Oh me-o O my-o, Toledo TLM

Posted on 25 March 2009 by Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

His Excellency, the Most Reverend Leonard Blair, Bishop of Toledo, visited St. Joseph’s Church in Toledo and presided at the Extraordinary Form of the Mass on February 22nd, 2009.

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29 Responses to Oh me-o O my-o, Toledo TLM

Byzshawn says:

25 March 2009 at 9:57 am

As a former employee of a certain Shrine in the diocese of Toledo, I am stunned! Ecstatic, but stunned. I pray that this spreads through the whole diocese.
Laura Lowder says:

25 March 2009 at 10:11 am

That is beautiful. How wonderful that the Bishop presided.
Fr. Deacon Daniel says:

25 March 2009 at 10:14 am

Really, truly beautiful. Thanks for posting them! What an edifying trend!
Veritas says:

25 March 2009 at 10:23 am

What an absolutely stunning church. All: take time to appreciate these photos and thank our ancestors for the beautiful heritage they’ve left us.
Roland de Chanson says:

25 March 2009 at 10:26 am

Laudetur Deus. Vera Missa! Et speciem ablata novi ordinis mensa multo pulchriorem fert sanctuarium.

Later supra laterem assidue iaciatur!
Chris says:

25 March 2009 at 10:27 am

This is also, keep in mind, the same bishops who hasn’t allowed a weekly TLM for years.

The only consistent traditional Mass in the are, unfortunately, is from the CMRI.
Roland de Chanson says:

25 March 2009 at 10:27 am

Oops – translation got cut.

God be praised. A True Mass. The sanctuary looks much more beautiful without the novus ordo table.

Keep piling brick on brick!
Collegeville reject says:

25 March 2009 at 10:38 am

The most beautiful thing this side of heaven – the TLM. No words are possible.
Maureen says:

25 March 2009 at 10:49 am

People can change their minds. Even bishops.
Chris says:

25 March 2009 at 10:53 am

Yes, they can change their minds. Let’s hope he changes his policy as well and actually obeys the Holy Father and complies with Summorum Pontificum.
Trevor says:

25 March 2009 at 10:54 am

Chris,

I don’t know where you’re getting your info. Perhaps it was different with Bishop Hoffman, but ever since Bishop Blair has been here (since 2003), he’s been willing to give the indults to celebrate the TLM. I personally know of one priest who expressed interest, and was given an indult.

I agree that there’s a dearth of TLMs, but I think that might be due to lack of priests willing to say the Mass, rather than the bishop’s obstinancy in the pre-SP days.

And I’m so bummed I missed it…
Brother Juniper says:

25 March 2009 at 11:01 am

The fruits of Summorum Pontificum are here to stay! It seems
to me that the spread of the Gregorian Mass cannot be stopped
anymore. It’s been popping up all over the Catholic world
for the last two years. God willing, the reform of the reform
will continue for the forseeable future.
Chris says:

25 March 2009 at 11:05 am

Trevor, what is the weekly/daily TLM schedule in Toledo?

I have not found one outside a sedevacantist chapel.
thetimman says:

25 March 2009 at 11:12 am

From St. Louis:

Hmmmm.

Hmmmmmmmmm…………..

Keep an eye on the Bolletino?
Dave says:

25 March 2009 at 11:22 am

I have personally spoken with Bishop Blair about the Extraordinary Form several times. Please be assured that he is fully on board with Summorum Pontificum, and although he will probably never celebrate the TLM himself, he is not attempting to suppress it in any way. He acknowledges the growing interest among young people, including priests and seminarians, and is willing to help make the EF more available if people request it. (Pretty much everyone who wants it is already going to St. Joseph’s, though.)

I had the privilege of attending this particular Mass and receiving Holy Communion from the bishop. It was quite a moving and memorable experience.

(By the way, lest there be any confusion over the word “presided,” the Mass was celebrated by the pastor, Fr. Joseph Poggemeyer, not by the bishop. Bishop Blair preached the homily, distributed Communion, and gave the final blessing.)
Vincent says:

25 March 2009 at 11:44 am

I am very glad to see this. Two questions:

It appears there are two censors in use. What are the conditions under which this is allowed? Is it because the local ordinary is there in choir?

Second, when is it that a bishop wears a cope or not while assisting at Mass in choir? Is it permissible only for the local ordinary?

Not trying to offer criticism, just always looking for an opportunity to learn more. Thanks!
Peter says:

25 March 2009 at 11:51 am

Very nice. I also have a question:

Should the deacons be wearing stoles during the consecration?

I’m not a fan of the see-thru surplices.

But it looks great in general!
Vincent says:

25 March 2009 at 11:52 am

Chris: You ought to check out this parish’s website (www.stjosephstoledo.com). They have information posted there on when the TLM is celebrated.

Also, I have just noticed that this parish appears to have two permanent deacons who are assisting in choir next to His Excellency. Recalling the discussions that have taken place here about permanent deacons’ place in the Usus Antiquior, I hope for the edification of the people of this worthy parish they might learn the parts for the Deacon and Subdeacon so that these people can have Solemn Mass. Wouldn’t that be excellent!
fr.franklyn mcafee says:

25 March 2009 at 12:23 pm

The deacons should not be wearing stoles except when they receive or distribute communion.But this is a flow over from the OF .Even in the OF permanent or transitional deacons when in choir wear cassock and surplice (No stole).Today you have the odd sight of permanent deacons ,when in choir wearing albs and stoles but transitional deacons and priests wearing surplice and cassock.Awhile ago at a celebration of vespers at ourcathedral the MC told both deacons and priests to take off their stoles.They are not worn even by the officiant.The stole has lost it meaning due to unauthorized use.
Brian J says:

25 March 2009 at 12:42 pm

Vincent-

The parish only has one permanent deacon. The two deacons in the photo are from the Cathedral and came with the Bishop. It WOULD be fantastic to have another deacon (or sub-deacon) but alas, we are just grateful for what we do have, namely, the TLM twice a week (Thursday evenings and Sunday mornings).
Fr. John Zuhlsdorf says:

25 March 2009 at 1:27 pm

The clergy who are present in choir do not wear stoles unless and until they are to receive Holy Communion.

They would not generally wear stoles at the consecration.
Lady Lauren says:

25 March 2009 at 1:40 pm

Roland,

St. Joseph’s never had a table altar–the high altar is the only one that has ever been used. It was listed as a “dying” parish for many years before Fr. Stephen Majoros, who brought the TLM to the parish, and thus escaped wreckovation. Fr. Majoros did paint the wall behind the altar red, however, which I still haven’t become used to . . .

Chris,

Fr. Joseph Poggemeyer has only been pastor for a little over a year now (someone correct me if I have lost track of time), and it is under his pastorship that the every-other Sunday Mass in the Extraordinary form has been changed to every Sunday. There has been a weekly Thursday evening TLM at the parish for years (a decade?), that was granted under indult by Bishop Hoffman.

I attended Mass here as a child & teen, and my family are still parishioners.
Jayna says:

25 March 2009 at 1:42 pm

Now that’s what I call an altar.

I have a question about something I’ve always wondered whenever I see it. Why does the back of the priest celebrant’s chasuble get lifted up at the elevation? Is that simply a practical thing so that his arms are unencumbered? I ask because with Roman chasubles it doesn’t seem like that would be a problem.
DCS says:

25 March 2009 at 1:48 pm

Hee! I was married in this church! When I return to Toledo I always attend the EF at St. Joseph’s. If you want to know more check out: http://www.stjosephstoledo.com/
Jordanes says:

25 March 2009 at 1:51 pm

Jayna, I think it’s because in the past the chasuble was a pretty heavy garment. The gesture was retained even after they started making them lighter.
Berthold says:

25 March 2009 at 2:50 pm

I am a bit surprised about the word ‘presided’. I know that it is used in some Novus Ordo rubrics, but has its use a tradition in the church? In my eyes it sounds a bit like the unfortunate concept of the Mass as being primarily a ‘gathering’. Wouldn’t ‘assisting in choir’ or so be the more appropriate phrase. But this is just a little detail.
Berthold says:

25 March 2009 at 2:51 pm

I am a bit surprised about the word ‘presided’. I know that it is used in some Novus Ordo rubrics, but has its use a tradition in the church? In my eyes it sounds a bit like the unfortunate concept of the Mass as being primarily a ‘gathering’. Wouldn’t ‘assisting in choir’ or so be the more appropriate phrase? But this is just a little detail.
Susan Peterson says:

25 March 2009 at 3:15 pm

It is wonderful to see these pictures of the EF in such a beautiful church. In Binghamton NY, the one priest who says the EF (for the former indult community) was transferred as pastor from a church which still had a high altar behind the table altar, and an altar rail, to an extremely modern church with no high altar and no altar rail.

Still, we have the EF there, and people kneel for communion without an altar rail, except some few who cannot get up once they kneel without a rail to help them. (I struggle a bit myself) but still manage. ) One can have the EF in any church. Still, it is beautiful to see it in one like this.
It reminds me of St. Mary’s Annapolis where I was received into the church, which also had the white reredos with statues in it.

I really didn’t realize, when I became a Catholic in 1972, how recent the change was, or that most of the priests there (there were 11 priests there then, mostly semiretired) had spent most of their lives saying a different mass than the one I first learned.

Susan Peterson
Manrique Zabala de Arízona says:

26 March 2009 at 4:09 am

I wish the OLD Toledo in Spain has such beautiful masses that often ;)