The fruits of excommunication

From the site of Chicago Public Radio via Sancte Pater, to whom I tip my biretta.   o{]:¬)

Catholic Church Denies Female Priest a Catholic Burial

A woman who challenged a Catholic ordination ban has died. ["Ban" is the wrong word.  "Ban" implies that somehow the situation could be changed.  Just stop "banning".  Impossible.] The Catholic church will not allow her to be buried at a Catholic parish.

Janine Denomme was [not] ordained a priest in April by a group called Roman ["]Catholic["] Womenpriests. She had been battling cancer and yesterday she died in her Edgewater home. [RIP]

The Catholic church never recognized Denomme’s ordination. [That's because it didn't occur.] The Archdiocese of Chicago says Denomme automatically separated herself from the Church when she participated in "the simulation of the sacrament of Holy Orders." The diocese says she knowingly and willingly participated in the simulation and brought excommunication upon herself. And because of that Denomme is denied a Catholic funeral. The Archdiocese says Denomme would only be allowed a Church burial if she gave "some sign of repentance before death."

Denomme’s funeral mass will be held at First United Methodist Church in Evanston.

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64 Responses to The fruits of excommunication

  1. Bill in Texas says:

    Shouldn’t that last line read:

    “Denomme’s funeral mass [NOT] will be held at First United Methodist Church in Evanston.”

  2. Henry Edwards says:

    Denomme’s funeral mass will be held at First United Methodist Church in Evanston.

    Mass was not celebrated at the United Methodist church that I attended before my conversion over a half-century ago.

    I was not aware that ecumenism had succeeded to this extent.

  3. TravelerWithChrist says:

    Another way they try to push their agenda through. She was already sick before she was “ordained”, knowing she’d die soon. Then she thought, I presume, she’d get a priest’s burial, the first ‘womanpriest’. Very sick.

    Does anyone know if these women go through any training? Priests spend what, 6 years in seminary and such before ordination.

  4. JohnE says:

    I suppose as in yesterday’s “A tale of two Archdioceses” post, some will say the Church is cherry-picking the woman-priest issue in order to deny someone a Catholic funeral, and that this public display puts the Church in a very negative light. Perhaps we’ll hear of a touching but irrelevant story about how this woman stayed up all night with a sick person at the local hospital.

  5. TJerome says:

    I’m not sure why she would want to be buried in a Catholic Church since she repudiated the Church by her actions.

  6. rakesvines says:

    I welcome the honest and consistent implementation of Church discipline by the bishop in Chicago. What I notice with the recent excommunications or recognition thereof is that they’re done on small fishes. Correct me if I’m wrong, but pro-abortion politicians are also excommunicated automatically. But why was the late Ted Kennedy’s wake solemnized by a prince of the Church, Card. Sean O’Malley? Why is Pelosi free to receive Holy Communion anywhere she pleases? Is the Church afraid of these powerful people? Or does money talk – even among God’s people?

  7. RichR says:

    Posts like this may seem nit-picky or overly-sensitive to outsiders, but it is the subtle art of wordplay that the MSM employs in these stories that demands a rebuttal as Fr. Z. has done.

    Kudos, Fr. Z.

  8. JamesA says:

    This poor woman labored under such a weight of ignorance and self-delusion. May God have mercy on her. Requiescat in pace.

  9. TJerome says:

    rakesvines, legitimate questions. I lost all respect (and interest) in Cardinal O’Malley after watching the Kennedylalapalooza he “presided” over. What a wimp.

  10. irishgirl says:

    God have mercy on this woman’s soul.

  11. Katie says:

    Thanks James for offering a kind word. Now can someone please explain Senator Kennedy’s requiem mass? This poor woman was as James said, deluded. Was this true of Kennedy? Is it only money and power which makes the diff? And since we’re talking Chicago, what about the PP of S.Sabina’s?

  12. michelelyl says:

    Kennedy received the Sacrament of Reconciliation before he died. Although we don’t know what his confession entailed, apparently it was enough for Cardinal O’Malley. Kennedy also apologized to his first wife (the marriage was annulled on the grounds that Kennedy never intended in his consent to be faithful to his vows) before his death.

  13. SimonDodd says:

    “Denomme [pretended to be] ordained a priest in April … and yesterday [God responded].” Fixed.

  14. rakesvines says:

    I blogged about this. To provide access to the comments (for balance), I linked to this page at http://divine-ripples.blogspot.com/2010/05/another-excommunication-implemented.html

    @michelelyl: That may provide cover for Card. O’Malley although Kennedy’s death bed letter to the Pope shows no remorse whatsoever about his lifetime support for abortion. In fact, his mindset was that of justification. And as St. John Bosco teaches, “A tree falls wherever it leans to.” But granted that he repented, he still received Communion all his life despite his abortion support and invalid marital state. Excommunication precluded that access. So, his bishop is still not off the hook.

  15. nzcatholic says:

    May she rest in peace

  16. ambrose says:

    NOT all people like this are just ignorant, some are actually evil.
    I am not making any judgments in this case, but we should not fall into the trap of believing that BAD people are really just ignorant. THEY ARE BAD PEOPLE!!

  17. robtbrown says:

    Kennedy received the Sacrament of Reconciliation before he died. Although we don’t know what his confession entailed, apparently it was enough for Cardinal O’Malley.

    We have a different situation with Kennedy. He was a very public figure, who very publicly and obstinately supported abortion. In so far as his funeral mass was public, I think it would have been appropriate that a death bed disavowal of his pro abortion position be made public before he was given a Catholic funeral.

    Kennedy also apologized to his first wife

    ???????

    (the marriage was annulled on the grounds that Kennedy never intended in his consent to be faithful to his vows) before his death.
    Comment by michelelyl

  18. Joshua08 says:

    rakesvines, you are hereby corrected.

    Canon law first does not have “automatic excommunication” as such. It is a little more complicated. Second, latae sententiae excommunication applies whenever someone formally cooperates in the procurement of a completed abortion, subject to the usual conditions. Can. 1329 §2 might be argued to extend this to those whose help was immediate and material, but I think that Can. 1329 is only talking within the context of ferendæ sententiæ excommunications/.

    It may be possible to argue that he falls under

    Can. 1184 §1 Church funeral rites are to be denied to the following, unless they gave some signs of repentance before death:

    1° notorious apostates, heretics and schismatics;

    2° those who for anti-christian motives chose that their bodies be cremated;

    3° other manifest sinners to whom a Church funeral could not be granted without public scandal to the faithful.

    But that is not excommunication

  19. rakesvines says:

    @Joshua08. I modified my post accordingly. Thanks.

  20. j says:

    The usual. Except – does anyone know where she “served as a lay preacher, church musician, parish council member, spiritual director and religion teacher”?

    http://www.romancatholicwomenpriests.org/ordained.htm#denomme

    Janine Denomme
    Janine and her partner Nancy live in Chicago and until recently, she worked as the Director of the Youth Program at the LGBT community center in this city. Prior to that, Janine taught American History at DePaul University, taught high school theology, worked with women who were homeless and did grant writing for a number of nonprofit organizations. Janine also has a small spiritual direction practice. Involved in liturgy since adolescence as a singer and musician, Janine enjoys creating and sharing sacred rituals and looks forward to celebrating the sacraments as a priest janine.denomme@sbcglobal.net

    http://www.windycitymediagroup.com/gay/lesbian/news/ARTICLE.php?AID=26588

    Ordained priest Janine Denomme dies
    News update From a Press Release Monday, May 17, 2010

    Janine Denomme, a committed Catholic who put her faith on the line at the end of her life by challenging the Church’s ban on ordaining women, died May 17 at her home in Edgewater. The cause was cancer, according to her partner, Hon. Judge Nancy Katz.

    Denomme, 45, was director of youth programs for the Center on Halsted and an active Catholic who served as a lay preacher, church musician, parish council member, spiritual director and religion teacher. In 2007, she learned about Roman Catholic Women Priests ( RCWP ) which, despite the official ban, has ordained over 100 women worldwide. She was ordained in April of this year.

  21. William Tighe says:

    “Janine and her partner Nancy …”

    Yes, well, what would you expect. Not only “birds of a feather …,” but also perverts.

  22. AnAmericanMother says:

    “Janine and her partner Nancy …”

    Sheesh. Life imitates art (or at least the Church Sign Apologetics).

  23. John 6:54 says:

    Twice now in two days I’ve seen the words “…and brought excommunication upon herself…” I think the Church needs to push these words where it applies. As people bring it upon themselves.

  24. As an old priest I used to know once said, a horse has a better chance of being ordained a priest than a woman does.

  25. JonM says:

    @ John,

    True enough, but I think that RakesVines brings up an important point in that small fries are, when the time comes, finally punished but sharks go on unabated (apologies to the Selachimorphaian community, none of whom are sinners.)

    I’ll start believing there really is a sea change when certain ‘conservative’ metropolitans actually enforce Church law and dogma by appropriately treating the Eucharist. Quickly followed by a reminder with real teeth that the Faith necessarily is intertwined with our daily life (e.g., job, political perspectives, television watching, etc.), then will I have more confidence in a comprehensive approach to ending ecclesial chaos.

    Another piece to this. It is fine to drive home the point that people excommunicate themselves in a formal sense for some actions, but really any serious sin causes a break with God.

    Furthermore, relying on unrepentant apostates to excommunicate themselves is foolish and uncharitable (goad people into driving themselves off a cliff?!) That is why formal excommunications were used; they shock the excommunicate and send the message to everyone else that the disposition of the subject is BAD.

  26. MichaelJ says:

    Joshua08,

    Is anyone ever excommunicated latae sententiae under Canon Law, or does Canon law merely identify some , but not all, of the conditions under which this may have occurred?

  27. This is very sad. Certainly, let’s pray for the poor deluded woman.

    Re: “funeral Mass” at Methodist church

    I believe the implication is that her fellow “priests” will “celebrate” a funeral “Mass”, using the Methodist place but not having the service run by a Methodist minister. Sigh. An openly Protestant funeral would be better than this.

  28. Yes, we should pray for this woman and all others, deluded or actually evil. That being said, this story brings up (yet another) media problem. Namely, the fundamental equality displayed towards any group wearing the “Catholic” label. In this view anybody’s Catholic who claims to be so, hence “women priests” and a “funeral mass” celebrated at the local Methodist church. (btw, that was probably the most Christian thing celebrated at a UMC recently…ha ha.) They say they’re Catholic, the official group disagrees and “bans” them, so there’s a story.

    When you try to explain the Church’s position on ordination (or, let’s face it, just about anything else), THEN you meet the wall of invincible (and willful) ignorance. Real theological differences are dismissed as minor points of opinion. Let’s just say that sort of dismissal isn’t extended to Episcopalians (busy ordaining trees and dogs at this point) and Muslims. This combination of equalization and willful ignorance is yet another form of the last acceptable prejudice.

  29. Scott W. says:

    Let’s just say that sort of dismissal isn’t extended to Episcopalians (busy ordaining trees and dogs at this point)

    Hey that’s unfair! We all know they are ordaining empty coke bottles.

  30. Sandy says:

    Hard to believe that someone can be so deluded, all the way to the death bed. The Lord never stops sending us grace, so it apparently was refused (as far as we know).

  31. robtbrown says:

    Janine Denomme, a committed Catholic who put her faith on the line at the end of her life by challenging the Church’s ban on ordaining women, died May 17 at her home in Edgewater. The cause was cancer, according to her partner, Hon. Judge Nancy Katz.

    Denomme, 45, was director of youth programs for the Center on Halsted and an active Catholic who served as a lay preacher, church musician, parish council member, spiritual director and religion teacher. In 2007, she learned about Roman Catholic Women Priests ( RCWP ) which, despite the official ban, has ordained over 100 women worldwide. She was ordained in April of this year.
    Comment by j

    When she was ordained, she became a member of the Missionary Sisters of Lesbos.

  32. TJerome says:

    A “committed Catholic?” She may have had many wonderful qualities, but being a committed Catholic was not one of them. To be a committed Catholic, one has to walk the walk, not just talk the talk. I find it fascinating that many folks want the Church to change to accommodate their issues (pathologies) rather than the other way around.

  33. The Egyptian says:

    I can’t believe no one has picked up on this yet, “fruits” good descriptive Father Z

  34. Jenny says:

    As an old priest I used to know once said, a horse has a better chance of being ordained a priest than a woman does.

    Really? Is that necessary? A horse has zero chances of being ordained, same as women. To imply that if God had decided to extend the grace of ordination to others aside from men (which He didn’t), he would choose horses above women is pretty insulting.

  35. SimonDodd says:

    Suburbanbanshee: “Certainly, let’s pray for the poor deluded woman.” Alas, she has plenty of company. Look at that outfit’s website; it really does make one wonder what can be done and why it isn’t being done.

  36. LouiseA says:

    Pray for her soul, just in case she made it to Purgatory somehow by the infinite Mercy of God. Poor misguided woman was only 45 years old – her entire Catholic life was spent under modern influences, and so perhaps God found a way to excuse some of her craziness due to poor catechesis. Or maybe somehow Our Lady was able to obtain the salvation of this woman’s soul (despite all outward appearances)… maybe this woman had made the 5 First Saturdays in her more innocent youth, or something. Pray.

  37. @Jenny: insulting to horses or to women?

    Seriously, you are missing the point of the priest’s remark, which was to underscore, beyond any shadow of a doubt, for those members of his audience who may have had doubts, that the ordination of women is an absolute impossibility.

  38. K. Marie says:

    @Sean: Did this old priest happen to come from Kansas? The priest at the parish where I was confirmed said that exact thing while giving a talk to our class the sunday before our confirmation.

  39. Supertradmum says:

    I think we have a duty to pray for this sad person and the nun who allowed the abortion. We do not want anyone to go to Hell, and maybe our collective prayers here will be heard by the Almighty and Merciful One. The sadness extends to the bad example these women have given others in and out of the Church.

  40. AnAmericanMother says:

    upstate,

    When did the Piskies ordain trees and/or dogs?

    Just curious, I used to be one so I keep an eye on them (the way you keep an eye on a bad train wreck) but had not heard that.

    I had heard of a church that actually allowed dogs into the sanctuary for a blessing on St. Francis’s feast day (the outdoor chapel isn’t good enough?) but they did not communicate, nor were they ordained.

    I’ve heard of some of the Episcopal clerics sidelining as Muslims and Wiccans . . . .

    I mean, sure they’re heretics and crazier than a hemp-smoking Albigensian, but trees? dogs?

  41. Seraphic Spouse says:

    I don’t like the “A horse has more of a chance than a woman…” line either.
    It’s demeaning and untrue. It is a fact that women cannot be ordained to the priesthood, but it
    is a sensitive issue for many, and there is no point making it sound like horses
    are fitter representatives of our Lord than women are. In fact, it verges on
    blasphemous. Women are, at any rate, made in the image and likeness of God. Horses are not.

    Sadly, well-meaning priests often err when they try to lighten up a serious issue
    with comments like these. Again, it’s a sensitive issue, and it has to be explained
    with sensitivity. Otherwise you’re going to get women thinking that misogyny is at the
    heart of it, and then more sad souls rushing off to heretical sects to get themselves
    “ordained.”

  42. Juergensen says:

    When will the Archdiocese of Chicago say that politicians automatically separate themselves from the Church when they support the very real, not simulated, practice of abortion?

  43. Gail F says:

    People seem to have no problem with being blunt about their opinions of this woman, so I’ll be blunt about the horse comment: What a stupid thing to say. As a woman, let me tell you it will win over no female hearts and minds. It will, however, get the speaker (even if it is a priest) compared to some parts of a horse’s anatomy. And rightly so.

    As far as the subject of this post, how terribly sad. These women are targets of wrath and derision, but they are ALIVE and can still change their minds and their tune. Not Janine Denomme. Her time is up. I heard a priest on a Catholic radio station say that arguments and documents won’t work with these women, all that can help is prayer and fasting. He might be right.

    Of course she can’t be given a Catholic burial. The fact that other people shouldn’t, but are, doesn’t change that.

  44. Scott W. says:

    I’ve heard of some of the Episcopal clerics sidelining as Muslims and Wiccans . . . .

    I mean, sure they’re heretics and crazier than a hemp-smoking Albigensian, but trees? dogs?

    He’s exaggerating for comic effect. (At least it is exaggerating at this point in time.) Basically saying that the Episcopal’s complete lack of descrimination in who they ordain means that logically there is nothing stopping them from ordaining anything. But since I’m not Episcopalian, I’ll let guys like Chris Johnson poke richly-deserved fun at their leadership.

  45. Katie says:

    ‘Last rites’ does not cover up the Kennedy funeral scandal and the public scandal of a professed Catholic working for abortion etc. Card O’Malley can’t possibly have known (we hope) the content of the Senator’s confession unless he heard it himself. Nor could he have asked ‘everything OK Father?’ and have expected a wink in reply.
    It doesn’t do any good to be rude about women especially since they are the ones who have to give birth to future priests. Jokes about horses and women priests and lady preachers and dogs walking on their hind legs etc reflect badly on the immature boys who repeat them. Pray the rosary for a better idea of women and let’s also pray for more vocations for habited nuns..

  46. Random Friar says:

    There may also have been more than a slight complication at the funeral Mass. I don’t know the prayers in the EF, but these are the central prayers for a funeral Mass for a priest:

    Collect:
    “Lord, you gave your servant N. your minister and priest the privilege of a holy ministry in this world. May he rejoice for ever in the glory of your kingdom…”

    Prayer over Gifts:
    “All powerful God, by this eucharist may N. your servant and priest rejoice forever in the vision of the mysteries which he faithfully ministered here on earth…”

    Prayer after Communion:
    “God of mercy, we who receive the sacraments of salvation pray for N. your servant and priest. You made him a minister of your mysteries on earth…”

    Would her friends, partner and family have insisted on these? Perhaps. But in no way could the Church have agreed to this, especially if she did not publicly repent of her actions. And if the family agreed NOT to have these prayers? There is still always the danger of using her funeral as a platform for her views (yet another reason not to do eulogies). There would be a dissonance between what she professed and believed in life (along with those who supported her) and what the funeral Mass publicly states. Yes, we tend to the side of mercy on funerals, but it seems prudent to me not to extend that in this case, for it would be a contradiction of her beliefs and that of the Church.

  47. Juergensen says:

    “‘Last rites’ does not cover up the Kennedy funeral scandal and the public scandal of a professed Catholic working for abortion. Card O’Malley can’t possibly have known (we hope) the content of the Senator’s confession unless he heard it himself.” – Spot on, Katie. More, even if Kennedy did make a final Confession, there is no reason to presuppose that he confessed the sin of abortion. After all, we know that in his mind he did not consider his support of abortion a sin. So why would he have confessed it?

  48. AnAmericanMother says:

    Scott,

    All kidding aside, the problem (as Chris Johnson himself has formulated in Johnson’s Law) is that you can’t parody the Episcopalians because they will do something worse before you can get the parody published. As one of Kipling’s characters said, “Curse Nature! She gets ahead of you every time!”

    Katie,

    The problem is women are too darned SENSITIVE. Everybody is going about taking offense at silly things. At some point everybody will be offended about everything, and then hopefully we can all relax.

    It’s the first time I’ve heard Sam Johnson described as an “immature boy”. This is the sort of silliness into which ultra-feminist sensibilities leads one.

  49. Katie says:

    I’m not sensitive, nor ultra-feminist, promise. I’m just bored with silly and yes immature ontological jokes about women whenever the (closed) question of women’s ordination comes up. The attempted jokes are just not funny. The latest one in England was a well publicised daft remark that it would be OK to ordain a male thief but not a woman. The priest who used this illustration thought he was being witty but it’s the wit of a grade school kid who has learned a bit of rudimentary logic. I guess it depends what you want to do: do you want to help people understand why the Church cannot ordain women, or do you just want to provide fodder for journalists.
    Priesthood is a serious matter, at least it ought to be. Or am I being sensitive?

  50. Bornacatholic says:

    To imply that if God had decided to extend the grace of ordination to others aside from men (which He didn’t), he would choose horses above women is pretty insulting.

    It depends on which women you are talking about.

    Clearly, this horse…http://brilliantexpressions.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/1a-22.jpg (the one on the right) is more pleasing to the eye than SCOTUS, Ruth Bader Ginsburg…http://www.myptsmail.com/hotdog256/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/superme-courst-justiceruth-bader-ginsburg-photo.jpg

    I’ll grant you that R Bad Gin is smarter than the most horses but I’d say there is a tie when it comes to the question of which – the horse or R Bad Gin – more closely adheres to The Constitution

  51. Bornacatholic says:

    Jokes about horses and women priests and lady preachers and dogs walking on their hind legs etc reflect badly on the immature boys who repeat them.

    Being a female scold is infinitely worse than being a man who jokes about heretics and apostates. While this woman was alive the absolute worst thing one could have done to her was to take her seriously.

    One of the lamentable features of modernity is scolds telling men how to act like men. (As if a female scold knows how a man should act).

    In better days, women appreciated men acting like men.

    If you think Samuel Johnson is bad, do not ever read Hilaire Belloc.

  52. AnAmericanMother says:

    Oh, my goodness, I love Belloc.

    His Bad Child’s Book of Beasts and More Beasts for Worse Children were required reading at our house when the kids were very small. My children for years could recite verbatim “Matilda, Who Told Lies and Was Burned to Death”, or “Jim, Who Disobeyed His Nurse and Was Eaten by a Lion”.

    There’s ample material there for anyone who feels like feeling offended to work up a real snit. . . . he is certainly an equal opportunity satirist.

    I think we could call Johnson irascible, annoying, dogmatic, stubborn, probably a sufferer from de la Tourette’s, but never, never immature. Some of his Prayers are among the most beautiful and heartfelt I have ever read.

  53. AnAmericanMother says:

    I think that my Thoroughbred has a much more pleasing expression than the little Paint mare. I can testify that she is bold but wise, even-tempered, and good with kids.

    Gracie

    But she’s female, so no dice! (the Paint is female too.)

  54. @Seraphic Spouse (and the rest): womyn who are sensitive about the all-mail priesthood are going to play the misogyny card no matter how sensitive you try to be toward their sensitive feelings. These are the kind of womyn would (and did) scold no less a person than Pope John Paul II about it. So you may as well be blunt.

    Ha ha, yeah, perhaps they should all get some Belloc in their stockings at Christmas (or would they prefer Winter Solstyce?).

  55. Katie says:

    Guess we must have hit a nerve, ladies. The lads are making no sense.Or are they being vulgar? It’s difficult to tell. Let’s try this again, once more, slowly: the point is not misogyny, sensitivity, feminism and all that silly stuff. The objection is this. The church’s teaching about ordination does NOT have as its main objective the mockery or insulting of women, horses or dogs. Then why insist on turning church teaching into silly jokes? Perhaps your grasp of said teaching leaves something to be desired? Please don’t hide behind the erudition of Johnson: he was a Protestant. Could one not say that this shows a certain immaturity?

  56. mpm says:

    “the all-mail priesthood”

    Those splendid knights in shining armor!
    ;>

  57. Egads, a spelling error! Apologies.

  58. Bornacatholic says:

    Guess we must have hit a nerve, ladies. The lads are making no sense

    LOL.

    In case you haven’t noticed, you public scolds are, more and more, having less and less affect.

    Now, I am not sure who it was who told you that your idea of what constitutes acceptable male behavior is universally normative (I suspect it was the malign influence of feminism in the Academy) but because you did not receive the response you expected, you concluded you were right and so you intensifed your scorn by calling men lads.

    It is a shame some of you females were not taught to respect males and the Divinely Constituted differences twixt the sexes.

    Your attitude and behavior reflects badly upon women of your type.

    But you are not humble enough to even hear that criticism; say nothing about stopping to take the time and think about it.

    Thanks be to God, most Catholic women have repudiated feminism and all of its fetid fetishes.

    Good Luck, Sister. You are going to need it in the burgeoning return to traditionalism in all categories; Mass, Theology; and Males and Females.

    (BTW, “hitting a nerve” does not mean you were right. It could, and did for me, simply mean your behavior was- and continues to be – irritating)

    Good Bye.

  59. AnAmericanMother says:

    Speak for yourself, Katie. I’m with “the lads” on this one.

    If it came to a contest between Sam and yourself, it would be no contest. And calling him a Protestant simply begs the question: he was a highly orthodox Anglican who (like quite a number of present-day Anglicans) was more Catholic than modernist Catholics today. In fact, his ideas concerning women were rather advanced for his day and fairly much in line with Catholic doctrine.

    And his erudition is not the subject at hand (although it was substantial). He was a good man, and a wise one. And not – as you asserted – immature.

  60. spock says:

    To be consistent she probably deserves a spot right next to senator Kennedy.

    May they rest in peace.

  61. catholicmidwest says:

    Jenny,

    Not at all. It’s a true statement to say that a horse has as much chance of being ordained as a woman. Grace has nothing to do with it. The priesthood is not part of the female human identity any more than it’s part of the nature of a horse.

    Men who would like to be human mothers are as likely to attain that status as rocks. How about that? Also a true statement. Men are not rocks, however human motherhood is as impossible for them as it is for rocks. It’s constitutionally not part of their nature, all scientific monkeying around included.

  62. catholicmidwest says:

    Good gravy. Touchy, touchy, touchy. It’s not sensitivity, because that requires some discernment at least. It’s just touchy PC prickliness. He didn’t call you a horse, lady. Get over it.

  63. SPQRatae says:

    Such a lack of charity in some comments!
    This is desperately, desperately sad. I’m sure the Church was utterly distraught at being unable to give a Christian burial to a misguided soul because she removed herself from the care of the Church, and died before having the chance to repent.
    Have you ever seen a shepherd who was pleased, or gloated, that one of his sheep had strayed and died?
    We should all pray for this woman, and of course for the Church, which must bear the terrible burden of being unable to save every soul.

  64. AnAmericanMother says:

    You’re quite right of course. But it’s an understandable irritation with women of her stripe.

    A shepherd would not be pleased, or gloat, if an obnoxious ewe — that bleated loudly at all hours of the day and night, that persistently tried to steal his cloak and staff and trample on them, that harassed and injured other members of his flock and led them astray — managed to wander off and disappear. Of course he would be sorry to lose even one sheep out of the “ninety and nine”.

    But he would also, I imagine, be somewhat relieved. For the sake of the other 99 sheep.