newt Gingrich said, if he loses he’ll go back to being a happy millionaire with his kids and grandkids. She wants this with every molecule, but she shouldn’t get it.

  22. bar3 says:

    I don’t see how Trump could be judged as the winner of that debate. He was often flustered by the hostile moderator, and even when he wasn’t, his replies made no sense. There is hardly any coherency, if any at all, in his arguments. A perfect example is his response to the question on cyber-security. As one user pointed out above, that would have been a perfect opportunity to hit Hilary for her private server scandal. Instead, he decided to use his 10 year old kid’s computer skills as… what? As proof of his personal commitment to cyber-security?

    Hilary lied through the whole debate. Even assuming Trump told the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, the purpose of a presidential debate is not to present your listeners with logical reason to vote for you. The purpose is to convince them using rhetoric, which is not the same thing as logic. Because Clinton appeared to have much more poise and preparation, she won that debate by a landslide.

    Btw, I have been committed to voting down-ticket or write-in ever since Trump won the nomination. I’ll admit that watching the Hilary debacle has almost convinced me to vote for Trump… but it has not changed the reasons I had for deciding not to vote for him in the first place. This is such a heavy decision, and I have a hard time seeing a clear answer. I can only do as my conscience aided by reason advises, and God forgive me if I’ve chosen wrongly.

  23. bar3 says:

    **Not sure why anyone would listen to the comments of a person who misspells the name of one of the candidates throughout his post… but I hope you gave me the benefit of the doubt. :D

  24. Chris Garton-Zavesky says:

    When he observed that our inner cities are suffering and Blacks are fed up with being taken advantage of, taken for granted, my ears pricked up. He neither presumed Black voters were a block nor that the solution is more “enterprise zones” or “lower taxes” or “they need to get over it”, which I’ve heard from other Republicans over the years. It was like having Bobby Kennedy in the room: “they need help, and we give them a check”, he said in criticism of the Great Society.

    I also liked the example of Dallas, in terms of police-community relations.

  25. New Sister says:

    a little pep talk from Rush –
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOgsCExSi0g

  26. Akita says:

    Pray, tell, what does “intestinal stability compromised by building materials” mean? Can’t figure that one out. Thanks.

  27. Chrisc says:

    Dave N. and perhaps others, it is clear that Trump is an imperfect man who will probably not do much to foster the social reign of Jesus Christ. So, I understand voting for someone who you think will do that. I have no problem with that. But the argument that supporting Trump renders one unable to speak on marriage is risible. Would that he were a paragon of virtue —- but don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good, as they say. If he can knock Clinton, and this whole neo-‘conservative’ crooked regime of Bushes and Clintons out…. that I can support. I am not opening a cause for his canonization, I am electing someone to lead our country who recognizes and wants to clean out the Augean stables (read D.C.), even if he doesn’t realize that it is the modern liberal rejection of reason and natural law that led to all the horse—t in the first place.

  28. Absit invidia says:

    pelerin,
    The scales of justice weighs far heavier with the issue of abortion and religious freedom than bankruptcy.

    The Fifth Commandment reads Thou Shall Not Kill. There is no Commandment that reads Thou Shall Not Have Projects Go Bankrupt.

  29. JARay says:

    Both my son and I watched our television here in Australia. The outcome of this debate has absolutely nothing to do with what is happening here in Australia and yet the first item of news on our TV was this wretched debate between Trump and Clinton. We were both completely annoyed that this was counted as being the headline news here. As it happens I certainly would not want that wanton woman to win. But… it has nothing to do with us! I am absolutely certain that a debate between Malcolm Turnbull and Bill Shorten would not be headline news in the USA. In fact, I’d bet that you would never have heard of either of them.

    [What happens at that level in these USA makes a difference everywhere.]

  30. iamlucky13 says:

    I had no illusions about any genuinely useful information coming out in the debate (I think Father Z has cited a few articles about the decline of critical thinking and the ability to debate constructively). I’ve perused a few followup discussions like this one in case I was mistaken, and out of curiosity how others perceive these events. Anyways, that said:

    @ cl00bie
    ” Trump missed a lot of opportunities:”

    On topics like you cite, I have a gut feeling that the reason why he misses easy counters like that is because he doesn’t have a coherent understanding of the topics, which is not exactly a strong indicator of his own likelihood to do better.

    @ Kathleen10
    “but Lester Holt annoyed me right out of the gate with his biased and leading assumptions about our “economic recovery”.”

    Par for the course. Through the entire 7-year long “recovery,” I’ve read probably hundreds of articles gushing about the U3 unemployment statistics, and only one or two that I can recall that discussed the differences between the U3 statistic and the Labor Participation Rate. Only in the last year has the Labor Participation Rate stabilized at 40 year lows.

    @ akita
    “Pray, tell, what does “intestinal stability compromised by building materials” mean? Can’t figure that one out.”

    It’s a less vulgar than normal way of describing a visceral discomfort comparable to a bowel movement involving pieces of masonry.

  31. pelerin says:

    In today’s Daily Mail (GB) there is what I consider to be a brilliant article by journalist Max Hastings following the debate. I will not offend American readers by quoting from it except to repeat his witty remark that ‘Trump is inviting Americans to join Alice in Wonderland in believing six impossible things before breakfast.’

  32. Peter in Canberra says:

    heuristic biases?

  33. tealady24 says:

    She did not. She was perfectly rehearsed, knew all her numbers and did nothing but spew forth all the same-ol’, tired, heard time after time after time garbage that we hear in every election cycle telling us all she will do. She is a disaster in waiting and if you wish to see this country turn completely Socialist then give her your vote. That will be the first of many things you will be handing over to the government!

  34. Kerry says:

    From Angelo M. Codevilla’s essay, After the Republic, at Claremont Review of Books:

    “The ruling class having chosen raw power over law and persuasion, the American people reasonably concluded that raw power is the only way to counter it, and looked for candidates who would do that. Hence, even constitutional scholar Ted Cruz stopped talking about the constitutional implications of President Obama’s actions after polls told him that the public was more interested in what he would do to reverse them, niceties notwithstanding. Had Cruz become the main alternative to the Democratic Party’s dominion, the American people might have been presented with the option of reverting to the rule of law. But that did not happen. Both of the choices before us presuppose force, not law. ”
    As is said, read the whole thing.

  35. LarryW2LJ says:

    I did not watch the debate except for some small snippets here and there. The “winner” is not important to me. I dislike both candidates, one more than the other. I am willing to toss the dice and take my chances with Mr. Trump. He is not perfect, in fact he is far from it. However, Jesus is not running for POTUS, so I cannot vote for Perfection. That being said, I cannot and will not vote for someone (HRC) who:

    1) Feels the 5th Commandment is more like the “5th Polite Suggestion”, and who believes the unborn have no Constitutional rights or protections. But I am willing to bet that during her administration, euthanasia would become a Constitutionally guaranteed right.
    2) Was fired from the Select Committee investigating Watergate for unethical behavior
    3) Won an acquittal for a rapist by browbeating his under-aged victim while on the witness stand.
    4) Lied to Congress and the FBI – numerous times.
    5) Looked the parents of one of the soldiers who died in Benaghazi and lied to them about that debacle being brought about by to “a video”.
    6) Has proven (at least IMHO) that she can’t handle the 3:00 AM call

    And a host of other reasons. But I am a Catholic who happens to be American; and not an American who happens to be Catholic – so, as I stated before, I cannot in good conscience vote for Hillary Rodham Clinton.

    At this point, there’s only One who can save this country, anyway. I hope you’re all making frequent use of your rosaries for that purpose.

  36. DonL says:

    The issue must be not only which imperfect candidate we must vote for, or against, but must include the good or evil supported by the party itself.
    I hold that no Catholic can vote in conscience for a Democrat candidate unless he/she is openly opposed to the evils of their party–a party that openly is by default embracing evil like a terminal cancer. Such a person could never achieve candidacy is that abhorrent party.
    I have an abhorrence in voting for either party, but until the GOP openly embraces abortion, the sale of black baby parts, sexual perversions, violations of the Principle of subsidiarity, anti-family, (unless it is a perverted form) free-lunches that create dependency under the guise of charity, and a ruling government that seeks to control our religion, or drive it into the catacombs again, and, oh yes, that deadly pride that so-called elitist liberal Catholics own collectively when they hold themselves to be sophisticated and knowledgably gnostic, cannot be ignored.
    There is no moral equivalence between these party’s stated beliefs, and yes, we must recall that man is imperfect, but “we are either with Him or against Him,” third party games notwithstanding.

  37. TimG says:

    The debate, predictably, was pretty much a waste of time. Once the liberal media was chosen as the moderator, it should have immediately been cancelled.

    Regarding who to vote for – folks, I am one of the many who’s “guy did not win the primary.” I have to look at the big picture, and I encourage you to do so as well. Please consider what voting for HRC, or another write in candidate, or not voting at all will get you.

    If HRC is our president, she will take what Obama is doing and ramp it up another level. Does anyone not know where she stands? The predictions are that we will need 3 new Supreme Court justices in the next four years. Does anyone not know where HRC will lean when it comes time to nominate?

    Versus Trump, who while personally not the candidate I wanted to run, has at least surrounded himself with a SOLID team. Does anyone think that these people aren’t carefully considering his positions before supporting him? Does anyone think that after the election, he is suddenly going to pitch the whole team and go rogue? Why would he do that? Does anyone think he (who has a huge ego) is not going to want to win re-election?

  38. AnnTherese says:

    The debate was every bit as satisfying as I’d hoped! (Though I did worry a bit that Trump might hyperventilate–his breathing pattern was rather alarming. The rumors revolve around drug use, but maybe simply nerves?) I think we were given a realistic preview of how each of these people would present as President. Looking forward to the rest of the debates!

    Trumps response to the question about his critique of Clinton’s “looks” did make me laugh out loud. How he translated “looks” to “stamina” is fascinating. If he’s going to regularly insult the appearance of women, he could at least own up to it (yes–they both lie!)–even if he can’t admit such comments are rude, shallow, and worthy of a 7th grader. Her response to him got a big AMEN out of our crowd! Oh, Donald.

  39. The Masked Chicken says:

    “I think Catholics who are actively promoting Trump (which to me is different from saying you’ll vote for him) will forever forfeit any credibility on the issue of marriage. But then marriage wasn’t a debate topic and I doubt it will ever come up; because we’ve all moved on to new shiny objects.”

    Trump is not Catholic and does not share our understanding of marriage. This is a non-issue and does not forfeit a Catholic’s credibility regarding marriage. It is a frank realization that Catholics and Protestants view marriage, differently, which, by the way, is so significant that it led to contraception and abortion bring enshrined in law, but one cannot fault Trump for being raised Protestant and being invisibly ignorant of the Catholic understanding of marriage.

    The Chicken

  40. boxerpaws63 says:

    my word. Where to start and keep this as brief as possible.
    “I thought Mr. Trump performed poorly after a strong start. He just seems like he would be bored out of his mind as president. He doesn’t seem to have thought through most issues. The more I see him the more he seems like a con man.”
    Mr Trump was put in a tight box to begin with. Had he legitimately attacked Sec Clinton (which he didn’t do as much as he could have)he’d have been perceived as bullying a woman. The moderator was in Clinton’s corner and some reports put up Holt’s interruptions of Trump as high as 41.Clinton had 7. Trump got 6 follow up questions.Hillary got NONE. In short,he was debating both Mrs Clinton and Lester Holt and had to do so carefully.However,polls show he won over more UNDECIDED’S and that was probably the goal. Hillary had to prove she was likeable.Trump had to prove he was plausible. She failed. He didn’t.
    “I don’t have to vote for him, since my state is solid blue, so I can write in someone (Scott Walker or Ben Sasse). ” Nobody has to vote for anyone but the truth is Walker and Sasse are not the candidates. On Nov 8th there will only be 2 choices and only one of them will be our next President. It won’t be the write in.

    “Trump was a disaster- interrupting, not prepared, terrible on taxes. Will vote for him as a conscience vote against Clinton but he will be slaughtered.Did Hillary Clinton really say that Trump had been bankrupted six times or did I mishear? And did Trump not follow up that comment or was a denial cut out of the recording I saw? I find it incredible that voters are prepared to vote for someone who has been made bankrupt six times and if he wins he will presumably be in charge of the finances of the US.”
    That’s one of the arguments the Clinton campaign uses against him. I’m not sure what you mean by he’s terrible on taxes? Yes,he’s had bankruptcies. He wasn’t MADE bankrupt. Businesses file for bankruptcies for GOOD reason. http://www.realworldlaw.com/benefits-of-business-bankruptcy/
    So Clinton’s Pay for Play and lying to Congress,the American ppl and the families of the fallen in Benghazi isn’t?( And that’s JUST the tip of the iceberg.I could write for an hour on all the scandals the Clinton’s have been involved in,even recently).I’m flabbergasted.
    “I still will be voting for Darrell Castle. The only pro-life on most of the ballots. On in 25 states, write in on 23 others.” Castle is not going to be elected President. On Nov 9th it’s either going to be Clinton or Trump.
    “Btw, I have been committed to voting down-ticket or write-in ever since Trump won the nomination. I’ll admit that watching the Hilary debacle has almost convinced me to vote for Trump… but it has not changed the reasons I had for deciding not to vote for him in the first place. This is such a heavy decision, and I have a hard time seeing a clear answer.” I hope I can help because the clear answer is that either Clinton or Trump will be President come Jan and Hillary is so corrupt that once she’s elected she appoints judges and justices,raises taxes,opens the flood gates to illegals and refugees.You see her very first act in office will be Amnesty for illegals assuring her of re-election in 2020.Count on it. If you think Obama persecuted Christians,imagine what Hillary can finish up for him. I can think of at least 10 other reasons that in good conscience for not letting her anywhere near the White House.
    ‘Trump is inviting Americans to join Alice in Wonderland in believing six impossible things before breakfast.’Such as? Lower taxes,school choice,ENFORCING the immigration laws that have been ignored, repealing the Johnson amendment, RIPPING UP Obama’s executive orders and REPEALING Obamacare. All doable. Alice in Wonderland is believing that Clinton will be anything but corrupt. She’s funded by George Soros and was mentored by Saul Alinsky.You really don’t need to know anymore than that.
    “The rumors revolve around drug use, ” This one is an outright LIE by Howard Dean. Mr Trump uses neither alcohol or drugs and pounded this ethic home to all his children. His brother died of alcohol abuse and it affected him profoundly. His other brother is a prof at MIT. He is so opposed to drug use it isn’t funny. I can’t believe Dean even attempted to get that started-they must be desperate.
    My personal feelings about the debate. In a matter of speaking Trump won because he did what the campaign had hoped he would do.Come off plausible to a certain demographic. I think the American people lost; if the media weren’t in the tank for Clinton we would have gotten a far better debate where the things that really matter would have been brought up.My other observation is that-seemed to me-Hillary was given the questions BEFORE the debate OR the Clinton campaign gave their questions TO Holt before the debate. Tell me they weren’t. I am absolutely convinced it happened.

  41. For those pining for a politician to promote Catholic topics, its a high ideal for sure and something I long for as well.
    But up to now, Catholic, non-Catholic, or just plain leaning towards rule of law and morality, has anyone succeeded in overturning Roe v. Wade? What exactly has changed as a result of Catholic influence? Our laws are getting worse, more evil, in case you haven’t noticed.

    We are faced with only two viable candidates. Not voting or voting for some write-in or third-party means a loss of your vote against the worst candidate. This is how the Clinton crony McAuliffe won Virginia in a very tight race – he won by the 2 percent that voted for the Libertarian instead of a very conscientious Republican. McAuliffe is now undoing the good that our past Republican governor achieved, including great economic growth.

    The debate did not change Hillary’s history. Debate or no debate, I’m leaning towards the candidate that might buy us a little more time, doesn’t have the political past of suspected murder, cover-ups, cronies in jail, treasonous sharing of classified information, promotion of horrendously evil laws.

    I wish this all could be different. But it is what it is.

    In the meantime let’s pray the Rosary for the conversion of our nation, and that the Will of God be done. [even if the Will of God permits a terrible evil that just might open our eyes?]

  42. boxerpaws63 says:

    “I think Catholics who are actively promoting Trump (which to me is different from saying you’ll vote for him) will forever forfeit any credibility on the issue of marriage. But then marriage wasn’t a debate topic and I doubt it will ever come up; because we’ve all moved on to new shiny objects.”
    I’m guilty of actively supporting Trump. Of course I’m going to vote for him;but it also depends very much on whether a majority of other Americans also vote for him.
    Mr Trump is not Catholic so he obviously isn’t going to have the same understanding of marriage as we do.
    I’m hopeful he will come to some understanding of our faith-praying he does. I KNOW where Clinton stands when it comes to Christian values. Not good.
    It seems like some are getting their view through the eyes of the media.I turned the TV off months ago. Seriously-other than occasionally watching Sean Hannity at 10:00 and some devotions on EWTN we’re saving on electricity. My husband watches Gunsmoke and Bonanza.
    If you want UNFILTERED info-or at least some way to balance it out-there is rsbn.tv or if you do not know where Mr Trump stands on issues(other than Dean’s accusation of coke use)go to his website.It’s all there. donaldjtrump.com At least hear BOTH sides.

  43. f4irBear says:

    “Did Hillary Clinton really say that Trump had been bankrupted six times or did I mishear? And did Trump not follow up that comment or was a denial cut out of the recording I saw? I find it incredible that voters are prepared to vote for someone who has been made bankrupt six times and if he wins he will presumably be in charge of the finances of the US.” From what I’ve learned, Trump has had six business not personal chapter 11 bankruptcies, and a couple of those were high risk casino properties in Atlantic City. In all, Trump has started, purchased, invested in, or lent his name to, over 500 businesses, so six bankruptcies out of 500 is less than 1% failure rate.

  44. iamlucky13 says:

    @boxerpaws63
    “On Nov 8th there will only be 2 choices”

    False!

    @ Tina in Ashburn
    “We are faced with only two viable candidates.”

    False!

    Sorry to give in to the compulsion to shout, but this is important. It has been claimed that the two main party candidates *combined* are like by less than a majority of voters. The only reason either of them stands a chance of getting elected is logic like the above.

    In this cycle more so than any other, it’s indefensible that anybody view this as a two-candidate election. If most democrats weren’t cowards and had maintained their support for Sanders after their own party leaders betrayed them, it could effectively have been a 4 candidate election.

    “http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/gary-johnson-november-ballot-50-states/story?id=42081756”

  45. DD says:

    Trump has had literally hundreds of businesses. Six is a remarkably small percentage of that. Chapter 11 bankruptcy is a common restructuring business practice. It’s an indication that he is a good businessman.

  46. DD says:

    Boxerpaws63, you are completely correct and so have saved me a lot of typing. I don’t know how anyone who has watched any of his rallies can’t see that Trump is the obvious choice. For me, he is not the lesser of two evils. I like Trump.

  47. DD says:

    Well put.

  48. boxerpaws63 says:

    “In this cycle more so than any other, it’s indefensible that anybody view this as a two-candidate election. ” REALITY CHECK. On Nov 9 we will be saying either Pres Elect Trump or Pres Elect Clinton.Period.End of story

  49. Imrahil says:

    That’s an election I’m glad I have no vote in.

    I didn’t watch the debate, it was at some 2:30 am local time where I live, but I did see some minutes of it. Going to watch more if I get the time for educational purposes

    What I did see so far so far confirmed my views, which, in somewhat brief, is this: The vote is between one either stupid or, which would be worse, pretending-to-be-stupid man bordering on craziness that has positively decided to disregard basic human values such as being-nice and having good intentions*, with the slight hope that the party affiliation he chose will bring him to support some good politics on important issues he himself cares nothing about and does not even pretend to care much about, on the one hand; and one woman who holds totally erroneous views on said important issues and who wants to be CinC but disregarded rules about information safety every recruit learns in boot camp, but who is at least subjectively of good intentions and also things that basic human values (such as being nice) are to be adhered to (though she doesn’t come over as very nice, nevertheless).

    [* That is only sneered at because human nature is wounded but not wicked (as we learned in catechism class); hence, most people still are nice and of subjectively good intentions, and so people do not think it is a big deal. And maybe in a race where such qualities are unanimously shared by all participants, which is true in most cases, someone could say it isn’t. But in principle, it is.]

    I know I repeat myself, but the author of the German national anthem wrote among other things another text to the same tune (the tune of the then Austrian imperial anthem “God protect”), called the Syracusaise, and it describes the situation imho pretty nicely:

    “God protect our worthy tyrant, our tyrant Dionys!
    Though of joy his reign is empty, and of sorrows full it is,
    still I pray: long may he live yet! Ardent cry my prayer is:
    God protect our worthy tyrant, our tyrant Dionys!
    God protect our worthy tyrant, our tyrant Dionys!”

    An old lady in the temple said this prayer once back then,
    lo! the tyrant was then passing, asked what she was doing and
    said: “Oh please, my worthy lady, tell me ’bout your prayer’s end?”
    “Oh, I just came here for praying, for Your Majesty’s sake I went.
    Oh, I just came here for praying, for Your Majesty’s sake I went.

    When I was a lass, young, pretty, often was my prayewikirhymer.com/words/cameAugust Her’s aim:
    ‘Oh dear Lord, give us one better”, and still worse a tyrant came:
    And there came a third and fourth one, with more hateful each a name:
    So what I pray now is only: May God keep to us at least the same.
    So what I pray now is only: May God keep to us at least the same.”

    (August Heinrich Hoffmann von Fallersleben)

  50. SKAY says:

    guans,

    Thank you for the link to this Townhall article.
    http://townhall.com/columnists/lizcrokin/2016/07/10/trump-does-the-unthinkable-n2190160

    I did know about Mr. Trump helping the Marine who was in the Mexican jail long before
    he started running for President and I did not hear about it from Trump.
    It is information that the MSM will ignore.

    The Clinton foundation has taken money from those who would benefit from
    favorable decisions from the US State Dept. and the President of the US. The have taken money from countries who do not treat women or those belonging to other religions besides Islam very well.
    Under this administration alone our national debt has increased 10 trillion dollars and is still climbing. She has promised to continue Obama’s policies.
    http://nypost.com/2015/04/26/charity-watchdog-clinton-foundation-a-slush-fund/

    “The Clinton Foundation’s finances are so messy that the nation’s most influential charity watchdog put it on its “watch list” of problematic nonprofits last month.

    The Clinton family’s mega-charity took in more than $140 million in grants and pledges in 2013 but spent just $9 million on direct aid.”

  51. boxerpaws63 says:

    The vote is between one either stupid or, which would be worse, pretending-to-be-stupid man bordering on craziness that has positively decided to disregard basic human values such as being-nice and having good intentions*, with the slight hope that the party affiliation he chose will bring him to support some good politics on important issues he himself cares nothing about and does not even pretend to care much about”
    I did watch the debate-then read the transcript.We’re not even going to talk about the joke it turned out to be;but will say they did a good job of protecting Mrs Clinton.
    Mr Trump couldn’t be either too stupid and definitely not crazy. He attended NY Military Academy 1964
    Fordham University 1964-1966
    Wharton School University of Pittsburg 1968
    I will say he IS crazy about one thing.Our country. He obviously isn’t doing this for his aggrandizement, money or power.He has all those. He certainly isn’t doing it for his health.While Hillary is hiding out letting people do her dirty work for her,he’s been on the campaign trail with a grueling schedule.
    I will not sit out the vote. There’s too much at stake and to think of all those men and women who have fought for our freedoms and sacrificed their lives, what is walking in to cast a vote?

  52. Imrahil says:

    Dear boxerpaws63,

    then read the transcript.

    Actually that’s a very good idea which I should have gotten myself but didn’t. Thank you!

  53. boxerpaws63 says:

    You’re very welcome. Meantime i found a facebook comment that’s worth sharing. I didn’t write it-couldn’t say it better.
    Last night a friend claimed that Donald Trump wouldn’t make a good president; he is brash, he is racist, he is a loudmouth; you know the normal things people learn to recite after being programmed by television news. The one I loved was that, “Trump is arrogant.” My friend questioned if one man could make “that much difference in the world today.” To my friend’s credit, she was respectful enough to let me respond when she asked, “Really, what has Trump done?”

    I said, “In June of last year, Trump entered the race for president. In just a little over a year, Trump has single handedly defeated the Republican party. He did so thoroughly. In fact, he did so in such a resounding way that the Republican Party now suffers from an identity crisis. He literally dismantled the party. Trump even dismantled and dismissed the brand and value of the Bush family.

    Trump has Obama petrified that Trump will dismiss programs that weren’t properly installed using proper law.
    Trump has single handedly debunked and disemboweled any value of news media as we knew it—news now suffering from an all-time level of distrust and disrespect.

    Trump has leaders from all over the world talking about him, whether good or bad. Trust me, powerful men who have been president before weren’t liked by the global community. I doubt Mikhail Gorbachev liked Reagan when Reagan said, “Tear down that wall.”

    Trump has expressly disclosed the fraud perpetrated on the American public by Hillary Clinton. He has, quite literally, brought Hillary to her knees—if you believe that nervous tension and disorders offer physical side effects and damage.

    Trump has unified the silent majority in a way that should be patently frightening to “liberals.”
    As the press accuses Trump of being a house of cards, Trump has proven the press is the real house of cards. He has whipped up the entire establishment into pure panic. Trump has exposed them for who they are and worse, what they are. George Clooney was right when he said Trump draws live news coverage of his podium that he’s not yet approached. Thanks, George, you were perfectly correct.

    What we see as headline news today are actually the last bubbles from the ship that is now sunk—meaning the standard news media, as a propaganda machine, has been exposed. They have no more value.

    In the same way Trump asked the African-American community this question, I asked my friend, ”At this point, what do you have to lose?” We have mass cop shootings, riots in our streets, ambushed cops, double digit inflation, bombs blowing up in our cities, targeted police, #BLM, a skyrocketing jobless rate, no economic growth, privately owned land being seized by the federal government, the worst racial tension in my lifetime, no God in schools, more abortions than ever, illegal aliens pouring into our country, sick veterans receiving no care, and a debt that doubled in seven years to $19 trillion. Are you really happy with the condition of the current system?

    One man has done all of this in one year—one guy, and on his own dime. And with everything I’ve written above, you believe Trump hasn’t done anything? You claim that you are afraid of Donald Trump? No wonder we’re in trouble. You can say that Trump is a lousy presidential candidate. That’s your right. Just don’t ever say he’s not effective.

    That Megan Kelly, FOX News, CNN, MSNBC, Washington Post, Rachel Maddow, the Huffington Post, the New York Times, Raleigh’s News and Observer, the AP, Don Lemon, Jake Tapper, and many more, failed to implement their collectively orchestrated lie on the American people against Trump, is actually a massive testament to Trump. The press colluded pure propaganda to accomplish his demise … and they have collectively failed and miserably.

    Here’s just one example of how badly America is injured right now. There are high school football players on their knees during the national anthem simply because the press used as propaganda to program those kids to do that very thing. But, these kids are mimicking NFL stars the same way the same kids chooses which brand of football shoe to purchase—they’re overtly brain-washed to do that very thing.

    Now, we have a generation of children who hate America.
    America’s problem isn’t that little children are on their knee in collective disrespect of America. Our problem is that America is on her knee from collective disrespect by Americans.

    You can disrespect America all you want. But, it’s high-time you respect the silent majority. Because they’re not simply the “silent majority” as you’ve been trained to believe when Hillary calls them “deplorables.” The fact is, they are simply the majority. And now they’re no longer silent either. Donald Trump changed all of that, single-handedly and within one year.” From Be Forbes.”
    Bebe Coe Bertino

  54. WYMiriam says:

    Who “won” the debate? Who cares? When the two candidates that the mass media let into the spotlight — to the nearly complete exclusion of all other candidates — each have no clue how to even debate, let alone have no express desire to return to our constitutional principles, I fear for this country.

    Darrell Castle is the man for the office, no one else, and he will be getting my vote.