Card. Bertone in Avvenire about 1962 Missale (M.P.)

In Avvenire the official newspaper of the Italian Bishops Conference, today, H.E. Tarcisio Card. Bertone has an interview.  He spoke mainly about the Pope’s latest trip to Brasil and the flap about the "excommunication" regarding pro-abortion politicians in Mexico.  Biretta tip to SP: o{]:¬)

At the very end, the Cardinal Secretary of State said (my translation):

And the long-anticipated Motu Proprio which would derestrict the use of the so-called Missale of St. Pius V, at what point is it?

I believe we won’t have to wait much longer to see it published.  The Pope is personally interested that this happen.  He will explain it in his accompanying letter, hoping for a serene reception.  

Okay.

1) It is done.
2) It is going to happen.
3) The Pope is preparing, or has prepared a letter to come along with the Motu Proprio.
4) It is going to happen despite the knowledge that there will be resistence.

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45 Responses to Card. Bertone in Avvenire about 1962 Missale (M.P.)

  1. Andrew says:

    Well this is exciting. So the rumor about the accompanying letter is true. I wonder and hope that it is addressed to all Catholics so that the whole Church will know what his plans are for the future of the Latin Mass.

  2. Somerset '76 says:

    Also telling is the question just before that one [courtesy Rorate Caeli]:

    [Avvenire:] Your Eminence, please allow me two other questions. Is the announced letter of the Pope to the Chinese Catholics ready?

    The text of the letter has been definitively approved by the Holy Father and now the various translations and technical aspects of its publication are being prepared.

    As has been pointed out in this space before, there is a signficance to these two documents being issued simultaneously, as both of them touch on topics central to the issue of the SSPX. It looks like the letter to the Chinese will come out first so that it doesn’t get drowned in the attention the MP’s release will get … and it will establish a greater context in which SSPX supporters will need to read the MP.

  3. zathar says:

    I’m glad to see His Eminence acknowledge that it has been a long wait for many of us.

  4. Radical Traditionalist says:

    Fr Zuhlsdorf,

    How would the Motu Proprio personally affect you?

  5. Richard Catti says:

    A commentary on the expected Motu Proprio……

    It is a fact that a certain number of Catholics, although admittedly subject to the teaching authority of Ecclesia Dei, find it either extremely difficult or even impossible to make their own their participation in the Novus Ordo Mass. In particular, the argumentation and foundation implied in the document that it is an act of disobedience to participate in the Tridentine Liturgy as celebrated by the Bishops and priests of the SSPX, has failed in many cases to win the assent of men of good Catholic faith who share in the love and devotion to that venerable rite and the rites of the Sacraments of the Roman Catholic church according to the norms established by the Church before the Second Vatican council. We must appreciate the difficulty experienced by those in accepting some aspects of Ecclesia Dei. And we must make every effort to learn from the insights of those Catholics, who are of undoubted loyalty to Catholic truth, to the Church and the authority of the Holy See. Since they are not denying any point of divine and Catholic faith nor rejecting the teaching authority of the Church, these Catholics should not be considered or consider themselves, shut off from the body of the faithful. But they should remember that their good faith will be dependent on a sincere self examination to determine the true motives and grounds for such participation and on a continued effort to understand and deepen their knowledge of all that the Church teaches and does.

  6. Cardinal Bertone in a previous interview said that there was going to be an accompanying letter to the bishops explaining why this was being done.The MP hsa been signed but perhaps he is working on the letter to the bishops.This letter would require translations –Oh for the day when the Pope would send a letter in Latin and then each diocese would have their own Latinist translate it. So we could have two MP translations ,the “official”one and the correct one.I hoped they learned from the last fiasco-the english translation of Sacramentum Caritatis.Dr.Robert Beckwith,the 44 year old leading evangelical Protestant theologian who was president of the Evangelical Theological Society and a theology prof at Baylor and in April converted to Catholicism blames the church for him leaving the church whenhe was 14 together with his family.They became born again christians.He chastizes the church for not knowing how to reach young people.He said he never knew the history of the church prior to VII and he was exposed to folk masses with cute nuns and hip priests playing guitars and harmomnicas.He said that when he was young all that he had was poor pop music and a “gutted Mass”.

  7. Radical Traditionalist: How would the Motu Proprio personally affect you?

    That is a very good question. It is so good, that I want to think about it and maybe post a separate entry on the matter, or maybe talk about it in a PODCAzT. Thanks for that suggestion. I will give you a short answer, however.

    Immediately, it won’t make too much difference for me since I already have faculties from the Holy See to use the older Missal. I often say Mass with the older Missale now, so I suppose that wouldn’t change much.

    However, there are already a number of priest who want me to teach them how to say the older Mass.

    Should I wind up in a parish, it might have more impact on me, depending on what it says.

    Otherwise, I will continue to strive to promote the right use the Church’s rites and try to restrain improper use – just as I always have.

    That was a good question.

  8. Cerimoniere says:

    Somehow, last night, I came to the conviction that the time had come to begin chilling the champagne myself. In solidarity with Fr Z and those other readers who may already have followed his good example, I selected a bottle of his favourite marque and set it to chill. How splendid today, then, to find such reassurance from such an elevated source…adveniat!

  9. Brian Day says:

    …hoping for a serene reception

    An interesting turn of phrase. In the language of the Vatican, what does it mean?
    Accept the MP or else?

    Oh, and Fr. Z,
    Safe travels tomorrow. And more prayers for your intentions.

  10. TonyM says:

    As a former skeptic, I must concede that the Motu Proprio is no longer just a rumour. If it was only a rumour, all these prelates would be perjuring themselves when making such comments to the press.

  11. We know our Lord will restore the ancient Roman Mass sooner or later. Sooner sounds better, and more and more likely!

    I think tomorrow I will, like Cerimoniere, buy a bottle of Champagne for when the MP is promulgated.

    Deo Gratias!

  12. schoolman says:

    I have just affixed a label to the bottle in the chiller: “Do not open until MP”

    Very encouraging news!

  13. Sean says:

    No champagne or anything like that for me, just quiet happiness that many more Catholics will get to experience the still depths of the old mass.

  14. Stu says:

    schoolman,

    Be prepared to grab that bottle and jump onboard the Motu Proprio Bandwagon. I just got her washed and waxed and the music is playing loud. Jump onboard everyone. It’s going to happen!

    Stu

  15. Bob K. says:

    Quote: “No champagne or anything like that for me, just quiet happiness that many more Catholics will get to experience the still depths of the old mass.”

    In a decade or two!. According to Bishop Fellay. Their is more than just the TLM that needs to be restored. It’s the mentality of modern day Roman Catholics!. And the defeat of secularism!. And the way the world looks now a visual sign from God!.

  16. Bob K. says:

    We need God to send St Michael and a army of angels to start taking out the demons of this world who are roaming around day and night. And believe me their are many!!. Just sit back and take a look at our world and watch how it is getting worse by the day. To the secular mind the demons and their actions are invisible.

  17. Beth v. says:

    Well, I would like to chill a Veuve but since I have to take medicine that does not allow alcohol consumption I think I’ll chill an Orangina, if you know what I mean.

  18. Gordo says:

    Bob,

    You wrote:

    “In a decade or two!. According to Bishop Fellay. Their is more than just the TLM that needs to be restored. It’s the mentality of modern day Roman Catholics!. And the defeat of secularism!. And the way the world looks now a visual sign from God!.”

    As a condition for reunion? I sure hope that is not what he meant. He might as well say “when Hell freezes over” or “at the Parousia”!

    I would hope that he sees the Society of St. Pius X as part of the solution to those issues, and the restoration of unity as the leaven of the Gospel of Charity in the world.

    Gordo

  19. Bernard of Arezzo says:

    Part of me suspects that nothing short of being elected Pope will get Fellay, or Williamson (even more so) back into happy relations with Rome. Right now, they get to call all their own shots, (checking only with ‘eternal Rome’ which, not surprisingly, never speaks in public but always gives the thumbs up in private), and that is something one gets used to and doesn’t like to give up. I don’t mean this as a swipe against them, it is human nature. Just ask people who get married later in life – it is hard to go from ‘what I think’ to ‘what We think’. At a memorial day party, an Anglican was describing to me the various off-shoots of the Anglican church in the US and the fact that they never can get together, not for doctrinal or liturgical issues: even when there is substantial agreement nobody wants to give up, as he put it, their purple shirts and miter. I suspect something similar is true of SSPX too and the other outsider traditionalist groups as well — it is nice to be always right and not have a boss(‘outsider traditionalists’ is perhaps an unhappy term, but I want to distinguish it from other traditional groups such as FSSP, without bringing up the vexed question of schism and could not think of a better term, and SSPX certainly operates outside of normal church rules) So, to wrap up, I’d be thrilled if there was a reconciliation, but I’m not holding my breath for the SSPX heirarchy, but I do hope some of the laity and priests come in from the cold in the post MP era.

  20. Jennifer says:

    I’M SO EXCITED! :D :D :D

  21. John says:

    I fail to see how Bishops Fellay or Williamson get to call their own shots any more than all the other bishops of the Latin rite, who go their own way regardless of papal admonitions and the content of the faith. The human nature you mention is real but alas is going to prove much more of a problem with the non-SSPX than the SSPX bishops.

  22. Fr. Macafee,

    Glory to Jesus Christ!

    Fascinating story about Dr. Robert Beckwith. The same could be said for (the now anti-Catholic) Frank Schaeffer (sone of the eminent Evangelical theologian, Francis Schaeffer) who entered Orthodoxy after being completely turned off by the “folk” Masses coordinated by Sister Wanda B. Priest at the local RC parishes he visited. He had rediscovered the apostolic faith for himself and was looking for its liturgical expression, but instead had to go to Orthodoxy to find it.

    Now he runs Regina Orthodox Press which is a purveyor of anti-Latin, anti-Catholic theology.

    God willing, this MP will prevent such things from happening again, especially for those converts who “read” themselves into the path of Catholicism.

    In ICXC,

    Gordo

    PS: Here is a link to the announcement from Robert Beckwith on a blog:

    http://rightreason.ektopos.com/archives/2007/05/my_return_to_th.html

    PPS: You may find this essay a useful resource. It is from Robert Koons, who decided to follow Robert Beckwith into Catholicism this Spring, changing his “Soli Deo Gloria” into “Gloria in Excelsis Deo!”

    http://www.utexas.edu/cola/depts/philosophy/faculty/koons/case_for_catholicism.pdf

  23. John,

    Good point. I think it is safe to assume that obedience – loving or otherwise – to authority in general is a problem on both sides of the Catholic continuum.

    In ICXC,

    Gordo

  24. RBrown says:

    Just sit back and take a look at our world and watch how it is getting worse by the day.

    I recommend the Carthusian motto: Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.

  25. Remembering something Father Z said some time ago about how Popes don’t suggest, even when it is worded as a suggestion, it’s really an order.

    Therefore I conclude that “hoping for a serene reception” = “Bishop, please don’t make me angry. You wouldn’t like me when I’m angry”

  26. Benard of Arezzo says:

    I just want to telegraph my agreement with Gordo and John regarding my other post: I mentioned SSPX specifically because of the direction of the thread, not because I think they are the only ones…

  27. Dan says:

    Personally I found the comment that we should not have “long” to wait a little dispiriting. In Vatican time “not long” can be quite a long time indeed.

  28. afanco says:

    No champagne for me, but perhaps champale… more likely I’ll just crack a Stroh for the Motu Proprio.

    Benedicamus Domino!

  29. Richard Catti says:

    It is a fact that a certain number of Catholics, although
    admittedly subject to the teaching authority of Ecclesia Dei, find it either extremely difficult or even impossible to make their own their participation in the Novus Ordo Mass. In particular, the argumentation and foundation implied in the document that it is an act of disobedience to participate in the Tridentine Liturgy as celebrated by the Bishops and priests of the SSPX, has failed in many cases to win the assent of men of good Catholic faith who share in the love and devotion to that venerable rite and the rites of the Sacraments of the Roman Catholic church according to the norms established by the Church before the Second Vatican council. We must appreciate the difficulty experienced by those in accepting some aspects of Ecclesia Dei. And we must make every effort to learn from the insights of those Catholics, who are of undoubted loyalty to Catholic truth, to the Church and the authority of the Holy See. Since they are not denying any point of divine and Catholic faith nor rejecting the teaching authority of the Church, these Catholics should not be considered or consider themselves, shut off from the body of the faithful. But they should remember that their good faith will be dependent on a sincere self examination to determine the true motives and grounds for such participation and on a continued effort to understand and deepen their knowledge of all that the Church teaches and does.
    May Almighty God richly bless His Holiness Benedict XVI

  30. Alex says:

    The difference is that at least the Society of St. Pius X Bishops, whatever you
    think of them, firmly adhere to the integrity of the Roman Catholic Faith as
    formulated in the dogmas up to 1950. I am so sure about the orthodoxy of other
    Latin Rite bishops on very diocesan sees, sadly enough. No Roman Catholic Bishop
    will oppose this Motu Proprio and even Mons. Williamson SSPX in Warsaw in 2006, during
    priestly ordinations for the Byzantine Rite Society of St. Josaphat,
    said he would be very happy with the Motu Proprio. And that is quite a concession
    from this very outspokenly Vatican II-critical bishop.

  31. Cerimoniere says:

    It’s a hardly concession for anyone to agree with himself, even Bishop Williamson.

    If the MP says what it is understood to say, namely that the traditional Roman Rite has never validly been suppressed, then it will adopt a viewpoint officially espoused by the SSPX. Obviously, they would agree with that. Indeed, given that it will meet one of the SSPX’s two express preconditions for formal reconciliation, then the SSPX would be expected to welcome it particularly.

  32. Cerimoniere,

    Indeed, given that it will meet one of the SSPX’s two express preconditions for formal reconciliation…

    What is the second? (I forgot!)

    Gordo

  33. FranzJosf says:

    Gordo: The second is the lifting of the decree of excommunication.

  34. milanta says:

    I’m absolutely sure the MP will be released the next Corpus Christi Sunday (or the upcoming saturday).

  35. zathar says:

    Someone over on Angelqueen said:

    “When asked about the letter to Chinese Catholics, Cardinal Bertone is quite specific:

    Cardinal Bertone wrote:
    The text of the letter has been definitively approved by the Holy Father and now the various translations and technical aspects of its publication are being prepared.

    But turning to the MP, it gets a bit fuzzier:

    Cardinal Bertone wrote:
    I believe one will not wait long to see it published. The Pope is personally interested that this should take place. He will explain it in his accompanying letter, expecting a serene reception.

    The difference in tone is striking.”

    For me too, the more I think about Carindal Bertone’s interview, the more I think that the MP will be released either at the same time as the letter to China or afterward. As Fr. Z has remarked, I think the two documents are somehow connected. That would explain the Cardinal’s statements.

  36. zathar says:

    Is it true that the Patriotic Church in China only says the TM?

  37. ThomasMore1535 says:

    Alex,

    You cannot claim adherance to Sacred Tradition when you publicly repudiate and refuse to obey the Vicar of Christ. Leave out liberal bishops for the moment–that’s a separate issue. I challenge you to read the FIRST Vatican Council and what it said about the disciplinary authority of the Vicar of Christ, compare what that council infallibly defined with the actions and statements of SSPX Bishops regarding the Holy Father. I dare you to say that they are “upholding Catholic tradition” through their actions and statements.

  38. Milanta,

    Boy wouldn’t that be fitting, especially from the perspective of a Eucharistic ecclesiology.

    When is Corpus Christi?

    (Sorry – not a Feast in our Calendars…)

    Gordo

  39. FranzJosf says:

    This year Corpus Christi for the universal Church is Thursday, June 7. In the US it is transferred to the following Sunday, but in Rome there will be Mass and Procession from St. John Lateran to St. Mary Major on the Thursday.

  40. Boko Fittleworth says:

    Didn’t our “guess the date” game start with last year’s Corpus Christi? The first round of expectation has been tragic. I hope the next round isn’t farcical.

  41. Prof. Basto says:

    How come you guys don´t have Corpus Christi together with the Universal Church?

  42. Prof. Basto,

    Which “you guys” are you referring to…the Latin “you guys” or us Byzantine “you guys”?

    There is a tradition of the Feast of the Divine Body of our Lord, God and Savior, Jesus Christ in the Melkite and Ukrainian traditions. But it is not universally observed by Byzantines. (It tends to be regarded as a Latinization…an encroachment upon our traditional liturgical practices.)

    http://www.mliles.com/melkite/divinebody.shtml

    Here is the Troparion for the Feast:

    Christ, having loved His own, loved them until the end and gave them His body and blood as food and drink. Wherefore let us offer them our veneration and say with fear: “O Christ, glory to your condescension: for You alone are the Lover of Mankind.”

    If the question is directed to the Latins in the US, you got me. Transfering Holy Days seems to be in vogue. It might encroach on shopping days!

    Gordo

  43. berenike says:

    Serene reception? I giggled on reading Fr Thing’s response to this, go read;

    the-hermeneutic-of-continuity.blogspot.com

  44. milanta says:

    Thursday, June 7 too! Great. Don’t forget the chinese document too…

  45. Gordo the Byzantine says:

    Mr. Nobody,

    First of all, whatever your insult to me, your sweeping judgement of my brothers and sisters in the Christian East – a martyr Church in this century in many areas of the world, I might add – is highly uncharitable and completly unfounded. Perhaps what you see as arrogance is only that which challenges your own small-mindedness regarding the Catholic nature of the Church and its authentic diversity of discipline and practice. (Something Pope John Paul II of blessed memory called on Latin Catholics to rectify. See Orientale Lumen.)

    Secondly, if you have an issue with something specific I have posted, have the good grace and personal fortitude to address it directly instead of smearing other good people of faith.

    Meanwhile, I think Corpus Christi sounds like a great date for the MP. I will keep it certainly in my prayers, as one who suffers for my Latin brothers and sisters in their desire for orthodox worship.

    In ICXC,

    Gordo