Another parish Te Deum: Mater Ecclesiae

News of planned celebrations marking the promulgation of the Motu Proprio, a document still under embargo at this time, are starting to roll in.

I received this from my good friend the excellent Fr. Robert Pasley, who with his happy community Mater Eccelsiae, a parish set up by the Diocese of Camden (NJ) exclusively for the older Use, knows perhaps better than anyone how to make the provisions of the Motu Proprio work in real life.

Here is what is going on at Mater Ecclesiae:

To celebrate the promulgation of the Motu Proprio “Summorum Pontificum,” Mater Ecclesiae Chapel in Berlin, NJ will host the following events this Sat. July 7 and Sun. July 8:

1. At the 5:00PM Sat. anticipated Mass and the 8:30AM Sun. Mass we will end the Masses with the ringing of the bells and all verses of Holy God we Praise Thy Name (The Te Deum lite).

2. After the 11:00AM High Mass and Benediction, we will sing the Oremus pro Pontifice and then, with bells ringing, we will joyously sing the Solemn Te Deum.

3. There will be a surprise. A priest who has longed to sing the High Mass will be our guest celebrant for the first time. (The Motu Proprio in action)

4. Finally, after the High Mass, we will have champagne, sparkling cider, and cheese in the Hall.

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66 Responses to Another parish Te Deum: Mater Ecclesiae

  1. Rorate Caeli reports that next week there’s coming:

    The Church of Christ is not distinct or distinguishable from the Catholic Church, which is the only one to possess “all elements of the Church instituted by Jesus”. The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith will confirm it next week,

  2. Sid Cundiff says:

    Father, we now need some counsel as to Where Do We Go From Here? As we celebrate, let’s also look forward.

  3. danphunter1 says:

    Thank you Father,
    This news of festivity in New Jersey is most welcome,indeed.
    Does anyone know where, in North Carolina, one can partake of a similar joyous thanksgiving?
    Thomas:”extra ecclesiam nulla salus”

  4. danphunter1: yes, of course. However, the upcoming document is, I think, needed as the article explains.

  5. Sid Cundiff says:

    Also in North Carolina, also eager to know.

  6. dcs says:

    Wow!

    As a member of Mater Ecclesiae, I have a hunch as to who the celebrant might be, but I won’t spoil the surprise for anyone else.

  7. invocante says:

    The MP does not come into force until 14 Sept so your young priest (and you) will have to wait a while yet, sadly, to say the old rite under this MP (of course you may be celebrating under the existing limited indult).

  8. chris says:

    Father, how does a full indult Parish celebrate a 1967 anticipated mass???

  9. Kathy says:

    Mmm,, sparkling cider! Wish I could be there…

  10. Mark says:

    Hrmmm… interesting. I had a look at that Parish website, and was most impressed. Kudos to the Bishop for setting up this Parish.

  11. chris: May I kindly suggest you take a few deep breaths and relax a bit?

  12. Kathy: At the Sabine Farm the Veuve Clicquot is chilling.

  13. dcs says:

    invocante writes:
    The MP does not come into force until 14 Sept so your young priest (and you) will have to wait a while yet, sadly, to say the old rite under this MP (of course you may be celebrating under the existing limited indult).

    We don’t know what the MP says yet, if it says that the 1962 books are not abrogated then a priest need not wait for any specific date to celebrate the old Mass. I suspect that any effective date has to do with the public celebration of the old Mass in parishes. Since Mater Ecclesiae is dedicated to the celebration of the old Mass and Sacraments, such an effective date would not apply to it.

    chris asks:
    Father, how does a full indult Parish celebrate a 1967 anticipated mass???

    Anticipated Masses are provided for in the 1983 Code of Canon Law which applies to the entire Roman Rite, including the Indult Mass.

    Mark writes:
    Kudos to the Bishop for setting up this Parish.

    The kudos belong to His Excellency Bishop Nicholas DiMarzio, the current Ordinary of the Diocese of Brooklyn, who was the Bishop of Camden when Mater Ecclesiae was founded/regularized in 2000.

    Hope this helps.

  14. James R. A. Brown says:

    News of planned celebrations marking the promulgation of the Motu Proprio, —– a document still under embargo at this time —— , are starting to roll in.

    Thanks for respecting the embargo, Fr. Z. I’ve waited very long to see this indult, and I would rather do it in accordance with the wishes of the `Most High Pontiff,’ rather than hear snippets of news from others. It is almost like spoiling a surprise. I would urge everyone to stop reading blogs that violate the embargo. At worst, its a good penance to wait. At best, you will be obeying the obvious wishes of the Pope.

  15. Claud says:

    dcs–

    I believe there was a hint on the previous thread! ;)

    (not that we couldn’t have guessed!)

  16. Chris says:

    Along these lines father, do you speculate there is a chance the Holy Father will himself offer the Extraordinary Mass? I think that really would have a profound symbolic effect.

  17. Chris: Actually, I think that would be huge! Maybe even bigger than the MP itself.

  18. Me says:

    Dear Fr.,

    Could you provide a short history of the Missal from 1962 to 1975. For example, I have a “Roman Missal” (altar size) published in 1964 by Catholic Book Publishing that is Latin/English. Is this the 1962 with English? It would not seem to be the alterations of 1965 given the date.

  19. Tim Ferguson says:

    These celebrations of the Te Deum are spreading like wildfire! Let’s hope that no one suffers Te Deum taedium…

  20. Tim: ROFL! Latin puns at this hour. Pudeat te tui!

  21. Guy Power says:

    I thought this might be appropriate — feel free to copy:

    http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/3015/churchsignya6.jpg

  22. berenike says:

    That linked picture- I’ve seen the sign before – a couple of years ago someone emailed me a photo of it – it read then “Lying in bed shouting “Oh God!’ does not constitute going to church”. Is this parish real?

  23. Lynne says:

    Tony, from above…

    News of planned celebrations marking the promulgation of the Motu Proprio,——- a document still under embargo
    at this time——, are starting to roll in.

    Thanks for respecting the embargo, Fr. Z. I’ve waited very long to see this indult, and I would rather do it in accordance with the wishes of the `Most High Pontiff,’ rather than hear snippets of news from others. It is almost like spoiling a surprise. I would urge everyone to stop reading blogs that violate the embargo. At worst, its a good penance to wait. At best, you will be obeying the obvious wishes of the Pope.

  24. Jonathan Bennett says:

    How ’bout a second Te Deum for the other upcoming document settling the issue of the words “subsistit in” in Lumen Gentium.

    http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2007/07/new-document-of-congregation-for.html

  25. berenike says:

    Ja, well, I just looked more closely at it. I did wonder about the extra “n” (os is that some other joke I’ve failed to get?)

  26. chris says:

    Father: chris: May I kindly suggest you take a few deep breaths and relax a bit?

    I’m totally relaxed, but thoroughly confused. We keep telling the SSPX and independent chapels that we do need them because of the indult, then we do things like rite mixing and prove to them that they are indeed needed or the traditional liturgy in its purest sense is gone.

    I mean really, a 1967 anticipated mass in a 1962 indult parish? I don’t think one must be a knucle-dragging right winger to see the problem in this.

  27. dcs says:

    chris writes:
    I mean really, a 1967 anticipated mass in a 1962 indult parish? I don’t think one must be a knucle-dragging right winger to see the problem in this.

    chris, please see my post above. There is no problem at all in this. It is not rite-mixing. If it were rite-mixing, then the old fasting regulations (3 hours before Mass) also apply to the old Mass — but even the SSPX admits that they do not.

  28. Gene says:

    Chris:

    You raise a valid issue, but no one here we’ll listen to it now. Everyone is busy celebrating the Motu Proprio. Just keep your eyes and ears open; the future promises to be very interesting.

  29. Benard of Arezzo says:

    Berinike: I think it is a joke. I once saw a sequence of that church sign having a conversation with a Baptist church sign. It was pretty funny.

  30. Gene says:

    Chris:

    You raise a valid issue, but no one here will listen to it now. Everyone is busy celebrating the Motu Proprio. Just keep your senses about you; the future promises to be very interesting for traditionalists and progressives alike.

  31. chris says:

    dcs: I see what you’re saying with the new code. But I still don’t see why it is that nothing pre-1962 may ever set foot in the indult mass but so much post-1962 is allowed in. I’m affraid it’s a purposeful watering down of the traditional liturgy which should be stopped.

  32. Kris says:

    Fr. Z et al,

    After sending the info on the MP to a few priest friends who are either still in the missions in various 3rd world countries (mostly Latin America) I’m getting the response generally of “I’ve forgotten any Latin I knew” – this also from a retired rector of a struggling seminary. Soooo, is there a website for the refreshing of the basic necessities of just what they should know now? Or are we going to have to wait to see just what forms are going to be permitted? Supplying books may be a difficulty for some of these places.

  33. Tim Ferguson says:

    chris,

    I think the point is that a celebration of the Mass using the Missal of Bl. John XXIII is not along the lines of an historical re-enactment of what-life-was-like in 1962. Therefore, things which occurred in the Church since 1962 are taken into account, such as the permission for vigil Masses, the abbreviation of the communion fast and so forth.

  34. Tim: Right! This is not a “fly in amber” Motu Proprio.

  35. berenike says:

    “supplying books”

    mmm. All these sanguine comments about people following in their missals. Round here (Poland)you don’t even see hymnals for whatever reason; probably not financial these days, given the vasquantities of money spent on building monstrosities classified on some technicality as churches. Though, on the other hand, in my family there are at leat two copies of the 1969 missal still kicking around. Perhaps people will buy copies of the 1962.

  36. Perhaps if we view anticipatory Masses, expanded lectionary in the vernacular, and other “updates”, for want of a better word, not as bastardizing the 1962 Missal, but as classicizing the NO, some of us will be even happier.

    I say this as someone who views almost none of the changes as for the better. Maybe the additional prefaces? Certainly new saints’ feast days.

  37. Guy Power says:

    Berinke: *Ja, well, I just looked more closely at it. I did wonder about the extra “n” (os is that some other joke I’ve failed to get?)*

    No, the extra “n” is not a secret joke — just poor typing/proofing on *my* part.

    –Guy

  38. Serafino says:

    Well, I know several priests, including one pastor, who in anticipation of the MP, have been celebrating the TLM “privately” for the past month. These “private” Masses takes place at the old high altar before the regularly scheduled Sunday Masses.

    If the old rite has not been abrogated, what is the problem? Why do they have to wait until 14 September? I have noticed that more and more people attend the TLM, and the priests now give a sermon, and offer Holy Communion to those who are present. In my opinion, these Masses are both valid and licit.

  39. Kathy says:

    Fr. Z, I’ll take that as an invite and scout around for a cheap ticket. But just in case I can’t show, have a great time!

  40. Dr. Lee Fratantuono says:

    The new saints’ feasts issue is a strange one to get bent out of shape over.

    The 1962 Missal rubrics already allow the festal Mass of a saint on their day in the Martyrology, if the day permits “any Mass” (i.e., IV Class ferias).

    If it’s not the saint’s day in the Martyrology, one can always celebrate a Votive Mass (indeed, the 1962 Missal often notes texts for just such an occasion).

    Some of the “new” saints have proper Masses in the Missal’s Appendix (e.g., Maria Goretti).

    Newly canonized ones, of course, would need a Commons Mass until the day Rome prepared a proper Mass for them.

    I could never figure out why this was such an issue.

    A beautifully appropriate idea this coming Monday, 9 July, might be to offer a festal Mass in honor of the Chinese Martyrs…newly added to the Roman Calendar in 2001…with a Mass from the Common of Martyrs.

  41. Dr. Bombay says:

    If the anticipated Mass is allowed for the Old Rite, if this is not a fly in amber MP, am I correct in assuming it is also okay to use girl altar boys, distribute Communion in the hand and allow hoards of lay people to assist in the distribution of Holy Communion, including the cup, at the 1962 Mass?

    Not asking to be argumentative, just curious.

  42. RBrown says:

    It has been pointed out that the MP comes tomorrow, 7-7-07.

    I wonder whether the Montini changes began on 6-6-66.

  43. Dr. Lee Fratantuono says:

    Implying that the changes after the Council under Paul VI were Satanic in either their origin or their effect isn’t helpful or appropriate.

  44. Dr. Bombay says:

    Was that directed at me? Who’s implying Satanism???

  45. Iosephus says:

    A delegation of the Cornell Society for a Good Time will be at Mater Ecclesiae this Sunday, and we are very much looking forward to the Te Deum!

  46. Dr. Lee Fratantuono says:

    Nah, at the 6-6-66 quip.

  47. Dr. Bombay says:

    Ah, yes. Didn’t notice that one. Sorry, doc.

  48. greg says:

    I, too, would like to know the answers to Dr. Bombay’s question:

    “If the anticipated Mass is allowed for the Old Rite, if this is not a fly in amber MP, am I correct in assuming it is also okay to use girl altar boys, distribute Communion in the hand and allow hoards of lay people to assist in the distribution of Holy Communion, including the cup, at the 1962 Mass?”

    If the answers are yes, then we should expect to see many of the current liturgical novelties present in future Tridentine Masses. That spells real problems in my book (i.e. you could forget about luring back many of the wayward traditionalists).

    Inquiring minds want to know…

  49. FranzJosf says:

    Although it isn’t generally known, any priest who wishes may retain the exclusive use of males to serve the New Mass, it is merely up to the Bishop to permit girl servers where desired.

  50. chris says:

    Father, so anyone who goes a little futher than someone else in upholding tradition is a “fly in amber”?

    That’s interesting. That’s the same mentality the Supreme Court used to interpret Roe when they wrote “privacy” into the “living and breathing” constitution and allowed abortion on demand. I bet detractors of that ruling back then were accused of the same “fly in amber” mentality.

  51. chris: Skating on thin ice here, are we?

  52. Le Renard says:

    Father, so anyone who goes a little futher than someone else in upholding tradition is a “fly in amber”?

    It depends what you mean by “tradition”.

  53. greg says:

    Sorry to be a pest, but I’d really like someone “in the know” to answer this question:

    “Will the Masses to be celebrated according to the 1962 missal, as now further liberalized by this Motu Proprio, include characteristics of Masses celebrated according to the 1969 (or current) missal? These characteristics include, but are not limited to, communion in the hand, communion under both Species, communion distributed by extraordinary ministers, etc.?

    I think these are valid questions that are on the minds of many Faithful. Anyone able/willing to answer?

  54. Dr. Lee Fratantuono says:

    Actually, I think those questions do indeed demand a bit of trust.

    I am all too well aware of the problems from the left. But it’s sometimes enough to drive me far over to the left when I hear the (often tiresome) whining of the right about this or that. In less than a day the 1962 liturgical books will be freed, and all some people wonder about is the imagined threat of girls saying “Ad Deum qui laetificat iuventutem meam.”

    Please. Enough with the conspiracy theories already.

  55. greg: Please understand that how Communion was distributed or the sex of the person who could serve at Mass was NOT a part of the pre-Conciliar Missal. Those were matters of separate legislation.

    However, given the situation we are dealing with, I think it unlikely that these will be a problem, judging from what I read in the Motu Proprio. People who desire the older form of Mass will not be asking for altar girls or Communion on the hand. A priest or bishop who tries to impose those things would not get too far, I think.

  56. Jordan Potter says:

    Chris said: I bet detractors of that ruling back then were accused of the same “fly in amber” mentality.

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but it sounds to me like you don’t want any post-1962 liturgical developments in your Tridentine Masses. So “fly in amber” sounds dead on target to me.

  57. Henry Edwards says:

    If the anticipated Mass is allowed for the Old Rite, if this is not a fly in amber MP, am I correct in assuming it is also okay to use girl altar boys, distribute Communion in the hand and allow hoards of lay people to assist in the distribution of Holy Communion, including the cup, at the 1962 Mass?

    This looks to me like an apples vs. oranges question. As I understand it, an anticipated Mass is allowed by currently applicable canon law for the whole Roman rite — whether in older or newer form — whereas I assume that none of the other things listed is mentioned in canon law.

    But I am the furthest thing from a canon lawyer, and have not even recently consulted my copy of the 1983 version, so anyone who knows more can correct me if I am wrong.

  58. greg says:

    Fr. Z,

    Thanks so much for answering my question. I understand your point about the 1962 missal. One clarification please: what’s to keep my pastor from saying to those requesting the Traditional Mass: “Okay, I’ll provide one TLM per week, but for the sake of parish unity, it must include Eucharistic Ministers, standing form of communion, etc.”

    How is this situation handled under the new Motu Proprio?

    And to respond to Jordan: Yes, many TLM followers want, and expect, a liturgy reflecting the earlier norms. I doubt a modernized TLM will draw many of them back into their local parishes. Isn’t that one of the Pope’s main objectives for this Motu Proprio?

  59. greg: I sincerely doubt that the pastor would be so narrow. However, that being the case, you would appeal to his better angels. If that doesn’t work, you appeal to the bishop.

    I suspect bishops given the change in the wind, are not going to want to fight over things like this. They will act properly.

    But remember, all these people involved are PEOPLE. They must be approached properly and with a little TLC.

  60. greg says:

    Dr. Fratantuono,

    With all due respect, I think your comments reflect a rather uncharitable attitude. “Conspiracy theories?” Hardly. Rather, I am curious to know how the MP process will work, and thus I ask honest questions. Don’t try to imply that I’m some kind of Traditionalist trouble-maker. I assume this blog is intended for intellectual discourse. Unless I’m being rude or abusive (or violating Father Z’s rules, in which case, I’d prefer to hear it from him), I should have a right to ask a legimate question without someone trying to characterize my motives.

  61. Let’s breathe deeply. I don’t want to shut comments off, if I can help it.

  62. greg says:

    Dear Fr. Z,

    I have no further questions. I think you’ve done a good job of answering them. Have a great weekend — and God Bless!

  63. swmichigancatholic says:

    Remember, that you can move to another parish if you need to. That hasn’t changed. We learned to do that in the last 40 years.

  64. RBrown says:

    Implying that the changes after the Council under Paul VI were Satanic in either their origin or their effect isn’t helpful or appropriate.
    Comment by Dr. Lee Fratantuono

    Lighten up. It was a joke.

    But then again PVI himself said the smoke of Satan had entered the Church.

  65. RBrown says:

    If the anticipated Mass is allowed for the Old Rite, if this is not a fly in amber MP, am I correct in assuming it is also okay to use girl altar boys, distribute Communion in the hand and allow hoards of lay people to assist in the distribution of Holy Communion, including the cup, at the 1962 Mass?

    1. I think you have to distinguish between the rite itself (which does not allow Communion in the hand, etc) and when a mass is said. Just because someone says an anticipatory mass on Sat eve using the 1962 Missal doesn’t make him a sacerdotal anarchist.

    2. But I must say that you have stumbled onto a problem that was wrestled with even before Vat II–Tradition vs traditions.

    As an unrepentant Thomist in education and practice, I am not fond of arguments from tradition, mostly because I think they fail to get at theological heart of the life of the Church. In fact, when I was teaching at the FSSP seminary, I was asked whether I would teach the course on Tradition. I said no.

    3. I also think it’s very important to distinguish Latin liturgy (and the 1962 Missal) from the By the Numbers Counter Reformation Church. That way of life is gone and not coming back. But it doesn’t mean that vernacular liturgy and versus populum should now be the norm, so that Protestant oriented Ecumenism may be fertilized.

  66. jwsr says:

    At Mary Immaculate, Newton, MA
    (Fr Charles Higgins)

    Processional: Te Deum Laudamus
    Recessional: O Holy Name O’Connell (Holy Name Society Sunday)

    after Mass, chant Prayer of Thankgiving to our Sovereign Pontiff,
    Benedict XVI – Oremus pro Pontifice/Tu es Petrus

    4th verse of Recessional
    Up Christian soldiers, Christ who goes before us,
    Shows us his Cross, and leads the way,
    Benedict, our Pontiff, guides and God is o’er us,
    Vict’ry is ours if we but watch and pray,

    Fierce is the fight for God and the Right,
    Sweet Name of Jesus, in thee is our might.