An oldie but a foodie… er um… goodie, from our Vincenzo:
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“This blog is like a fusion of the Baroque ‘salon’ with its well-tuned harpsichord around which polite society gathered for entertainment and edification and, on the other hand, a Wild West “saloon” with its out-of-tune piano and swinging doors, where everyone has a gun and something to say. Nevertheless, we try to point our discussions back to what it is to be Catholic in this increasingly difficult age, to love God, and how to get to heaven.” – Fr. Z
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You forgot the cigar! ;)
You’ll have to take that up with the official photoshoper, Vincenzo!
Game over! lol
“Oh waiter! Oh, waiter!” I said I wanted to see the COOK not the BOOK!
Oops, I forgot to congratulate you Father. Well done.
I hope you had a gremial – it would be a shame to drip Bernaise on that nice mozetta!
“You’ll have to take that up with the official photoshoper, Vincenzo!”
Photoshopper??? You mean that’s not a real photo?
I guess you’re not the Rome Insider I thought you were, Father.
To Jonathan for my friend Serafino…..
Jonathan,
First of all, there is no need to clarify my remarks, you understood them correctly, and I stand by them one hundred percent. They were offered in the spirit fraternal correction, and were applied both in a general sense, and in a particular sense according to the circumstances. [You don’t get this at all, apparently.]
Priests are not perfect, and when the laity elevates us to the status of beyond reproach and just criticism, it is dangerous and spiritually harmful for both priests and laity. No priest, no matter how well intentioned or gifted ,should be elevated to a god like status.
To publicly “glory” in food, drink and cigars, in my opinion, is not very priestly. Once again I ask, would the saintly Cure of Ars have eaten and boasted of such meals? If he is the model of diocesan priests, should we not follow his example.
Or do we follow the lives of the saints only when it pleases us and does not conflict with our personal lifestyle? And by the way, Jonathan, I am a citizen of Italy, and I can assure you, the majority of meals showcased on this blog are far from “peasant’ meals of my native country. [Enjoy your life… you won’t be here anymore.]
Once I again, Jonathan, I stand by what I said with no regrets or retractions. [Ciao.] In the words found in the Holy Gospel, “What I have written, I have written.” For me, the matter ends here.
“from our Vincenzo”
Lol I like how you have claimed Vincenzo as your own, Father!
To publicly “glory” in food, drink and cigars, in my opinion, is not very priestly. Once again I ask, would the saintly Cure of Ars have eaten and boasted of such meals? If he is the model of diocesan priests, should we not follow his example.
I have read that St John Vianney ate nothing but boiled potatoes. I suppose you follow the Saint also in this example?
You don’t get the point wsxyz. Even if Fr. Serafino did only eat potatoes, he wouldn’t “glory” in it for all the public to see. In fact, there are probably people who can’t even afford to buy potatoes to eat. The fact that Fr. Z glories in these extravagant displays of food and drink is scandalous. If you want to go ahead and glorify Fr. Z that’s your decision. I’ll stick by the real priests who do the work they are supposed to do and don’t get the kudos for adoring fans. Remember that what the Father sees in secret will be rewarded.
TJB:
:) It’s an honor! WDTPRS is the best blog on the net.
“WDTPRS is the best blog on the net.”
I second that nomination. All those in favour?
Picture of the Big Boss enjoying a beer. God bless him:
http://images-partners-tbn.google.com/images?q=tbn:3s3V_AjbhgOE6M:bp3.blogger.com/_gNgHOYb9WV8/SAgqf0BOmEI/AAAAAAAABEc/7lphnkNa3fM/s400/Pope%2B3.JPG
Serafino – you wrote:
Vatican documents on priestly life seem to indicate that priests,
even if not bound by a vow of poverty as in the case of diocesan clergy, are called to live in the spirit of evangelical poverty in imitation of Christ.
While this does not preclude a decent meal, the laborer, after all, is worth his pay, to inordinately glory in such things seems to be out of place. Would the saintly patron of diocesan priests ,John Marie Vianney, have such a meal and then boast about it?
Since these displays of “culinary delights” have caused controversy in the past, perhaps it would be best not to go there. As a priest who works among the poor in the Hispanic community, I know they would be scandalized by such displays of opulent culinary delights for priests. Their own diet consisting, even here in the United States, of simply foods such as rice, beans, and tortillas. They can’t afford much more than that.
Since many young men considering a vocation to the Holy Priesthood ,as well as those already in the seminary, view this blog, the last thing anyone would want these days is to present the priesthood as some sort of upper class, spoiled, effeminate “ol’ boys club” where the members are pampered by rich foods and wines. [Wow… are you out of line. And you are out of here, too. – Fr. Z]
Those of us who actually work in the vineyard of the Lord are well aware that we are called to work hard for the salvation of souls, and give witness to the evangelical poverty of Christ not by words, but by our example. [Sanctimonious piffle.]
I have met too many spoiled priests in “special ministry,” who if they had to work in the “real world” of an active parish for a week, would not know what do do, and would soon return to the comfortable world of “special ministry.” Priesthood is suffering service to God’s Holy people, and, in my opinion, has nothing to do with living a pampered life style.
Comment by Serafino — 1 September 2008 @ 10:02 am
Here’s what I was taught by the Loreto’s and my parents:
1 TAKE heed that you do not your justice before men, to be seen by them: otherwise you shall not have a reward of your Father who is in heaven.
2 Therefore when thou dost an alms deed, sound not a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be honoured by men. Amen I say to you, they have received their reward. 3 But when thou dost alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doth. 4 That thy alms may be in secret, and thy Father who seeth in secret will repay thee.
Serafino, You’ve put us in an impossible position. We can’t tell you what we’ve done and continue to do for those in need.
Mat: 25-34 – I get great solace from these passages.
I’ll remember you in my prayers.
Anne,
You quoted:
1 TAKE heed that you do not your justice before men, to be seen by them: otherwise you shall not have a reward of your Father who is in heaven.
2 Therefore when thou dost an alms deed, sound not a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be honoured by men. Amen I say to you, they have received their reward. 3 But when thou dost alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doth. 4 That thy alms may be in secret, and thy Father who seeth in secret will repay thee.
Please! If a priest is not able to take fraternal correction from a brother priest then that shows you his arrogance. Again you are one example of deifying the clergy. Clericalism. Get a life. [I don’t like how you talk to my other guests. And fraternal correction is not generally a public matter. So… bye!]
I guess I am failing to see a need for Fr. Z to be “fraternally corrected” for having friends over and sharing a meal with them. Where is the scandal? Some people just seem to go out looking for scandal. Relax folks! It’s just a simple meal shared between friends.
Dave
A Priest I know once said, “We do not imitate the Saints, we imitate Christ.”
St. Rose of Lima disfigured herself because many thought her to be beautiful.
St. Catherine of Siena often didn’t sleep for days as she tended to the sick.
Some Saints have even lived with the Eucharist as their only sustenance.
For St. John Vianney, he consumed the Eucharist and (supposedly rotten) potatoes while spending most of his life in the Confessional.
All of that is amazing.
However, for me to attempt to imitate such supernatural feats would be ridiculous. They are a gift.
I need 6 or 7 hours sleep or I can be uncharitable. I really enjoy Starbucks coffee as a treat. And when I don’t eat enough iron rich foods, I become anemic. I also love to make nice meals for guests – usually spending two or three times what I would if not celebrating with them.
Mortification is important but I have learned the hard way that it can also be dangerous because it can make us proud if it is from our own will and not God’s.
Dan: Again you are one example of deifying the clergy. Clericalism. Get a life.
Please clarify. I’m interested in your point of view.
BTW, I respect our Priests.
Serafino said– “In the words found in the Holy Gospel, “What I have written, I have written.”
People have now taken the positions of Judas and Pilate as support for their sniping. Amazing.
Well, I enjoy Father’s food posts very much, and I want that cookbook! :D Please keep sharing your wonderful meals with us, Father–and remember us when you partake of them!
I think it’s nice to be allowed some glimpses into a priest’s domestic life and “normal” interests, like cooking!
Father Z:
I think someone here deserves a “Sour Grapes Award.”
Serafino said: “No priest, no matter how well intentioned or gifted, should be elevated to a god like status.”
Dan said: “The fact that Fr. Z glories in these extravagant displays of food and drink is scandalous. If you want to go ahead and glorify Fr. Z that’s your decision. I’ll stick by the real priests who do the work they are supposed to do and don’t get the kudos for adoring fans.”
I can keep silence no longer. These are the most ridiculous comments I have ever seen on a blog. No one is elevating any priest to “god like status”. What an absolutely ludicrous statement! “Real priests”?! What a bunch of pompous, self-righteous nonsense!
Fr. Z has addressed these Lutheran misconceptions in the original post, and he rightly shut down the comments there.
I notice that these recent complaints make no mention of Fr. Z’s unnecessary explanation from the original post. Instead of combating his argument, they just complain in vague and outrageous ways. Very telling.
P.S. Fr. Z: I’ll have you know that because of that old post with the steak and asparagus, I have recently begun adding asparagus to my menus, especially on the grill (no Béarnaise sauce yet, though!). Thank you very much for the inspiration, both spiritual and culinary!
“If life doesn’t stink you aren’t holy enough” – ROFL!! I hope you haven’t copyrighted that phrase Father, because I intend to use it frequently in future. With due accreditation, of course.
I agree that WDTPRS is definitely the best blog on the web. Where else could I learn so much about the Dormition of our Blessed Mother, the best method for frying green tomatoes and the inside track on the Presidential election within the space of a few days?
I meant to post on this earlier, but was working, then stuck in the kitchen feeding my family – something I think it’s worth doing well, makin the best use of God’s bounty. (Remember that line from grace before meals, folks: “these Thy gifts, which of Thy bounty…” – not “of thy provision for sustaining our bodies at a minimal calorific level”)
The critique of the protestant/jansenist line is obvious. (“Some people can’t afford potatoes” reminded me of Moty Python’s 4 Yorkshiremen competing for claims of childhood poverty: “CARDBOARD box? LOOXURY!”
A couple of less-obvious points:
– cooking is a gift from God, as anyone who’s eaten burnt bounty knows;
– re seminarians and would-be priests – some of them might find comfort in the thought they can be whole men, and need not be called to sackcloth & ashes (though some are);
– the blog is in part a work of (excellent) evangelism, and broadening its appeal on a human level increases its effectiveness;
– how about the line about using the things of the world to do good?
– I’m always sceptical of “Fraternal correction” adminstered publicly;
– That wine at Cana – what’d the steward say again? And did Our Lord, or His Blessed Mother, say “OK you’ve satisfied your bodily needs, there are lepers out there on the streets of Jerusalem who never even DREAM about eating Fatted Calf, you call yourselves Apostles, just THINK of the example you’re setting…”
“Bitter Fruit” is even better than “Sour Grapes.” ROFL! You made my day, Father!
Some posters here have not seen, or do not remember, Fr Z’s Lenten recipes, the memory of which still haunt me…
Fr Z’s cooking seems to me to be simple and imaginative. I doubt he eats ‘well’ every day, only when he has company, and if he enjoys his food, what of it? The good Lord gave us the earth and its bounty to enjoy. With respect to the ascesis of the desert fathers onwards, I think sometimes we forget we are Catholics and not Puritans; a healthy balance is needed.
“Wherever the Catholic sun doth shine, there’s always laughter and good red wine… Benedicamus Domino!” (Belloc) Laughter and good red wine: a remedy for sour fruit.
St. Blath the Cook, pray for us!
What an un-Christian, un-Catholic attitude! To assume that fasting and mortification is being like Christ but hospitality and drinking (or making!) wine is not like Him or like His mother!
Hospitality is one of the great Christian virtues, commended and demonstrated by Our Lord. It is proper to observe days of feasting as well as fasting, “when the Bridegroom is with you”. Jesus Himself grilled fish, and would you dare say that He did it less than well? Would you dare say that the wine He made from water was not the best and strongest vintage?
Generosity and multiplication of food are classic indications of saintliness, as well as loving care of animals and plants and many other domestic virtues. We see in many works of the early Christians — works by great teachers who became martyrs, like St. Cyprian and St. Methodius — that they loved to get together with friends, enjoy nice weather, eat good food and drink good wine, and generally be hospitable hosts and appreciative guests.
When we fast, let us fast; and if God calls us to fast more, then let us do so. But when we feast, let us feast and thank God for His bounty of joys.
Maureen – you are very correct. Hospitality was a HUGE virtue in the ancient world, especially up preceding and into the time of Our Lord. This was especially poignant during that time as there was no infrastructure or support network to aid travelers, other than common charity. And the common “do unto others” theme applied throughout, since you either came in peace, or in a horde willing to take what you needed/wanted when traveling.
Incidentally, this part of the story of Soddom and Gammorah has been lost to most Western Christians. When we hear of it, we automatically think it was because of the wicked practices (i.e. soddomy) of the cities which is why God destroyed them. But the story had a deeper meaning which was readily understood by anyone in the middle-east; that being inhospitable to travelers and not showing charity/hospitality to them was a grave sin which God needed to punish.
God gives us creation for our use. And right, we’re not to “glory in it”. But that meal just looks like good stewardship to me!
On pampered priests: Whether personally holy or unholy or somewhere in between, he stands in the Person of Christ in the confection of the Sacraments. That’s his purpose and I cannot be more grateful. All else is gravy (sorry – punny). While it feels good to be inspired by a particular personality, and Fr. Z is one of those that does inspire, the meat of it (sorry) is in the Truth being taught and brought to us in Holy Communion.
I don’t care what he eats. I do care Who he brings me to eat.
Is anyone else impressed at the Holy Father’s ability to read upside down? :)
Dan – anyone who can’t make his/her point without calling someone a “complete ignoramus” shouldn’t be posting on the internet, or more specifically, on this site. If you have issues with Father Z, why bother coming here at all? [He won’t be joining us anymore.] Do you feel good now that you can vent your pent up hostility by using the internet?
Incidentally, this IS the internet…and Serafino can say he is the Bonny Prince Charlie. To that end, you seem to be taking everything he says as complete fact. I haven’t seen him post his personal/parish info for us to confirm what he says. From his assertions (i.e. that Italian peasants don’t eat pasta with fresh vegetables or rabit) I personally have as much a problem with his credibility as I do with your overall tone and lack of charity.
Didn’t Therese of Avila once say something along the lines of “penance is penance and this is a partridge”?
Fr. Z, even Christ found that when it comes to the discussion of what food is appropriate, you can\’t win.
Both Matthew and Luke recount this occasion on which Our Lord said the following:
For John the Baptist comes, not eating bread, not drinking wine, and they say, \”He is possessed\”. The Son of Man comes, eating and drinking, and you say \”Look, a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners\”.
Incidentally, this part of the story of Soddom and Gammorah has been lost to most Western Christians. When we hear of it, we automatically think it was because of the wicked practices (i.e. soddomy) of the cities which is why God destroyed them. But the story had a deeper meaning which was readily understood by anyone in the middle-east; that being inhospitable to travelers and not showing charity/hospitality to them was a grave sin which God needed to punish.
Comment by Deusdonat
What is less hospitable than trying to sodomize guests?
Only Lady MacBeth was able to top that one.
Dan, why do you read this blog?
Dan, whose blog is this anyhow? Father Z shares his thoughts and opinions on many subjects, and most of us enjoy his posts in which he shares the Sabine Farm with us, including the birds, plants, sunrises, and the food, much of which he grows himself in his garden. These are the little extras that we enjoy as much as his news posts,translations, readings of Don Camillo, podcasts,etc. So is Fr Z supposed to stop sharing these things with us because people like you don’t like it? [A much better solution is simply to give those people the heave-ho and block their access to the blog. They just drag our spirits down. If this blog isn’t a pleasure for me to work on, and the solution is to get rid of the bitter fruit… the choice is easy.] God gave us these good things. Only a small number of people have the vocation to live a life of extreme self-denial and sacrifice. Most of us thank God for the blessings that we have received, and this includes being able to enjoy food and wine, and even the occasional cigar. No wonder Fr Z talked a few weeks ago about discontinuing this blog.
Dan said– “What???? That is so liberal protestant that I can’t believe you posted that to justify defending Fr. Z”
There was a context to the statement that seems to have eluded you. As for “protestant” justifications, as has been pointed out, it is you and Serafino whose puritanism on this topic has very little to do with any Catholic thinking.
So Dan– you seem to think that Fr Z has some responsibility to post only that which you want to read, and that if he varies, it is scandalous. You might consider that you are in the position of the ugly American tourist, one who has come to a place he doesn’t like and insists it change to suit him.
Antiquarian said about Dan “You might consider that you are in the position of the ugly American tourist . . .” As a certified ugly American, I have to object! I like Father Z’s food posts. I have to admit, though, that Dan’s comments are a little hard to – ahem – digest.
I really appreciate this blog and all the great efforts of fr. Z defending orthodox Catholic faith.
However, I wonder whether there could also be room for differing opinions? As far as I see, fr. Serafino’s comments were not anyway insulting, and therefore banning him seems a little bit strange for me. [No. It was highly insulting. Also, this is not a media outlet… it is my blog. I am happy to have differing opinions. But on my blog, in my living room, as it were, I don’t need either to be insulted or watch people insult each other. Annoy me and you’re gone. – Fr. Z]
Dove,
I hope Fr. Z is a friend of tax collectors and sinners as I am at least one of those!
I like hearing about a priest enjoying life for a change.
Life is a chore for most of us. There is very little pleasure in large things or small these
days. We have to make our fun where we can.