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“This blog is like a fusion of the Baroque ‘salon’ with its well-tuned harpsichord around which polite society gathered for entertainment and edification and, on the other hand, a Wild West “saloon” with its out-of-tune piano and swinging doors, where everyone has a gun and something to say. Nevertheless, we try to point our discussions back to what it is to be Catholic in this increasingly difficult age, to love God, and how to get to heaven.” – Fr. Z
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ROFL
Good one.
The pic doesn’t show here, but you can go to the original. It’s soooo true. Very clever.
This would be funny were it not so true. It makes one (me) really sad to know there are some prelates who despise (evidently) the Traditional Mass and those who seek it. Hopefully, Benedict XVI will put this matter to rest once and for all.
Bait and Switch, anyone?
In the 1980’s the Archdiocese of KC, under the pastoral genius of Abp Ignatius J Strecker, began a mass using the 1962 Missal. But the mass was never in the same parish or, for that matter, city. One week it would be in Topeka, the next in KC. Prof John Senior, under whom I studied at KU, finally threw up his hands and decided to go to the SSPX mass in St Mary’s.
It would seem that Abp Strecker of happy memory, knowing that he had an SSPX stronghold in the western part of his archdiocese, would put a regular mass in Topeka to siphon off those going to St Mary’s. But, no, that makes too much sense.
The good Archbishop was an interesting case. Anything but a huggy liberal type, he was a by the numbers Prussian who opted for liberal policies. Even during the McLiturgy, his movements were precise. A priest I know told me that the Abp told him, “Become a liberal. That’s what I did–it’s easier that way.”
Another priest told me of the Abp, a chain-smoker, breaking down and crying in his office because of the severe priest shortage in the area under his pastoral care. The irony is that there were vocations (many of Senior’s students became priests), but they were not interested in KC and went elsewhere, mainly (as his successor told me) Wichita and Lincoln. One is now a bishop, another worked 10 years in the Cong of Bishops in Rome, and a third became a seminary rector. And there were others who were ordained elsewhere because KC was a liberal diocese.
Paul Haley,
I am quite sad to say that it is very unlikely that this matter will be put to rest anytime soon, even with the forthcoming Motu Proprio. If/when this document finally comes out you can bet that there will be many from both camps who will pick over the Holy Father’s words and argue over what Pope Benedict “really means”, and then there will be many (even among the clergy) who will outright ignore it. A good number of bishops (my own not least among them, I am sure) will dive into any loopholes in the MP that they can find to get out of granting “wide and generous application” of the Old Rite, and you can be sure that schismatic groups like the SSPX will find countless ways to criticize this document.
– Jon in Ontario, Canada
You forget that saying indult masses will be allowed only to these priests, who passed 70 yrs and own a written consent to do this from both parents :-)
In the meantime something curious is taking place: usually there is a statement from the Pope followed by lots of comments from the media and elsewhere. This time the order is reversed and the comments are coming first. The Pope gets to read what people think about something he hasn’t even done yet.
I am quite sad to say that it is very unlikely that this matter will be put to rest anytime soon, even with the forthcoming Motu Proprio. If/when this document finally comes out you can bet that there will be many from both camps who will pick over the Holy Father’s words and argue over what Pope Benedict “really meansâ€, and then there will be many (even among the clergy) who will outright ignore it. A good number of bishops (my own not least among them, I am sure) will dive into any loopholes in the MP that they can find to get out of granting “wide and generous application†of the Old Rite, and you can be sure that schismatic groups like the SSPX will find countless ways to criticize this document.
– Jon in Ontario, Canada
If what I’ve been hearing about the document is true, use of the 1962 Missal will not depend on any bishop granting wide and generous application. The matter will simply be taken out of the hands of the local ordinary with Rome beginning to assert its liturgical authority.
Keep in mind that one aim of the Motu Proprio would be to assure the SSPX that Rome would protect the right to use the 1962 Missal–for everyone.
Andrew,
In the meantime something curious is taking place: usually there is a statement from the Pope followed by lots of comments from the media and elsewhere. This time the order is reversed and the comments are coming first. The Pope gets to read what people think about something he hasn’t even done yet.
I wonder if this doesn’t show the genius of a pope who knows how to actually get difficult things done. Certainly not all hearts and minds have been changed yet, and some never will be by the MP or anything else, but many of us are observing an enormous change in atmospherics already, with nothing tangible having yet appeared on paper.
Some things are already happening, and others are routinely expected, which would have been hard to imagine two years plus two weeks ago.
We’ve seen all too many papal promulgations dropped out there with zero hearts and minds changed as a result.
Now, it seems to me that the indispensable work of the putative motu proprio is being done by this process of discussion, laying the groundwork in advance of its appearance. I believe a sea change is occurring, and that its effects will continue even if no motu proprio ever appeared. (However, I do confidently predict that it will appear before 2010 when my supply of Dom Perignon 1996 may start to pass its peak.)
Henry–
Your “supply”?? No fair hogging it all–send some over here!
WILL MONDAY BE THE DAY??? I’ll be up and online early in the morning; I hope we’re not let down yet again…
I’d prefer May 5th but as long as its soon I’m happy!
I prefer May 5 as well as it is my daughter’s First Holy Communion! :)
Unfortunately, since there has been no announcement of a news conference or any kind of gathering, I doubt if Moday will be the day. Still have hopes for the 5th, though.
Umm, seeing as the 5th of May is a Saturday I do not really expect any kind of press release that day- I could be wrong though.
IMHO, it would be appropriate to sign (promulgate) the document on Apr 30th, and release it to the press on May 5th–both Pio V feast days.
Umm, seeing as the 5th of May is a Saturday I do not really expect any kind of press release that day- I could be wrong though.
Unless things have changed, the Vatican works a half day on Saturday.
I wrote to our bishop, and asked him, that in view of the upcoming M.P, could we plan for a Tridentine Mass in October for a special first Saturday event. He said ‘No’. He said it would be inappropriate since that Mass is not available at all in his diocese, something which he is considering, though. He said he hoped I could understand.
I didn’t bother to write back, but frankly, I don’t understand! What I do understand is why so many Catholics wind up going to the SSPX.
I think the bishops see the Motu Proprio as just creating “more work for mother!” They will have 500 people in a diocese of 400,000 screaming for the Tridentine rite, when they don’t have enough priests to cover the parishes that they have now, and the ones they have are stretched too thin as it is.
I just want it now. I have heard that it was going to be released now since december :-)
Father, check this out.
The priest in VA is basically saying his own novus ordo mass isn’t perfect at his own church and needs to be changed. And he wrote this in his church bulletin! But, he also says as a matter of fact that the MP is coming in the next two weeks. Do you think he knows something we don’t?
http://www.stjohncatholicmclean.org/church/bulletins/2007-04-29.pdf
Wait a second, I believe the parish priest, Fr. McAfee, is often on this site, no? Father M, what do you know!?!?
Gravitas, he says the MP will be issued “in the next week or so,” but later says he doesn’t know when it will be issued.
actually jordon, he says the pope will sign it in two weeks but doesn’t know when it will be made public. There’s a difference. Father, can you make a call to northern virginia and find out what’s up?!
“actually jordon, he says the pope will sign it in two weeks but doesn’t know when it will be made public.”
No, gravitas, he doesn’t say anything about “signing” the Motu Proprio. Rather, he says the Pope will “issue” it “within the next week or so.” Here is the relevant text:
“Within the next week or so, Pope Benedict will issue his long awaited motu proprio (a decree that is issued on his own initiative) regarding the older form of Mass that those of us who were around in the 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s or early 60s, remember well. . . . I do not know when the Pope will say his decree, I only know that he is going to issue it and those close to him in Rome say that his mind is made up and cannot be changed in the matter.”
That last comment about the Pope’s mind being made up is obviously a reference to Cardinal Kasper’s public statement that the decision the Pope has made (past tense) cannot be unmade. In other words, the Motu Proprio has already been signed. It only needs to be made public now. The priest in McLean, Virginia, says he doesn’t know anything that we don’t already know, and I believe him.
i don’t want to get hung up on this, but you need to really parse the words.
he’s saying he will issue it within the next week or so. That’s pretty specific. Then he says he does not know
when the Pope will “say” his decree.
Father Z, unless i’m wrong, this MP could have been “issued” months ago but not publicly “said.” So if Father McAfee
is saying it will be issued in the next week or so, i’m guessing phone calls are being made and he’s got something
concrete here.
“The next week or so” could be within a week, or within two weeks, or even within three weeks. That’s not specific at all.
Evidently it refers to the rumor that it would be issued either on April 30 or May 5.
Obviously “issue” and “say” are referring to the same thing: making the Motu Proprio public. If Cardinal Kasper is right, then it has already been signed. It hasn’t been issued, though, at least not to the Church at large. The priest in Virginia says he doesn’t know when the Pope will “say” the MP, but he knows that he is going to “issue” it, and says it will be “within the next week or so.” There’s just nothing in his words to give any reason that he knows something the rest of us don’t know. And anyway, why would this priest know the date but no one else — and why would he lie and say he doesn’t know the date if he really knows it? He says he doesn’t know when the MP will be issued. I believe him.
Ah, now HERE is some Motu Proprio rumor-mongering that is well worth reading!
http://www.creativeminorityreport.com/2007/05/motu-proprio-watch-breaking-news.html