I told you so: Bennett clashes with Blitzer about “abstinence”

 

Please refer to this entry for background to what I will say.

I note on Creative Minority Report this interesting bit:

In an act of coarse opportunism CNN used young Bristol Palin’s situation as an opportunity to beat the drum for sex-education. Bill Bennett, on their political panel, did not sit idly by. No, he chastised CNN on air for dragging the young lady into the discussion and using her as a discussion point for their perennial advocacy of sex education and their equally enduring disdain for abstinence.

Bill Bennett rightly agrees that the debate of sex education is a legitimate one, but in no way should this young woman be exploited to advocate for a position in this debate.

Watch the clip here.

[youtube:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUsrTV_DSuc]

Lastly, the idea that one young girl who gets pregnant invalidates the concept of abstinence education simply because her mother advocates for it is patently absurd. Someone should remind CNN that the plural of anecdote is not data.

 

Yesterday I wrote this:

Tonight on cable news shows I saw more than one strategist/spokesperson/wonk, those coincidently more on the side of the platform of the Democrat Party, when the subject of Gov. Palin’s daughter’s pregnancy was introduced, immediately launched into a jeremiad against "abstinence" education in the face of the dire problem of teen pregnancy.   

 

Everyone … watch this situation develop!

UPDATE:

Some audio from Bill Bennett’s radio show this morning, 3 September:

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61 Responses to I told you so: Bennett clashes with Blitzer about “abstinence”

  1. TJM says:

    It just shows how sick in the head the America media has become. Tom

  2. Sussex Catholic says:

    Just an aside from across the pond but aren’t all these learned journalists and commentators missing the point? If the young Miss Palin had in fact abided by the abstinence policy her mother advocates then she would not now be in the situation that she is. They seem to be suggesting that her pregnancy has come about as a result of adherence to the policy rather than by breach of it. By whichever means Miss Palin came to be in her current situation (which I agree is a private matter) it was certainly not as a result of following the abstinence policy. It was at the very least a breach of it and might just as easily have been a failed attempt to follow the so called “safe sex” policy.

  3. Jim says:

    Why are they carping about this? Oh, thats right, its an election year and Palin is the Republican ticket VEEP. Would her daughter’s pregnancy have garnered a single headline outside of Alaska if that hadn’t been the case? As to the “talking head points” between Bill and Mort . . . the libs have always been about sexual “freedom”, and they don’t understand that making contraception available to teens doesn’t guarantee they’ll use it. All it guarantees is that the idea will be planted in their brains, “its okay for me to have sex.” So they pile sin upon sin and then wonder why the West is in the pickle it is right now. Amazing.

  4. Jacob says:

    I’ve seen the Kristol/Kondracke exchange referenced twice now and in both places, instead of quoting them directly, just the video has been posted.

    Is there a transcript of it or something or could someone transcribe it so I know what you’re all talking about. That’d be great, thanks. :)

  5. Larry says:

    Even as people email and call in to put down this type of reporting and explitation the media talking heads continue. This is meat as far as these vultures are concerned. I do hope and pray that God will give the Palin family the grace to standup to this assault. This is waht being a Christian and pro life is all about. We all make mistakes and seek forgiveness and we don’t compound our mistakes by lying or comitting murder. Every attempt is being made to call in to question McCain’s knowledge and judgement. I believe he did know and that this issues is a private matter and thus has no real impact on Mrs. Palin’s ability to serve as Vice President or even as President, should that become an issue.

  6. Warren says:

    The spotlight is now fully trained on the candidates and their teammates. In this age of uncivil discourse, we can expect crude commentary and boorish behavior from the media. There simply isn’t room in the mainstream media for informed, reasoned debate on the issues. News commentary, which assumes people are too stupid to see through the propaganda, has replaced mere reportage. Professional newsmen are no longer reporters, they are news sellers. They have confused the role of servant of truth with newsmaker, making themselves the object of interest. The web holds out a glimmer of hope that information will escape the censorship of leftwing social engineers.

    Despite the protestations of gossip mongers and voyeurs, no one has a right to exploit the private lives of politicians and their families. We’ve become a society of tattletales and liars.

  7. Ken says:

    Have you ever noticed it is the “Enlightened” liberals who take such grave offense at homosexuality (Cheney’s daughter) and teen pregnancy (Palin’s daughter)? Boy they just aren’t very compassionate.

  8. mpm says:

    Sussex Catholic,

    Your logic is impeccable, and even from this side of the pond I get the message.
    Unfortunately, logic doesn’t sell goods and services, and that’s what “news”
    is all about over hear!

  9. Deusdonat says:

    Ken – it’s not offense. I’m not speaking as or for liberals here. But the liberal OV here is that abstinence doesn’t work, therefore it is futile to preach it. And if the daughter of one of the biggest proponents of abstinence can become pregnant dispite all the abstinence education which must have gone on in the family, then this seemingly proves their point, and ghey are going to beat it to death.

    I, along with probably the overwhelming majority of posters here, do not subscribe to this point of view. But we need to understand and be prepared for it in order to refute it.

  10. JohnE says:

    I agree Sussex Catholic. One thing is certain – one can’t get pregnant through the practice of abstinence. What is uncertain is whether or not one will get pregnant practicing contraception, because that certainly can happen.

  11. Piers-the-Ploughman says:

    BHO’s mom was an 18 year old unwed. Do the liberals think she made a mistake in not using birth control? The liberals are just SICK. The tactics reflect palpable fear this election is not yet over.

  12. JM says:

    Why is sex “education” the responsibility of schools anyway? Or of the government? Why are we even having this debate? Parents and religious educators ought to be responsible for teaching a child about sex. Putting it in the hands of the government takes away from parents and churches the freedom to educate children as they want. Conservatives should avoid adopting the language of the enemy. Instead of supporting “abstinence education” why not support “no education”?

  13. Deusdonat says:

    JM – because kids spend 8 hours a day in school. If you think they aren’t hearing about sex there you’re on another plain of existence.

  14. John Enright says:

    Deusdonat said “But the liberal OV here is that abstinence doesn’t work, therefore it is futile to preach it.” I have to disagree. I only know of one instance where someone practicing abstinence became pregnant. In the usual course of events, abstinent persons do not become parents.

  15. Jennifer says:

    When I was in confirmation we were told that if we were to have sex to use a condom (by a priest). That was all I remembered. He didn’t say I would have to go to confession nor did he put this in context to the whole of our lives. I won’t go into details but that was an event that imprinted itself and I took it as the OK. (No education in the home.)

    I am guessing the majority of teen pregnancy was not because teens are only educated in abstinence only. In fact it may be authority figures around give the thumbs up to the kids sexual activity – from movies, commercials, magazines in the racks, to school education, to peer pressure. We need to get to the heart of why teens are driven to this behavior. Completely irresponsible journalism and who has a journalism degree again?? – maybe she will fight back on their turf too!

    thank you Fr z for all you do (I can’t get this info easily since I keep media out of the home that I can’t screen before hand)- young kids.

    Jennifer

  16. Deusdonat says:

    John Enright – obviously you disagree, as do I and the majority of posters here as I stated very clearly (but you did not bother to quote). Nevertheless, that IS the POV held by the liberal camp.

  17. Margaret says:

    All this pregnancy proves is that free will and original sin exist. I think we’ve all known (at least I have) solid, home-schooling, daily-Mass-going Catholics who still had a child pregnant out of wedlock. The real proof in the pudding is the fact that these kids (like Palin) don’t then sneak off to “cover up” their “mistake” at the abortion clinic. When the crisis really strikes, they remember what they’ve learned from the parents and do the right thing.

  18. TerryC says:

    One problem is that abstinence education must be uniformly taught. It does little good for parents to push abstinence when the schools and media are pushing pre-marital sex. More, they put out the message “of course you are going to have casual sex, and its alright.”
    Too many teens engage in sex, not because they think its casual, but because “they really love each other” and having sex is what the media tells them that people who “really love each other” do. At sixteen or seventeen or eighteen these kids are not experienced enough to be making these kinds of decisions, but the media tells them they are.
    Add in low self esteem, on the girl’s side because they feel unloved and this boy “really loves them” and on the boy’s side because “it’s all about how many girls I can have sex with to prove I’m a man” and you get a real problem.
    Schools are engaged in sex education because too many parents in the 1960’s did not do their jobs. That doesn’t just mean teach their kids about sex, but also they didn’t act forcefully enough to prevent media from teaching the wrong message, putting out pornography,and glamorizing casual sex behavior. So we ended up with a society with a great number of out of wedlock births, abortions on demand and all of the other problems.

  19. Charles R. Williams says:

    It is not a disaster when a teenage girl gets pregnant. It is a moral catastrophe when a teenage girl consciously and deliberately adopts a promiscuous, contraceptive lifestyle.

  20. Deusdonat says:

    Margaret – precisely. Which is why I believe this became public news. As I mentioned previously (and was spitefully blasted by another extremely uncharitable poster) the matter could have very easily been dealt with secretely/quietly by having the daughter and the fiancee elope weeks ago (they are already planning to marry, as per the reports), and THEN announce the pregnancy. But like I said, by having this out front, it shows that Palin is a woman of her word and “walks the walks” as per her convictions. Meaning, it’s all out there. She’s not hiding anything.

    I think this is refreshing.

  21. Clare says:

    It strikes me as strange that had the announcement been made that a candidate’s child (male or female) had engaged in premarital sexual relations, the reaction would have been — nothing.

    So it is the fact that a young person CHOSE not to kill the baby that is the issue.

    I thought liberals liked choice.

    It is a difficult circumstance for a young person (and his or her family) to shoulder this grown-up responsibility, without a completed education and financial stability, but it is not, as noted above, a disaster. The fault that led to the conception can be repented of, and atonement can be made. When the child is born, he or she will be a joy (not a punishment, as Senator Obama would have it).

  22. TomG says:

    Margaret and Clare:

    You both sound like my wife and daughter – and I’m so proud of them. Go, Sarah!

    Tom

  23. Veritas says:

    I’d prefer to dig a bit deeper to the more fundamental question of whether the State should even be in the business of teaching sex ed. Shouldn’t that be our Catholic response?

  24. Jane M says:

    Boy, Clare, you hit the nail on the head. I was trying to figure out how to say exactly that.

    Abortion is demanded by people who refuse to acknowledge that even with “great” birth control there will be babies because nature is hard to thwart. But if you can kill them once they are present then — no problem.

    A child from a great Catholic school around here became pregnant and had the baby. People were wondering how the school had gone so wrong. I finally had to point out that they couldn’t seriously believe that there’d been no misbehavior before. It’s just that finally there wasn’t an abortion. Maybe the school had done a *good* job. Interestingly, those I spoke to did agree once they thought about it.

  25. Veritas says:

    JM, I see that you raised the same question as I just did. Nice work!

  26. Houghton G. says:

    Sussex Catholic, there is a twisted logic to their thinking. They start with the axiom that teenagers will fornicate no matter what. Thus “abstinence education” is _necessarily_ bound to fail. People who favor abstinence education as an alternative to condom-distribution are fools.

    When the daughter of an abstinence-education advocate becomes pregnant, to these folks it proves their point–that even if teenagers pledge to remain abstinent until marriage, they are pledging what they _cannot_ deliver.

    Their premises are, of course, invalid. But given their premises, they do have a logical reason for what they do.

    Behind all of this is the dominance of behaviorist psychology: we are not human beings with true free choice but simply animals who obey their urges. For most of human history, one form of determinism or another has dominated. Christianity (and Judaism) were truly different in this regard, which is why the Church Fathers wrote and thought so much about human free will. With the Reformation and Enlightenment, determinism came back in various forms.

    Behaviorism–we are all Pavlovian dogs–is only the latest installment in the great Lie about determinism and free will. Some of its variants today is that “poverty makes people do crimes” or “guns kill people.”

    Once you plug that reality into the equation, you can at least understand why these sex-education, condom-loving Liberals hate Christians so much. We believe in free will and therefore, we believe that we are responsible for our own sins, indeed, we have the audacity to believe in Sin.

    Because we remind them of what they are trying their utmost to deny, they hate us viscerally.

  27. johnny says:

    I saw this last night too. As far as I’m concerned its a non-issue.

    On the front page of MSN the New York Times had the helpful article about the supposed lack of vetting by John McCain. Since when are they so concerned about the internal workings of the McCain campaign?

    Make no mistake, its all-out open warfare, and anything and everything is fair game. I’m guessing it will backfire.

  28. Manuel says:

    Anyone who uses this case against abstinence only ed is an idiot. Palin sends her daughter to public shcool and the father is also publicly educated. I do not the curriculum in Alaska but if it is anything like in the lower 48, then some type of sex ed is presented startnig in the 5th grade. This means they received sex ed, with perhaps some minor discussion of abstinence but largely contraceptive. If anything, this proves the opposite, that sex ed in public schools does not work.

  29. The reality:

    “Use” of abstinence leads to no pregnancy and no STD.

    “Use” of contraception leads to a reduced chance of pregnancy and STD, along with a host of other potential medical problems.

    But, pushing contraception stands to make Planned Parenthood and it indoctrinators rich.
    And when contraception fails, they’ll certainly steer women to the murderous money making abortionists.


    Based on the mentality of these people we should hand out guns with rubber bullets to gang members. There going to be violent anyway, so why not give out less harmful weapons.

  30. Joe R. says:

    Mr. Charles Williams, an excellent point.
    Put another way I think we should say:

    Teach your daughter abstinence and your teaching her to be responsible lady.

    Teach your daughter to use contraception and your teaching her to be a irresponsible whore.

    The same goes for teaching a son, ”mutatis mutandi”.

  31. CK says:

    At a time when “sex education” is everywhere, now even in pre-school, the culture saturated with irresponsible sex is purposely targeted directly to youth and is promoted, and kids who can’t remember where they put their homework are thrown contraceptives like candy as their ticket to nirvana, with abortion even dissing regular contraception as the ULTIMATE contraception after “experiencing” some form of pregnancy, the clueless remain clueless about just why there are so many “inconvenient” pregnancies! That sorta trumps the weak and gasping effort of the few attempts at abstinence education…and therefore, deserves the blame!

  32. mariadevotee says:

    Of all the candidates, and except for being Catholic, Sarah Palin is most like me. Wife, mother, faithful Christian/Catholic, sensible, practical, pro-life, joyful, straight shooter. I don’t want to run and don’t have the courage to have my past inspected. I am sorry that her daughter got pregnant unexpectedly, but every child is a blessing from God and He has a specific plan for this particular human person. It doesn’t change my good opinion of Palin one bit. This ticket still gets my vote.

  33. Garrett says:

    “It strikes me as strange that had the announcement been made that a candidate’s child (male or female) had engaged in premarital sexual relations, the reaction would have been—nothing.

    So it is the fact that a young person CHOSE not to kill the baby that is the issue.”

    I don’t think I agree, or, at least, I don’t think I understand what you’re saying. I think of the Palins had admitted that their daughter had engaged in premarital sexual relations, many would still use that to prove their point of “Abstinence doesn’t usually work and most teens don’t/can’t follow it.” The pregnancy, it seems, is just these people’s unmistakable proof that she engaged in premarital sex. Have I misundersood you, Clare? I fear I may have, so feel free to clear it up for me.

    *”Sussex Catholic, there is a twisted logic to their thinking. They start with the axiom that teenagers will fornicate no matter what. Thus “abstinence education” is necessarily bound to fail. People who favor abstinence education as an alternative to condom-distribution are fools.

    When the daughter of an abstinence-education advocate becomes pregnant, to these folks it proves their point—that even if teenagers pledge to remain abstinent until marriage, they are pledging what they cannot deliver.”*

    Houghton,

    I don’t think this is a fair caricature. I don’t think they start with the axiom “that teenagers will fornicate no matter what,” but rather assume “many modern American teens probably will have premarital sex, abstinence training or not, so at least we can minimize unwanted pregnancies with contraceptives.” Now, as a Catholic, I do not accept contraceptives OF COURSE, and do not believe the government should be preaching a contraceptive lifestyle to students, since it is gravely immoral. At the same time, I absolutely believe the statement “many modern American teens probably will have premarital sex, abstinence training or not” makes complete logical sense and is just plain true. Abstinence training doesn’t seem to work. Sex education supporting contraceptives is, to us Catholics, gravely immoral. So I suppose I just support the State staying out of it.

    But we do not need to prove our Catholic point of view by mischaracterizing and caricaturing alternate points of view. It’s not that all teenagers fornicate no matter what, it’s that many of them simply do.

    Abstinence works (duh!!)! Abstinence training by school systems seems not to work at all, at least if the statistics are to be believed.

  34. Anne says:

    Jane: *A child from a great Catholic school around here became pregnant and had the baby. People were wondering how the school had gone so wrong. I finally had to point out that they couldn’t seriously believe that there’d been no misbehavior before. It’s just that finally there wasn’t an abortion. Maybe the school had done a good job. Interestingly, those I spoke to did agree once they thought about it.*

    Great answer.

    Viator Catholicus — *And when contraception fails, they’ll certainly steer women to the murderous money making abortionists.*

    It’s got to the point that one has to wonder where contraception/abortion are going to eventually lead us. As CK says, they\’re using abortion as a form of contraception. This contempt for human life is very worrying. Health care is very expensive!

    FYI: Don’t let the media lead anyone to believe that the Catholic vote doesn’t count:

    \”In 2004, practicing Catholics were the decisive factor in many swing states. In Ohio, for instance, 65 percent of them voted for Bush, and in Florida President Bush\\\’s support from practicing Catholics reached 66 percent.
    http://www.nypost.com/seven/08262008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/catholic_joes_abortion_woe_126128.htm

    Vote McCain/Palin 2008

  35. Anne says:

    Garrett: *Abstinence training doesn’t seem to work. Sex education supporting contraceptives is*

    Garrett: *Abstinence works (duh Abstinence training by school systems seems not to work at all, at least if the statistics are to be believed.*

    I don’t know the stats. – could you provide some?

  36. johnny says:

    I agree, this only increases my resolve. But politics aside, this young woman and this family needs our prayers and support. No one deserves this sort of scrutiny.

  37. Anne says:

    Garrett: *But we do not need to prove our Catholic point of view by mischaracterizing and caricaturing alternate points of view.*

    Earlier this year, the US Catholic bishops advised: “As Catholics, we are not single-issue voters. . . Yet a candidate’s position on a single issue that involves an intrinsic evil, such as support for legal abortion or the promotion of racism, may legitimately lead a voter, to disqualify a candidate for receiving support.”

    Nothing to mischaracterize. It’s an intrinsic evil. I wonder what the stats are on people using abortion as a contraceptive?

  38. Fr W says:

    I guess that when a girl who RECEIVED sex education gets pregnant, we should conclude that it doesn’t work and scrap it? Should we pick out a young girl by name, a daughter any other famous person, who HAD sex education – and then hold them up as an example? Liberals are dumb and mean.

  39. Anne says:

    Fr Z: Lastly, the idea that one young girl who gets pregnant invalidates the concept of abstinence education simply because her mother advocates for it is patently absurd. Someone should remind CNN that the plural of anecdote is not data.*

    Unfortunately Father, people hear these soundbites and think because it’s coming from the MSM, they’ve checked the data before reporting. I don’t have the data myself and too busy at the moment to check but I think Garrett has them.

  40. Sawyer says:

    I’m in favor of advocating abstinence, but any of you who don’t realize what teachers, catechists, parents, priests and parish communities are up against in leading teenagers along the path of virtue ought to watch the movie “Superbad”. No other recent movie depicts as accurately the decadence and nihilism of contemporary teenage life in America.

  41. Houghton Grandmal says:

    Garrett,

    With respect, I don’t think I caricatured. I did not write that they start with the axiom that “_all_ teenagers will fornicate” but that “teenagers will fornicate”. They really do believe that. They really, really do believe that one cannot effectively bring teenagers _in general_ to live abstinently, even those teenagers who take the pledge, because teenagers’ hormones are just too strong and overcome teenagers “wills.” And behind that lies the behaviorist mentality–these people don’t really, really, truly believe in free will. I think I gave a fair description of the frame of reference from which they operate.

    Sussex Catholic’s question was why they don’t see that, if abstinence education were “used” it would result in abstinence and no pregnancy. He’s/She’s right, of course. But the hidden premise of the condom-crowd is that “using” abstinence is a priori impossible for most teenagers, hence to make it the weapon against teen pregnancy is futile. Because they do assume that even those who promise abstinence nearly always break their pledge, they are logical in their conclusion. That their premise that is flawed was my point.

    Perhaps you could see this as a friendly amendment. I think we are on the same page, if you were willing to absolve me of caricaturing our opponents.

    But it’s not

  42. mysticalrose says:

    Sawyer — right on. And this decadence is not only in the media but in the very homes of the youth of today. People’s parents are as morally loose (and in many cases much more so) as the average teenager. Kids totally want an image of pure life and none can be found. I think this is the real travesty. The advocates of sex education, and contraception, and abortion are foisting on the youth their own low moral standards.

  43. Scott W. says:

    With respect, I don’t think I caricatured. I did not write that they start with the axiom that “_all_ teenagers will fornicate” but that “teenagers will fornicate”.

    This whole who-is-characterizing-who kind of misses the larger point: In the modern liberal philosophy, fornication is good. That’s not characterization, that’s bald fact. And so every program they trot out is going to be based on that premise. It’s what Evan Sayet called the Cult of indiscriminateness (see here. Where good is evil, and evil is the victim of good.

  44. Michael J says:

    Garrett, and others who think that abstinence education simply does not work:

    I’d like to remind you that *all* are called to be chaste no matter their age or state in life and focusing on the pragmatic effects of this obligatory teaching is really a diservice. I personally think that the reported “failures” are fabricated, but even if true, it should never enter into the equation. Unless you think (and I know you do not because you are a Catholic) that fornication is not really a sin, arguing about the effectiveness of teaching morality in order to determine if morality should be taught at all is to fall into a trap.

  45. johnny says:

    AP reports the young father is going to join the family at the convention, and that he felt no pressure. For my part this puts an end to it. Best wishes to them and let’s hope we can move on now.

  46. Houghton Grandmal says:

    According to the New York Daily News article about the young man, Levi Johnston, he and Bristol Palin were already engaged in January 2008. Yet all sides are referring to him as her “boyfriend.” I do not understand why the official statement acknowledging the pregnancy on Monday did not at least mention that they had been engaged for 8 months or more. Instead, everyone has assumed that this was a “shotgun” decision to marry. Certainly one may wish to question the wisdom of an engagement by high school juniors, but still, it puts a different light on the whole situation to know that they had chosen to marry _before_ they conceived a child. One can wish they had abstained, but the whole situation is not quite what most of us have imagined and I don’t understand why we were not given this fuller picture–discreetly and minimally–yesterday.

  47. Kradcliffe says:

    I think it’s weird that so many people think that “education” will solve the problem. I think that the vast majority of women who get “knocked up” know exactly how babies are made and how pregnancy can be prevented.

  48. John Enright says:

    Deusdonat: Believe me, I wasn’t taking a shot at you; I was just expressing my opinion that abstinence DOES work whether the liberal establishment likes it or not. That’s why there wasn’t any quote. I’m sorry if I wasn’t clear that I wasn’t confronting you. I thought that I was offering support. Mea culpa.

  49. Jennifer L. says:

    Clare: It is a difficult circumstance for a young person (and his or her family) to shoulder this grown-up responsibility, without a completed education and financial stability, but it is not, as noted above, a disaster. The fault that led to the conception can be repented of, and atonement can be made. When the child is born, he or she will be a joy (not a punishment, as Senator Obama would have it).

    Charles Williams: It is not a disaster when a teenage girl gets pregnant. It is a moral catastrophe when a teenage girl consciously and deliberately adopts a promiscuous, contraceptive lifestyle.

    Exactly. And when they deliberately adopt that promiscuous and contraceptive lifestyle and still get pregnant, then it results in an abortion becuase the mindset of “we should be able to have sex without consequences” is there. And, the other side of this is….if this “scandal” happened to the child of a democrat, we would never hear about it becuase they would get rid of “the punishment” (related to Obama’s quote that if his children made a mistake he wouldn’t want them to be “punished.”

    It’s just sick and sad. They just don’t get it.

  50. anon says:

    Let us not forget that contraceptives in the form of birth control are no different than abortion.

    http://www.prolife.com/BIRTHCNT.html

  51. Brian says:

    abstinence education is supposed to prevent pre-marital sex
    people have pre-marital sex
    therefore we should do away with abstinence education

    laws are supposed to prevent crime
    people engage in crime
    therefore we should do away with laws

    the golden rule is supposed to support compassionate behavior
    people act selfishly
    therefore we should do away with the golden rule

    education is supposed to develop rational thought
    some people are dumb as a rock
    therefore we should do away with education

  52. Anne says:

    Fr W: I guess that when a girl who RECEIVED sex education gets pregnant, we should conclude that it doesn’t work and scrap it? Should we pick out a young girl by name, a daughter any other famous person, who HAD sex education – and then hold them up as an example?
    Liberals are dumb and mean.

    You make too much sense Father.

  53. anon says:

    Brian,
    Very well said. When carried out abstinence does indeed work.

    If you don’t have sex you won’t get pregnant
    If you don’t have sex you won’t get an std

    The reason we see inconsistent results is because of the fact that even when abstinence is taught it doesn’t guarantee that teens won’t engage in sex.

  54. Charles R. Williams says:

    What strikes me here is the horror that so many people have over an unwed pregnancy in a 17 year old girl. Sure there is embarrassment. But a 17 year-old girl is biologically ready to have a child. What are the costs to the girl? Perhaps, a 6-12 month delay in her education plans. The heavy responsibilities of raising a child, etc. But there are offsetting blessings. And there is always the possibility of placing a child for adoption with one of the millions of couples waiting for a baby. And in this case the couple have a lot of support from at least one and probably both of the families involved.

    A girl and her boyfriend foolishly let things go too far and there is a baby. Well, they’re gonna grow up real fast. They are not the first and they won’t be the last.

    This is a catastrophe? This justifies assuming that all teenagers will screw around, giving them the means to do so with (apparent) impunity, and conveying the message that all they have to worry about is a baby?

  55. Anne says:

    Sarah Palin, Hockey Mom

    McCain aides whose judgment I trust are impressed by Sarah Palin. One was particularly amused by this exchange: A nervous young McCain staffer took it upon himself to explain to Palin the facts of life in a national campaign, the intense scrutiny she’d be under from the media, the viciousness of the assault that she’d be facing, etc.:

    Palin: “Thanks for the warning. By the way, do you know what they say the difference is between a hockey mom and a Pit Bull?”

    McCain aide: “No, Governor.”

    Palin: “A hockey mom wears lipstick.”
    http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2008/09/kristol_on_sarah_palin_hockey.asp

    An excellent insight into Sarah Palin. :)

    I just heard some Alaskian Democrats on the radio saying they’re circling the bandwagon for one of their own.

  56. Anne says:

    Charles R. Williams: What strikes me here is the horror that so many people have over an unwed pregnancy in a 17 year old girl. Sure there is embarrassment. But a 17 year-old girl is biologically ready to have a child.*

    There are 6y/o getting married every day in the ME. Yesterday I read where 5 young 10y/o’s refused to marry some old guys and they’re going to be buried alive. I could show you where this story was posted on DU so you could see the responses but most of you know already.

  57. John Enright says:

    anon said “The reason we see inconsistent results is because of the fact that even when abstinence is taught it doesn’t guarantee that teens won’t engage in sex.” Yes, but that doesn’t invalidate the message. We also say “Don’t rob convenience stores” but that, in itself, won’t stop robberies. When coupled with a message showing the results of engaging in certain conduct, the message may well be delivered home. “Don’t rob convenience stores” coupled with the message that the robber will go to prison for a long time should have an impact on some people.

  58. Peg says:

    I really think that abstinence training has to be backed up with careful supervision. A few generations ago young couples were not left alone for any length of time. Young people can be taught all about abstinence and agree 100%,but they don’t always realize how quickly things can get out of control. Those raging hormones. Our children have way too much freedom. We want to trust them but there is that old devil and the effects of original sin.

  59. CK says:

    This slash and burn attack on Palin in any way possible and personal, in order to destroy her and wound her personally should not come as a surprise from those who would back a man so bereft of human compassion that he doesn’t mind leaving a little most vulnerable child to die alone in filth. Such people have no heart and would do anything in their developed viciousness. Remember these times of hearts grown cold with evil being called good and good evil were prophesied. We just happen to be experiencing them now…and sides are being clearly chosen without doubt.

  60. Jordanes says:

    Charles R. Williams said: This is a catastrophe? This justifies assuming that all teenagers will screw around, giving them the means to do so with (apparent) impunity, and conveying the message that all they have to worry about is a baby?

    The purpose for “sex education” in schools is to encourage young people to have sex, but to never allow sex to be used for its primary end, procreation. The reason the leftists abhor “abstinence” is not because teens might have sex — no, there’s nothing wrong with that — but because if you don’t teach them how to contracept, they’ll have babies, and the sex-ed crowd are mortified that anyone might actually procreate instead of just using sex as personal entertainment.

    And no, I don’t mean that literally, and yes, I intentionally chose the broad brush — but I do think that points at the motives and energy that power the engine of sex-ed.

  61. newscaper says:

    It mostly seems to be the same with liberals on the ‘social’ issues — what starts out as a [sometimes] legitimate argument for tolerance or a loosening up (as far as the law or govt policy is concerned) is twisted into actively promoting the practice, particularly in using lib control of the public schools to indoctrinate the next generation.

    Support and compassion for teens wrestling with homosexuality turns into “come on in, the water’s fine, you’re one of us now.”

    Providing students with basic information on how their bodies work (and get pregnant… or sick) so they won’t take risks in ignorance turns into “how to have sex” (while trying to make every conceivable variation “normal”).

    Basic info on contraception (how they do work,and how they don’t) turns into “Here’s some condoms and have at it like rabbits.”

    “That which is not forbidden is compulsory.”

    Some of the criticisms of ‘abstinence’ programs focus on the number of students who fail in their pledges, for example, IIRC, that by 2 years later X% of high school students who took pledges had had sex. I’m sorry, but I consider a significant number of high school freshmen waiting until they’re 2 or 3 ears more mature to actually be, in this day and age, *progress*.