Feedback from a Jesuit: WDTPRS is a “prison of accuracy”

I get a lot of e-mail feedback from my columns in The Wanderer and from commentary on this blog and various interviews.  Here was a truly amusing bit I received this morning.  It is from Fr. Philip Chircop, SJ who, it seems from my brief internet search on his name, specializes in workshops and retreats.

My emphases.

Dear John

I happened on your web-site and blog and I had to quickly move elsewhere as I found myself entering a prison!  You yourself put it so beautifully and powerfully well “Slavishly accurate Liturgical Translations”!  What a pity it is to be a prisoner of accuracy and prisoner of the letter when we are called to be not “slavishly” but “LAVISHLY” and creatively free, open and awake enough to listen to the ever fresh daily rhythms of the Spirit who is beyond all boundaries and who as you know breathes where She wills!  Be blessed John and may you know true freedom in the one who came to set us ALL free.

Philip sj

 

Just what are "rhythms of the Spirit"? 

In any event, Fr. Chircop didn’t really bother to find out why this WDTPRS project exists, why we do what we do here.

I don’t think he read even one of the archived columns, in which I first dissect the prayers with slavish accuracy and only then drill down into them to see where they might lead us. 

So, everyone, welcome to "the prison of accuracy".

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About Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Fr. Z is the guy who runs this blog. o{]:¬)
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96 Responses to Feedback from a Jesuit: WDTPRS is a “prison of accuracy”

  1. Joe says:

    Where She wills? Must be a fan of “First Comes Love”

  2. Khaled says:

    A perfect example of why the Jesuits need to be suppressed, Again!

  3. Craigmaddie says:

    What a pity it is to be a prisoner of accuracy and prisoner of the letter…

    That sounds a bit like the old complaint about someone “clouding the argument with facts”.

  4. Patrick A. says:

    Did it ever occur to the dear Jesuit that the ‘rythm of the Spirit’ has led you to use your creative freedom to create the lavishly slavish translations?

  5. Geoffrey says:

    I think it’s pretty nice around here for a “prison”…

  6. Arieh says:

    I guess if you have no convictions “creativity” in the most august sacrifice of the mass is ok. It doesn’t suit me.

  7. danphunter1 says:

    Dear Warden Zuhlsdorf,
    I think the food is pretty good here. Who is the cook?
    Yours in Christ, #8675308

  8. Tim Ferguson says:

    Glad to be in prison :)

    melior est dies una in atriis tuis super milia elegi abiectus esse

    but you gotta love that Jesuit wordplay – not slavish, but lavish. How cute. Though, in fain, I can think of few things more lavish than worshipping the Lord in both spirit and truth.

    In his flyer for a recent talk on “Exquisite Risk” (link to the PDF file, including a picture of Fr. Philip, replete with lei) Fr. Philip notes that “exquisite risk” is “the risk to put our house in order. It is the risk to move from the superficial and skin-deep to the radical and soul-deep…practices will include slowing, softening, silencing, surrendering and simplifying.”

    I think if Fr. Philip had taken the time to explore this blog a bit more, he would have found that this is what Fr. Z is doing – helping to put our house in order, by encouraging more faithful translations in the vernacular liturgy; moving from the superficial and skin-deep of pop-psychology masked as profound theology into the “soul-deep” of authentic, exciting, orthodox theology rooted in our tradition, and encouraging those who find in the extraordinary form of the Latin liturgy a slowing, softening and silencing, as we simplify our liturgy by abandoning lame attempts at creativity and surrendering to the beauty and depth of the faith of our fathers.

  9. Mark says:

    Well, I for one prefer the prison of accuracy to the land of wooly fuzzy-at-the-edges…

  10. Diane says:

    I wonder if Fr. Chircop could get anywhere near the hit count as this one if he produced his own blog where he can freely express himself.

  11. J Basil Damukaitis says:

    Ohhhh Father SJ!
    Yes we must not be prisoners to things such as “reality” or “truth” Those pesky things that crush our spirits. People who actually talk like that in “the real world”, and I’m NOT kidding here,are either psychotic or neurotic! Check it out in the DSM!!! SERIOUSLY!

  12. billsykes says:

    This guy can’t be the real thing. That email was a hyper-caricature if I’ve ever seen one.

  13. Father Bartoloma says:

    Hmmm… I’d say centering prayer and a water bong

  14. dan: ROFL! Excellent.

  15. Craigmaddie says:

    It reminds me of the Blondel’s definition of truth as the conformity of our mind to our own lives, which seems to me like the most subtle and saddest prison there is.

  16. dcs says:

    We ought to be happy to be slaves of Our Lord Who is Truth.

  17. Craigmaddie says:

    Father Z, does this mean you have a Roman Chasuble with arrows on it?

  18. Mrs Kimball says:

    someone is pulling your leg,it has to be a joke,i thought i had heard everything

  19. torear says:

    As one who was Jesuit educated and longs for the days when the Society actually fulfilled the charism of St. Ignatius and St. Francis Xavier, I just have to shake my head…

  20. David Andrew says:

    I am reminded of a quote regarding Henry Edward Cardinal Manning, Archbishop of London (and convert to Catholicism), of whom it was said, “Even the Jesuits trembled, and obeyed.”

  21. Kurt says:

    Where She wills? Must be a fan of “First Comes Love”

    I doubt it! ‘First Comes Love’ argues against such language: “In the relations of the human family, the life of the Trinity is reflected more truly and fully than anywhere else in the natural order. In other words, the analogy of bridal motherhood is relational and familial, not physical or sexual (much less political). Thus, in the testimonies of the Scriptures and the saints, we will find no justification for goddess worship, no warrant for English speakers to begin calling God by feminine pronouns.” [source]

  22. Tim Ferguson says:

    I am a bit disappointed, however, that, as warden, you have yet to say, “What we have here is a failure to communicate.”

  23. Kurt says:

    Where She wills? Must be a fan of “First Comes Love”

    I doubt it! ‘First Comes Love’ argues against such language: “In the relations of the human family, the life of the Trinity is reflected more truly and fully than anywhere else in the natural order. In other words, the analogy of bridal motherhood is relational and familial, not physical or sexual (much less political). Thus, in the testimonies of the Scriptures and the saints, we will find no justification for goddess worship, no warrant for English speakers to begin calling God by feminine pronouns.” [source]

  24. dcs: slaves of Our Lord Who is Truth

    So, this is not only a “prison of accuracy” but also a “slave labor camp of Truth”.

  25. Craigmaddie says:

    Does this mean that we are in the chain gang?

  26. cianciara jm says:

    Isn’t true Faith a prison to those who are on the outside but it is a fullness of life in Christ to those being on the inside. God bless. JMC

  27. Craig: does this mean you have a Roman Chasuble with arrows on it?

    Umm… actually.  Yes, I do.  Moved by the rhythms of traditional Roman pratice, I have my coat-of arms on several of my Roman style vestments.  My family coat-of arms has two crossed cross-bow bolts.



  28. Joe says:

    There is nothing physical or sexual between the Persons in the Godhead, it is all relational. Yet we use masculine pronouns analogously to describe God’s internal relationship and His relationship to us.

    If the Spirit is bridal/maternal in relationship to us and to the other two Persons in the Godhead, what prevents feminine pronouns? Hahn simply dismissing the criticism doesn’t adequately paper over the logical conclusion of his theory.

  29. FloridaJohn says:

    Fr. Philip talks about “freedom” but what happened to “not my will but Thy Will be done?” What happened to “obedience” to the Magisterium? When I asked the priest why he allows the sacristan or EM to clean the chalice, his answer was “freedom!” When he inserts his own words in the Canon or doesn’t follow the rubrics that’s his freedom too, but there has to be a price to pay for this freedom (disobedience), yes? Otherwise, anything goes! The chaos is out there already. I believe we are more free when we obey!

  30. Arieh says:

    The Zuhlsdorf Gulag

  31. Rob in Maine says:

    Every time I get to like the Jesuits, one of them goes and turns me sour again.

    It took me years to warm to them again after Jesuit High School, then the Jesuit who married my wife and I insulted me on my wedding day. Trying to be funny, he asked if I was “supposed to be some sort of cowboy” in my tuxedo. It was a mandarin collar with studs on the shirt.

    I’ve become friendly with the Jesuit Hospital Chaplain where I work. Should I tell him one of his brothers opened mouth and inserted foot?

  32. Maureen says:

    I don’t think we’re in a chain gang so much as a coetus
    catenae. Hopefully a stable one. :)

    There’s a very famous Irish poem on the subject of “The Child Born in Prison” — an analogy to how we are born.

    http://www.archipelago.org/vol7-3/5.htm

    (This is only the exemplum part of the poem; it’s preceded and followed by praise of the poet’s earthly lord and admonishments of his lord to virtue, if I recall correctly.)

  33. Philothea says:

    Fr. Chircop may be interested to read the words of the Holy Father in his book, The Spirit of the Liturgy, p. 168: “Yes, the liturgy becomes personal, true, and new, not through tomfoolery and banal experiments with the words, but through a courageous entry into the great reality that through the rite is always ahead of us and can never quite be overtaken.”

    Anyway, I believe Scripture tells us that we are all slaves to SOMETHING; we need to choose the best prison possible.

  34. Matt Robinson says:

    If this is a prison, then please give me a life sentence.

    I prefer this environment to the “Rubber Room” of the Jesuit-run Asylum any day.

  35. mike says:

    Drink a water boss?

    m

  36. Devalos says:

    I hope this thread won’t turn into a Jesuit-bashing arena. But Philip SJ should’ve found out what WDTPRS is all about before criticising. And there’s no need to be so patronising and “more-liberated-than-thou”. I’m sure (I hope!) he wouldn’t speak to Fr Z like that to his face; it was quite rude.

  37. RC says:

    I love it! Can’t think of a nicer bit of praise. You should use it for a book blurb!

    Coming soon: Splendor Carceris?

  38. Kurt says:

    Joe

    I don’t think that Hahn’s analagous application of such imagery to the Holy Spirit in any way demands or justifies the use of feminine pronouns. The language of the Gospels is normative. In any case, I didn’t want to spark a discussion of Hahn’s work — the debate has been raging for nearly five years already.

    I simply wanted to make this point: Since Hahn expressly rejects the use of feminine pronouns for the Holy Spirit in ‘First Comes Love’, it is unlikely that a priest who chooses to use such language would be a great fan of the book.

  39. we want to say something but we can’t think of anything that doesn’t detract from the beauty of the original

    Maybe it’s a really deep-cover spoof (think Snape)?

    B & B

  40. FrV says:

    This is more evidence why the Jesuits are in crisis. Rather than doing any thinking “philip sj” was simply emoting.

  41. Leslie says:

    Thanks for the laugh. You sure he isn’t kidding? It’s so like the SOV2 blog, they could recruit him.

  42. Geoffrey says:

    Fr. Z:

    Love the coat of arms! I am an avid fan of heraldry, both civil and ecclesial, and I have never heard of the custom of priests placing their arms on their chasuble! Very interesting! :-)

    Oh, and if you wouldn’t mind, please wear it the next time you say Mass in the prison chapel for all us inmates! ;-)

  43. jkabel says:

    Father,

    What sort of coat-of-arms is that for a guy from Minnesota?

    Where the heck’s the gopher and walleye?

  44. Father: ROFL! I can’t help it.

    I think you have LIBERATED texts on this blog from their decades in the
    prison of political distortion.

    If I’m well behaved, can I get my satellite TV back?

  45. Norman Lee says:

    Fr Z, funny that this should come up.

    The thing is, I have found that those of the liberal bent share similar views. Two incidents.

    When I suggested to a fellow university student at the Catholic students’ society to “look at the content of the protestant songs that you are singing more carefully”, the reply was, “everyone has a right to express their faith in their own way” and “we don’t need to intellectualize the faith”.

    There was also once I raised up at a lectors’ group meeting in my parish the ‘need to choose hymns carefully so that they are theologically correct’. That same evening I received a rather argumentative email from a fellow lector chiding me for such a view. “Sing a new song to the Lord”, he said, “not sing-a-theologically-correct-song”.

    What was particularly traumatic was that I was chided for being … Catholic. I couldn’t sleep that night. I left that lectors’ group soon after and went off to sing Gregorian chant.

  46. Fr “Philip sj” can’t be serious. It’s just too perfectly parodic. If he is serious, then that’s a highly disturbing message. Who’s the she? His parish musical directress?

  47. Pam says:

    Acts 16:25 About midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns to God, and the other prisoners were listening to them.

    This sounds like us “prisoners”, don’t you think?

  48. Ed Mechmann says:

    Well, slavery to Jesus in Mary was good enough for St. Louis de Montfort and millions of his disciples, so you’re in good company, Fr. Z!

  49. RBrown says:

    Either the Jesuit was writing a parody–or else he is all but beyond help.

    Rhythms of the Spirit? Maybe he’s referring to those Jesuit priests who were ordained in the US in the last 30 years–all 12 or 13 of them.

    Or it could be the Musical Magic of the St Louis Jesuit Songbook, those masterpieces produced by the genius Bob Dufford, Dan Schutte, Roc O’Connor, and John Foley.

  50. Raymundus says:

    Look straight ahead, please.

    Now, turn to your left.

    Fr. Z., when do you give us the speech about our heart belonging to Jesus, but…something something…belonging to you (read: the Warden)…?

  51. Prof. Basto says:

    to listen to the ever fresh daily rhythms of the Spirit who is beyond all boundaries and who as you know breathes where She wills .

    My feelings find expression in one of the final proclamations made at the solemn closing of the Holy Ecumenical Council of Trent:

    – Anathema to all heretics!

    – Fiat! Fiat! Fiat!

    Thinking of the post-60’s Jesuits, I sometimes regret that the Bull Dominus ac Redemptor was reppealed.

    Fr. Francisco Leme Lopes, SJ, you who blessed my parents marriage, you who baptized me; I trust that you are in Heaven, in the company of Our Lord and of the Blessed Mother. Pray for the Society of Jesus, pray for us to God! St. Ignatius, pray for the reverend Catholic Clergy, pray for the Church!

  52. Juan Tradicional says:

    Warden Z:

    This now officially makes the only Phillip who is a Jesuit whom I would let my children hear a homily from is Fr. Phillip Bourret, SJ over here at the Oratory of Our Mother of Perpetual Help. And he was consecrated as a priest in 1941. Pray for his health.

    Great website, Warden.

    Pax Christi,

    #24601

  53. Thomas says:

    I hope this thread won’t turn into a Jesuit-bashing arena.

    No need for that – Fr. Philip has that covered all by himself!

  54. Fr. A says:

    Commenting on a contemporary music CD, the Jesuit said, “Caught in the interweave of meaningful lyrics, songs emerge from the depths and melodies that bounce and dance to the rhythm of the spirit.” I guess that’s a phrase he really, really likes. ;-)

  55. Serafino says:

    The good Reverend Father gives new meaning to the words, “Confused as a Jesuit during Holy Week!”

  56. Anthony says:

    Dear Taskmaster Z,

    Alcatraz never felt better!

    Yours thankfully in Christ,
    A.

  57. Mark Jacobson says:

    From St. Louis de Montfort’s “True Devotion to Mary”:
    “There is nothing among men that makes us belong to another more than slavery; there is nothing also among Christians that makes us belong so completely to Jesus Christ and to His Holy Mother as voluntary slavery, according to the example of Jesus Christ Himself, who took the form of a slave for love of us: Formam servi accipiens, and of the Holy Virgin, who called herself the servant and the slave of the Lord. The Apostle was honored to call himself servus Christi. Christians are called several times in the Holy Scriptures servi Christi; the word servus, according to a truthful remark made by a great man, used to signify nothing other than slave, because there were not as yet servants as we have them today, masters being only served by slaves or freed slaves; that which the Catechism of the Holy Council of Trent, in order to leave absolutely no doubt that we are slaves of Jesus Christ, expresses by a term which is unequivocal, in calling us mancipia Christi: slaves of Jesus Christ.”

    Yes, I am a slave of Jesus Through Mary… and proud of it (in a humble way, of course).

  58. Fr. Paul McDonald says:

    Dear Father:
    Was your coat-of-arms *hand-embroidered* on these chasubles? If so, can you tell us who still does such work ? I would dearly love to know!

  59. David M.O'Rourke says:

    No! This isn’t a parody at all. In fact were it not signed fr. Philip S.J. I would sware that it came from a very dear friend of mine who is close to becoming an Anglican priestess. This is EXACTLY the kind of answer she would give me when she is accusing me of being too legalistic for insisting on the proper matter and form for a sacrament. Surprisingly she is a wonderful wife to her husband and mother to her children and she is deeply devoted to the Blessed Sacrament as well as to Our Lady. Not your typical militant feminist.

    How does one even begin to bring the facts to bear against something so nebulous and cliche ridden stuff of which Fr. Philips letter is but an example. It is like boxing with a cloud.

    To which my friend might reply, “Maybe it’s the Cloud of unknowing.”

    Grrrrr!!!!!!!

  60. Fr. Paul McDonald says:

    Dear Father:
    Was your coat-of-arms *hand-embroidered* on these chasubles? If so, can you tell us who still does such work ? I would dearly love to know!

  61. Paul, South Midlands says:

    This is satire surely. That was writing worthy of the Anglican bishop of Nerdley the Rt Revd Ghengis Spaceley-Trellis (with apologies to the late Peter Simple)

  62. Maureen: I don’t think we’re in a chain gang so much as a coetus catenae.

    LOL!

  63. Fr. McD: Was your coat-of-arms hand-embroidered on these chasubles?

    Alas, no. I had the arms embroidered and applied.

  64. Raymundus: Fr. Z., when do you give us the speech about our heart belonging to Jesus,…

    WHO GAVE YOU PERMISSION TO SPEAK?

    o{];¬)

  65. Sid Cundiff says:

    Father Phil. A aging hippie stuck in the Woodstock Music Festival’s mud. Doc Leary’s mushrooms on the refectory menu. Space Cadet in the sacristy. Flower child’s stained glass. I’m OK, your OK in the commune’s confessional. LSD for wafer, pot for circumcision. I got you, babe [for Midnight Mass]. California Dreamin’ [for the First Scrutiny]. Everybody’s surfing, surfing USA [for the Second]. The extraordinary form is not healthy for children and other living things. Come on, baby, light my fire [for the Easter Vigil]. TM for Spiritual Exercises. Psychedelic for the Application of the Senses. If it feels good, do it. Having a meaningful relationship. Situation Ethics. Steal this book. God is dead. Far out. Groovy, man. Filmore East. Blow my mind. I get high with a little help from my friends. Strawberry fields forever. I can’t get no satisfaction. Puff the Magic Dragon finishes his novitiate.

  66. LPD says:

    Dear Father Z, Cannot think of anyone better to do hard time with. I am praying for a life sentence for us all!

  67. Carl H. Horst says:

    Just about what one would expect from a modern day Jesuit. What a pity! We ought to invite Fr. Ken Baker, S.J. to respond.

  68. Paul Stokell says:

    If what the dear Jesuit father is saying is true, then Thomas Merton’s words about the “four walls of freedom” ring ever truer.

    Dare we ask for a counter-point from Mitch Pacwa, S.J.?

  69. Fr. Jim says:

    I guess if you have to be in prison this is the place to be. It is better then being imprisoned in the 1970’s, which is where Fr. Philip seems trapped. The Spirit appears to be blowing in the direction of Latin.

  70. Elizabeth V says:

    Better to be in a prison of accuracy than in a prison of inaccuracy.

  71. Jess says:

    I guess the dear Jesuit prefers Native American smudge rituals, ribbon dancing and wicca-style chant circles. Good for him, but give me the mass!

  72. Michael says:

    Be blessed John and may you know true freedom in the one who came to set us ALL free.

    This is extremely creepy, is it not? ‘Blessed be’ is a new age blessing and the reference to one who came to set us ALL free without mentioning the name of Jesus anywhere could be a reference to the enemy of God seeking to free us from him who created us. Is Fr. Philip in need of an exorcism?

  73. Linda says:

    Fr. Phil isn’t just a Jesuit; he’s a Jesuit from Canada! No wonder he speaks such nonsensical ideas. Fr. Z’s anti-spam word for this is “Pray for our priests;” how appropriate. Although Fr. Phil’s words are laughable, he with most of his Canadian colleagues (and much of the Canadian Church)need prayer.

  74. kimberly says:

    Lock me up, Father! Happy to be here!

  75. Stu says:

    Saint Ignatius, ora pro nobis.

  76. jmgarciaiii says:

    As one who has much love for St. Ignatius and all the other noble and courageous Jesuits priests and religious, and who sweats the future of the Society (daily!) in prayer, I must confess that Fr. Chircop’s words pain me more than I can accurately (!) express.

    If accuracy is a prison, I’m glad I tunneled IN.

    Now, which way to Solitary?

    -J.

  77. Marcus says:

    I’ve been locked up in worse places…

  78. Christopher Tomaszewski says:

    Am I the only one who thinks our Jesuit friend was being sarcastic?

  79. ave maria says:

    The sad thing is that I think the poor priest was serious! I recently heard some of the same kind of stuff from a misguided priest.

    I will enter into the prison of obedience for as I read the lives of the saints, I see that perfect obedience was always the goal–not ‘creativity’ or ‘do your own thing’ or any of that and most especially they always followed the directives of the Church. That is the path to holiness after all.

  80. Seumas says:

    All,

    I have given the English translations for the sake of comprehension, but remember what all the best exorcists say; the devil hates Latin. So let’s use it.

    Remember also that while prayer is powerful, it is much more powerful if we add penances and sacrifices.

    *Prayer for priests:*

    DEUS, qui ad maiestatis tuae gloriam et generis humani salutem, Unigenitum tuum summum atque aeternum constituisti Sacerdotem: praesta, ut quos ministros et mysteriorum suorum dispensatores elegit, in accepto ministerio adimplendo fideles inveniantur. Per eundem Christum Dominum nostrum. Amen.

    O GOD, who hast appointed Thine only-begotten Son to be the eternal High Priest for the glory of Thy Majesty and the salvation of mankind; grant that they whom He hath chosen to be His ministers and the stewards of His mysteries, may be found faithful in the fulfillment of the ministry which they have received. Through the same Christ our Lord. Amen.

    Seems appropriate to throw in one *for conversions:*

    DOMINE Iesu, clementissime Salvator mundi, te per sacratissimum Cor tuum supplices exoramus, ut omnes oves errantes ad te Pastorem et Episcopum animarum suarum convertantur: Qui vivis et regnas in saecula saeculorum. Amen.

    LORD Jesus Christ, merciful Savior of the world, we humbly beseech Thee by Thy Most Sacred Heart that all the straying sheep may turn unto Thee, the Shepherd and Bishop of their souls: Thou who livest and reignest forever and ever. Amen.

  81. Ma Beck says:

    Glad to be incarcerated, Father.

  82. TJM says:

    Poor Father Phil, he’s soooooo passe and hopelessly mired in the 60s-70s. I always worry about reactionary types like him. Pray for him, in Latin! Tom

  83. Pater Iterum Jubilus says:

    Hard to tell if the quote is parody or reality.

    I have heard worse and weirder from Jesuits and former Jesuits, so it’s not out of the realm of possibility. Just read Drinan, and erstwhile Jebbies like Dan Maguire and Joseph O’Rourke on abortion and you will really doubt what they actually said. Read others on their Christology and you will find Father Philip almost to be a voice of rationality.

    I get very angry at the Jesuits. No bashing here, but it is hard to be proud of them as I once was.

    They do have immortal souls. Prayer makes converts. PLease say three Hail Marys right now for Father Phil that he be lead to the beauty of the ancient rite. Better to have him as a friend and disciple than abandon him.

    PS Dear Father Phil, Come home. We truly want you to see and know the graces of the ancient Mass.

  84. Jack says:

    Better a prison of accuracy than a nuthouse of ambiguity. I really appriciate this blog – I’ve learned so much from it that has helped me deepen my faith.

  85. “The Truth shall set you free.”
    Being slavishly accurate reveals more Truth than doing whatever is at your whimsy.

  86. Cody says:

    That is the kind of nonsense that led my wife and I to leave our Jesuit
    perish (misspelling intended). That reminds me of when pro-life activist
    David Bereit debated Planned Parenthood’s chaplain on Fox News (neither were
    Catholics). The chaplain (who wore a Roman collar) said that Christ died
    to free us to be able to choose what we will!

  87. Janet says:

    I bet Fr. Pacwa must cringe at the thought that both he and this squirrely guy in the lei both have SJ behind their names! On one end of the spectrum, you have Fr. Pacwa, who is an extremely knowledgeable biblical scholar… and then you have Fr. Phil, the new-ager. How can the same order produce such extremes?

  88. Thomas says:

    If ever I should be released from this “prison”, I will commit the appropriate “crime” to be sent back! No parole, please.

  89. FR K says:

    As lost as a Jesuit in Holy Week!

  90. Matthew Mattingly says:

    I think “Fr. Chircop” is a fake person. I think the -mail was a joke. No one can be that sick!
    I take that back, the average nun/femminist liturgical director could be, but I still think this is a joke posting.
    If it is a real person, and a Jesuit priest, it’s a good example of why the Jesuits are dying out rapidly.
    I think when the last Jesuit turns the lights out at their Generalate in Rome the Catholic Church will breathe a sigh of relief that they’re finally gone.
    Too bad a traditionalist group of Jesuits hasn’t been founded. We have traditionalist Franciscan, Dominican, Redemptorist, Carmelite, Capuchin, Cistercian, Carthusian foundations being made over the last 15+ years…..I think it’s time for a Jesuit one.

  91. Ma Beck says:

    I thought Fr. Chircop was fake too.
    Until I googled “Philip Chircop.”
    He’s quite real.

    St. Ignatius, pray for us!

  92. Okay, folks, I didn’t post this so that we could bash the Society of Jesus. I know some very fine Jesuits. They, need our support, while the bashing will fall on the deaf ears of the weirdos.

  93. TO says:

    I have to add on here, Fr.Z. Linda: I don’t think it’s very nice to bash an entire country of Catholic priests.

    And before you all carry on laughing, Fr. Chircop, SJ, is a real priest — or at least, the name is definitely real, and I know this because he is in weekend ministry at the parish in whose boundaries I reside. Note: I didn’t say I go there. I couldn’t stand the “lavish” liturgies and only attend when it’s too snowy to walk elsewhere in the winter months.

  94. stgemma0411 says:

    Ok…I have to put this down there, because it reminds of me of a cute joke.

    What’s the difference between a Jesuit and a Dominican?

    (pause)

    Answer: Seen any Albigensians, lately?

    Pax

  95. GOR says:

    When I studied Philosophy (in Latin!) at the Angelicum during the Vatican II years we had an elderly Irish Dominican for Logic. When he wrote a Jesuit’s name on the blackboard he always took great delight in pointing to the “S.J.” and saying: “…quae significat: ‘Soft Job’…”

    Just a little dig at the Dominican versus Jesuit view of things…. Though later at the Gregorian for Theology I don’t recall any Jesuit having a similar interpretation for “O.P.”

  96. Okay… I am closing this.