Irish dates and doings

I got a note from a reader with some useful information:

In the wake of the TLM celebrated in Cobh Cathedral on 25 March 2008, some had hoped that this reflected a greater openness to the Holy Father’s mind concerning greater availability of the TLM. However, that expectation – or conversion- might yet prove premature.

– A request was recently made for an occasional Mass in Midleton, Co. Cork. This was requested for the end of May to conclude the Marian month. The request has been refused outright by the PP., Dean Eamonn Goold, who is quickly emerging as the main opposition to the TLM within the Cloyne diocese.

– A previous request for the TLM in Midelton was also refused by him at the end of last year. The request, which was made by a number of people, saw themselves visited in their homes by the zealous Dean in an extraordinary outbreak of pastoral visitation. So far, no action has been taken on either of these cases, but I expect that the good Dean’s efforts will be soon be the subject of a hefty correspondence with Cardinal Dario Castrillon Hoyos.

– A further request has been made for a TLM in Fermoy, Co. Cork, at the end of June. This Mass is to be offered for the Holy Father’s intentions in the vigil of St. Peter and Paul’s. As with Cobh, the titular PP here is the Bishop of Cloyne. Word is still awaited from his Administrator in Fermoy – it is difficult to see how an excuse can be found to prohibit a Mass for the Pope’s intentions in a parish of which the PP is the Bishop of Cloyne – but we await developments.


Also, I will remind you of this conference:

St. Colman’s Society for Catholic Liturgy
Est. 2007

“Benedict XVI and The Sacred Liturgy”

at The Sheraton Fota Island Golf Resort & Spa

On Saturday 12th July 2008.

The Conference will be chaired by Professor Vincent Twomey, S.V.D.
Member of Ratzinger Schulerkreis and author of “Pope Benedict XVI. The Conscience of our
Age: A Theological Portrait” (San Francisco, 2007) (German translation: Augsburg 2006).

Speakers will include:
Professor Manfred Hauke, Lugano Switzerland
Topic: Klaus Gamber, ‘father’ of the ‘new liturgical movement’.

Fr. Uwe Michael Lang
Topic: Sacred Language
Father Lang of the London Oratory is author of "Turning Toward the Lord: Orientation in
Liturgical Prayer." The book was first published in German by Johannes Verlag and then in
English by Ignatius Press. The book has also appeared in Italian, French, Hungarian and Spanish.

Dr. Alcuin Reid
Topic: The Liturgical Reform of Benedict XVI
Dr Alcuin Reid is the author of The Organic Development of the Liturgy (Ignatius, 2005), which
carries a preface by Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger.

Fr. Neil Roy
Fr. Roy visiting Professor at Notra Dame, South Bend, Indiana, USA

Venue is situated on a beautiful island estate in Cork Harbour.
Bookings and Information: The Secretary at
Sheraton Hotel web address:
East Cork Tourism address:
Cobh Tourism address: 

About Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Fr. Z is the guy who runs this blog. o{]:¬)
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  1. George Festa says:

    I asked my parish priest on three seperate occasions and he stated that he’d compromise and say the First Saturday N.O. Mass in Latin. After attending nine First Saturday Masses, I was sure that my request wasn’t taken seriously.

    The parishoners pretty much run the church over there and the masses are pretty
    much “drive-through” with Glory and Praise music (On high holy days they throw you a bone and may do an Latin Hymn every now and then). The priest is really a likable guy and I do not want to report him to the bishop (a bishop who is not TLM friendly – there is only one TLM in the diocese scheduled in the worst neighborhood in Western MA at an inconvenient time
    late Sunday afternoon – 4PM). This priest referred me to another church 30 minutes away where the Mass is reverent and traditional and the priest is gearing up for the TLM. We have changed parishes and it has been a breath of fresh air, as my family and I can worship in a reverent manner without having to worry about what liturigal abuse we’ll be subjected to next.

    Furthermore, the CCD at the old parish was sub-standard it was called “Generations of Faith” whis was a hands-off approach to catechesis (A three-hour communal meal which included about 20-30 minutes of catechism once a month from October through April). The teachers were decrying that the Confirmation candidates didn’t know their basic prayers or list the seven sacraments and actually went so far as to blame the families for not teaching this at home — yes, this does start at home, but should be backed up and deepened by catechism class — not some 3 hour love-fest with little or no substanative catechesis !

    We continue to pray for all who hold and teach the catholic faith which comes to us from the Apostles, all of our priests and prelates that they will address these issues
    and take their vocations seriously and act with reverence at the Holy Altar of God.

  2. Bogdan says:

    All is not yet quite well in the state of Denmark. Was the Bishop of Cloyne just going through the motions last March just to be able to say that the TLM was “cherished” in his diocese while in reality he had no intention of liberalising the terrible record of that diocese. We We await for the outcome of this latest development.

  3. The wisdom of the St Colman’s Society has been questioned, particularly in terms of the remote location of their event. Fota is rather in the middle of nowhere. Why couldn’t they have spent less money and just hired space (on a similarly commercial basis) in Maynooth College, for example? It’s a bit baffling. (Maynooth actually has a Chapel – or three on campus, a fully stocked library and is easily accessible from the nearest major city.)

    If they were determined on a venue in the Cork region, then why not Cork itself? Could rooms not have been rented from the University? Anyway, I’m sure everyone wishes them the best but I think they may end up with fewer attendees that they would like.

  4. Alex says:

    Eamonn Gaines comment on the Fota conference typically reflects the pale mentality of the Dublin pen pushers. No cultural event can happen within a radius of 10 miles of Dublin city centre. T I would not be sure of saying that Fota is in the middle of nowhere. It has international standard facilities and easily accessible. It strikes me a very strange that the Latin Mass Society of Ireland is into advertising Maynooth College and its facilities. If the location is as good as he says, then perhaps he can explain why he (Eamonn Gaines) and the Latin Mass Society of Ireland have never thought of using them for a similar type conference of its own over the past 10 years?

  5. Alex says:

    And as for three chapels in Maynooth College, can Eamonn Gaines seriously suggest that anyone in the slightest interested in the Roman Rite would actually want to say a Mass in ST. Mary’s Oratory, Maynooth after what has happened to it. See for youreslf:

  6. Mary says:

    I am so saddened by Eamonn Gaines promotion of St. Mary’s chapel in St. Patrick’s College, Maynooth. I remember the chapel when my uncle was ordained in Maynooth in 1957. It was so beautiful and so prayerful. I was privileged to visit the chapel after the ordination ceremony. The afternoon light streamed through the beautiful stained glass windows. I would hardly recognise the chapel in the photograph in the posting put up by Alex. Surely, the Latin Mass Society does not use a place like that to say mass. Some of the furniture has a definite pagan feel to it. I will pray for Eamonn.

  7. Ronan says:

    Are you daft? You’d never get an orthodox Catholic liturgy conference into Maynooth while Paddy Jones is the director of the National Liturgical Centre.

  8. I would hardly recognise the chapel in the photograph in the posting put up by Alex.

    Don’t worry… It’s not the same chapel. The Main College Chapel in Maynooth where your uncle was ordained is still gorgeously intact, I understand. However, some of the smaller chapels are regrettable.

  9. Alex says:

    Something interesting here from Card. Castrillion Hoyos to ponder:

    The cardinal also emphasized that this Mass was a universal gift.

    “All this liturgical richness, all this spiritual richness, and all the prayers so well-preserved during the centuries, all of this is offered by the Rome of today for all. As a gift for all, it is not a gift merely for the so-called traditionalists. No, it is a gift for the whole Catholic Church,” Cardinal Castrillon Hoyos said.

    The “sacred silence” and contemplation of the ancient rite, the cardinal said, “makes present the Lord Jesus in an expression of rich liturgical beauty, as the conqueror of death and sin… this rite brought unity to the faith and became the single expression through which the Church adores God.”

    The cardinal said that parishes and priests should make available the Extraordinary Form so that “everyone may have access to this treasure of the ancient liturgy of the Church.” He also stressed that, “even if it is not specifically asked for, or requested” it should be provided. Interestingly, he added that the Pope wants this Mass to become normal in parishes, so that “young communities can also become familiar with this rite.”

  10. Michael says:

    “Don’t worry… It’s not the same chapel. The Main College Chapel in Maynooth where your uncle was ordained is still gorgeously intact, I understand. However, some of the smaller chapels are regrettable”.

    Not entirely true. The lady chapel was wrecked by the infamous Mons. Ledwith. For no reason at all he pulled the beautiful altar of the purest carrara marble to bits. The College Chapel is no longer used for the Sunday liturgy. Instead, it is abased by concerts and academic conferrings.

  11. TNCath says:

    Does anyone have a recommendation as to where I might be able to attend a well-celebrated Extraordinary or Ordinary Form (Latin Novus Ordo) in Ireland this summer?

  12. Alex says:

    S. Kevin’s, Harrinton Street, Dublin. They have a web page.

  13. Alex says:

    St. Kevin’s, Harrington Street, Dublin. TLM with excellent musical accompanyment. See their web page for details per google.

  14. Hermione says:

    My heart weeps for Ireland …

  15. Patrick says:

    The Dublin Latin Mass Chaplaincy website is:

  16. M. says:

    Though I am from Ireland I have not lived there for several years but I hear some mutterings about the Latin Mass Society of Ireland, particularly, that they wish to seperate themselves from Una Voce International. I have no clear information, just vague mutterings from a few friends who attend their Masses and feel that , perhaps, all is not well. I hope I’m mistaken but does anyone have clear info?

  17. The LMSI hasn’t organised a conference of this kind because it’s been too busy organising Masses in the EF. Conferences are not what the LMSI does. Fota is of course a wonderful facility, with NO CHAPEL and at least a 1.5 mile walk from the nearest public transport – that’s what the “middle of nowhere” means. As for a “Pale” mentality – please note I also suggested UCC with its facilities and the magnificent Honan Chapel to boot.

    As for Fr Paddy Jones in Maynooth, he has no input into how a visiting conference group uses the facilities. The Gun Chapel (as the main College Chapel is known) is perfectly suitable for the TLM and I have served a TLM there at the High Altar. Likewise St Joseph’s Oratory can easily accommodate a TLM.

    Finally please note that these are my personal views NOT those of the LMSI (nor of the IPS nor of the SJABI which I am also a member of!)

  18. Alex says:

    Well, it seems to me that the Latin Mass Society of Ireland is so busy organising the Fota Conference that it has not time to organise one of its own in Maynooth with the TLM celebrated in St. Mary’s Oratory.

    As for the LMSI’s organising abilities, well they sometimes leave the impression of not extending too far beyond that of bus-tour operators!

  19. M. says:

    I have to say, dispite appearing to criticise the LMSI in my last comment, Alex is very far off the mark and very unfair. The LMSI are not the organisers of the Fota Conference and the tour bus comment is nonsense. I know that the LMSI has organised Masses is some very out of the way places. The problem would seem to be that the LMSI does little self promotion, esp. on a national scale, and esp. in the aftermath of the MP. Contrast the situation in the UK, which we constantly hear is a country without religion and anti-catholic: residential training courses for priests attended by 40/50, Solemn Pontifical High Mass celebrated by Cardinal Castrillon de Hoyos in Westminster Cathedral, and this against the wishes of many. I know that the situation with the general faithful in Ireland is different, eg extreme deference to the bishops for instance, but the results are disappointing. I lived in Dublin for 10 years. The main national newspaper with a very high readership in the city has in its Saturday edition a half page listing all the main religious services over the weekend . About ten years ago the LMS Mass in St Audoen’s was listed and indeed this was the first TLM I ever attended and found it through the newspaper. They stopped listing the Mass there about eight years ago and the times of the Mass were changed several times. The only way to keep track was to attend every week, ( not practical for me) or to be a member of the society. Why not use the newspaper listing?

  20. M – I fear you’ve misunderstood slightly. The Mass in St Audoen’s which has now moved to St Kevin’s isn’t an LMSI Mass and never was. It was and is part of the pastoral ministry of the Dublin Diocese.

    For EF Mass locations and times – anywhere in Ireland – try

  21. M. says:

    In that case, please accept my apologies, Mr. Gaines. When I lived in Dublin I came across quite a number of people who longed for the TLM, but who knew nothing about the Mass in St. Audeon’s.

    When I go back to Ireland now I am shocked by the state of the church: the wanton destruction of so many church interiors, far worse than anything I’ve seen in the UK, ( where I live), the really appalling slip shod liturgies. It is very sad but it strikes me that the standard of the ordinary diocesan priests has slipped very low and there is a horrible smugness and parocialism.

  22. Alex says:


    My words about the LMSI being a group of bus tour operators are well chosen. Take the Cork area where I live. The only regular TLM available is once a month in St. Peter and Paul’s – and this the second largest city in the country. As afr as we can see, no effort at all was made to provide a TLM in the diocese of Cloyne which covers practically all of the main towns in the largest county in the country – and bishop Magee is on record as saying that he never received requests for the TLM. At present, a private Mass is advertised by the LMAI in Macroom on Monday evenings. HOwever, it is impossible to get anyone to answer the telephone and say whether the Mass is on or not on any given Monday.

  23. Alex says:

    In fairness, I should that the LMSI’s Limerick branch is a good deal more active and has arranged regular TLMs on Sunday. They also had Mass on Christmas day with good music. Nothing like that in Cork where the monthly Mass is on Saturday.

  24. M. says:

    Alex, I may be a bit out of touch as I don’t make it back as often as I used to these days but I still find it very strange that in a country which had such an unshakable faith so little progress has been made. I grew up just after the changes and there was still a very strong general reverence towards the Blessed Sacrament and the Mass but things seem to have really disintergrated.

    Again I am genuinely shocked by the quality of some younger priests in Ireland. I’ve met some real boors; rough country lads, deeply anti intellectual, and smug in their mediocrity.

    By contrast many of the younger priests in the UK are excellent: sharp, smart, devout, and interested in tradition. ( of course things are not as simple as that but it does seem to be the trend).

  25. M. says:

    Alex, for instance I live in a Diocese with a Catholic population of approx. 135,000, (about the same as Cork City I think). We have one of the most liberal and ineffectual bishops in England, but the TLM is offered in 8 churches. In the next diocese I know of at least 6 or 7 churches offering the TLM. Most are low Masses with an occasional Sung Mass, but there are some regular sung Masses as well. A number of the Masses are offered at the ” instigation” of the parish priest to help familiarise people with the older form.

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