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Fr. Z.: I’m trying to reconcile an apparent discrepancy and I’d appreciate your thoughts. On the one hand, we Catholics believe that the sacred liturgy, of which the Eucharist is the greatest element, is the source and summit of the Church’s life and activity; more than the Church makes the Eucharist, the Eucharist makes the Church. We believe that the sacraments are the principal channels of sanctifying grace, extensions as it were of the Incarnation and encounters with the risen Lord. Christian life and mission are, for us, virtually inconceivable apart from the presence of Christ in Word and Sacrament, most especially His substantial presence in the Eucharist. On the other hand, as Michael Voris notes in this Vortex, evangelical Protestants often put Catholics (as well as mainline/oldline Protestants) to shame when it comes to zeal for making Christ known and loved, even though they lack the fullness of revealed truth. They evidence true Christian witness (to the degree that their doctrine accords with historic Christian orthodoxy), yet they are lack that which is the “source and summit” of the Christian life: the sacred liturgy, Christ sanctifying His bride through the sacraments. The sovereign God is free to bestow His grace and holiness apart from the sacraments, of course, as He evidently does in the case of these fruitful, though objectively heretical, Christian bodies. For this reason I am sometimes tempted to think that “fons et culmens” might be overstating the matter. I have a few ideas for reconciling the apparent contradiction (e.g., the power of the Eucharist flows beyond the Church’s visible bounds in ways known only to God), but I’d like to pick your brain. If you don’t mind, that is.
I too observe this as M. Voris notes and as Fr. Thomas describes above. In my experience and from observations and sharing with friends who are Protestant and on fire with Christian charity, one palpable unfortunate difference has come to rest at the sort of encouragement and formation (both, and it takes serious discernment as well) at the community level. Unfortunately in some places the lack of encouragement is not merely a lack or vacuum but due to myriad competing interests warps into active discouragement and pressure. In general a certain type of political organizing takes up space in some parishes that is only interested in its own political organizing and not the salvation Voris speaks of, and this is encouragement and social support network for some chosen few. It does not however work both ways by and large because conservatives do not by and large use the same tactics, albeit may be just as passionate (Fr. Z has mentioned this and others here have referenced this phenomenon as well as other observers of the political scene). But when it comes to salvation first and encouraging each other in zeal Protestants are at this moment in history in a different place and we should not pretend that it is otherwise. At the same time there are a great many coming into the Church who whether baptized Catholic or not somehow bought one or another myth or calumny about the Church or Catholics and realized the truth and for this we should be thankful as they are a great light to many.
I posted the first video about a week ago on my Facebook. I thought it was hilarious. “Vatican II was about being kind and nice and not offending Jews and atheists.” No one else seemed to find it as funny as I did, though. Wonder why.
Enjoyed the first video. The second less so.
I’m not sure this will get thru and be posted. I’ll try to keep my tone civil.
The Protestants don’t have to drag around the MSM, abuse scandal, catholic politician scandal, lack of leadership on some (not all) church hierarchy.
Well I am not shy about my Catholicism. And I will mention one vehicle we have in my town and that is through the 40 Days for Life campaigns. It is an ecumenical prayer endeavor but when Protestants see fervent CAtholics with their rosaries who are not apologetic about their faith, they first come to respect them and what we have happening now is that, especially once they pick up the rosary, some are in RCIA. And also we are blessed with holy priests who also are not shy about preaching the Truth…because the truth is not just something but is Somebody: Jesus Christ.
We do not need to apologize to anyone for our faith. We live it, we speak it, and we show it.
Look at Tim Tebow, a fervent Protestant and all the talk he is generating. Let every Catholic be that fervent and this society would change for the better.
Michael Voris is right on the money when he says that so much of official Catholic evangelization is bound up with committees and so on. St. Dominic and St. Francis went and preached the Gospel with the Church’s blessing. Neither of them really had any money to begin with. Neither of them had bags and bags of pamphlets or leaflets to do God’s work. They just went out and converted the heretics of their day to Catholicism and founded Orders that have continued to perpetuate their work to this very day.
I think that what a lot of people tend to forget about evangelization is that it is a person to person thing. It is not bound up with committees or anything like that. Rather, it is one person talking to another about Christ and the Church. It’s a simple conversation and nothing more than that.
I personally was converted to Catholicism through the conversations that I had with a retired Jesuit priest named Fr. Harrington. He and I would sit for hours in the visitor’s parlor in the Jesuit community where he lived. We would talk about everything under the sun, but he would always re-direct the conversation back to Christ and the Church. Maybe, that’s what we need to do because it’s the only way to reach others where they are.
I’ve been to a Michael Voris talk, and while I find him to be a compelling speaker, I believe he has, in a sense, captured a kind of ugly protestantism and tried to make it Catholic.
I believe that Catholicism has its own way of evangelization, and it is patently not by pointing to others as heretics. It is by 1. realizing that your every moment of contact with others is, or should be, a moment of their grading the value of Catholicism as a way of life( i.e. you need only to make it clear to others that you are Catholic and then act like you are Catholic), 2. Consistantly pray for the people you plan to “evangelize” and trust the Holy Spirit to do the heavy lifting (you don’t need a soap box, so relax and be yourself) 3, be ready by being INFORMED when the questions come.
This is my tried and true method. I work in a rough and ready all male environment, and these guys would laugh at, or abuse Michael Voris (or worse). My technique is to be a friend to people, DO NOT “evangelize” or get in people’s face. Instead, I pray constantly for them, make it known that I am a devout catholic. Live the life I profess. In this I have seen great strides with my co-workers: men have gone back (with their families) to Church, men have broken addiction and come to me asking for prayers. In short – be a friend, attract, don’t repel, be consistant, and pray…the Lord will do the rest. Remember always how messed up our world is and how being non-messed-up stands out profoundly. A buddy always says to me “For some reason, the sun always shines on Floydo”. Just let the Lord work through you, it’s easy!
I look at Voris’s video as more of trying to motivate Catholics to be more zealous in their evangelization, even if he has the wrong idea.
First, there are plenty of Catholics with zeal for the faith and the zeal to evangelize and who zealously do evangelize each day. Second, there are plenty of Protestants who have no zeal for their faith at all and don’t really care about evangelization. Regarding these two points, I think Voris has simply bought into a false social conception (pushed mostly by Protestants) that Protestants care more about the Lord and their faith than Catholics, which simply isn’t true. I think in reality, many people who convert to Protestantism do so because they don’t really care about evangelizing. They want something that is convenient and makes them feel good about themselves, they’re not particularly concerned about converting others. Both Catholicism and Protestantism probably have average populations of adherents in which a large majority is content to practice the faith without vigorously attempting to convert others while a small, vocal minority does attempt to evangelize. Voris just makes the decision to ignore the Catholic minority doing this and focus on the Protestant minority (for whatever strange reason), or he simply is ignorant of the Catholic minority (hard to make that case since he seems to be in it).
Third, and I think this bears more emphasis, is that Protestantism is different from Catholicism (shocking idea, I know). And while Voris claims to know the difference, it seems that maybe he doesn’t know it as well as he might think. Protestantism and Catholicism aren’t just merely different, they’re very different. And that difference seems to be that Catholicism is broader, more substantive, more traditional, and much more complicated than any strain of Protestantism except perhaps high Anglicanism (and how many of them are converting others? More likely they are doing the converting themselves, over to Catholicism). It’s more effective for evangelical Protestants to proselytize the way they do because their denominations are simpler and much easier to grasp. They don’t ask much – confess Jesus as your personal savior, get baptized, believe in the Trinity, and bring your Bible to church when you want to. And that’s only the more “conservative” denominations like Baptists. Non-denominational Protestants may ask even less.
Converting someone to Catholicism is a whole different story. Converts need to understand the Mass, the Sacraments, Tradition, the Magisterium, and then other traditions and customs that many Catholics hold dear. And not only intellectual assent, but to convert someone to Catholicism, that person has to really change their attitude to one of trust in the Church, while most non-Catholics possess an inherent distrust towards the Magisterium. This is a very difficult thing to do and it takes more than just brute proselytizing to do. Converting others to Catholicism is different from converting others to Protestantism because you’re converting them to a deeper, and hopefully more lasting, and certainly a more truthful faith. And that requires a different and more subtle approach than evangelical Protestants tend to use.
Many of those Protestants attempting to convert a billion souls are undoubtedly the same types of people who stand in the squares and quads at colleges around the country and yell at passing students condemning them to hell for drinking alcohol and living a life of sin. Instead of converts, they only get ridicule. Charity and demonstration of how rich Catholicism can be are better tools for conversion. Catholics would do well to not worry about Mr. Voris’s thoughts on the matter and instead remember to preach the Gospel at all times and when necessary use words.
Not a fan of Michael Voris
That is one of the funnier xtranormal videos I have seen.
Nola Catholic is right that it is far more complex to bring people to Catholicism, because it consists of entering a real Church with doctrinal and moral teaching with a real form and structure that people have to be really and profoundly integrated as a part of, and not just a notional assent to Jesus as savior, baptism and optional participation in prayer meetings like in Protestantism. If you have ever tried to explain to a non Christian from another culture what is the difference between Catholicism and Protestantism and why be Catholic rather than Protestant, while trying to remain focused on above all introducing them to Jesus who is God, you know the challenge is steep.
I think something like Fr Barron’s “Catholicism” program is one of the most valuable things, because he’s presenting Christianity in its fullness and richness, with beauty and intelligence. People are not going to wrap their mind all around Catholicism at first but I think someone might get something of the true flavor of it. But that is dependent on the orthodoxy and authenticity of the presentation of it. Our authentically Catholic lives might give others an experience of that true flavor, our words if we are well catechized, our works of mercy done with profound and explicit Catholic identity, our art and cultural contributions if they are beautiful, our family life and its joy and witness of love, our professional life and work and everyday virtue.
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“Catholics would do well to not worry about Mr. Voris’s thoughts on the matter and instead remember to preach the Gospel at all times and when necessary use words.”
—And—
“Not a fan of Michael Voris”
Michael has heard from countless people that their lives have changed, that they have returned to the Catholic Faith or begun to explore it. It’s a daily occurrence.
I’m willing to bet that Fr. Z could make the exact same claim, although no one would ever confuse Fr. Z with Michael Voris.
And the “preach the Gospel at all times and when necessary use words” crowd can make similar claims. So can the followers of Fr. Corapi. Even those who give us the John 3:16 signs in the football end zones have conversion stories to share. Some people respond to the fear of Hell. Others respond to more gentle approaches.
The number of ways to draw souls to Christ and His Church are too many to count. What needs to be remembered is that if any one of these successful approaches were rejected out of hand, then their success stories go with them. MAYBE these same souls would convert in response to some other presentation, but why criticize what works AT ALL?
So “not a fan of Michael Voris,” Good for you! You found the Catholic Church through some other effective method of evangelization (in cooperation with grace). And “preach the Gospel at all times and when necessary use words,” Good for you, too! That method has won many souls to Christ and His Church.
The Voris video was about the need for zeal in Catholic evangelization, not the need to adopt Protestant methods, or even the need to adopt Voris’ own methods. Nothing worthwhile is contributed to this discussion by criticizing any particular messenger’s style. There are EWTN personalities whom *I* don’t respond to as well or enthusiastically as some others do. Is it necessary for me to post that anywhere? They are doing good work for the Church and for souls. They are certainly doing more than *I* can claim to be doing!
The absence of zeal within Catholic evangelization ON THE WHOLE is a valid observation. Why does it have to bother anyone that VORIS made this point?
@Terry
“The absence of zeal within Catholic evangelization ON THE WHOLE is a valid observation. ”
Forget zeal, I was told in my Catholic school in the 80s, in one of my daily “catechism” classes, that “we Catholics” should no longer evangelize, nor refer to protestants as “protestants” – cause “that would hurt them”. The sad part is that these are among the few things that I actually remember from those classes (probably cause they dint sound right to me then), apart from the fact that years later I learnt that one of the altar boys in my class, who assisted in innumerable masses at school, was and is protestant (I am not making any of these things up). It took some unexplainable and really heavy duty actual grace to get my completely secularized soul back into the Church.
Some souls only need a gentle nudge, a St Therese, to be evangelized, while others need a hammer of heretics, a St Robert Cardinal Bellarmine.
for what its worth, I am a big fan of Mr Voris – because (and until) he speaks the truth.
The Protestants are probably not exaggerating their convert counts. They are merely counting a different phenomenon than Catholics do when reporting converts. For example, Protestant missionaries in one organization I am familiar with will go to a foreign city for two or three weeks, share about Christ, lead someone in a prayer to “accept Christ,” and count that as a conversion. Since “Once saved, always saved” is their belief, this makes sense within their worldview. (How many stick with it is another question).
The Foursquare Church teaches “Once saved, always saved.” I noticed Jack Hayford, the well-known Foursquare pastor, prominently featured on the Vortex video. I have met Jack Hayford, observed his ministry, and visited his church several times; he is kind, intelligent, courteous, and generous…a far cry from the comment above that “Many of those Protestants attempting to convert a billion souls are undoubtedly the same types of people who stand in the squares and quads at colleges around the country and yell at passing students condemning them to hell for drinking alcohol and living a life of sin.” What is that comment based on? Seems rash to me…. If the pastors at that conference are the same caliber as Jack Hayford, they are a class act. Off on their theology, yes. Full of God’s love, yes. Which is more important? (1 Cor. 13)
I would be more enthusiastic about evangelizing if we had more parishes in my town that were not “pastored” by heretics. Not to mention the goofy music at many of the Masses…in one parish they regularly sing the chorus to “Jeremiah was a Bullfrog.” Have they ever looked at the lyrics for the rest of that song? Not at all edifying. It’s embarrassing to be Catholic in my part of the country. Many Protestants have a better grasp of theology than many of the priests and deacons here.
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Charity starts with giving worship to God as God wants it. Only after this comes thy neighbor.
No matter the zeal, or statistical efficiency, if charity towards thy neighbor does not come from charity towards God, it is fake.
Do not be fooled.
ps.: If zeal returns in our Catholic worship, zeal will return in evangelizing.
It’s fine if people aren’t “fans” of this one or that one, I am not a “fan” but still am able to listen to what he has to say…And what about it, how would the way he describes be a good way of evangelizing others and has it worked, that’s the question. He is not saying Protestants are actually evangelizing 2 Billion souls, as was the stated claim, or saying as another commenter points out that their approach is good and superior for whatever reason. But he is saying there is a zeal, he notices it and not just he notices it but countless people whom he has met are saying the same thing. You don’t have to like him, I don’t think that is why Fr. Z posted the video to encourage you to be a “fan”. But why is it that the committee based evangelization method hasn’t worked whereas there is a great zeal to be found elsewhere. Whether we like Voris or not is irrelevant to this question.
Terry C. well said. There has to be many approaches to evangelize with all the different philosophies that are floating around in our heads. I sometimes fall into a bad habit of thinking that if my idea of evangelization is good then the others must be less good or even not good. For years I have had a zeal for the Latin Mass only to get the standard mockery from my own family. Yikes. It is only now that some of them are starting to ‘get it’. I pray much and try to stay charitable. Peace.
Here’s another video, not for the faint of heart.
Reason #42 why the literal translation seems to beat dynamic equivalence every time…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IUQcCvX2MKk
“Glittering jewel of …” protestant zeal seems to be the relief of community and sense of belonging offered on a local level to lost souls. This relief happens in the fellowship hall or social center where its warm, there’s food, the kids are amusing themselves, where everyone of course is welcomed to the service upstairs in half an hour, where the walls won’t collapse, where the altar is located for consideration, also the banners, music teams, and comfort of caring social distractions pew to pew. Birds of a feather flocking together.
The mystery of faith for Catholics to describe is a challenge in a society that wants everything now. The variety of Catholic shelters, hospitals, food pantries, schools, charitable organizations, used to be orphanages, nursing homes, childcare, food /clothing drives, prison visitors, and on keep offering relief and give thanks for being able to do so, but it seems like conversion to Catholicsm has to be an attraction to the order, beauty and relief of the Truth found at Mass. An invitation to go to a Mass and leave life in the world outside the door, in the car or at home for the sake of your soul – then comes inspiration to be part of and defend something great at local level. Mr. VII in video is how to waste time and Gospel – no help sadly.
Fr. Kocik writes:
“evangelical Protestants often put Catholics (as well as mainline/oldline Protestants) to shame when it comes to zeal for making Christ known and loved, even though they lack the fullness of revealed truth”
Father, since Evangelical Protestants (EP) do not have the full truth can they really bring anyone to Christ who is Truth? Wouldn’t partial Truth/Christ be minimally adequate? If EV possess True Zeal, surely, they would be Catholics, no?
Protestant zeal manifests itself in community building as mentioned already. It uses the Gospels as a bait, as it were, and supplies less than the Truth. No?
Many of today’s Catholic parishes do the same. They have the Zeal but their RCIA programs teach a similar, Protestant version of Catholicism, especially as it concerns the nature of sacraments and obedience to the Magisterium. For example, most of us are aware of the statistic that at least 30 percent of the faithful do not believe in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Not just ordinary faithful, even some religious orders can be said not to subscribe to the full teachings of the Church.
One could go on and on. Suffice it to say, IMHO, not lack of Zeal but a lack of Faith is responsible for lack of Catholic zeal today.
Inigo, well said:
“If zeal returns in our Catholic worship, zeal will return in evangelizing.”
I have friends who were Protestant missionaries in the tropics; they now live in a small Appalachian town. They investigated Catholicism and were about to sign up for RCIA when they were sent a new priest. Without warning, when he first became pastor, he inflicted a rock band on the people at Mass. My friends ran the other way and never looked back. They have returned to Protestantism, where they are doing much good. Here’s an example of people with plenty of zeal for evangelism and works of charity, who were driven away by a Catholic clergyman. Let’s reform the clergy and how they celebrate Mass before we even think about evangelizing. In the meantime, I’m working on reforming myself.
Johnsum: You ask, “since Evangelical Protestants … do not have the full truth can they really bring anyone to Christ who is Truth?” Yes, they can. The fullness of revealed truth is Christ Himself. Those who hear the Gospel, accept it in faith and receive baptism are regenerated in Christ by the gift of the Holy Spirit; which is to say, they are Christians, adopted sons in the one Son, even if the community to which they belong is not in full communion with the Catholic Church. As these Christians grow in their love for Christ and in their knowledge of God’s revelation, they may someday be drawn to that life of intimate encounter with the Lord in the Eucharist, whether in the Catholic or perhaps in one of the Orthodox Churches. But even if that does not come to pass, they are living “in Christ” and are better off than those who do not know Christ at all. Put quite simply — and from the perspective of faith — I would rather be a Lutheran or even (gulp) a Pentecostal than a Hindu or animist.
Fr K- As the vast majority of Catholics are contracepting, there is a serious stumbling block to the Eucharist taking full effect in them and in our Church and world. It seems that until priests really start preaching the whole truth fearlessly, and probably for a while, we won’t see the zeal for souls. No Catholic who is living in a state of serious sin wants to go out into the world and preach salvation/repentance/heaven and hell. As only a couple percent of Catholics do not contracept, the Church needs to get its’ own house in order before we will see any major evangelizing by regular Catholics. Priests and any Catholics who are really trying to live their faith need to start doing penance for others, like St. Vianney. I hate to say it, but with the Church in the state that it is in, probably the most merciful thing God could do would be to allow us to undergo a serious persecution to find our faith again. Reform worship + fearless teaching + prayer and penance + a little trial under fire + grace = renew Catholicism.
I belong to several groups full of “Christians” of various Protestant flavors and a couple full of Catholics. If I didn’t believe the Church had the fullness of the faith, I’d jump ship in a heartbeat.
It’s not because of any particular apparent Christian zeal, or because of better help programs or kids ed — although they have all that, too. It’s because I’m pretty darned convinced 90% of the Evangelicals I meet want me to go to heaven. They may think I’m going to Hell, as a Catholic, but they want me in heaven. I’m not sure it even crosses the minds of most of my Catholic friends. Some, as individuals, sure. But the Catholic groups seem very concerned about connecting with other people who know what certain devotions are, or know where to buy a good First Communion dress.
This hasn’t always been the case. I’ve been members of groups that seem very intense. When they discuss the dress, it’s light too, but then there’s also introspection and discussion about whether it’s appropriate to have sleeveless, whether the kids understand the True Presence. But even if it’s 50/50, the feel I get is very cultural Catholic, very community Catholic, very social club Catholic — it’s not challenging like the Christian groups are. In the Christian groups, if someone is blowing it there is a tendency to call her on it. Gently, with love, and it’s still hard to do. But in the Catholic group, we tend to spend a lot of time “supporting” one another. It may be a class thing — the American middle class really likes to be supportive.
As for sending out missionaries to bring Catholicism to the world, my big hope for evangelization is that we’ll get more missionaries from Asia and Africa to reconvert American Catholics.
One other note — the Catholic groups are more likely to do something like making bracelets to sell as a fundraiser to support an organization. The Protestant groups are more likely to notice that one family is short that month and happen to show up on their doorstep with some extra firewood or dog food they happened to have. The way people behave, like it or not, influences how open people are to their religious beliefs. As an example, our priest tries now, but he seems weirded out by homeschooling. He missed turning up for several invites to our homeschool group, he embarrassed my kids a couple times with his questions. It wasn’t mean, just a little. . . In contrast, the Protestant pastor and his congregation turn over the whole church complex to the local group, letting little kids run around getting playdough on everything, and they visit and turn up in the auditorium when there’s a play, etc. It’s hard to evangelize people you don’t have any kind of a personal relationship with, and if you aren’t interested in them, why should they be interested in your church?
My favorite part of the first video (aside from the very idea of Larry King and Sarah Palin discussing Vatican II!) is when “Larry” says, “Vatican II means that the priest can’t preach on anything that makes me feel bad.” I think that encapsulates a great deal right there.
For all the studying that Mr. Voris did to earn his STB, he seemingly missed all the stuff in the Church’s tradition on what it means to be a “credible” witness. Has he read nothing on Newman, and how people “really assent” to doctrine? The Church’s tradition rightly says that people are not automatons, who simply take in facts, and then make an objective judgment about their truth or falsity. Yet, Michael Voris seems to think people think this way. Thus, he can confidently throw facts at people, and without restraint, disparage Protestants, and expect them to listen to what he’s saying. And if they don’t convert after he’s done speaking, then to hell with them (literally).
However, the Church doesn’t see people this way. Human beings are complex, and have their prejudices, their primary assumptions they use to analyze truth, their history, etc. All these factors go into the choice of whether to accept the truth of Christianity. If we’re to be EFFECTIVE witnesses of Christ, then we can’t simply sprout of the dogmas of the Church to people (not to deny that they are important). We must really show Christian love. We must show that we are sinners, who are nevertheless being changed through divine grace, and that Christianity really does bring us consolation. We also must show that our faith in Christ does really inspire us to work for justice in the world. It’s completely absurd to think that justice issues have no relevance what so ever to salvation, and that Christ simply came to preach divine truths, and people simply have to take in these facts to be saved (without having to put those truths into action). This is Christian Gnosticism-learn the secret truths, don’t change the heart. (I know this probably doesn’t define Voris’s interior life, but this is the essential message that comes across in his videos. “Learn the facts. Tell the facts to others. That’s Christianity. If you do that, you’re saved.”)
This is not the way of Christ. As Cardinal Newman rightly observed, the Apostles were not drawn to Christ initially, because of his doctrines. They were drawn to him because of his Person. And likewise, people were converted by them because they were drawn to the Christ they saw in them.
“What were the topics that made their preaching so effective?…They ‘preached Christ’; they called on men to believe, hope, and place their affections, in that Deliverer who had come and gone; and the moral instrument by which they persuaded them to do so, was a description of the life, character, mission, and power of that Deliver, a promise of His invisible Presence and Protection here, and of the Vision and Fruition of Him hereafter. From first to last to Christians, as to Abraham, He Himself is the centre and fullness of the dispensation. They, as Abraham, ‘see his day, and are glad.’”
I enjoyed the first video. As usual I have reservations about Voris’s presentation. When I take an honest look at all the Protestants and Catholics I know, neither seem more or less zealous than the other. Protestants have a reputation and I think many American Catholics put themselves down because of it. I know many very zealous Catholics; I have known whole communities of zealous Catholics. I know many Catholics who have brought others to the faith. Protestants work the way they do precisely because they are not a “church”. The Church operates the way it does precisely because it is a structured institution. As for the Church’s missionary activity it is quite alive. That doesn’t mean that it can’t be better, but it’s not in the gutter either. If Mr. Voris would like to see a good example of the New Evangelization, he should take a look a some of the lay movements that started before “New Evangelization” was coined. These movements have spread throughout the world in just a few decades and have done much good for the Church and the salvation of souls.
I like Michael Voris – he may be a little rough around the edges but at least he speaks the truth! What I do not like is when evangelicals (or anyone for that matter) resort to lying, manipulation, coersion, and humiliation. What is wrong with honest discourse about one’s objectives and timeframes? Perhaps a little TRUTH would result in a lot of buy-in toward achieving a greater goal.
To be honest, if there is to be a true “New Evangelization” there has to be a return to straightforward catechesis and faithful catechists. I admit, zeal is not lacking among the confused and confusing, and the world has become an open market and profitable appeal for their voices. Certain campaigns within the Church strike my simple mind as, well, somehow out of line with what Christ teaches. If Christ teaches that the poor will always be with us, then, is an anti-poverty campaign as opposed to helping the poor in their need, a rebuke against the proclamation given by Christ? If religious take a vow of poverty, doesn’t that indicate that the Church is pro-poverty? Perhaps I am making jabs, but we have been impaled on a host of experiences under the guise of the spirit of Vatican II while defiant against the authority of Vatican II, which, in their implementation have resulted in a disintegrated understanding of Catholic teaching as well as imposing upon the Church a demand that the pedagogy of the modern culture must be assimilated and integrated and declared right via theological manipulation. Whatever you may or may not like about Mr. Voris, he is spot on when he identifies that the salvation of souls has somehow been diminished in ranking and importance within the myriad of ministries, committees and advisory boards.
I love that first video — first discovered it a few weeks ago when I popped over to the next office to see what was making our parochial vicar laugh so hard. The creator of it has another video in which Sarah and Larry tackle the issues of Mass ad orientem, communion in the hand, and active participation. It contains the gem of a line ‘Rubrics are not Vatican II.’ As a member of the parish staff I’m enjoying finding opportunities to interject this at appropriate moments. ‘But Father! Rubrics are not Vatican II!’
I have met many people who have zeal for sin, deadly sin. This zealousness is based on the conviction that religion does not apply to anyone anymore. How do deal with the zeal of the damned, is a new challenge for those of us who actually care about evangelization. To have pagans tell me that all wars are based on religion, that religion only causes division and hatred, and that we should all be nice and “tolerant” of all types of activity.
Voris is correct about committees. I actually am doing more outside the Chanceries, the RCIAs, and the so-called Catholic schools by being a lone ranger evangelist. I pray everyday for how I am to love and spread the Gospel, as my job as a lay person is to be in the market place and be zealous.
The problem is that the Catholic institutions at the diocesan level there is a lack of conviction about the fact that the Catholic Faith is the One, True, Faith and that people are actually going to do to Hell (imagine, no universal salvation) if we do not speak to them about the Redemption of Christ and conversion.
I suggest praying to St. JoseMaria Escriva, who knew how to bring the Gospel out into the world with zeal.
(The first video is a story of my life trying to talk to those liberal and irrational egotists in the Catholic Church who merely want what they want when they want it–usually starting with contraception. Gave me a headache…)
sorry, second part of first paragraph last sentence is missing–..
is a new challengek for me in the street, and a daunting one, calling for great objectivity and love, real tough love.
How many of those so-called evangelical “conversions” have actually occurred in traditional Catholic countries like Mexico and Brazil? I’ll believe their zeal when I see them evangelizing wholesale in places like Saudi Arabia and Iran.
From a marketing perspective, animations and cartoons seem to be more powerful in conveying messages. And seem to elicit fewer personal attacks. At least this is my take on the two videos.
I received First Communion (BEFORE the Sacrament of Reconciliation, mind you) and Confirmation in the Diocese of Rochester in the 70s… and lived to tell about it.
I know how lame the Catholic hierarchy can be.
I also know how lame Protestants can be (I live in the “Bible Belt”) We just don’t hear about the lame ones.
The Church is ONE, holy, catholic and apostolic – so if there is a problem for one of us, there is a problem for all of us. We can’t splinter off into little groups, as much as Call to Action would like otherwise.
So we’re left with three choices: we can bail , we can stay around and complain and wait for someone to hold our hand and tell us what to do, or we can do something about it.
PERSONAL relationship with Christ is the only thing that gets anything done, anywhere . For a baptized Catholic, what does that personal relationship take? Among other things, frequent reception of communion, frequent participation in the sacrament of reconciliation, and lots of time spent conversing with our Lord and getting to know him better.
I’m not going to sit around waiting for some Diocesan policy wonk to give me the green light to go spread the good news. Yes, perhaps we’re spreading the good news in SPITE of some of our Church leaders, but so what? Sufferings to be offered up.
Jesus didn’t need a “schtick” and neither should we. If WE are Christ to others, the Holy Spirit will take care of the rest.
I have seen what ONE holy Pastor, what one holy catechist, what one holy neighbor, what one holy co-worker…can do.
So, while it is good to look at others and see where we might improve, sitting around and bemoaning all the opportunities the Church has squandered is doing us no good.
The 60s and 70s were a mess. We’re all paying for it now. I get it. Let’s get over it and move on.
The harvest is plentiful but the laborers are few. That’s nothing new. Let’s hop to it, people.