Moscow …. wait for it… TLM…. !

Our friends at Rorate have the news… which I read twice to be sure…

The next ‘approved’ Traditional Latin Mass will be on May 31 (Pentecost), but usually it is offered every 1st Sunday of the month, at 1700 H (5:00 P.M.) in the basement chapel of the Cathedral (of the Immaculate Conception, Moscow).

The priest who offers the Mass is Fr. Augustyn Dziedziel SDB. Catholic guests of Moscow are most welcome. (Father also speaks some English in addition to Polish and Russian, so confessions are possible before Mass.)

 

I think Satan might particularly hate this one.

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26 Responses to Moscow …. wait for it… TLM…. !

  1. Mitchell NY says:

    I hope someone can post something in regards to how well it is attended and received….I pray it flourishes….

  2. Mark says:

    Why would Satan hate it? It makes present a Rite that really has no business in Russia, and could hurt ecumenism given the touchiness of the RO. I know the Orthodox prefer tradition, but I doubt they’d find anything fun about the Roman Rite on Russian soil!

  3. Eugene Lavrenchuk says:

    This is great news indeed. The previous Archbishop was an enemy of Tradition.

  4. LCB says:

    Mark,

    The RO have made clear that liturgical reform in the west is an essential part to improved Moscow-Roma relations.

    And what of the many Westerners that live in Moscow? Surely it is proper for them to attend their own Rite?

  5. Thomas says:

    I would think that the TLM would be particularly welcomed among Latin Rite Catholics in predominantly Orthodox countries.

    Am I correct in my assumption? Does anyone know?

  6. nw says:

    LCB, and not to mention all the RO in Western Europe…

  7. Mark says:

    I’m just saying I’d be careful. Tradition helps ecumenism with the Orthodox. The Roman Rite in Russia…not so much. You never know how Russians are going to react to things like this. Perhaps even though they prefer the TLM to the Novus Ordo in general, in Russia they’d prefer the Novus Ordo because it would be in Russian and not “foreign” Latin language! You can never be sure with them. They seem wary of the fact that there are any Catholic churches in Russia at all, let alone doing things in Latin.

    Expatriate communities are indeed a valid reason for having Roman Rite churches in other geographical patriarchates, but you know very well that most of those churches are not serving expatriates. There are Latin hierarchies all over Eastern Europe, India, the Middle East, etc…which have their own Rites. Missionaries should have the consideration to learn the people’s local rites. Liturgical Colonialism and Imperialism is one of the Latin Rite’s greatest shames.

  8. The Feds says:

    Mark,

    Sorry if it seems you’re being ganged up on, but there are Russian Orthodox churches in Rome, so why should Roman Catholics walk on eggshells regarding RC Churches in Moscow. What’s good for the goose…?

  9. Mark says:

    Well, the fact that they get all upset about us on their “turf” whereas we never say anything about them on ours can be taken two ways:

    Either, A) we’re the more “adult” ones about the whole issue and they’re hypocrites…or, B) they really care about their religion and believe in its exclusivist claims, whereas we have “blinked,” as it were, about ours…

  10. Victor says:

    Mark,
    While the Russian Orthodox are not particularly happy with Roman Catholic liturgies celebrated on the “holy russian soil”, I have a strong feeling that they will dislike the older form less. When I visit a byzantine liturgy, I always find it very striking how much it reminds me of the older form of our own liturgy.

    Anyway, it is my experience that Russian Orthodox like to complain – and a good part of their argumentation against the Roman rite in Russia has more to do with nationalism and ideology than ecclesiology. As has been mentioned before, why exactly should a Roman catholic liturgy in Moscow be such a terrible thing, when the Russians have their own church in Rome, of all places (not to mention the many bishops in Western Europe)?

  11. Michael says:

    Instead of promoting the TLM in Moscow, Catholics should be doing more to help the Russian Greek Catholic community of Fr. Andrey Udovenko (Moscow Patriarchate convert to Catholicism) grow which the KGB will still not allow to have a church building, so they must say Divine Liturgy in the chapel of the Missionaries of Charity.

    You can read about Fr Andrey’s community here:
    http://russiancatholic.blogspot.com/2009/04/russian-orthodox-community-in-communion.html

    Vatican ecumenists would like to see communities like this go away since they believe people can be equally saved in the schismatic so-called “sister churches”.

  12. Maureen says:

    The point is that in Russia, where religion has been subject to oppressive state control and prohibition under the Soviet Union and other regimes, there is enough religious freedom that the OF and EF can both be celebrated. This is especially gratifying to us and not to the Devil, as for many years the EF was mostly celebrated in the USSR in prison cells.

  13. Michael says:

    The Russian Rite tradition of the Catholic Church is the only hope for converting Russia.

    “For an Orthodox priest to become a Catholic takes about two minutes”
    Fr. Chrysostom Frank (Orthodox priest convert to Catholicism”

    You may also be interested to read about Fr. Sergei Golovanov, Russian Greek Catholic priest in Siberia who is a convert also.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Golovanov

  14. AuroraChristina says:

    Rejoicing!!!

  15. Muscovite says:

    Moscow, Russia? Bummer. When I read the headline, I thought it must be Moscow, Idaho (don’t laugh–I live here and hope springs eternal).

  16. Biff says:

    Can the Consecration of Russia be far off?

    SSPX: Keep the rosaries coming!

  17. Denis Crnkovic says:

    The history of Roman Catholicism in Russia is long, longer than most people in the West realize. Readers will recall that large numbers of Catholic Poles and Lithuanians were subjects of the Tsar from the 17th to the 20th century. This centuries-long political situation had consequences for the presence of Catholics in the Imperial capital of St Petersburg and in the ancient spiritual center at Moscow. Moreover, many Catholics migrated across Russia, often as forced labourers and political prisoners in Siberia. Not insignificant numbers of these internal exiles found there way as far east as Vladivostok. All of these groups brought the Latin Mass and the Roman rites along with them. Their traditions as Catholics have been enduring. Indeed, one of the growing RC communities in Russia today is in Vladivostok itself (where there was an outpost branch of the Knights of Columbus just after World War I). While no one is claimimg that there are large numbers of RCs in Russia today, no one can deny their longstanding presence there. To opine that the so-called tridentine Rite has “no business” in Russia shows a lamentable ignorance of the history and culture of the region and of Russia’s traditional acceptance (or at least tolerance) of the Roman rites on her soil. This forum is not an appropriate place for a lengthy discours on the history of the Roman Church in Russia. But some of the comments here have sadly confirmed my experiences of the past 30 years as a Russian scholar: many Westerners have as much understanding of Russia as the Italian editors of L’Osservatore Romano have of America.

  18. Mark VA says:

    Denis:

    Your post hits the nail on the head. Concerns about Russian reaction to the TLM are misplaced, but as you noted, they may be understandable since this is terra incognita to most Catholics.

    Below is a link showing Father Dziendziel:

    http://nowyruchliturgiczny.blogspot.com/

  19. Oleg-Michael says:

    It’s definitely not the KGB who don’t allow Fr. Andrei Udovenko to build a chapel of his own. It simply, plainly, and quite expectedly the lack of money. There are dedicated Byzantine Catholic chapels and churches in other parts of Russia, though.

    And, of course, Roman Rite is universal and thus has every right to be present everywhere (of course, in its traditional form no less than in the new one). BTW, the percent of practicing Eastern Catholics in Russia is very small, even though many – perhaps most – Russian Catholics are converts from ROC and thus canonically belong to Byzantine rite. Almost all of them, however, practice Roman Rite.

    And you know what? Screw ecumenism. Ecumenism, in our daily life, means that an official from Vatican or an Italian bishop comes to Russia, gives ROC another portion of holy relics and a good deal of money, and discusses cordially how to eliminate us, Russian Catholics.

  20. B Knotts says:

    Muscovite,

    I admit to wondering the same thing. :-)

  21. berenike says:

    “Father also speaks some English in addition to Polish and Russian, so confessions are possible before Mass.”

    ? Because he speaks English, confessions are possible before Mass?

    Russian and Polish confessions are only possible before Mass?

    :-)

  22. berenike says:

    that last sentence should have “after”, not “before”, of course.

  23. Mattk says:

    Eat your heart out Rasputin!!!

  24. craig says:

    There is an attractive Catholic church called St. Louis (??????? ????????) in Central Moscow, built 100 or so years ago by French expatriates, that has an 08:00 OF mass in Latin every Sunday. (Readings and homily are in Russian.)

    Oddly enough, those are the only Latin masses I have ever attended.

  25. István says:

    “Why would Satan hate it? It makes present a Rite that really has no business in Russia, and could hurt ecumenism given the touchiness of the RO. I know the Orthodox prefer tradition, but I doubt they’d find anything fun about the Roman Rite on Russian soil!”

    Well then, the Czars and later commissars should not have allowed all of those Poles to be deported to, and Germans allowed to immigrate to Russia!

  26. Oleg-Michael says:

    Confessions are available before Mass in every language, but since this annoucement was first of all intended for foreign guests, I emphasized Fr. Augustyn’s knowledge of English.

    There is no controversy between TLM and Eastern rites. In fact, the only two priests who assisted at TLM in Moscow (still before Summorum Pontificum, when we only had occasional visits by FSSP priests) were both Greek-Catholic.