Cri de Coeur

I have been exchanging email with a friend about the horrific circus-like spectacle of the baptism of a baby in the custody of two lesbians in Argentina.

After some digressions, which happen, I received this (edited):


But Fr. Manelli and his Franciscans of the Immaculate, they REALLY needed to be descended upon, their seminary shut down and everybody not in tune with the Kommissar exiled to missions or monasteries and forbidden to celebrate the Mass according to Summorum Pontificum. All for the unspeakable crime of using the old Missal and Breviary. They were the top clear and present danger for the universal Church that needed to be dealt with muy rapido and mercilessly. For them, the discipline enforcement of old came back alive.

Here, on the contrary, they will find excuses to justify the lack of action, while we need to tread carefully to even breathe in the churches and at the altars the faith which our fathers built for the ages, and to do what they handed down to us with the same exact faith of the Apostles and the same exact understanding of the Precious Wounds that gave us the Sacraments.

I am beside myself (in case it wasn’t obvious). Not for myself, I am not going anywhere. But it kills me to see so many good people around me throwing up their hands and losing hope in the Church. And since we mustn’t be judgmental, who am I to judge those who will be pushed over the rad-trad edge because of this spectacle of a clergy, this daily assault on common sense, basic doctrine and identity from the the very top of hierarchy on down?

This is NOT just a case of nuttiness in some far flung diocese somewhere in the south of the world. Not in the age of the social media. This is a test.

In a far-from-casually-chosen area of the world.

If there will be no consequence, more of this will happen. Qui tacet consentire videtur.

I can only pray harder, fast more, and give more to the poor.

Nada te turbe, nada the espante, todo se pasa, Dios no se muda. La paciencia todo lo alcanza, quien a Dios tiene nada le falta. Solo Dios basta (Teresa de Jesus)

About Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Fr. Z is the guy who runs this blog. o{]:¬)
This entry was posted in Cri de Coeur, HONORED GUESTS, Liberals, Liturgy Science Theatre 3000, One Man & One Woman, Our Catholic Identity, Sin That Cries To Heaven, The Coming Storm, The future and our choices. Bookmark the permalink.


  1. norancor says:


    Let us perhaps come to an understanding on the common problem here by making a short list:

    – Sister Dominic in Charlotte
    – Lesbians’ child baptism in Argentina
    – Papal baptism of an unmarried couple’s child
    – The proposal to allow adulters to receive Communion while in unrepentant mortal sin
    – “Who am I to judge?”
    – Riccagate
    – Vatileaks
    – Rome having to take over defrocking to speed the process
    – Pederasty scandals and massive payouts
    – The annulment machine
    – The “pink” subculture in dioceses and seminaries
    – Cohabitation and the absence of safeguarding the sacrament of Matrimony
    – Defiance of Humanae Vitae

    There are a legion of doctrinal and liturgical and devotional problems in the Church, but where the rubber meets the road is the bedroom, and the Church is being wrecked by it.

  2. Netmilsmom says:

    I’m not jumping to any kind of “RadTrad” community but I might just simply move to Wisconsin, where good, holy, traditional Priests hang out. I hear Pine Bluff is lovely in the summer.
    There is a thread running through The Church which smells of a lack of Catholicity. I was born Catholic, through most of my life I remained Catholic. I’ll die Catholic, but I fear for my kids.

  3. The Catholic Church goes through bad eras and better eras. Perfection is never found in the earthly element of the Body of Christ; our duty is to perceive her heavenly element amidst her oft-wounded exterior, just as we perceive God as – wonder of wonders! – a mangled corpse laid in the ground. This is an especially awful era for many reasons. The best any of us can do is live in the Sacraments, go about the corporal and spiritual works of mercy, and have pride in our traditions and our identity, passing it on to our children. Remember, it’s of your children that future bishops will come.

  4. Dundonianski says:

    Norancor’s list is depressing-more depressing is the myriad of offences against truth that can be added to that sad litany in abundance. As for the Franciscans of Immaculate, well, Volpi was well chosen for the task and implementation of its destruction. It would be naive to follow the proposition that the bishop of Rome was and is in blissful ignorance of their plight-he has hinted recently that their removal from the sepulchr will be over “soon, soon” I am well aware that my personal opinion is of no value, and will cause offence to some, but I am now convinced that the bishop of Rome has a different world view of Catholicism than do I. Perhaps of course he is right and Muslims for example, holding to their faith, will attain that which I fear will be exceeding difficult for me in my dotage!

  5. Sonshine135 says:

    In all that has happened recently, we have to remember we are an Easter People. Especially after the past couple of weeks I’ve had in the Charlotte Diocese, I keep reminding myself that the Lord said the gates of Hell would not prevail against the church, but he never said that the enemy wouldn’t be found within.

    If out of these tragedies (and they really are tragic), we find our voice and an ability to overcome this, we will be a better and stronger church for it. We need to make sure we are funding vocations; providing air cover for our Priests when they want to change things for the better; writing letters regularly to our Bishops to support them and inform them of what is happening in our Diocese; and teach others in our RE and RCIA programs. It is one thing to talk about something, and quite another to do something about it. We could take a page out of the liberals own playbook.

  6. Magpie says:

    In all the chaos, disorder, sin, double standards, injustice, and confusion, it’s a call to myself to look at my own life and see what is going on there, or not. If the Church is a mess, it’s only a reflection of my own self. There is lots to be done with regard to the self and I suppose I would encourage anyone who is scandalised/upset/angry to use these things as springboards towards personal holiness.

  7. benedetta says:

    I have great sympathy for those who feel so tested as to draw close to the rad trad edge, as I also have for those who have grown up having been fed pre-chewed notions cooked up in the cauldron of hatred against the Church who are agnostic or atheist as a result of never having had the opportunity to look into the faith at all, on any terms of basic inquiry. But, in these economic times such as they are, when medicare doctors are reaping tens of millions per year with at the same time a great percentage out of work, and as the cultural drumbeat keeps getting louder and louder drowning out reason and insisting that this or that politician holds all the answers for what troubles, inevitably people are going to, in greater numbers than in the past decades, consider God, often, frequently, for a huge number, for the very first time in adulthood, with all of the detritus and baggage and sin and despair that going it the secular way has brought about. It’s going to be messy. Some might instantly or quickly realize what their chosen lifestyle or sacred calves have wrought for the state of their souls and their relation to the God who created and loves them still, and hopes for their communion, but, as it is, in a time of so much noise and so few places of peace and rest, it’s unlikely. The Church needs to find a way to cope with catechumens or inquirers or testers who are far from holy yet while at the same time teaching tirelessly the enduring truths, the beliefs which Christians have believed in all times and places. A generation in this country has come into adulthood not having been baptised or raised in any faith whatsoever, and very few have the opportunity, time, prayers, support to read, be taught, understand the faith, which takes some doing apart from whatever one encounters at public school or media or university campus or social groups. Parishes that offer worthy music, solid preaching and catechesis, an appreciation of the truth that beauty offers, and a sense of community, will be well positioned to accept incoming for triage in the field hospital.

  8. Priam1184 says:

    What Magpie said.

  9. cajuncath says:

    I don’t think it’s quite so easy here. Yes, we should always take strong stock of ourselves and reform and purge sin.

    But no matter how much I or anybody else does that, is it really going to put a stop to the scheduled joint commemoration of the Reformation and Martin Luther in 2017? Now the Vatican is telling us that he was misunderstood and our classical condemnations were based upon reading him out of context.

  10. Michael says:

    I honestly just don’t understand why they want to be a part of an organization that states that they deserve to be punished for all eternity in a lake of fire and brimstone for having sex with someone of the same gender. Just think about it for a second. Look at it from the outside in. If you have children, is there anything that your child could do that would drive you to lock them in your basement for eternity and torture them?

  11. tskrobola says:

    Michael: a serious question such as yours deserves a serious answer.

    First of all for a sin to cause damnation (ie, mortal sin) it must be a “grave” sin (against the 10 commandments, for instance) AND it must be intentionally committed (so accidentally killing someone with your car for instance is not a mortal sin).

    So in short damnation is caused by mortal sin which is a knowing choice to commit a serious sin.

    But here’s the thing: if that person, having committed a mortal sin, is then sorry/repentant for their sins (i.e., sincere/honest confession and penance) then they don’t have to worry about damnation.

    It’s not just about sin, it’s about mercy. And avoiding sin and seeking mercy is about wanting to love God. It’s just that simple.

  12. Bea says:

    Right, tskrobola, and other points, too.

    Michael’s statements
    “I don’t understand why “they” want to be part of an “organization” (I guess he means The Church established by Christ, Our Lord)
    “having sex with someone of the same gender” That is called Mortal Sin and is one of the abominations that cries out to heaven.
    “drive you to lock them (your children) in your basement for eternity and torture them?” It is not “the parent” (God) who “locks them up”. This place (hell) already exists and it is the “children” that choose to go there because (or if) they die unrepentant.

  13. Bea says:

    Ahh Father Z.

    “Nada te turbe, nada the espante, todo se pasa, Dios no se muda. La paciencia todo lo alcanza, quien a Dios tiene nada le falta. Solo Dios basta (Teresa de Jesus)”

    my favorite prayer, from my favorite saint.

    It’s only satan up to his old tricks, trying to make us concentrate, during this Holy Season of Lent, on things that perturb us instead of things that will draw us closer to Christ. He’s been trying this trick for the last few years. Every start of Lent he’s been throwing something at us.
    Fr. Corapi
    Fr. Cutie (sp?)
    Pope Benedicts’s abdication
    Now this

    My prayer for you all that nothing perturb you, for Our Good God alone suffices.

  14. Michael says:


    You forgot “full knowledge” in your list of what constitutes a mortal sin. FYI. I used to believe so I understand what you are saying. The best way that I can describe via analogy what it is like having someone who is religious explain why I should believe what their specific god says (and I don’t mean this to be mean, it is just the best analolgy that I can think of at the moment) is it is like a drunk person trying to explain what it is like to be drunk to a former alcoholic.


    Ask anyone who is living in “grave sin” if they want to go to a place where they are tormented for all eternity. I am guessing they will tell you no. There is no way to get around the fact that it is ultimately your god that condemns people to hell in your scenario, as it is god who makes the rules. I do not believe anyone deserves eternal punishment, not even Hitler. I think that it is an evil concept. Your god in your scenario could have easily made it so that people who don’t follow his rules are just annihilated. FYI. I find Aquinas’ argument against the concept of annihilation, i.e. that people who die in mortal sin are so selfish they would prefer to exist for all eternity even if it meant to burn, to be completely illogical. Ask anyone right now if they would prefer to be tormented for eternity or just annihilated and I think you would find your answer.

  15. tioedong says:

    This is about the child, and the pastoral approach to baptism.
    In America, should the priest have baptized my son’s daughter, since he was not married to her mother (who had separated but not divorced)? Her Philippine mother will make sure she is raised Catholic, so the priest agreed. Ditto for divorced parents in many cases.
    But the church isn’t limited to the first world.
    In Africa, the problem is if you should baptize the children if the parents are not Catholic. If the father is not, there is the possibility that he will forbid the child to be raised catholic, or even marry her to a pagan polygamist. So they won’t baptize in tribal areas until the child is a teenager.
    Ah, but would you baptize the children of a polygamous couple? Two of our local nuns were raised catholic by such a family, their father married to two sisters. They could not be baptized, but attended church and even allowed the girls to become nuns (losing a lot of money because they had to pay a dowry and not get the bride price for their daughters).
    On the other hand, our priest in Africa was put on a month’s suspension for baptizing the child of a divorced businessman. That caused scandal. And I got into trouble for baptizing a dying premature baby (who then recovered, to my astonishment) because her father was a shamen…
    Pastorally, the bishops have to approach this case by case.

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