I tip my biretta to MG who alerted me to the differences in the wonderful John XXIII cope used by His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI for the 1st Vespers ceremony the other day.
Here is the cope as worn by Pope Benedict.
Here is the cope worn by Pope Paul VI.
Notice anything different?
Keep in mind that Pope Paul was fairly tall, and Pope Benedict is not. Also, remember that the cope is generally help up by deacons when moving, so the length was not a problem for either Paul or Pope John.
Coat of Arms by D Burkart
Loading ...
A Daily Prayer for Priests
Nota bene: I do not answer these numbers or this Skype address. You won't get me "live". I check for messages regularly.
WDTPRS
020 8133 4535
651-447-6265
on POLL on a BURNING QUESTION REVISITED: The Plural of “Gin & Tonic” – Daily Rome (not) Shot – 506 – bonus video: “Sorry Father, wrong question. [No. It is exactly the right question.] In this situation, gin-and-tonic are attributive nouns; that is…”
on POLL on a BURNING QUESTION REVISITED: The Plural of “Gin & Tonic” – Daily Rome (not) Shot – 506 – bonus video: “My gut goes with “Gin and Tonics”. I couldn’t be wrong after saying it that way all these years, could…”
on POLL on a BURNING QUESTION REVISITED: The Plural of “Gin & Tonic” – Daily Rome (not) Shot – 506 – bonus video: “What about “Black and Tans?” Surely that’s closer to “Gin and Tonics” than “Runs Batted In,” whose likely descendant is…”
on POLL on a BURNING QUESTION REVISITED: The Plural of “Gin & Tonic” – Daily Rome (not) Shot – 506 – bonus video: “While @scaron has a point about Runs Batted In, the abbreviated form is RBIs, not RsBI. Thus, I conclude that…”
on POLL on a BURNING QUESTION REVISITED: The Plural of “Gin & Tonic” – Daily Rome (not) Shot – 506 – bonus video: “I appreciate that you are unafraid of the most vexing religious disputes of this age. Perhaps you’ll eventually move on…”
on ASK FATHER: Venial sins and the Novus Ordo: “Reading this post, I was struck with a sudden image: when, in the course of history, our Reverend Host shall…”
on POLL on a BURNING QUESTION REVISITED: The Plural of “Gin & Tonic” – Daily Rome (not) Shot – 506 – bonus video: ““Runs-Batted-In” – therefore “Gins-and-Tonic” [Ooooh… good one.]”
on Wherein Francis explains it all to Bono: “Dr. Brant Pitre did a presentation on the Jewish Roots of Holy Week where he said that Jewish tradition says…” on Archd. Washington DC, can. 915, Pelosi, transparency: “The modernist wing of the Church likes to talk about dialog, encounter, and accompaniment while practicing stonewalling.”
on Archd. Washington DC, can. 915, Pelosi, transparency: “Except for the, what, 14 or so bishops who publicly supported Abp. Cordileone, the remaining bishops, cardinals, archbishops, are willing…”
on Archd. Washington DC, can. 915, Pelosi, transparency: “Seems to me the de facto (material) schism in the Church has just taken a big step towards being de…”
on TC Repression in the Diocese of St. Augustine: “Exceedingly poor judgment on the outgoing bishop’s part—unnecessarily uncharitable. This will help the SSPX. It also knocks Jacksonville, Florida off…”
on TC Repression in the Diocese of St. Augustine: “Pray for the new bishop and give him the benefit of the doubt until he affirms this, but my thought…”
on TC Repression in the Diocese of St. Augustine: “I don’t know if the Mass first celebrated in St. Augustine was Tridentine or Mozarabic, but it wasn’t the OF.…” on Archd. Washington DC, can. 915, Pelosi, transparency: “Ezekiel 33:6-9. “But if the watchman see the sword coming upon the land, and he does not sound the trumpet……”
PLEASE subscribe via PayPal if it is useful.
That way I have steady income I can plan on, and you wind up regularly on my list of benefactors for whom I pray and for whom I periodically say Holy Mass.
In view of the rapidly changing challenges I now face, I would like to add more $10/month subscribers. Will you please help?
For a one time donation...
My "challenge coin" for my 25th anniversary of ordination in 2016.
Want one? I do exchanges with military and LEOs, etc.
Loading ...If you travel internationally, this is a super useful gizmo for your mobile internet data. I use one. If you get one through my link, I get data rewards.
Loading ...
They find you a pro-life agent in your area who commits to giving a portion of the fee to a pro-life group!
Help Monks in Wyoming (coffee – UPDATED LINK) and Norcia (beer) and the wonderful "Soap Sisters" of Summit, NJ!
Please follow me on Twitter!
Visits tracked by Statcounter
since Sat., 25 Nov. 2006:
Got to love those Italian tailors.
And thank goodness Pope Benedict XVI is not so short that the tailor had to remove the Stemma! Fr. Guy would have cried!!
–Guy (naw…. I’m the other Guy)
Aw, come on…why did they shorten it?
The cope when it was used by Paul VI was actually called a “papal mantle,” and I guess it was only used on more special occasions (that was at Vatican II when Paul VI was wearing it). I’m going to guess Don Guido wanted it shortened so it would just be a cope and so it could be used in more ordinary liturgical functions like Vespers, etc. According to the wikipedia, its use ended under (*gasp*) Paul VI after the post-VII reforms.
The other major difference between the two pictures is that Benedict doesn’t have a dour Cardinal Ottaviani standing next to him, which would definitely make his picture way cooler.
I think Paul VI and Benedict XVI are about the same height, the long papal mantle just made Paul VI look taller. I hope they just folded the hem inward rather than cutting off.
Actually, papal mantles are supposed to reach from 7 up to 10 feet in length,
so I was wondering why the cope worn by Pope Benedict XVI was, well, short
as a modern cope, even though it was John XXIII vintage.
It would have been nice to have seen him attended by two Cardinal Deacons,
but it was wonderful all the same!
From the pictures where the cope is held open for walking (e.g. http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii186/kjk76_96/BenedictXVIaa.jpg?t=1199313419 ), you can see that it was not folded in, but really cut off, a pity. However, in comment on Hallowedground (where this was originally discussed), latinmass1983 said: “Someone told me that it was Paul VI who shortened it to its current state, but still, there are other Manto’s in the Papal Sacristies waiting to be used.”
Well there are differences, but viewers ought note that Card Ottaviani, next to
Paul VI is not wearing an alb while he is wearing the deacon’s vestment. Why is
this so? Half dressed perhaps and you would not see that today. Also, paul VI
was not that tall either. I have stood next to Paul VI at an audience in the
vatican when he was alive and he was only about 5ft 9ins at the most, not much
taller than Benedict. But the old vestments are being brought out of
storage by Marini II since he took over in late october. The big change though
was the raised dais at Vespers last Sunday which is a throwback to Paul VI
time. So, this could now be a solid restoration which is good for St Peter’s
and ought be in regular use. Semper fidelis…
The cope was shortened by Paul VI. Ottaviani is wearing a rochet rather than an alb because the deacon and sub-deacon of honour in a Pontifical Mass from the Throne wear that in the old rite. In the New Rite equivalent they should wear albs like the first deacons. That said, if one goes to ‘Orbis Catholicus’ and sees pictures of some of the better Cardinals taking possession of their churches (ie. in the context of a full Pontifical Mass in the New Rite) their deacons of honour are wearing rochet as if it were the Old Rite. I must say… I am not complaining!
It has been observed many times on these blogs that the Deacons at the Throne
at a trad. Pontifical Mass, Papal or otherwise, do not wear an alb, but the dalmatic
directly over the surplice or rochet. To do otherwise is unrubrical.
What I always notice in these “close to the end” pictures from the early
60’s is how sad Cardinal Ottaviani looks. I never neglect an op-
portunity to say ‘Laudetur semper nomen eius a nobis omnibus’.