Do take a moment to check out the new website launched by the canons at St. John Cantius Church in Chicago.
This is a practical liturgical "how to" site.
Nicely done.
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“This blog is like a fusion of the Baroque ‘salon’ with its well-tuned harpsichord around which polite society gathered for entertainment and edification and, on the other hand, a Wild West “saloon” with its out-of-tune piano and swinging doors, where everyone has a gun and something to say. Nevertheless, we try to point our discussions back to what it is to be Catholic in this increasingly difficult age, to love God, and how to get to heaven.” – Fr. Z
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Absolutely amazing, Father; thank you. You don’t happen to know contact details for Biretta Publishing (I am assuming they publish the translation of the rubrics)?
The pdf Missal on the site does not appear to be the 1962 version, based on the Good Friday prayer for the Jews (page 325/326). My 1958 Missal had removed “perfidis” and changed the rubrics directing not to kneel for this prayer.
Yes. The pdf Missal on the site is not the 1962 version, but somewhat earlier. 1952.
The sanctamissa site is very nicely done. I do wish they had a pdf of the 1962 missal, though. Does anyone know of another site with a pdf of the 1962 missal?
Thank you very very much!
This will help me to get up to speed at least for private Masses
Very classy looking website!
Hopefully this can encourage more priests to offer the Extraordinary Form!
Did anyone click on the link for the dedication? Last in the list was none other than “+Michael Davies.” :-)
Did anyone click on the link for the dedication? Last in the list was none other than “+Michael Davies.” :-)
One friend pointed out that the tutorial at sanctamissa.org includes the second confiteor (before the people’s communion) which was omitted in the 1962 Misal. Any discussion about that? I am not trying to stir up controverseyu, but I wonder how they square that with Summorum Pontificum. Perhaps the Ecclesia Dei Commission will clear it up for us.
Wow! That’s awesome.
One of our young men just left Assumption Grotto for St. John Cantius after being accepted into their seminary.
Deo Gratias!
Sacerdos: The so-called “Second Confiteor” is not part of the 1962 Mass. It should not be done. I just wrote about this in this week’s column for The Wanderer. The article will be available soon. However, as far as that website is concerned, it doesn’t have to be perfect from the start. It has to be useful. It can be corrected along the way. I am also hoping that the Pont. Comm. Ecclesia Dei will issue clarifications on this.
There was a sung second confiteor in Le Barroux the last time I was at Mass there. How do explain that?
The Leonine Prayers after Low Mass aren’t in the 1962 Missal, either, yet most of the Indult Low Masses I’ve attended include them (few of these Masses have included the second (third?) Confiteor).
I’m sure my opinion as a layman doesn’t mean much, but I frankly cannot see the second Confiteor as something to get worked up about.
The excellent book published by Fontgombault on ‘The Holy Mass: Yesterday, Today, and Tomorrow’ speaks of the second confiteor being retained ‘in certain places’, and being appropriate when the people have not participated in the Confiteor at the foot of the altar, due to a sung introit, etc. It also points out that there is always a confiteor before communion on Good Friday. I agree fully with dcs that one shouldn’t become dogmatic about this. Also, I think it is right to say (but please correct me) that the 1962 Missal does not forbid the second Confiteor, but simply does not prescribe it. It would certainly be a great pity never to hear again the hauntingly beautiful chant of the second Confiteor by the deacon at High Mass. Commentor is right about the sung Confiteor at Le Barroux, which I heard only a few weeks ago. The second confiteor is regularly heard in the chapels of the Fraternity and Institute.
Commentator: First, kindly ask questions politely.
Second, I do not explain it. There are no provisions in the 1962 Missal for the Second Confiteor.
dcs: The Leonine Prayers after Low Mass aren’t in the 1962 Missal, either, yet most of the Indult Low Masses I’ve attended include them (few of these Masses have included the second (third?) Confiteor).
The Leonine Prayers take place AFTER Mass. What happens after Mass is not spelled out in detail in the Missal. The Leonine Prayers, once obligatory but no longer, can be considered devotional and can be done.
GD: The excellent book published by Fontgombault…
I really like Fontgombault. Alas, they don’t get to decide these things. The Second Confiteor is not in the rubrics of the 1962 Missal. It was very obviously removed and is not to be done.
It also points out that there is always a confiteor before communion on Good Friday.
That wouldn’t be a Second Confiteor. That would be the only Confiteor in the Good Friday Liturgy.
I think it is right to say (but please correct me) that the 1962 Missal does not forbid the second Confiteor, but simply does not prescribe it.
We cannot simply interpolate into the rites of Mass some elements not provided for in the rubrics. The rubrics describe what is to be done and in what order. There is no Second Confiteor in the rubrics. It is not to be done.
It would certainly be a great pity never to hear again the hauntingly beautiful chant of the second Confiteor by the deacon at High Mass.
We don’t stick things into Mass simply because they are beautiful.
Commentor is right about the sung Confiteor at Le Barroux, which I heard only a few weeks ago. The second confiteor is regularly heard in the chapels of the Fraternity and Institute.
So what? Far and wide there are similar liturgical abuses in churches. For example, for years, Communion was distributed in the hand before permission was given. Altar girls were a liturgical abuse, but finally permitted after years of violating the law. The “Lots Of People I Like Are Doing It” argument doesn’t hold water.
I look forward to an official clarification on this some day. If there is a clarification that it can be done, then great! Let’s all hear the Confiteor for the third time during Mass. No problem. Until then, we should stick to the rubrics.
I think I could very easily point out major liturgical breeches at every Novus Ordo mass I attend. I see almost daily:
1. Blessing children during communion.
2. Celebrant leaving the sanctuary for the sign of peace.
3. Habitual use of extraordinary ministers.
4. Extraordinary ministers receiving Holy Communion apart from the other faithful as though concelebrants.
Interesting that those things continue to go on, but the rubrics police arrive for celebration acc to the 1962 Missal.
Fr. Z. said: “There are no provisions in the 1962 Missal for the Second Confiteor.”
Fr. Z, I am confused — a common occurance for me, believe me.
Anyway, the little red Latin Mass pamphlet published by Ecclesia Dei — used in every Latin Mass parish I’ve ever attended — does have the Second Confiteor. I’ve also served that Mass and been taught to say the Second C. by priests I’ve served for, including Msgr. Ignatio Barreiro and Fr. Ken Baker (not to drop names; just establishing my background).
Anyway, why does the red Ecclesia Dei pamphlet have the Second C? Was there some confusion over which altar Missal one could use prior to July’s MP?
thanks,
Sean Dailey
4. Extraordinary ministers receiving Holy Communion apart from the other faithful as though concelebrants.
At all of the Novus Ordo Masses that I attend in Glasgow the Extraordinary Ministers always receive under both kinds in the Sanctuary after the priest makes his Communion even if the congregation receive under one kind only. Is this unusual?
To be honest, this doesn’t seem like a gross abuse to my non-liturgical eye. However, if truth be told, I’d be quite content if the only form of Mass I were able to attend from now were the Extraordinary Form. I’m fed up with the creative unpredictability that most celebrations of the Novus Ordo contains. I know that’s not how the modern rite should be done. But it is.
I’d much rather concentrate on getting myself and my family to Heaven than be entertained or be forced to feel somehow ‘enfranchised’.
Sean: the little red Latin Mass pamphlet published by Ecclesia Dei—used in every Latin Mass parish I’ve ever attended—does have the Second Confiteor. I’ve also served that Mass and been taught to say the Second C. by priests I’ve served for, including Msgr. Ignatio Barreiro and Fr. Ken Baker (not to drop names; just establishing my background).
I see. They get to makes these decisions. Forget about the rubrics. Let’s read the little red pamphlet.
Well, no, they don’t get to make the decisions, obviously. I just find it odd that a pamphlet published by Ecclesia Dei would have incorrect rubrics. I guess that is what I was trying to say, not that the pamphlet trumps the established rubrics.
See what I mean about confusion being common for me?
Thanks,
Sean Dailey
Dear Father:
Your cage appears to have been rattled!
“We don’t stick things into Mass simply because they are beautiful.” Indeed. But we do think twice about removing things which are beautiful. And that is the case here.
“Communion was distributed in the hand before permission was given. Altar girls were a liturgical abuse, but finally permitted after years of violating the law.” Are you seriously comparing these wretched innovations with the traditional and salutary practice of the confiteor before communion?
At a time when it is important to unite traditional Catholics, I think it is unhelpful to be doctrinaire about this matter. The fact is that many, if not most, traditional communities pray this confiteor, and there is no harm in it. To quote Pope Benedict: ‘What earlier generations held as sacred remains sacred and great for us too, and it cannot be all of a sudden entirely forbidden or even considered harmful.’
In this spirit, my bet is that Ecclesia Dei will say something like: ‘Where it is customary, the confiteor before communion may be retained.’
I hear your arguments, but I consider that in this matter your judgement is not sound. But otherwise, dear Father, know that I think you are doing a fine job. Let’s agree to differ.
Sean P. Daily writes:
I just find it odd that a pamphlet published by Ecclesia Dei would have incorrect rubrics.
Mr. Daily, I think you may be confusing the “Coalition in Support of Ecclesia Dei” (who publishes the red missal pamphlet in question) with the “Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei.”
dcs: I checked, and you are right. My bad.
Hopefully the Coalition will publish a new Summorum Pontificum edition of that red missal.
thanks,
Sean
GD: You seem to be of the “anything goes so long as I like it” school.
If and when the Pontifical Commission makes that clarification, I will be very happy to embrace it, just as I will embrace blue vestments (with antipendium, maniple and chalice and humeral veils, of course) if approved in the future. Until then, however, they are not to be used.
Stick with the book.
Say The Black.
‘Where it is customary, the confiteor before communion may be retained.’ Well, in view of this POSSIBLY being the verdict of Ecclesia Dei, it is as well to maintain the custom for the moment, to allow for its ratification in these terms!
If Ecclesia Dei rules against the confiteor, beware of Fr Z., the great confiteor-inquisitor, burning recalcitrant second-absolutors at an old use chapel near you!
God bless you, Father!
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t the Motu Proprio state that the older use (1962) was not to be used during the Easter Triduum? Which would mean that the older versions of the prayer for the Jewish people on Good Friday will not be said anyway. If so, would someone please tell our Jewish brethren.
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t the Motu Proprio state that the older use (1962) was not to be used during the Easter Triduum?
Indeed you are wrong, as are any various and sundry diocesan officials who have repeated this error, evidently being challenged by both English and Latin.
The pertinent article of the motu proprio said that private extraordinary Masses may not be celebrated during the Triduum (just as private ordinary Masses cannot be celebrated during the Triduum). Thus the motu proprio merely extended to the extraordinary form the previous prohibition of private Novus Ordo Masses during the Triduum.The point is simply that no private Masses of either form may celebrated during the Triduum.
This article said nothing whatsoever about scheduled public Masses during the Triduum. A pastor could celebrate the single parish Mass of Holy Thursday in either form as appropriate for his parish. All TLM parishes, for instance, will certainly use the extraordinary form.